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Thread: Engineering....Why?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHammy View Post
    I wanted to ask, What is the appeal to engineering a clan?
    I think the main one is to be as strong at the game as possible.

    No matter what your clan's total skill level is, that skill level + engineering is stronger.

  2. #12
    Forum Veteran sheedy17's Avatar
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    I have a TH11 main account and a TH9 wall less account with level 1 of every d

    I enjoy playing the game both ways. I love my Th11 and have ALOT of fun hitting the high levels

    I also enjoy my TH9, I don't usually war or take it too seriously, I use it to send max drags or loons to my main account

    When I do war, I am a TH9 and I am last on our map, this is a massive advantage as I can take out every TH8 and the badly designed TH9 and some decent TH9s this is an advantage as a TH9, if I can go up 6 on the map as the last guy in war

    I don't see it as cheating at all or anything to do with fair play

    You war to win, and if engineering gives you an advantage, you do whatever you can to win within the rules...

    I have no problem facing clans like this, or with people doing it. Again this is a strategy game and just one of many strat's you can have
    Remember everyone, this is the internet, stay fit and have fun

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHammy View Post
    I have been playing Clash of Clans for about 4 years now and am noticing much more engineered clans....I wanted to ask, What is the appeal to engineering a clan? Why do you guys do this? IMHO you cant be a true War Clan while engineered....I have some very strong feelings/opinions about this subject and wanted to hear from the Engineers that think that engineering is FP...Please tell me why you think this way. Thanks
    Hi, almost everyone engineers. Engineering is upgrading your base, structuring your clan, setting clan policies with the matchmaker in mind, as well as selecting and rejecting bases that are iether good or bad in war.

    When you tell people not to drop infeno or eagle unless they have progressed their bases a little after newly upgrading townhall, when you tell people with heroes down not to war, when you reject from your clan a base with good war stars, but week troops and strong defences (typical organic farming base), or if you keep you offence stronger than your defence, or if you upgrading archer towers to Max but uppgrade mortars last, or you full your rostar with th3 at the bottom, or run your rostar with a high amount of weight in the top 35% of bases, or you run defenceless or .5 accounts - its all engineering. If you gemmed or put priority on maxing heroes in the early days, thats engineering.

    Maxing was really the first type of engineering when we knew no better, maxed bases normally had the advantage most wars, as they would often face a base with lower hero levels and lower wall levels. Early wars were all about heroes, wall and troops.

    Engineering has become a problem for 2 reasons,

    1 people trend to decide on their own aubtrary rules of what matchmaker cognizant actions are ok and are not. Some people say .5 bases are totaly cool, others think its the devil. I saw a funny thread the other day where someone was highly critical of having 4 x .5 in your clan, but 3 was ok. People with .5 often think super .5 is engineering and they are smart upgrading, and everyone thinks defenceless is engineering. The pattern is in line with the ancient philospher ONYX's maxim...

    "We uppgrade smartly, they engineer." onyx 1000 AD

    People usually draw the line where engineering begins just in front of there toes (not all).

    The biggest problem, problem 2, is that engineering currently creates way to much advantage way to easily, i accept that their should be some small advantage to heroes an wall to keep players farming and active but ro give huge advantage that wars no longer are competive are no fun and will ruin the game.

    The problem comes in that you cannot critisise players, for doing the same thing everyone else does, just to a higher degree. In a sense you are demanding that they build weaker bases on purpose. Silly really. So you have to focus on the matchamker, who should ir reward, and by how much.

    I think supercell should make all wars even enough so that if you controll for skill and just look at the matchup, no side, assuming equal skill and effort on both sides, have a more than 57% chance to win because of the matchup. The average advantage should 52 to 53 %. And the advantage should be on the items that are hard to grind out (heroes and wall) and should also favor progression. It should never be a th9 wars to stay maxed forever because he is afraid if he upgrades he will hurt his clan in wars.

