bringing a partial perma/max lineup to war (kids dont try this at home)

[Warios]

Do you have Hero advantage? if not then is it just a simply roster Engineering?

we do have the hero advantage, but they have the advantage of 20 extra attacks with 11 spell slots to our 9 spell slot th9's.

Is that engineering or just rushed? When your TH10s are facing multiple EAs that sounds like rushed for 2 reasons:
- the huge weight of the EA means that something else pretty drastic has to be deficient to make that balance
- engineers don't build EA at all

they are rushed, but not rushed, from 16 up, have 3 xbows, from 11 up mostly lvl 12 point def or better. other then bottom th11 with EA, has no it, but lvl11 point. Once war day starts, it will be intresting to see what defence weights are on the map.

it's not that they are an engineered line up, just playing with the roster on the bottom, It's a real odd mix of bases, for example, #13, th10, 30/22 hero's, lvl 11 point, xbows 3/3/2, 2 lvl 8 WT, 80% lvl 10 walls. and has lvl5 valks, lvl3 hounds, no other lab work done. not realy rushed, just a intresting upgrade path.

[SuperStorm103]

Dunno why the MM hates Cnaf's clan, but here is a quick and dirty break down:

E=Eagle
I=Inferno
X=Crossbow

----TH.--E--I--X--BK--AQ-GW---BW

#01-11---1--2--4--45--45-20--109
#01-11---1--2--4--40--45-20--108

#02-11---1--2--4--30--38-20--108
#02-11---1--2--4--40--45-20--107

#03-11---1--2--4--40--40-10--104
#03-11---1--2--4--45--45-20--106

#04-10.5----2--4--36--40-20---93
#04-10.5----2--4--45--45-20---92

#05-10------2--3--34--40------87
#05-10.5----2--4--45--45-20---91

#06-10------2--3--27--33------87
#06-10.5----2--3--29--40-07---86

#07-10------2--3--18--22------86
#07-10---------3--40--40------75

#08-10---0--2--3--25--26-00---85
#08-11m--------2--44--45-20---75

#09-10------2--3--25--28-20---84
#09-11m--------2--45--45-20---75

#10-09---------2--30--30------70
#10-10---------3--34--40------74

#11-09---------2--25--30------69
#11-11m--------2--45--45-20---73

#12-09.5-------2--28--30------68
#12-09---------2--30--30------70

#13-09---------2--18--23------68
#13-09---------2--30--30------70

#14-09---------2--16--20------68
#14-09---------2--30--30------70

#15-09---------2--14--15------67
#15-09---------2--30--30------70

#16-09---------2--12--11------67
#16-09---------2--30--30------70

#17-09---------2--20--20------67
#17-09---------2--25--29------69

#18-09---------2--12--10------67
#18-11m--------2--33--36------69

#19-10m-----------19--23------67
#19-09---------2--21--22------68

#20-09.5-------2--12--15------66
#20-09.5-------2--25--26------68

#21-09---------2--20--30------65
#21-09---------2--22--30------68

#22-09---------2--20--20------65
#22-09---------2--22--21------68

#23-09---------2--18--15------63
#23-09---------2--21--22------66

#24-09----------2--10---8------62
#24-09---------2--26--27------65

#25-09-------------10----------56
#25-8.5-----------24--30------61

#26-8.5-----------10--10------55
#26-8.5-----------10--10------56

#27-08------------10----------55
#27-03--------------------------defensless

#28-08------------10----------54
#28-03--------------------------defensless

#29-8.5------------9---1------51
#29-03--------------------------defensless

#30-08-------------8----------50
#30-03--------------------------defensless

Does anybody else see any issues here......10 extra warden attacks with 8 of them being 45/45/20. The opposing clan clearly has hero advantage and defense advantage (if you don't count the last 4).

[jobob145]

quick look says red team has sacrificed some defense at the top (6 less infernos i think?) and at the bottom for more offense throughout.

right / wrong / fair / unfair / like / dislike opinions aside..
this is what the math of the game gives you.

each team makes their decisions accordingly.
red chose to go for the offensive power and was "rewarded" by sc
blue chose to go for the balanced power and was "punished" by sc

and by rewarded / punished i mean put in a position to win the war based on nothing but the math.

the issues would be in sc's algo.
statistically red team did a good job of recognizing what the algo looks for and what it will typically spit out.

