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Thread: How to get Fair and Competitive Wars, and Avoid Engineered Clans

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MossackFonseca View Post
    I'm suprised to see you jump into this thread and trash it. Why not offer up your thoughts on what actually helps/hurts the mm? I think that a lot of people could benefit from a basic understanding of why they keep matching up with engineering clans.
    Thanks for the PM Mossack. First, I don't want to leave the impression that I was trashing your thread, that was not my intent and if it came off at that I apologize. On the contrary, I think the thread is rather good (as was the longer thread that you link to that involved many of the clan wars subforum frequent parties). My point was mostly what VikingChief stated:

    Quote Originally Posted by Vikingchief View Post
    I think his points were:

    1 there is not that much clashers cab do to avoid engineered clans, at least as far as we know for certain, based on data.
    2 the matchmaker should provide the wars we want, not leave it un to the players to engineer our clans to draw the wars we want

    i dont think he was trashing it for evil intent, he thought that it possibly to his knowledge container incorrect or speculative information, and he thought it was important he let that be known. He was just giving his take.
    There is no sure fire way to avoid engineered clans. They're ubiquitous at this point and even the most balanced clan with a small TH spread is going to risk encountering them periodically. And in my opinion, offering suggestions to the regular clans on how to avoid crazy ones is barking up the wrong tree.

    Quote Originally Posted by MossackFonseca View Post
    As far as your accusations of "speculation", the things that I wrote are not just random speculation, they're based upon my personal experience leading or being involved in hundreds of war searches, including back to back wars in 2 very different clans since the most recent mm update. I do not claim to have more knowledge than you on this subject, but mine is certainly on a par with yours at least.
    By "speculation" I meant the evidence of some of these suggestions working is anecdotal at best. With wars lasting 48 hours is just quite simply not possible for single clans to garner enough data to make statements like "bigger wars draw less engineers" because some engineered clans do large wars (UPH, NightmareGuild, etc.) while others do small ones (my clan has faced 10 man engineered clans before). In my clan, we get the impression that every time we bump up to 20 or 25 people, we see more engineers (likely because engineers are serious about war, and those serious about war can recruit more people to war) but I don't necessarily think equating bigger wars with more engineers is appropriate (and the fact that your observations indicate the opposite is a good reason why I won't make that statement). Random is random and I think engineered clans exist at all war sizes.

    Quote Originally Posted by MossackFonseca View Post
    Regarding jumping on people who complain about unfair wars: the whole point of this thread is to help people to understand WHY they're getting heavily engineered opponents.
    I definitely understand that, and it is often the case that a lot of people will post "check out this horrific mismatch" threads and then we find out they're running half their roster as THx.5s and stack a bunch of TH3s at the bottom of the clan. Those people are best ignored, they are doing their clan no favors when it comes to avoiding heavy engineers in matchmaking. But every now and again a REAL mismatch thread pops up, and watching people offer them a slew of suggestions to avoid engineers can be frustrating because the suggestions inevitably center around the person facing the mismatch tweaking their roster, cutting out their friends, putting some THx.5s at top, recruiting a TH11 from global (as if that's trivial), etc., etc.

    Basically people are telling the offended party "to avoid engineers you should engineer your roster and/or bases yourself" which is counterproductive and focusing entirely on the wrong aspect of the problem. In my opinion, it should NOT be incumbent upon the regular, everyday mostly-balanced clan to do ANYTHING with regard to their roster to avoid engineering mismatches. It's the engineers jacking up the matchmaker in the hunt for easy wins and causing all the problems, people should rally around SC fixing the algorithm first so that encountering engineered clans when you're not engineered yourself is far less likely. Add more checkboxes to the search, nix more matchups that involve TH3 roster stacking (when the other side has none), something, anything to help the regular clan out here without forcing them to become engineers themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by MossackFonseca View Post
    If the reason is stacking a bunch of th3/4 at the bottom of roster, at least they know why it's happening and can then decide whether to change. If it's b/c Cousin Vinny has a th4 and rest of clan is th9+, then they at least know what the issue is when they allow him to continue in war. If the issue is too many perma .5's, again, they know.
    definitely agree with this. If ones clan is lightly engineered, their thread decrying engineered when they encounter a heavily engineered clan falls flat.

