Engineering is fair play

[kimchilove]

ahh the rabbit is out of the hat...we upgrade sensibly, they engineer...
I disagree with you Holps, a 9.5 is a lopsided base, just like a defenseless TH11. Many people accuse me of being an engineer, yet my clan would never accept a x.5 or defenseless account.

Lmaoooo what?? 9.5 is lopsided? N u comparing it to a defenseless th11? ♥♥♥♥ dude plz stop for the love of god. .5 although advantageous(maybe not as much now but still offer slight advantage at least) is nowhere near as advantageous as a defenseless th11. Dude r u for real? Lol n u claim to know about mm?

[Azrial]

ETA- very important to distinguish clan makeup there. Plenty of clans where that defenseless TH11 would do well, plenty of clans using them that currently are. Our clan, as it is currently constructed- is not conducive for it.

Sounds like in your clan (maxers with high heroes/offense) a defenseless base would hurt you.

If they can be an asset or a liability I don't see how that is unfair?

You just described a way they could be a liability in your clan makeup.

If they are an asset, that base must be making up for deficiencies (poor attacking, poor hero levels, etc) elsewhere in the clan. I have no issues with people using an engineered base for this purpose. The reason I don't mind it is that in lieu of engineering the clan could alternatively bench or boot players who are bad attackers or have poor hero levels. If they did this then they'd end having the makeup similar to your clan and then that defenseless base would become a liability.

[kimchilove]

Please note the following post reflects a personal view of the writer and in no way purports to represents the view of Supercell, It's Developers or the lady that fills the Coke machine.



War's were meant to be up to 50 player, reasonably matched clans fighting it out in a battle of skill. It truly depresses me that with the exception of the very top war clans it is heading down the route of the contest being decided by who has the more efficiently engineered clan. (Engineering is not and never will be skill)
What is an even more negative reflection on the issue is how many perfectly decent Clashers have felt compelled to join the Engineered crowd and even defend it passionately as a legit tactic when deep down they absolutely know they are exploiting a loophole that's yet to be plugged.
I have no problem at all raising my standard and saying that in the spirit of Classic Clan wars fought face to face until the last second ticks down I personally do not agree it is Fairplay at all.
It is not cheating but it is slowly ruining Clan Wars for all those who choose not to do it. I've said it before, and I stand by it, that Clash is Clan wars for me, and Engineers are a bigger threat to the longevity of the game than Modders ever were. They will quickly alienate and drive away the new Clashers learning this great game and creating clans for the first time, as well as longer term Clashers who cannot afford to grow defenceless TH11's.
Show me an honest clan of 50 war hungry players and I promise you when they find a match many of them will immediately scroll down to the base of the enemies clan to check for TH10's and 11...is that what you envisioned and wanted for Clan wars? I guess if it's a yes then you're an engineer and if not you can come round for a BBQ while we moan about it over a beer.

Had to repost this just in case anyone missed it lol. It was well written n logic behind it is spot on

[kimchilove]

yes.

Furthermore, the fact that anytime a clan leader or person comes here asking for advice on how to improve their war performance the answer is always inevitably to STOP building defenses of any kind and only upgrade offense screams loudly that there is a problem with the matchmaker. The fact that TH10s don't want infernos, and TH11 don't want Eagles because having them in their base HURTS them for war... screams loudly that there is a problem with the matchmaker!

It got better after October (post-March was horrendous), but could probably stand to be improved upon further.


YES!

And regarding the part I bolded, I've been consistent in stating exactly that, including in one of the threads Johnny always links:

Also had to repost this lol. Beautifully said in regards to building def will hurt u instead of help u.