    Its about rewarding the right things, in the right amount. To give advantage for rushing to th9, only upgrading drags, and upgrading a few defences (to th6 level) should not be a better base to bring into a war clan than a maxed th10, or a balaced th8. Its easier to create so why should it get a matchmaker advantage? We also cant reward things that are beyond what casuals can create, an defenceless th11 with Max offence takes huge effort or gems to built, but to reward it means casuals can never built similar bases, and will quit.

    Some people favor a perfect parity matchmaker, i think that will mean no one will farm very much, leading to dead clanchats, an you will not feel reward as your heroes level up.

    so to answer your question, unless you upgrading in a war noob organic farming style (defence rushed), and you have never rejected a base because it clearly was bad for war (rushed, defence rushed, weak war troops) despite it having decent war stars, unless that is true, then an engineer thinks the same way as you. They are trying to win. To them you are asking them to build bases that are weaker than they could, to an aubtrary level that YOU choose. Isnt that kinda funny?

    The correct unit of analysis for me clearly is not the engineer, but the matchmaker, and the correct quesrions are how does it currently work, why does supercell do this, how should it work, and why should it work that way, and then finaly how can that be achieved.


    Thank you for your thought provoking question, I can tell you dislike engineers, yet were polite anyway. Hats off.
    Last edited by Vikingchief; 6 Days Ago at 06:38 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiler View Post
    And that's really the root of the discussion. Opinions are like...belly buttons. Everyone's got one. And in other's honest opinions, your opinion is wrong, and engineering is a totally legitimate, viable and respectable strategy.

    As for FP, according to the ToS, it's 100% fair play. Some people will argue about what is or isn't morally fair, but from an objective position, engineering is FP
    totally agree, well put.

    Edit: I has not read any of your posts before the forum rep system game into being, I think that mushroom put me off, but after seeing your rep I started playing attention, you are a great poster. Your like a non abrasive Aspex. Aspex is so abrasive, he caught on fire while bundgy jumping, like a meteor buring up in the atmosphere. You have most of aspex's quality, with the friendlyness of johnnyfsullivans or hatchelhoff.

    should we fall you johnnypex or Asphoff? Maybe tiler will do.
    Last edited by Vikingchief; 1 Week Ago at 02:33 PM.

  5. #15
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    It's 100% FP. It can be annoying to get a terrible matchup, but that doesn't mean it's cheating. Those engineers worked twice as hard to get to where they are. Imagine getting 100%d by th7s and above every time you log off. Engineering is not an easy development path.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 842 View Post
    It's 100% FP. It can be annoying to get a terrible matchup, but that doesn't mean it's cheating. Those engineers worked twice as hard to get to where they are. Imagine getting 100%d by th7s and above every time you log off. Engineering is not an easy development path.
    unless your a th8 your not generally seeing th7's in multi.

    I can tell you the last time as a th10 I saw a th8.

  7. #17
    Forum Champion Johnnyfsullivan's Avatar
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    OP, when you insinuate engineering is not fair play, it usually leads to a toxic discussion.

    There are many threads on this issue. Typically, focusing on the matchmaking algorithm helps for a better exchange rather than determining if it's fair or not. The Clan Wars sub-forum is where these threads get grouped together, FYI.

    I've kept a bunch of threads bookmarked for reference. If you have the time or desire, these touch on the issue.

    Engineering

    Nerf’s suggestions for engineered bases / clans
    http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...17#post7861017

    http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...01#post7979801

    http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...82#post8067582

    http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...58#post8371458

    http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...24#post8371624

    Billius discussion on the impact of Engineered clans and bases to the game
    http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...-and-Farm-Wars

    Onyx view on Engineering
    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...84#post9272584

    Seachicken view on Engineering
    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...53#post9304253

    Sumosloth on Engineering
    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...ut-Engineering

    Noctaire's blog on Engineering
    http://nocsclashjournal.blogspot.com...-how-best.html

    How to avoid Engineering
    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...mpetitive-wars

    Nerf's response to how to avoid engineering thread
    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...33#post9910533
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  8. #18
    Millennial Club AjAyPeRi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadPoool View Post
    People do engineering if they are tired of farming or pushing / tired of heavy and hard wars OR if they want to build a green war log.
    You can't win from highly engineers but a draw if you are great warrior
    Stop talking about stuff you clearly have no idea about for God's sake

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiler View Post
    And that's really the root of the discussion. Opinions are like...belly buttons. Everyone's got one. And in other's honest opinions, your opinion is wrong, and engineering is a totally legitimate, viable and respectable strategy.

