Supercell PLEASE find a solution to roster engineering

[ImmortalPekka]

ImmortalPekka do you or anyone in your clan max your heroes before you build or upgrade defenses at a new town hall level? Do you do this to skew the war weight?

Those answers are totally irrelevant. We all know that the OP, myself, and many others are talking specifically about clans that create junk TH3 accounts and put them in war just to lower their overall war weight. I am seeing moderators on this very thread defend the practice with the totally bogus claim that it may be a new player, or family member or some other ♥♥♥♥ like that. Obviously, it does not take much effort to level a TH3 to the next TH level at all, and someone that doesn't know how to play the game should not be in clan wars until they at least learn the basics. All these folks that put up arguments allowing these folks in war are probably doing it themselves. We all know why they are there, so lets not pretend they are in war for any other purpose. To sit on these threads and claim they are there for legitimate purposes is a total insult to our intelligence and absolutely removes all credibility they may have had.

Now I understand that occasionally, you may need to add some low or inactive base in clan wars to complete a full roster, but we all know that is NOT what the OP is referring to. A defenseless TH3 should not be participating in war with 10s and 11s. They are only there to game the system and we all know it. Stop pretending please.

[DavePorky]

Thanks for the response. Analogies can be tricky at times, especially when using them in Clash. I understand your point and I agree with the sentiment, but I stop short of saying it's on the same level as using a third party application, or a clear violation of the Terms of Service. I think it's important to separate the two, because words and semantics matter. IMO, roster engineering or having lopsided bases for the purposes of getting a better matchup is sandbagging.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbagging

For the record, I am against engineering (lopsided bases) in war, and I'm against roster engineering. I also do both of these things, because we are a casual adult clan who take wars seriously, and we were tired of going up against engineers. So we started doing it ourselves.

I believe engineering is bad for the game and will negatively impact the war community in the long term. I don't think it's the way the game was intended to be played. I am in favor of a war MM system which will reduce the effectiveness of roster engineering and lopsided bases.

I still think the below suggestions are best for updating the MM system (which is actually pretty good right now) and to help with defining what is engineering, and why it is potentially bad for the game.

====

Nerf’s suggestions for engineered bases / clans
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...17#post7861017

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...01#post7979801

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...82#post8067582

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...58#post8371458

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...24#post8371624

Billius discussion on the impact of Engineered clans and bases to the game
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...-and-Farm-Wars

Sumosloth on Engineering
https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...ut-Engineering

Noctaire's blog on Engineering
http://nocsclashjournal.blogspot.com...-how-best.html

Great reply, we certainly agree on the most part and I am going to read those threads after finishing this reply.

It's a shame you feel you need to do what you already know is unethical to stand a chance at victory. Personally I haven't chosen that route as I feel I would be adding to the problem and I don't feel 2 wrongs make a right. My warriors may feel otherwise (not that they have said so) but I plan to stick to the high road and just hope SC can find a way around the issue.

[rurunix]

The best solution is based some war algorithm on hero built

if you build a bk, your lowest mirror should be a th7
if you build a aq, your lowest mirror should be a th9
if you build a gw, your lowest mirror should be a th11


this is very simple solution to implement in any language and it will solve a huge percentage of defenseless base


but why would SC fix defenseless? They want profit don't they? they want money? Think about the amount of money spent on engineered base? It's not easy building a defenseless base, you barely get any shield from being attacked, you need to be constantly on if you want to loot so you can upgrade stuff, this is money in their pockets!

The only way to win against engineered clan if your clan doesn't have max th11 is to be even more engineered than other engineered clan.

Especially
how a defenseless th9 can easily beat a th8 with dragon bolteq without any planning
how a defenseless th10 can easily beat a th9 with max dragon and lv7 bolt and a rage spell (don't even need an eq), no planning or skills involved, drop the dragon and close the game, easy 3*
how a defenseless th11 can easily 2* th10 with max out dragon skillessly

[Deckard]

This argument has been beaten to death in the forums. It's obvious how extreme engineering removes attacking skill from the game. Attack planning and the skill it takes to war at the higher levels, and just in an even match, is one of the most important draws to this game. Farming, camaraderie in the clan system are a few others.

If everyone, including SC, can't see how removing attacking skill and planning from the game won't harm CoC's future then that is their loss.