[MrJackrabbit]

Im in a war right now that we are not going to win. They have 3 bases up top with 40/40/20 + heroes. Num 1 is maxed. Num 2 is a 10.5, and num 3 doesnt have infernos. All their th9's have MONSTER HEROES, some maxed. And they got 9m5's sprinkled in with the 9's, like 2 or 3 of em have 5 spells. I am the lone th11, and i am not even CLOSE TO A MAX TH11, NOT EVEN IN THE SAME GALAXY. I got 41/33/10 heroes, level 2 eagle, and then all th10 defenses. We have 1 medium th10, and 2 newborn baby th10's, one who doesnt have his third xbow yet and the other doesnt have his second inferno yet. They are definitely putting up 74 stars in this 25 v 25, AND THEN THEYRE GONNA TAKE TURNS ON ME, ALL 3 OF EM. So they may put up 75 cuz im not maxed or close to max. All their lowers are gonna clean our 9's and 8's cuz theyre 9's are huge and th9 is a dead town hall today. So dont you engineers tell me that this is good for the game, I DONT WANNA HEAR IT. WE COULD STOP THE SMOKING MIRRORS NOW

This is not about engineering but something else.
Prior to the Feb update many were complaining about matchups. Not engineers but that th10's wo inferos were matched with th10 with level 3. Th9s wo xbows were matched with th with. Th11 wo ea were matched against th11 with. So SC changed it. And everyone started complaining about engineering. Now that SC has changed it back to pre Feb the same old old comolaints are coming up. Just now the blame is in engineers.
Check out the hulk files. I dont think he plays anymore. He had a bunch of ideas how to combat going against xbow it and ea.

[TankSinatra]

Lmaoooo what?? 9.5 is lopsided? N u comparing it to a defenseless th11? ♥♥♥♥ dude plz stop for the love of god. .5 although advantageous(maybe not as much now but still offer slight advantage at least) is nowhere near as advantageous as a defenseless th11. Dude r u for real? Lol n u claim to know about mm?

.5 is engineering - letting your understanding of the matchmaker drive your upgrade decisions. It also becomes lopsided very quickly. If you upgrade the big offense for your townhall but don't drop the big defense? Lopsided.

Is defenseless even more lopsided? Sure. Is a defenseless th11 a big MM advantage? Dunno actually. Never had one on my team, never seen one on the other team despite warring 24/7 in two clans.

[Woofdini]

It is a pretty complicated thing to talk about, since there are many different views and definitions.

I do agree that, sometimes, 9.5 can be considered an engineered (or however you call those now) base. Perma-9.5s (what is the definition of 9.5 though? Nothing added since TH9, nothing upgraded, or only certain things upgraded? That's another variable to enter in the equation) is also another concept to discuss, cause it's more likely a smart path to not insta-drop infernos (imo) while your offense power (specially spell factory / cc / key lab upgrades) is still not consolidated as a TH10.

I've seen quite a lot of defenseless bases recently, or Th11 bases with 30/30+ and weighting as TH7~8, didn't change much on those the last MM balance.

[kimchilove]

.5 is engineering - letting your understanding of the matchmaker drive your upgrade decisions. It also becomes lopsided very quickly. If you upgrade the big offense for your townhall but don't drop the big defense? Lopsided.

Is defenseless even more lopsided? Sure. Is a defenseless th11 a big MM advantage? Dunno actually. Never had one on my team, never seen one on the other team despite warring 24/7 in two clans.

Doesnt lopsided mean extreme? Is .5 route of ug actually that extreme? Advantageous sure but it isnt extreme no? As far whether or not it being advantageous, of course it is. No? Tbh im not 100% sure bc I never used engineered bases or defenseless bases

[HanniUK]

Great argument. They used to use the same logic to justify slavery. Get real buddy- it's taking an unfair advantage. It may not be against the rules but it's poor sportsmanship

[TankSinatra]

Doesnt lopsided mean extreme? Is .5 route of ug actually that extreme? Advantageous sure but it isnt extreme no? As far whether or not it being advantageous, of course it is. No? Tbh im not 100% sure bc I never used engineered bases or defenseless bases

Does lopsided mean extreme? How much is too much, and must be called extreme? Don't know. I'd guess most players will look at anyone that goes one step farther than they did, and call it extreme.
But its not a worthwhile argument. SC's October update, which they said was aimed at lopsided bases, clearly hit .5s. So I don't think there's a point in splitting hairs over what's extreme and what isn't.