[SuperStorm103]

quick look says red team has sacrificed some defense at the top (6 less infernos i think?) and at the bottom for more offense throughout.

right / wrong / fair / unfair / like / dislike opinions aside..
this is what the math of the game gives you.

each team makes their decisions accordingly.
red chose to go for the offensive power and was "rewarded" by sc
blue chose to go for the balanced power and was "punished" by sc

and by rewarded / punished i mean put in a position to win the war based on nothing but the math.

the issues would be in sc's algo.
statistically red team did a good job of recognizing what the algo looks for and what it will typically spit out.

While Your observations are true, 6 extra infernos does not warrant 10 extra th11 attacks. Besides the majority of the other bases they out weight us.

In the past, it's usually been the team with the advanced heroes and offense had less defenses and weaker bases. These guys however clearly had better offense capability by a long shot with a very small differences in defenses. I am well aware of how matches shake down. Don't really need help in that area, but thanks for the info anyways.

My main point was showing the disparity in the number of warden attacks the other team has. And the Match maker is a joke currently. This is just one more recent example of the issues we are facing. And, this is a more tame mis match then some of the other previous ones where the disparity was way way bigger.

Do you honestly thing that 6 infernos offset a 10 wardens advantage? Tell me again why the warden is free for anybody that wants him?

[jobob145]

no i don't think it offsets.
these posts are great at showing that.

on the other hand i flow/mold/adapt to what the algo is telling us the past couple years.
i would recommend everyone do the same if they dont want to be on the "blue end of the stick"
or dont.. up to each clan what they want of course.

and i dont know why the warden is free (or anything else sc does). they either have their reasons and we get what we get, or they have been "incompetent" and ... well we still get what we get?

[MossackFonseca]

quick look says red team has sacrificed some defense at the top (6 less infernos i think?) and at the bottom for more offense throughout.

right / wrong / fair / unfair / like / dislike opinions aside..
this is what the math of the game gives you.

each team makes their decisions accordingly.
red chose to go for the offensive power and was "rewarded" by sc
blue chose to go for the balanced power and was "punished" by sc

and by rewarded / punished i mean put in a position to win the war based on nothing but the math.

the issues would be in sc's algo.
statistically red team did a good job of recognizing what the algo looks for and what it will typically spit out.

It didn't for a long time, but the new mm algorithm seems to have started giving roster engineering a big advantage again. Either that, or the couple of mildly lopsided bases that cnaf has were enough to give him such a weird matchup. Well, or maybe the other clan just doesn't win very often so got an "easier" matchup to compensate.

[SuperStorm103]

It didn't for a long time, but the new mm algorithm seems to have started giving roster engineering a big advantage again. Either that, or the couple of mildly lopsided bases that cnaf has were enough to give him such a weird matchup. Well, or maybe the other clan just doesn't win very often so got an "easier" matchup to compensate.

The only base that I would consider close to lopsided would be #19 for cnaf. #20 has not even completely unlocked the first th10 benefits (Camps/Spell/CC). Again, a few bases on this scale should not mean completely unchecked unbalanced wars to this degree. The only explanation is that the grand warden is pretty much weightless. Which is just silly as he has the biggest factor in the game currently.

[Dadofzach]

Wow. It's really interesting to see these kind of Matchups posted.

We have zero 11s and all of our bases are fully balanced (no .5s) and have been consistently drawing 2-3 high level warden bases against us. In a 25v25 war that is killer to overcome no matter how good the attacking is. The defensive upgrades have been really interesting too for the engineered opponents since they are always enough for a "mirror" (meaning a th9) to have a really tough time 3 starring them. That never used to be an issue with the "defenseless" bases.

The engineered 11s are usually in with our middle upgraded 9s on the map. The high level heros, cc and maxed point defenses and traps make a th 9 attack no sure thing any more (this has changed a lot in the last 2-3 months.).

Sorry for the matchup but thanks for posting the whole line up for us.

[HumptyGoblin]

...

on the other hand i flow/mold/adapt to what the algo is telling us the past couple years.
i would recommend everyone do the same if they dont want to be on the "blue end of the stick"
or dont.. up to each clan what they want of course.