    Quote Originally Posted by MossackFonseca View Post
    If they keep taking 4 hours to find a match, again, it helps to know that the search parameters expand slightly over time, and they can decide if that's perhaps causing bad matchups, or at least contributing to them. And I might change the wording up a bit, but it's important to know that winning a whole bunch gives you a significant war weight penalty, which can often pair you up with highly engineered clans even when your clan is not engineered at all and otherwise follows our recommendations.
    But it can also provide you with a matchup of a "Free CO" global cupcake clan that has half the roster no show. This gets back to why I said some of the items are speculative. If the search parameters widen over time (and Skrags has hounded SC enough to get some confirmation that it does in fact widen, albeit slightly), it widens on both sides. You're no more likely to get an "impossible" matchup than you are to get an "easy win." I think it would be hard to correlate longer search times with drawing engineered clans because of that. If an engineered clan that approximates your regular clan starts a war search at the same time as you, they'll match in 5 minutes; widening of the clan search parameters is mostly disconnected from that (letting the search run longer just leads to more uneven matchups, randomly in ones sides favor).
    ----------------------------

    Overall, my first post was mostly out of frustration of the slippery slope I see with many people telling non-engineered clans ways to engineer their clans to avoid engineers. It strikes me as counterproductive and putting the blame for jacked up matchmaking on the wrong party. In my clan, for example, yes I could cut our lone TH7 from our war roster (the rest of us are TH8 to TH10) as a means of reducing our chances of pulling engineered clans. He's been in the clan like a year, totally cool dude, good sport even when he doesn't get a TH7 counterpart to hit (we don't expect perfect TH for TH matching), but there is no way in hell I'm stonewalling him and leaving him out of wars just to reduce my chances of encountering engineered clans because, and I cannot stress this enough, I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO!! And that, for the most part is my point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerfedname View Post
    Thanks for the PM Mossack. First, I don't want to leave the impression that I was trashing your thread, that was not my intent and if it came off at that I apologize. On the contrary, I think the thread is rather good (as was the longer thread that you link to that involved many of the clan wars subforum frequent parties). My point was mostly what VikingChief stated:



    There is no sure fire way to avoid engineered clans. They're ubiquitous at this point and even the most balanced clan with a small TH spread is going to risk encountering them periodically. And in my opinion, offering suggestions to the regular clans on how to avoid crazy ones is barking up the wrong tree.


    By "speculation" I meant the evidence of some of these suggestions working is anecdotal at best. With wars lasting 48 hours is just quite simply not possible for single clans to garner enough data to make statements like "bigger wars draw less engineers" because some engineered clans do large wars (UPH, NightmareGuild, etc.) while others do small ones (my clan has faced 10 man engineered clans before). In my clan, we get the impression that every time we bump up to 20 or 25 people, we see more engineers (likely because engineers are serious about war, and those serious about war can recruit more people to war) but I don't necessarily think equating bigger wars with more engineers is appropriate (and the fact that your observations indicate the opposite is a good reason why I won't make that statement). Random is random and I think engineered clans exist at all war sizes.


    I definitely understand that, and it is often the case that a lot of people will post "check out this horrific mismatch" threads and then we find out they're running half their roster as THx.5s and stack a bunch of TH3s at the bottom of the clan. Those people are best ignored, they are doing their clan no favors when it comes to avoiding heavy engineers in matchmaking. But every now and again a REAL mismatch thread pops up, and watching people offer them a slew of suggestions to avoid engineers can be frustrating because the suggestions inevitably center around the person facing the mismatch tweaking their roster, cutting out their friends, putting some THx.5s at top, recruiting a TH11 from global (as if that's trivial), etc., etc.

    Basically people are telling the offended party "to avoid engineers you should engineer your roster and/or bases yourself" which is counterproductive and focusing entirely on the wrong aspect of the problem. In my opinion, it should NOT be incumbent upon the regular, everyday mostly-balanced clan to do ANYTHING with regard to their roster to avoid engineering mismatches. It's the engineers jacking up the matchmaker in the hunt for easy wins and causing all the problems, people should rally around SC fixing the algorithm first so that encountering engineered clans when you're not engineered yourself is far less likely. Add more checkboxes to the search, nix more matchups that involve TH3 roster stacking (when the other side has none), something, anything to help the regular clan out here without forcing them to become engineers themselves.


    definitely agree with this. If ones clan is lightly engineered, their thread decrying engineered when they encounter a heavily engineered clan falls flat.


