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Thread: What if matches were based strictly on offense

  1. #1
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    What if matches were based strictly on offense

    What are the downsides?

    I wonder how long it would take clans to recover if they just completely devalued defenses again and went with heroes and overall offense for matching. I like what the did back in October of last year, when it hurt .5s to the point where they should have just started building the big defenses. I thought the October update was great and was hoping everyone could just build the big defenses and stop holding back. What happens if they take it further and completely push heroes as the plumb line so it forces everyone to build every defense. There would be those that would complain initially because they are defensively outmatched, but would it really take that long to recover? Have they done this in the past to a much greater extent? Outside of the initial onset of uneven matches, what were the downsides? I'm thinking it would take people at most, 2 months to recover if they built everything. Well, 2 months for most people, it'll completely demolish TH9 - TH11 defenseless bases.

  2. #2
    Millennial Club xXXCHRISXXx's Avatar
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    You'd have people with max defense and one war troop unlocked. It'd be low offense engineering.
    Last edited by xXXCHRISXXx; April 18th, 2017 at 07:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xXXCHRISXXx View Post
    You'd have people with max defense and one war troop unlocked. It'd be low offense engineering.
    Please expound on the difficulties this would propose. Are you saying someone would have max heroes and only 1 war troop unlocked? Like dragons? How does this pose an issue? TH8 was the last time troops (dragons) could solo a maxed TH without heroes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadrach777 View Post
    Please expound on the difficulties this would propose. Are you saying someone would have max heroes and only 1 war troop unlocked? Like dragons? How does this pose an issue? TH8 was the last time troops (dragons) could solo a maxed TH without heroes.
    in that scenario, if you have a max defense th10, who only upgrades dragons or even giwiz, and heroes. He will have an offensive weight of a th7/8. He would then match the lower th. He rolls him for 3, and the th7/8 gets 1 star.

    Reverse of today, but still unbalanced.

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    Forum Elder dorsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripple1972 View Post
    in that scenario, if you have a max defense th10, who only upgrades dragons or even giwiz, and heroes. He will have an offensive weight of a th7/8. He would then match the lower th. He rolls him for 3, and the th7/8 gets 1 star.

    Reverse of today, but still unbalanced.
    You don't even need to get that far. Imagine a full th7 defense guy with th4 troops. Poor th4s couldn't touch his base and he would 3 star all the th4s in his path.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripple1972 View Post
    in that scenario, if you have a max defense th10, who only upgrades dragons or even giwiz, and heroes. He will have an offensive weight of a th7/8. He would then match the lower th. He rolls him for 3, and the th7/8 gets 1 star.

    Reverse of today, but still unbalanced.
    So let's explore the scenario you are trying to build and see if it's plausible. So they only have TH7 level 2 dragons and giwiz? I said this would be based strictly on offense, so army size of 180, 7 spells slots and maxed out TH10 defenses? You did say heroes, but you stated he would have an offensive weight of a TH7/TH8, so that would imply only BK of lvl 1-10. How plausible is this scenario? People can grind out defenseless accounts, but how plausible are handicapped offense accounts?

    To protect from this scenario, let's add a check for bomb towers, xbows, ITs and eagle. They don't have defensive values, just that if you have them, then your opponent has to have them. So the matchmaker would only pair your scenario with another clan who has the same level BK +/- 1 lvl (no AQ), BTs, xbows and ITs.With the added check, I don't know if the matchmaker would ever find a match. If it did, it would only ever match other rushed accounts that wouldn't be maxed, but TH7 level troops would utterly die going against xbows and ITs that I don't think it would be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by dorsan View Post
    You don't even need to get that far. Imagine a full th7 defense guy with th4 troops. Poor th4s couldn't touch his base and he would 3 star all the th4s in his path.
    A valid point, however war does not revolve around TH4s. How long do people stay at TH4, 3-4 days? What's TH5 1-2 weeks. I say we shift the mentality and not protect the TH3-TH6s because it takes them at most 2 months to get out of that bad situation. People spend years at TH9 and up, so let's protect these people for the time they've put into the game. New people will still have tons of fun in multiplayer battles.

    Think of the reverse scenario which happens today, brand new TH9 and they build their shiny new lvl 2 xbow because it was purchased through value pack. Clan leader, "Sorry, you now need to grind your heroes to 20/20 in order to be effective in war." This may take months if not longer. Or what about the brand new TH10 with teen heroes who builds ITs and the clan leader tells them they can no longer be included until they have 30/30+ heroes.

