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Thread: Hypothesis - SC Wants Variation in War Fairness

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    Millennial Club TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Hypothesis - SC Wants Variation in War Fairness

    This is not intended as a "flame SC" thread, nor advocacy of anything in particular. It's just an idea I've been kicking around lately, as a possibility, have a foil hat ready.

    I was thinking about how Clash Royale seems to operate. And correct me if I'm wrong here, didn't like the game much so I deleted it, but there was no direct attempt to match based on deck strength for the regular game. You float up or down in trophies based on wins/losses alone, which makes you rise to a level where you often lose. And often, these losses are to someone who just has a better deck, or paid for that OP card that hasn't dropped for you yet.
    The wins are fun, the losses are MOTIVATING. Its the losses (against a better deck) that pressure you to gem, pressure you farm harder, basically get you more engaged.
    The random unfairness could also push players into the tournaments, some of which use different rules that enforce deck parity, and of course cost gems.
    The strategy failed for me, I felt the pressure to gem too strongly, deleted it when it started feeling like a "pay to win" game. But clearly its a successful game.

    Does SC apply the same thinking to clan wars? Thinking about how the player base at large differs from us in the forum here, SC might want substantial variations in clan war fairness. Sometimes you're the hammer, sometimes you're the nail. A group of kids, casuals that bounce between clans recruiting in global, friends and family clans that are tolerant of missed attacks? They need to see a win here and there to keep them engaged, hand them the hammer (beneficial match).
    The better clan will occasionally need to be the nail to motivate them to keep grinding heroes and teching up the TH. When you lose due to an inferno/eagle mismatch, that's pressure to drop them for yourself. This probably seems wrong to most in the war forum, permamax and engineers are overrepresented here, but its probably generally true for clash at large.

    Curious if this sounds ridiculous to others. I can't say I'm certain its true, but can't dismiss the possibility either.
    Level 10 Adult War Clan METAMUCIL.
    And some of us are old enough that its not just a funny word...
    Metamucil keeps the red out of our logs. Small wars, great record, low pressure.
    War Record - https://cocp.it/clan/82GJJV2J

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    Forum Superstar OnyxDS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TankSinatra View Post
    ....
    Does SC apply the same thinking to clan wars? Thinking about how the player base at large differs from us in the forum here, SC might want substantial variations in clan war fairness. Sometimes you're the hammer, sometimes you're the nail....
    But where's the incentive to gem? A clan of TH9s with big heroes who gem hero time to war get beaten up by a bunch of engineered TH11s who never had to spend a single gem and can afford to war with heroes down... I don't see where SC benefits there.
    TH9.5 | 1900+ war stars | Trophy record as TH9: 4579 (rank #4141, #67 in UK); as a 9.5: 5282
    XX: 5200+ | FF: 1800+ | AA 180+ | GG/EE/HH: who's counting?
    Holder of the world record for the longest ever "How to fix war matching" suggestion... Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5

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    Clash royale is more like the farm/trophy system was intended to be played in COC, if I had to guess. For the reasons you mentioned. things like TH snipe allowed for abuses

    clan wars was a play to spark interest, payed off massively. I get the feeling they didnt know how to wrangle the beast when modding, war optimization , etc took off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnyxDS View Post
    But where's the incentive to gem? A clan of TH9s with big heroes who gem hero time to war get beaten up by a bunch of engineered TH11s who never had to spend a single gem and can afford to war with heroes down... I don't see where SC benefits there.
    engineered 11 didnt gem? please explain how you get max heros on a defenseless then.

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    Forum Superstar OnyxDS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryryshouse View Post
    engineered 11 didnt gem? please explain how you get max heros on a defenseless then.
    Same way anyone else gets max heroes. For keeping DE having defences make little difference - people can steal it if they want. OK, a totally defenceless base would be a disadvantage here - it would be better to have a few teslas and traps to get a shield.

