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Thread: war mismatch elimination

  1. #1
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    war mismatch elimination

    Two small checks done during war search would eliminate the worst mismatches:

    1. if the strongest defense on one side is a different TH level than the strongest defense on the other side, don't match the two clans
    2. if the base with the strongest offense on one side has a higher TH level than the other side's strongest offense base and strongest defense base, don't match the two clans

    Then do everything else the same as it currently is.

  2. #2
    Forum Superstar SMAEL's Avatar
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    I think that noone would be able to find a match at CW.

    I think that SC is already working on MM.

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  3. #3
    Forum Hero rwelshjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by littledoctor View Post
    Two small checks done during war search would eliminate the worst mismatches:

    1. if the strongest defense on one side is a different TH level than the strongest defense on the other side, don't match the two clans
    2. if the base with the strongest offense on one side has a higher TH level than the other side's strongest offense base and strongest defense base, don't match the two clans

    Then do everything else the same as it currently is.
    I get what you are reaching for but I fear thats a bit too simplistic. Its going to cause other issues done exactly that way. I think the adjustment will gave to come with the weighting of the bases. Unfortunately its not a simple equation so it might take them a few tries to get it dialed in. I can get if guys feel impatient but keep in mind that its better overall if they slowly get it dialed in than risk a big overcorrection.
    Last edited by rwelshjr; March 29th, 2017 at 06:56 PM.
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    Our matches almost always fit these two criteria already so our 10 minute search times would be unchanged. The matchmaker already attempts to avoid these two kinds of mismatches, so I think they are uncommon. But they are not uncommon enough that people don't come onto the forums and complain when they occur, and preventing them with these two simple rules is straightforward, with minimal computational overhead.

    This is mainly a fix for extreme engineering (lots of defenseless with TH11 on top). But I have heard of offense or defense mismatches occurring between non-engineered clans as well.

    The people who would benefit from this change are people who have weird war lineups, people who war with small bases on top (TH8 or lower), and non-engineers.

    Quote Originally Posted by rwelshjr View Post
    Its going to cause other issues done exactly that way.
    Can you think of any examples of issues that it could cause? I'm open to exploring the idea's flaws.

    In a nutshell, the goal is to eliminate offense advantages and defense advantages. Current matchmaking attempts this but it's vulnerable to manipulation. Defenseless TH11 are too powerful, especially in TH8 and lower clan wars.
    Last edited by littledoctor; March 29th, 2017 at 07:04 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member pacomius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by littledoctor View Post
    Two small checks done during war search would eliminate the worst mismatches:

    1. if the strongest defense on one side is a different TH level than the strongest defense on the other side, don't match the two clans
    2. if the base with the strongest offense on one side has a higher TH level than the other side's strongest offense base and strongest defense base, don't match the two clans

    Then do everything else the same as it currently is.
    from what i understood, i think it is a good idea in an aspect. but like a comment says, it is too simplistic. this is because, for smaller weaker clans with just 1 th10 or th11 it should work well, but for bigger stronger clans it will not resolve anything. when you get a war match the first thing to count is how many potential stars you have and how many the opponents have; that is what determines whether it is a mismatch or not. (however a mismatch doesn't mean impossibility; it only means you need some superheroic attacks to overturn it or some epic fails from the opponent).

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    Quote Originally Posted by pacomius View Post
    from what i understood, i think it is a good idea in an aspect. but like a comment says, it is too simplistic. this is because, for smaller weaker clans with just 1 th10 or th11 it should work well, but for bigger stronger clans it will not resolve anything. when you get a war match the first thing to count is how many potential stars you have and how many the opponents have; that is what determines whether it is a mismatch or not. (however a mismatch doesn't mean impossibility; it only means you need some superheroic attacks to overturn it or some epic fails from the opponent).
    I agree, it doesn't solve every problem, but it does solve the two biggest ones. Call it a step in the right direction.

    An early version of the idea was to match the TH level of the top N bases of both clans, where N is how many of whatever the highest TH level was. So if your clan's highest TH was TH10 and you are going to war with 5 of them, this would force your opponent to also have 5 TH10s. However, I discarded that because it would delay matchmaking way more; it is much easier to match 1 base than 5 or 10 or whatever, and war search is long enough already for folks at 40v40. Maybe the game could aspire to that for the first 10 minutes or so of the war search, idunno. I've heard that 40v40 wars can already have multi-hour search times and I don't want to make that even worse.

  7. #7
    Forum Superstar SMAEL's Avatar
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    The search time depends on: how many players you have for war, the biggest th difference and search time (evening, morning...)

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  8. #8
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    It wouldn't solve much. I don't think it would cause more problems, but I also don't think it would help. All it takes is one maxed base at the top to allow all of the defenseless accounts they can fit into the roster. We're fighting an engineered clan now. They've got a maxed out 11 and a few maxed wardens with no defenses at the bottom of the roster where my TH8 and 9s are
    Last edited by Tiler; March 30th, 2017 at 01:33 PM.

  9. #9
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    i'm gonna keep chiming in on this for now. offense wins wars. If your offense is max'd usually the worst you will do is a tie.
    Offense should count for the lion share of the war weight, offense should also be measured in army potential.
    i.e. if you have max loons/hound, it doesn't really matter that your barbs and archers are level 3, or that you don't have bowlers/miners.

    a max lava loon attack will three star every th10 in existence barring connection drop, and many times you have a shot at 3 on a TH11 that is not max defensively. But since you neglected your defenses you will rarely if ever get matched up against a TH11.

    If you got matched up against a proper TH11 because you have a proper TH11 war army, it will stop all these shenanigans cold.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiler View Post
    It wouldn't solve much. I don't think it would cause more problems, but I also don't think it would help. All it takes is one maxed base at the top to allow all of the defenseless accounts they can fit into the roster. We're fighting an engineered clan now. They've got a maxed out 11 and a few maxed wardens with no defenses at the bottom of the roster where my TH8 and 9s are
    I agree that this solution would not fix your problem. However, wouldn't your situation be even worse if you did not have a TH11 on top, and the other side did?

    I wish we had statistics about how common the different kinds of mismatches are. Only supercell knows how many clans this would help.

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