    But it can also provide you with a matchup of a "Free CO" global cupcake clan that has half the roster no show. This gets back to why I said some of the items are speculative. If the search parameters widen over time (and Skrags has hounded SC enough to get some confirmation that it does in fact widen, albeit slightly), it widens on both sides. You're no more likely to get an "impossible" matchup than you are to get an "easy win." I think it would be hard to correlate longer search times with drawing engineered clans because of that. If an engineered clan that approximates your regular clan starts a war search at the same time as you, they'll match in 5 minutes; widening of the clan search parameters is mostly disconnected from that (letting the search run longer just leads to more uneven matchups, randomly in ones sides favor).
    ----------------------------

    Overall, my first post was mostly out of frustration of the slippery slope I see with many people telling non-engineered clans ways to engineer their clans to avoid engineers. It strikes me as counterproductive and putting the blame for jacked up matchmaking on the wrong party. In my clan, for example, yes I could cut our lone TH7 from our war roster (the rest of us are TH8 to TH10) as a means of reducing our chances of pulling engineered clans. He's been in the clan like a year, totally cool dude, good sport even when he doesn't get a TH7 counterpart to hit (we don't expect perfect TH for TH matching), but there is no way in hell I'm stonewalling him and leaving him out of wars just to reduce my chances of encountering engineered clans because, and I cannot stress this enough, I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO!! And that, for the most part is my point.
    Absolutely agree especially with the end of this post. We love all our members and everybody upgrades at their own pace. Im not cutting their throats and out of war because of their level. And I too am tired of the engineers posting and downplaying the situation, as they continue their 150 war winstreaks against clans that physically cant beat them. Theres a real problem out there, all these people complaining on the forums are not making it up. I will continue to pray that they fix, cuz we shouldnt have to worry about unfair matchups, only about attacking and managing the war at hand for a genuine win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nerfedname View Post
    Thanks for the PM Mossack. First, I don't want to leave the impression that I was trashing your thread, that was not my intent and if it came off at that I apologize. On the contrary, I think the thread is rather good (as was the longer thread that you link to that involved many of the clan wars subforum frequent parties).

    Overall, my first post was mostly out of frustration of the slippery slope I see with many people telling non-engineered clans ways to engineer their clans to avoid engineers. It strikes me as counterproductive and putting the blame for jacked up matchmaking on the wrong party. In my clan, for example, yes I could cut our lone TH7 from our war roster (the rest of us are TH8 to TH10) as a means of reducing our chances of pulling engineered clans. He's been in the clan like a year, totally cool dude, good sport even when he doesn't get a TH7 counterpart to hit (we don't expect perfect TH for TH matching), but there is no way in hell I'm stonewalling him and leaving him out of wars just to reduce my chances of encountering engineered clans because, and I cannot stress this enough, I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO!! And that, for the most part is my point.
    Great stuff overall, thanks for revisiting this. fyi, I updated the OP to only include things that I feel pretty strongly about, and took out some of the stuff about larger searches, more th11's, things like that, which have shown to have little correlation with bad matchups in my experience. fyi, I tried getting Prosper to update his OP for a couple of days in the other thread, but eventually I figured that it would be easier to just post a new one and maintain it, myself, in large part because of discussions like the ones we're having now. We certainly don't want to further-confuse people about war matchmaking.