    As for FP, according to the ToS, it's 100% fair play. Some people will argue about what is or isn't morally fair, but from an objective position, engineering is FP
    Did he ever in his post mention engineering to be cheating or not in the ToS? No he didn't.
    Yes, unlike modding, engineering is well within the ToS, but it is just as unfair in that it ruins the experience for others by providing an automatic win for the engineprobleOh,there is nothing RESPECTABLE about engineering, from wherever you got that.

    Quote Originally Posted by OnyxDS View Post
    I presume if you are against all forms of engineering you allow TH10s with full guns and 10/10 heroes to war in your clan?
    Here, the problem isn't a new th9/10/11 not building the new defences immediately to get his offence up,or heck ,even the .5s are kinda acceptable in the sense that they are beateble if one is skillful enough. But a th11 getting matched against a th9 and easily rolling it with dragons and/or the warden IS a problem, guaranteeing an automatic win/draw(depending on the th levels) to the opponent clan unless they are stupid or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by fette View Post
    May I just remind OP that clash is a tablet game ...for entertainment...played with yer fingers bashing upon the screen ...

  9. #19
    I have both type of account a mid th10 with 33/40 heros and en engineered one which just started upgrading loons to 7. I started engineering just because my mid th10 which is #1 in our clan always matched with max defence th10 with low heros(20/20). So I need to balance this mismatch. Give me fair matchup for my main i will stop engineering
    Last edited by Nahid314; 1 Week Ago at 02:39 PM.

  10. #20

    Its the only smart way to war.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeHammy View Post
    I have been playing Clash of Clans for about 4 years now and am noticing much more engineered clans....I wanted to ask, What is the appeal to engineering a clan? Why do you guys do this? IMHO you cant be a true War Clan while engineered....I have some very strong feelings/opinions about this subject and wanted to hear from the Engineers that think that engineering is FP...Please tell me why you think this way. Thanks



    Engineering has gone really bad for those that create a roster of engineered bases in their clan. Building you base the smart way for war has been there for a long time. The rule of thumb is that if you can't 3 star your mirror base with the current troops you have, your defence is probably stronger than your offence. So most people realized that placing an xbow, upgrading, mortors, upgrading wiz towers made their war mirror more difficult especially if their offence was weak.

    So rule of thumb for war is offence before defence until you can 3 star your mirror base. Its the smart way to upgrade your bases. For example you just upgraded to th9 and place 2 xbows on your base. Well with the current troops you have that is a disadvantage, as you will most likely not be able to 3 star your mirror because you have th8 offence facing xbows.

    Now some people took advantage of this war weight and created clans with lopsided offence vs defence. Thus creating mismatches. SC has worked it a bit so that if your clan is heavily engineered your probably going to face another engineered clan. Engineered clans used to thrive with the old system where everyone had defenceless th10 and get matched with a lvl 2 clan with weak offence. No that rarely occurs as SC tries to make sure those clans face other engineered clans.

    But my suggestion is to upgrade smartly or you are just going to make it harder on yourself and your clan mates in war.

    The link below has helped me upgrade what needs to be upgraded for war

    https://www.allclash.com/upgrade-pri...for-clan-wars/

    Bazooka Storm
    Gama sharks Clan Leader - Clash of Clans
    Clan Tag: #Y002UJ8V

    Clash Royal Clan.... Clan Tag: #80JPLQR......Clan Name: Gama Sharks


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