...

COC is unique in that it is constantly evolving. Most of us have adapted to a lot of the changes, and some major ones like sniping removal, and also roll with the punches. The TH11 update proved to be quite a disaster and drew immediate attention from supercell because of that. Remember how bad the loot was? They improved the situation with the loot cart and daily star bonuses, maybe even threw out more dead bases, and now everything isn't just fine but actually better than pre-update imo. For CW focused players, the current state of MM is every bit of a disaster as the snipe removal update was for the general clashing community. Obviously they haven't given the MM the same amount of attention as the great loot drought but myself and many others are certainly hoping they do. Especially since they've stated their intention to address lopsided bases in CW's. There are a lot of red shields out there for no other reason than what CW's have devolved into.

I did a war a few days ago, the only one I've participated in for the last 3 weeks. I'm tired of war matchups that are just dumb, like the one posted above by SS. People can tout adapt or die all they want, but we all have our own threshold that we're able to accept. Having to reconfigure our villages, of which our upgrades can't be undone lol, and our clans just to conform to an undesirable MM that could quite possibly change at any given time is well beyond what I'm willing to do. It's already a huge time consuming endeavor. If this is the best that SC can do, well then their game is not worth investing any more time into imo. I'm holding out hope because it's impossible for them not to recognize it. We'll see what they can come up with, if anything.

[ryryshouse]

Dunno why the MM hates Cnaf's clan, but here is a quick and dirty break down:

E=Eagle
I=Inferno
X=Crossbow

----TH.--E--I--X--BK--AQ-GW---BW

#01-11---1--2--4--45--45-20--109
#01-11---1--2--4--40--45-20--108

#02-11---1--2--4--30--38-20--108
#02-11---1--2--4--40--45-20--107

#03-11---1--2--4--40--40-10--104
#03-11---1--2--4--45--45-20--106

#04-10.5----2--4--36--40-20---93
#04-10.5----2--4--45--45-20---92

#05-10------2--3--34--40------87
#05-10.5----2--4--45--45-20---91

#06-10------2--3--27--33------87
#06-10.5----2--3--29--40-07---86

#07-10------2--3--18--22------86
#07-10---------3--40--40------75

#08-10---0--2--3--25--26-00---85
#08-11m--------2--44--45-20---75

#09-10------2--3--25--28-20---84
#09-11m--------2--45--45-20---75

#10-09---------2--30--30------70
#10-10---------3--34--40------74

#11-09---------2--25--30------69
#11-11m--------2--45--45-20---73

#12-09.5-------2--28--30------68
#12-09---------2--30--30------70

#13-09---------2--18--23------68
#13-09---------2--30--30------70

#14-09---------2--16--20------68
#14-09---------2--30--30------70

#15-09---------2--14--15------67
#15-09---------2--30--30------70

#16-09---------2--12--11------67
#16-09---------2--30--30------70

#17-09---------2--20--20------67
#17-09---------2--25--29------69

#18-09---------2--12--10------67
#18-11m--------2--33--36------69

#19-10m-----------19--23------67
#19-09---------2--21--22------68

#20-09.5-------2--12--15------66
#20-09.5-------2--25--26------68

#21-09---------2--20--30------65
#21-09---------2--22--30------68

#22-09---------2--20--20------65
#22-09---------2--22--21------68

#23-09---------2--18--15------63
#23-09---------2--21--22------66

#24-9----------2--10---8------62
#24-09---------2--26--27------65

#25-9-------------10----------56
#25-8.5-----------24--30------61

#26-8.5-----------10--10------55
#26-8.5-----------10--10------56

#27-08------------10----------55
#27-03--------------------------defensless

#28-08------------10----------54
#28-03--------------------------defensless

#29-8.5------------9---1------51
#29-03--------------------------defensless

#30-08-------------8----------50
#30-03--------------------------defensless

Does anybody else see any issues here......10 extra warden attacks with 8 of them being 45/45/20. The opposing clan clearly has hero advantage and defense advantage (if you don't count the last 4).

Looks normal to me.. roster engineering with some .5ing. Guess cnaf needs a tighter th spread and more balanced bases rofl