    Regarding your th7 clan mate, if all other parameters are in line then, in my experience, one mild outlier like that is unlikely to skew your war match very much, especially if he has his defenses in line. IE, at 20-30 man war roster, with roughly 1/3 th10, 1/3 th9, 1/3 th8, and 1 well-developed th7 is still pretty balanced. It's not perfectly balanced, and it will slightly expand the war search parameters, but not in a crazy manner. In fact, my best streak ever of having just plain "fair" wars was when my clan was running 2-4 th9, 7-10 th8, 5-6 th7's, and a few high th6's. We always pulled an enemy with +/- one th9, and we even had one guy with a defenseless th8 (I only let him stay because he was a seriously good dude and could only 3* weaker 8's or, usually, th7's). This was for probably 20 wars, ranging in size from 15v15 to 25v25, so it's by no means conclusive, but I also was very strict about following all other protocols. Ie, no .5's, only that one guy had an unbalanced base, no long war searches, etc. It is the same in my current clan, just higher spread from max th8 up to high th11 and with no engineering of any kind there, and we rarely run into even mildly-engineered clans since the latest patch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daddylindo View Post
    Absolutely agree especially with the end of this post. We love all our members and everybody upgrades at their own pace. Im not cutting their throats and out of war because of their level. And I too am tired of the engineers posting and downplaying the situation, as they continue their 150 war winstreaks against clans that physically cant beat them. Theres a real problem out there, all these people complaining on the forums are not making it up. I will continue to pray that they fix, cuz we shouldnt have to worry about unfair matchups, only about attacking and managing the war at hand for a genuine win.
    I'm not trying to advocate a certain way of playing here at all, just providing information to people. If you choose to use that, great, if not, that's perfectly ok, too. If anything, I would definitely err on the side of being too inclusive for longtime and active clan members, even if that meant a few unbalanced wars. However, I think that if that did happen to me and I couldn't figure out what was going on, it would be nice to know "this is helping to cause these unbalanced wars". And by "better" I mean "extremely competitive wars" where you can't figure out who's going to win until the last few attacks. To be fair, a lot of people are pretty loose with their definition of "friends". If you met a bunch of th3's in global the other day and invited them to your clan, they're not your "friends", they're there to dump on the bottom of your war roster for (often) easier war matchups. If you have a th8-10 clan with one single th7 who has been active in your clan for a year, then I don't see how you can leave that guy out of wars tbh.

    For comparison, in my old clan, around 50% of our wars were decided by 3* and 10% decided on tie % when we had the defenseless th8 in there. We won around 75% of our wars. In current clan, over 75% of our wars are decided by 3* or less. We still have around a 75% win ratio, but almost every war is intensely competitive. It's awesome, it's fun, and I can't help but think that not having that one crazy extreme outlier helped us to more regularly get even matchups.
    Last edited by MossackFonseca; December 29th, 2016 at 09:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MossackFonseca View Post
    I'm not trying to advocate a certain way of playing here at all, just providing information to people. If you choose to use that, great, if not, that's perfectly ok, too. If anything, I would definitely err on the side of being too inclusive for longtime and active clan members, even if that meant a few unbalanced wars. However, I think that if that did happen to me and I couldn't figure out what was going on, it would be nice to know "this is helping to cause these unbalanced wars". And by "better" I mean "extremely competitive wars" where you can't figure out who's going to win until the last few attacks. To be fair, a lot of people are pretty loose with their definition of "friends". If you met a bunch of th3's in global the other day and invited them to your clan, they're not your "friends", they're there to dump on the bottom of your war roster for (often) easier war matchups. If you have a th8-10 clan with one single th7 who has been active in your clan for a year, then I don't see how you can leave that guy out of wars tbh.

    For comparison, in my old clan, around 50% of our wars were decided by 3* and 10% decided on tie % when we had the defenseless th8 in there. We won around 75% of our wars. In current clan, over 75% of our wars are decided by 3* or less. We still have around a 75% win ratio, but almost every war is intensely competitive. It's awesome, it's fun, and I can't help but think that not having that one crazy extreme outlier helped us to more regularly get even matchups.
    Everyone in our clan we know, and a couple of us made smaller accounts like th7's and 8's so we can control the tempo of the war. We work from bottom to top, so we dont wanna wait hours for lower people that we dont know to attack. We never had th3's until over a month ago, we had a war ranging from th11-th7. It was a 25 v 25, we had 1 th11 who was not maxed, and then 3 th10's, one who was strong and then two medium-weaker th10's with level 2 and level 1 infernos, both with mid 20/20 heroes. The opponent had 2 th11's, both with max heroes. Then they had 3 th10's with monster heroes. And then they 3 super 9.5's. And then all of their th9's had huge heroes and all had very strong walls!! It was the most egregious matchup ever. We couldnt win. We opened up our clan for many to come look. And then naturally, we had engineers coming and then instigating arguments with us that we coulda won. The point of the matter was, we had to not only be perfect, but also needed them to have disconnects and messups. And thats where i have the problem. Nobody should have such an advantage. And there have been other matchups that were unfair. Needs to be fixed. And thats why i keep mentioning some sort of parameter setup for war eligibility, cuz it would only setup wars that can be nothing BUT fair. But all the engineers start crying "freedom to play how you want". It's nonsense now.

