Engineering is fair play

[2SmallButts]

of course they are not cheating ... that was what Supercell wanted in the first place ... to create an imaginative platform to showcase your talents and working at your optimum given the environment.

how do u get a TH11 with 1 cannon and level 10 king and queen and level 5 warden? and maxed dragons? ... you pay for it ...

[Holps]

Well that just sounds like a poor choice....

Maybe so but the forum clan is a very specific and unique example of a warring clan created to help build a better forum community, not to simply pile up wins. You have to see it in that context.

[daddylindo]

Im in a war right now that we are not going to win. They have 3 bases up top with 40/40/20 + heroes. Num 1 is maxed. Num 2 is a 10.5, and num 3 doesnt have infernos. All their th9's have MONSTER HEROES, some maxed. And they got 9m5's sprinkled in with the 9's, like 2 or 3 of em have 5 spells. I am the lone th11, and i am not even CLOSE TO A MAX TH11, NOT EVEN IN THE SAME GALAXY. I got 41/33/10 heroes, level 2 eagle, and then all th10 defenses. We have 1 medium th10, and 2 newborn baby th10's, one who doesnt have his third xbow yet and the other doesnt have his second inferno yet. They are definitely putting up 74 stars in this 25 v 25, AND THEN THEYRE GONNA TAKE TURNS ON ME, ALL 3 OF EM. So they may put up 75 cuz im not maxed or close to max. All their lowers are gonna clean our 9's and 8's cuz theyre 9's are huge and th9 is a dead town hall today. So dont you engineers tell me that this is good for the game, I DONT WANNA HEAR IT. WE COULD STOP THE SMOKING MIRRORS NOW

[nerfedname]

I may add: badges don't mean they know how mm works either...a few had demonstrated that fact quite well.

LOL Got get those personal shots in at me, don't ya?

ahh the rabbit is out of the hat...we upgrade sensibly, they engineer...
I disagree with you Holps, a 9.5 is a lopsided base, just like a defenseless TH11. Many people accuse me of being an engineer, yet my clan would never accept a x.5 or defenseless account.

To be fair, the forum goat herd doesn't harshly screen or dictate the upgrade progression of the bases entering the clan. It's a fun and social side project if you will, and if an individual member of the clan goes to TH10 without dropping infernos the leaders of the clan are unlikely to even notice and it doesn't really make the FGH an "engineered clan."

And you won't find many here who agree with you that "a 9.5 is a lopsided base JUST like a defenseless TH11." Yes they are both edging towards "lopsided", but the disparity between the two is easily discernible.

[Azrial]

And yet, SC tweaks to the MM algorithm in a fashion that effectively renders a large portion .5s useless.... while allowing defenseless/lopsided bases to still thrive.

Hi cnaf,

In another thread that got buried in the suggestions forum you mentioned that you have a near max offense TH11 with TH9ish defenses in your clan.

You stated that he would be a liability to add to your clan wars. If he had a level 1 cannon would he be an asset? I'm not trolling you here this is a serious question

[OnyxDS]

I wouldn't disagree with your post re serious war clans and offence. I have been in many excellent war clans that would never accept a rushed base with low heroes. My view is very particular to proper engineered clans Warring at a decent level. I've seen people claiming that as we have and still have .5 bases in the forum clan then we are also guilty of it but a 9.5 base is a world away from a defenceless 11 with 35 heroes and a decent GW. That is generally a paid for base created solely to create a mismatch.
This is all personal preference and my view is a genuine concern for the games future not a selfish need for more green on my war log. I love wars and Clash. A 48 hour dead walkover serves nobody including the engineers in my view.

The last line "A 48 hour dead walkover serves nobody including the engineers in my view" is pretty much exactly something I said in the post I linked. I think where we differ slightly is putting the "blame" for engineering. My personal view is it's hopeless to try and say what is fair and what isn't - just look at the reactions to x.5s. There are serious clans out there who will no longer permit them because they are too big a disadvantage; and there are people responding in this thread along the lines of "aha - so you do engineer!".

The frustration for me is that SC haven't managed to improve the MM further. As a software engineer I can see it's very difficult getting it really good. But OTOH SC have left some pretty obvious problems in the MM unresolved for months and months - the classic example being March-October when they (mostly) ignored offence. Plenty of people on here were able to predict what would happen even before the March update went live; but SC didn't seem to fix it for 7 months.

[topbtm]

LOL Got get those personal shots in at me, don't ya?


To be fair, the forum goat herd doesn't harshly screen or dictate the upgrade progression of the bases entering the clan. It's a fun and social side project if you will, and if an individual member of the clan goes to TH10 without dropping infernos the leaders of the clan are unlikely to even notice and it doesn't really make the FGH an "engineered clan."

And you won't find many here who agree with you that "a 9.5 is a lopsided base JUST like a defenseless TH11." Yes they are both edging towards "lopsided", but the disparity between the two is easily discernible.

Actually it was not aimed at you at all. I just find you are biased, not uninformed.
And I don't care at all if anyone share my opinion. They can do anything they want...they will just suffer the consequences and come here after to complain.

Btw: it seems that SC shares my opinion...

[nerfedname]

Actually it was not aimed at you at all. I just find you are biased, not uninformed.

fair enough, my apologies. And I won't run from my bias, I'm no fan of engineering and think it to be unhealthy for the game long term. Engineers aren't necessarily "cheaters" by the letter of the law, or deserve bans or anything else crazy like that however (which sometimes gets bantered about on these forums), I'm just not a fan.

And I don't care at all if anyone share my opinion. They can do anything they want...they will just suffer the consequences and come here after to complain.

Btw: it seems that SC shares my opinion...

With regard to "SC sharing your opinion," you might be right in that the most recent changes to matchmaking seemingly nerfed THx.5 accounts more than it nerfed defenseless ones, which is crazy imo. But even so, the presence of less than a handful of .5s in the Forum Goat Herd (doing 50 man wars) doesn't make them an "engineered clan," which was mostly my point.

As an aside, I really do need to go war with the Goat Herd again sometime. Holps, when is the current war wrapping up?

[cnaf]

Hi cnaf,

In another thread that got buried in the suggestions forum you mentioned that you have a near max offense TH11 with TH9ish defenses in your clan.

You stated that he would be a liability to add to your clan wars. If he had a level 1 cannon would he be an asset? I'm not trolling you here this is a serious question

I think given the new MM tweaks, and the makeup of our clan- a defenseless TH11 would be an even bigger liability than the mate with TH9 defenses.

That new mate in question you are mentioning- still trying to convince him to get those defenses up.

ETA- very important to distinguish clan makeup there. Plenty of clans where that defenseless TH11 would do well, plenty of clans using them that currently are. Our clan, as it is currently constructed- is not conducive for it.

[deadnettle]

fair enough, my apologies. And I won't run from my bias, I'm no fan of engineering and think it to be unhealthy for the game long term. Engineers aren't necessarily "cheaters" by the letter of the law, or deserve bans or anything else crazy like that however (which sometimes gets bantered about on these forums), I'm just not a fan.

With regard to "SC sharing your opinion," you might be right in that the most recent changes to matchmaking seemingly nerfed THx.5 accounts more than it nerfed defenseless ones, which is crazy imo. But even so, the presence of less than a handful of .5s in the Forum Goat Herd (doing 50 man wars) doesn't make them an "engineered clan," which was mostly my point.

As an aside, I really do need to go war with the Goat Herd again sometime. Holps, when is the current war wrapping up?

In just under three hours, space available now☺