    But I don't think we've ever encountered a truly maxed hero defenceless base. The defenceless bases we see have middling heroes, at least 1 of which is asleep - they are using their extra offence so that they don't need to gem heroes to continue warring.
    TH9.5 | 1900+ war stars | Trophy record as TH9: 4579 (rank #4141, #67 in UK); as a 9.5: 5282
    XX: 5200+ | FF: 1800+ | AA 180+ | GG/EE/HH: who's counting?
    Holder of the world record for the longest ever "How to fix war matching" suggestion... Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnyxDS View Post
    Same way anyone else gets max heroes. For keeping DE having defences make little difference - people can steal it if they want. OK, a totally defenceless base would be a disadvantage here - it would be better to have a few teslas and traps to get a shield.

    But I don't think we've ever encountered a truly maxed hero defenceless base. The defenceless bases we see have middling heroes, at least 1 of which is asleep - they are using their extra offence so that they don't need to gem heroes to continue warring.
    Dude.. 40/40/20 is how many weeks? these popped up in the matter of a few months. Many of them were botted/gemmed.

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    Millennial Club TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnyxDS View Post
    But where's the incentive to gem? A clan of TH9s with big heroes who gem hero time to war get beaten up by a bunch of engineered TH11s who never had to spend a single gem and can afford to war with heroes down... I don't see where SC benefits there.
    Imagine SC worrying less about the clan with th9s, big heroes, green war log than they do about the clans that they regularly beat up who don't have big heroes, green war log. There's (pulling numbers out of the aft torpedo launcher) 8 to 10 times as many of them. War forum will always focus on clans of the type that visit the war forums, SC might not.
    Level 10 Adult War Clan METAMUCIL.
    And some of us are old enough that its not just a funny word...
    Metamucil keeps the red out of our logs. Small wars, great record, low pressure.
    War Record - https://cocp.it/clan/82GJJV2J

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    Millennial Club TankSinatra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryryshouse View Post
    Dude.. 40/40/20 is how many weeks? these popped up in the matter of a few months. Many of them were botted/gemmed.
    Yep if those accounts were started March 2016 and farmed like a job, they'd not be done with heroes yet. They'd also not have been a problem yet, as they'd have all heroes upgrading at all times.


    ETA but I'm falling into the trap I try to warn about often - max defenseless is the boogyman when we start talking about engineering, maybe everyone else sees them more often than I do, but I just don't see the epidemic. Much more common is heavy .5s, or just going nuts on offense beyond .5. This trend might not bother SC, perhaps they think they're encouraging perma-maxers to continue upgrading (even if not in balance). Basically, keeping them more engaged.
    Last edited by TankSinatra; April 19th, 2017 at 03:32 PM.
    Level 10 Adult War Clan METAMUCIL.
    And some of us are old enough that its not just a funny word...
    Metamucil keeps the red out of our logs. Small wars, great record, low pressure.
    War Record - https://cocp.it/clan/82GJJV2J

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    Quote Originally Posted by TankSinatra View Post
    Imagine SC worrying less about the clan with th9s, big heroes, green war log than they do about the clans that they regularly beat up who don't have big heroes, green war log. There's (pulling numbers out of the aft torpedo launcher) 8 to 10 times as many of them. War forum will always focus on clans of the type that visit the war forums, SC might not.
    My friends in "those clans" have greatly reduced warring due to frustration with the MM and the casualness of their play. ( my pool is real small in the grand scheme obviously)

    Id say there are more like 1000x times as many of these clans, if I had to guess. That is why the MM problems baffle me. the Defensively rushed casual got pounded out of the game.

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    Interesting hypothesis and it would make a lot of since. I have never played CR however I have heard the complaints. I would think that it might be more like a range that moves so a clan winning will end up being towards the weaker side of the range, the nail and those that lose a lot move to the stronger side, the hammer. It would be possible and is a very interesting idea.
    If you're not smarter than the guy you're dealing with you lose.
    You failed to utilize the most effective strategy by not using the most available resources to affect your outcome.
    I play to win. You play to see how tough you are.
    Defeat the enemy anyway you can.

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