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    i'd say some of these ideas are definitely speculation.
    here's some data for you:
    we are moderately engineered (check my post history)
    current 20v20
    they have 6 th11, all infernos n eagles, various state of upgrade. normal balanced
    they have 5 th 10, all infernos, various state of upgrade. normal balanced
    they have 9 th 9. 7 have bows, various state of upgrade. normal balanced. 2 do not have bows, but they look very new 9's. lvl 2 and lvl 3 queen for example.

    we have th 11 - th 9, various states of max, .5, defenseless, etc..

    they did nothing wrong per OP's theory
    idea 1-3, check.
    idea 4, they have win streak of 6. not too abnormal
    idea 5, no idea. not going to ask.

    our last war was very similar too.

    for my recent data .. theory busted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daddylindo View Post
    Everyone in our clan we know, and a couple of us made smaller accounts like th7's and 8's so we can control the tempo of the war. We work from bottom to top, so we dont wanna wait hours for lower people that we dont know to attack. We never had th3's until over a month ago, we had a war ranging from th11-th7. It was a 25 v 25, we had 1 th11 who was not maxed, and then 3 th10's, one who was strong and then two medium-weaker th10's with level 2 and level 1 infernos, both with mid 20/20 heroes. The opponent had 2 th11's, both with max heroes. Then they had 3 th10's with monster heroes. And then they 3 super 9.5's. And then all of their th9's had huge heroes and all had very strong walls!! It was the most egregious matchup ever. We couldnt win. We opened up our clan for many to come look. And then naturally, we had engineers coming and then instigating arguments with us that we coulda won. The point of the matter was, we had to not only be perfect, but also needed them to have disconnects and messups. And thats where i have the problem. Nobody should have such an advantage. And there have been other matchups that were unfair. Needs to be fixed. And thats why i keep mentioning some sort of parameter setup for war eligibility, cuz it would only setup wars that can be nothing BUT fair. But all the engineers start crying "freedom to play how you want". It's nonsense now.
    I think that it's important that we focus on things that are possible for us to control. You can control hero levels obviously, but asking SC to punish people with high level heroes is a pipe dream. They get a huge revenue from war-focused players gemming heroes, it's, frankly, unreasonable to ask them to stop that behavior. From what I'm hearing you had 1 th11 and 2 th10, your opponent had 2 th11, 3th10, and 3 more (max offense?) 9.5. Or is a super 9.5 an 11 with just warden but nothing else? So, what we have is:

    good guys:
    1 th11
    2 th10

    bad guys:
    2 th11
    3 th10
    3 th 9.5

    That's a ridiculous matchup, no doubt. It's possible it was just bad luck, but perhaps not. One thing that I would say is that with such a wide spread you were courting disaster, but there might have been other contributing factors. I have a couple of questions for you:

    1. how many th7 did your roster have? 1? 10?
    2. how well-developed were the th7's? What was lowest defensive weight on it? A bunch of low-ish weight th7's mixed with an 11 will pair you up with engineers pretty regularly I'd expect.
    3. how many 8.5/9.5 did you have on war roster?
    4. what was your recent war record like at the time? I know that you guys win about 90% of your wars.
    5. how long did war search take?

    You don't need to answer those questions here, but rather look at them for yourself and decide what you think might have contributed to your bad matchup. And, as far as hero levels go, I would say that hero levels are typically more-predicitive of success in war than th levels. My clan usually is outmatched by at least 1 th11, our last 3 wars in fact have been 1-2, 1-3, now 1-2 again, yet our total hero levels have been competitive every time, and we won those first 2 "mismatches". I'd go far as to say that bringing low level heroes into war is like bringing a knife to a gunfight: if you're really good with the knife then you might win some of the time, but you've got a good chance of losing.
    Last edited by MossackFonseca; December 29th, 2016 at 10:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nerfedname View Post
    If the search parameters widen over time (and Skrags has hounded SC enough to get some confirmation that it does in fact widen, albeit slightly), it widens on both sides. You're no more likely to get an "impossible" matchup than you are to get an "easy win."
    Assumption alert: you are assuming that there is a symmetric distribution of candidates on both sides, but if your clan is unusual enough (compared to the candidates in the initial pool) that no matches are found before the parameters expand, that assumption may not be warranted. A small change of the search parameters may then add many more candidates on one side and relatively few on the other, especially if your clan is much weaker or much stronger.

