Supercell PLEASE find a solution to roster engineering

[OnyxDS]

Still fail to see how including a TH3 is a significant advantage.

What bases are a TH3 going to 3*?

How hard is it to 3* a max TH3?

Including a TH3 definitely has drawbacks &, as stated before, seems much more akin to a gambit than anything else

I simply don't understand this mindset...

The TH3 isn't an advantage, it's the effect it has on matching. If the last base on our side is a 50k defence weight TH8 and on the enemy side a 1k defenceless, then either will be 3*ed easily using low attackers and have no impact on the war. However if SC want the 2 total/average weights to match up, then the other clan needs an extra 50k defence weight somewhere else to get the total right. And when that's in the #1 spot and they are simply a TH higher then they have an advantage

[xXXCHRISXXx]

Still fail to see how including a TH3 is a significant advantage.

What bases are a TH3 going to 3*?

How hard is it to 3* a max TH3?

Including a TH3 definitely has drawbacks &, as stated before, seems much more akin to a gambit than anything else

I simply don't understand this mindset...

It's the extra high level town hall attacks they get from doing it. The th3 has no purpose other than to lower the overall weight of the clan. When you add enough or done correctly in a line up the advantage becomes significant. In my case, we're facing a th11&10th vs a th10&9 at the top. This is a 10 player war, if you're getting that kind of advantage I can only imagine how effective it becomes with more players.

[waxbaseee]

Any sort of engineering is just the same as Olympic doping.

thats modding, get your facts right

[waxbaseee]

It's the extra high level town hall attacks they get from doing it. The th3 has no purpose other than to lower the overall weight of the clan. When you add enough or done correctly in a line up the advantage becomes significant. In my case, we're facing a th11&10th vs a th10&9 at the top. This is a 10 player war, if you're getting that kind of advantage I can only imagine how effective it becomes with more players.

seriously?
it becomes LESS ADVANTAGEOUS the MORE the amount of people. think about it, the more people there are, the higher the weight of the entire clan, and the LOWER the chance of the th3 affecting it. with a higher clan weight, the clan matchup will be influenced by the outliers of a random th3.

with a lower matchup, the higher chance of that random th3 affecting MM, since it pulls the overall clan weight down with a larger effect.

imagine your clans weight is jus a bunch of data number, for eg mostly from 70-90k with 1-2 random th3s weighting 1k.

in a 10v10, you have 1,1,70,72,76,80,81,83,87,88. weight bases.

in a 20v20, you have 1,1,70,72,74,75,75,75,77,79,81,81,82,84,85,86,88,9 0,90,90.


as you can see, the effect of these th3s on larger wars is actually smaller, since the effect they have on the ENTIRE CLAN in larger wars are smaller.
intepret the data, simple math everyone can do.

[SoKEngineer]

Damm! Chris you got wrecked son, entertaining post but made my morning 👍🏻

[2222]

As always the best solution is for the MM to correctly account for the value of the stuff. And it's always better to do this before adding in other checks and balances or weird rules.

If we are warring as TH8-TH10, then it makes zero difference whether the bottom enemy base is a weakish TH8 (50k) or a 1-cannon job (0.5k). In either case it will be 3*ed first hit. However, at the moment, the latter case skews the other clans average weight downwards.

The easiest solution is to remove the check of the overall average clan weight that was added in March. Comparing the averages is nonsense - extra strength in one place rarely really balances up weakness elsewhere. Failing that exclude some of the bottom of the map from the average check. OR apply minima - if my clans lowest offence is around 50k, then all enemy bases are treated as having defence perhaps 10% lower than that as a minimum - because anything lower becomes irrelevant.



But the defenceless probably isn't at the "bottom" when it's doing the matchmaking - that is purely how it is displayed to us to help us pick targets. Ideally the offence and defence are completely separated, so that defenceless TH11 is actually at the top when processing the offence.



Which is exactly where we were before they started trying to check the averages. In 2015 you'd see the odd TH3/4 whatever filler to make up the numbers on the enemy side matched to a TH8 or whatever on our side. But there would be no compensating strength elsewhere.
I also remember seeing a few times clans that had clearly stacked the bottom because they believed the MM did look at averages - it was a waste of time and the rest of the roster still matched about as evenly as normal.

All very good points. I think at some point SC will just throw up their hands and make every base weigh at minimum what a max hall weighs one or two levels below. That isn't the best solution, but after many unsuccessful tweaks, I could see SC doing just that.

[2222]

The TH3 isn't an advantage, it's the effect it has on matching. If the last base on our side is a 50k defence weight TH8 and on the enemy side a 1k defenceless, then either will be 3*ed easily using low attackers and have no impact on the war. However if SC want the 2 total/average weights to match up, then the other clan needs an extra 50k defence weight somewhere else to get the total right. And when that's in the #1 spot and they are simply a TH higher then they have an advantage

This is exactly right and it is partially because of the ability to attack twice. The ability to attack twice means a clan doesn't need to use all of its attacks. A th8 or th3 are both getting 3 starred in every war and with 2 attacks per player it is easy to make up for not having two th8 attacks. So, clans go with the th3 rather than the th8 and they get the benefit of being stronger at higher hall levels.

[t1ny]

I think I'd rather see nerf threads then all these threads complaining about engineering

They're playing within the parameters of the game, and they've out strategised you within those parameters. There is absolutely nothing stopping you building a roster the same way.

From what I can see whatever you gain in war with an engineered base is offset by what happens to you in multiplayer, where a heavily engineered base is easy to crush.

I like the variety of base building strategies this offers. It'd be a much more boring game if things were too strict in that area.

[2222]

thats modding, get your facts right

Correct, doping is cheating like modding is cheating. They are against the rules. Engineering is like the Olympics allowing a short cut in a race and racers taking advantage of it. Some people would look down on the winners and some would say hey, the guy got a gold medal you were not smart for not taking advantage of the shortcut. It is up to SC to fix the shortcut.

[ChiefKevin200314]

TH 7 and below is way too much. Lower players have a right to be able to participate in war and attack as well. Maybe instead of making it TH7 and below, it can be made into TH4 or 3 and below, that's way better and fair as well.