[sinfiery]

Leveling up? Learning to play the game? Filling a clan slot so that four players aren't forced to sit out?

For all you know, that TH3 could be a family member who just began playing. It could also be a second account of a maxed out player who wants to build up another account. It could be an attempt to "game" the system as you suggested - that doesn't mean it'll work. That village is a normal TH3 with defenses built. There's nothing abnormal about it at all and there are many reasons it could be there.

However, I haven't seen any evidence that adding a TH3 at the bottom of the roster is giving clans an unfair advantage. In fact, it's been my understanding that a matchmaking re-balancing that was implemented a while ago gives less weight to the bottom of the roster when pairing up teams. I'd be willing to bet that team could have put a TH7 at the bottom and still have been seen as a suitable match to your clan.

This post made me sick to my stomach

[xXXCHRISXXx]

This post made me sick to my stomach

I didn't reply to it for a reason. Sharky still has my respect as a mod on this forum. To defend the account in question was uncalled for but understandable. Yeah it could be a new player, it could also be a filler account. But there is no question that the accounts(it was more than one) DO NOT belong in higher tier wars. The only reason they were included was for the sole purpose of lowering their OVERALL clan weight. Which is roster engineering and needs to be addressed by Supercell in some way.

[Rambletamble]

Sorta a cup half full/cup half empty lurker here, to solve this problem of roster engineering and or the unfair matchups being brought about by this and or other attempts would require some drastic changes on the rules of war as they stand. First, in most other aspects of coc a higher hall is punished for attacking a lower hall in cups/loot but not war.....Second, people should be allowed to war with who they want and when they want, lower halls need to war to get experience at it, but when used as a filler th3 in a th9-11 war really.....I am for limiting what th levels can war based on the highest th level in war, i know, for limiting participation but if i am in crystal i cant attack bronze or champs can i....So i think just like matchmaking in multiplayer has leaugues, so shouldnt war with higher leaugues giving better experience and loot and last i am in favor of a decline war match button(next...) but at a cost of clan experience that rises per war per push, clash on

[Milo123]

I didn't reply to it for a reason. Sharky still has my respect as a mod on this forum. To defend the account in question was uncalled for but understandable. Yeah it could be a new player, it could also be a filler account. But there is no question that the accounts(it was more than one) DO NOT belong in higher tier wars. The only reason they were included was for the sole purpose of lowering their OVERALL clan weight. Which is roster engineering and needs to be addressed by Supercell in some way.

I agree with you that roster engineering is ♥♥, I see it all the time. But you need to understand something. You claim the sole purpose is to lower the overall weight, this is not necessarily true.

You admit that it could be a filler, and it seems most certainly like this is the case in your scenario. The purpose of the filler is not to lower overall weight, the purpose is simply to fill an empty spot so that you don't have to sit anyone out.

Now, under the current matchmaking system, if you have to bring a filler in, who very well may not be using any attacks, strategically speaking, what would be the wiser choice? A defenseless TH3 that will either bring in another TH3 or possibly give you an advantage up top? Or a TH8 that will either match another TH8 that may be difficult for your bottom guys to clear or may just simply bring in a TH3 which will give you a disadvantage up top?

Spot filling and roster engineering are 2 different things, both of which need to be addressed.

[xXXCHRISXXx]

Sorta a cup half full/cup half empty lurker here, to solve this problem of roster engineering and or the unfair matchups being brought about by this and or other attempts would require some drastic changes on the rules of war as they stand. First, in most other aspects of coc a higher hall is punished for attacking a lower hall in cups/loot but not war.....Second, people should be allowed to war with who they want and when they want, lower halls need to war to get experience at it, but when used as a filler th3 in a th9-11 war really.....I am for limiting what th levels can war based on the highest th level in war, i know, for limiting participation but if i am in crystal i cant attack bronze or champs can i....So i think just like matchmaking in multiplayer has leaugues, so shouldnt war with higher leaugues giving better experience and loot and last i am in favor of a decline war match button(next...) but at a cost of clan experience that rises per war per push, clash on

Some interesting ideas there. Limiting the town hall spread is a viable option IMO for Supercell. There is no reason why lower town halls can't war with others similar to their respective town hall levels.

[Denton]

Limiting roster engineering is in the next update; SpAnser leaked it...