    Let's go back to your scenario, TH4 just finished leveling all troops to max TH4 and paired with TH7. Clan leader, "Don't worry, we've got a TH7 already that can cover that base. Go for loot and in a few days you'll be TH5" Then that TH4 offense/TH7 defense may or may not 3 star that TH4 account. What value does that add to the roster anymore? In the reverse with defenseless accounts they traded 3 easy stars to get 6 stars. In my offense only matchmaker, the handicapped offense account may only get 1-2 stars for their given spot in the roster. Why keep that? I say bring that engineer on, because it's not a problem worth protecting.
    Last edited by Shadrach777; April 18th, 2017 at 10:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadrach777 View Post
    A valid point, however war does not revolve around TH4s. How long do people stay at TH4, 3-4 days? What's TH5 1-2 weeks. I say we shift the mentality and not protect the TH3-TH6s because it takes them at most 2 months to get out of that bad situation. People spend years at TH9 and up, so let's protect these people for the time they've put into the game. New people will still have tons of fun in multiplayer battles.
    Brilliant, let's talk about th9s then.

    clan 1: 10 max th9s
    clan 2: 10 max defense th10s with max th9 troops and 30/30 heroes

    Exact same offense. Who will win?

    You might fall into the trap thinking that people wouldn't make defensively engineered bases because they are not doing it right now, but as soon as it would give you an advantage they would switch.


    So let's fix this by - as you suggested - checking the number of x-bows, infernos and eagles?

    No problem. In that situation this is what will happen:
    Clan 1: 10 maxed th9s
    Clan 2: 10 people with maxed th11 defenses, but no infernos, eagles and only 2 level 3 x-bows with th9 armies and 30/30 heroes

    See? No matter what you do, unless you account for both defense and offense, people will find a way around it.
    Last edited by dorsan; April 18th, 2017 at 10:26 PM.
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    Forum Superstar OnyxDS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadrach777 View Post
    People can grind out defenseless accounts, but how plausible are handicapped offense accounts?
    A TH8 with only hogs, arch and heal upgraded, no dark spells has an offence score well below max TH7. It's possible to get it down to more like a TH6 offence score and still triple TH8s. And with max TH8 defences it defends as well as any other TH8. Counting it as a TH6, or maybe TH7 doesn't seem ideal
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorsan View Post
    Brilliant, let's talk about th9s then.

    clan 1: 10 max th9s
    clan 2: 10 max defense th10s with max th9 troops and 30/30 heroes

    Exact same offense. Who will win?

    You might fall into the trap thinking that people wouldn't make defensively engineered bases because they are not doing it right now, but as soon as it would give you an advantage they would switch.


    So let's fix this by - as you suggested - checking the number of x-bows, infernos and eagles?

    No problem. In that situation this is what will happen:
    Clan 1: 10 maxed th9s
    Clan 2: 10 people with maxed th11 defenses, but no infernos, eagles and only 2 level 3 x-bows with th9 armies and 30/30 heroes

    See? No matter what you do, unless you account for both defense and offense, people will find a way around it.
    The original intent is to get people to build big defenses and stop holding back. Provide matches with huge disadvantage if they don't want to build ITs or Eagle. I also want a system that does not encourage people to park at max TH9, so yes I want mismatch 1 you presented to happen because I want clan 1 forced to upgrade to next TH and start building the next set of defenses. For the second match you posted, I expect would also happen, but I would expect clan 2 to also get matches against full blown TH11s with eagles to force them to add defenses.

    So my check that I want to add is too restrictive, but then if I look back at the original scenario presented of TH7 offense, with TH10 defense, perhaps we shouldn't protect against this.

    I think SC is thinking along the same lines of creating mismatches as a win streak gets bigger so people still have the incentive to upgrade. Completely on par matches do exist if everyone is maxed TH11. If everyone had equal matches all the time below TH11, then why upgrade anything?
    Last edited by Shadrach777; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:12 PM.

  10. #10
    Forum All-Star 2222's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadrach777 View Post
    The original intent is to get people to build big defenses and stop holding back. Provide matches with huge disadvantage if they don't want to build ITs or Eagle. I also want a system that does not encourage people to park at max TH9, so yes I want mismatch 1 you presented to happen because I want clan 1 forced to upgrade to next TH and start building the next set of defenses. For the second match you posted, I expect would also happen, but I would expect clan 2 to also get matches against full blown TH11s with eagles to force them to add defenses.

    So my check that I want to add is too restrictive, but then if I look back at the original scenario presented of TH7 offense, with TH10 defense, perhaps we shouldn't protect against this.

    I think SC is thinking along the same lines of creating mismatches as a win streak gets bigger so people still have the incentive to upgrade. Completely on par matches do exist if everyone is maxed TH11. If everyone had equal matches all the time below TH11, then why upgrade anything?
    The intent of trying to get people to build defense is clear, but the problem is the proposed solution would just change from one type of uneven match to another. Why would we want a system that considers two accounts with the same offense but one with max defense and one with low defense to have the same power? If you are looking for a simple way to encourage a balanced account, then having the matchmaker count offense or defense, whichever is higher for the account, would do that. However, that is too simplistic too, I think. There are threads going here with more detailed suggestions by people smarter than me.
    Last edited by 2222; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:26 PM.

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