    If you have a weird lineup, and always get good matches, keep doing it. If you always get bad matches, it doesn't seem like a giant leap to the conclusion that perhaps changing something (other than one's forum post count) is worth trying...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MossackFonseca View Post
    I think that it's important that we focus on things that are possible for us to control. You can control hero levels obviously, but asking SC to punish people with high level heroes is a pipe dream. They get a huge revenue from war-focused players gemming heroes, it's, frankly, unreasonable to ask them to stop that behavior. From what I'm hearing you had 1 th11 and 2 th10, your opponent had 2 th11, 3th10, and 3 more (max offense?) 9.5. Or is a super 9.5 an 11 with just warden but nothing else? So, what we have is:

    good guys:
    1 th11
    2 th10

    bad guys:
    2 th11
    3 th10
    3 th 9.5

    That's a ridiculous matchup, no doubt. It's possible it was just bad luck, but perhaps not. One thing that I would say is that with such a wide spread you were courting disaster, but there might have been other contributing factors. I have a couple of questions for you:

    1. how many th7 did your roster have? 1? 10?
    2. how well-developed were the th7's? What was lowest defensive weight on it? A bunch of low-ish weight th7's mixed with an 11 will pair you up with engineers pretty regularly I'd expect.
    3. how many 8.5/9.5 did you have on war roster?
    4. what was your recent war record like at the time? I know that you guys win about 90% of your wars.
    5. how long did war search take?

    You don't need to answer those questions here, but rather look at them for yourself and decide what you think might have contributed to your bad matchup. And, as far as hero levels go, I would say that hero levels are typically more-predicitive of success in war than th levels. My clan usually is outmatched by at least 1 th11, our last 3 wars in fact have been 1-2, 1-3, now 1-2 again, yet our total hero levels have been competitive every time, and we won those first 2 "mismatches". I'd go far as to say that bringing low level heroes into war is like bringing a knife to a gunfight: if you're really good with the knife then you might win some of the time, but you've got a good chance of losing.
    We had 3 th10's. 1 th11. Then about 13 or 14 th9. No .5's. All they had to do was have their number 1 clean our number 2, then their num 2 cleaned 3 and 4. Then they had very strong th10's, one of them cleaned our 5 who had level 1 infernos. The rest of the th9's stood no chance against the other th10's and super 9.5's. I dont remember ezactly how many 8's and 7's we had. But thats when someone recommended to us to put a couple junk th3's in our lineup, to hedge against those kind of wars. I hate doing it, and we havent been putting all 3 in. We usually just put 1. But i dont wanna do it. I want everybody who's in the war to be a participant and feel a purpose in the war. But once again, the engineers and exploiters ruin the fun. So, my problem isnt SC, its the players. And i dont expect them to mess with heroes. Let people gem and max all they want, just stipulate that they must purchase everything from the shop once they hit a certain level to be war eligible. That to me makes perfect sense that the mm cant help BUT to get better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daddylindo View Post
    We had 3 th10's. 1 th11. Then about 13 or 14 th9. No .5's. All they had to do was have their number 1 clean our number 2, then their num 2 cleaned 3 and 4. Then they had very strong th10's, one of them cleaned our 5 who had level 1 infernos. The rest of the th9's stood no chance against the other th10's and super 9.5's. I dont remember ezactly how many 8's and 7's we had. But thats when someone recommended to us to put a couple junk th3's in our lineup, to hedge against those kind of wars. I hate doing it, and we havent been putting all 3 in. We usually just put 1. But i dont wanna do it. I want everybody who's in the war to be a participant and feel a purpose in the war. But once again, the engineers and exploiters ruin the fun. So, my problem isnt SC, its the players. And i dont expect them to mess with heroes. Let people gem and max all they want, just stipulate that they must purchase everything from the shop once they hit a certain level to be war eligible. That to me makes perfect sense that the mm cant help BUT to get better.
    Putting some th3 into the bottom of your roster will get your more "easy" matchups, but it will also get you more "tough" matchups if that makes sense. ie, more wars that are won or lost before the war even starts. At least to, changing your entire war roster b/c of one war matchup is an odd strategy though. And, keep in mind that if you put even one th3 in there, then you are an engineered clan...and there are a lot of clans that you could now potentially match up with that will have a bigger advantage over you than that one clan did that one time.

    edit: I don't understand your post. Your 5 had infernos? So you have 1 th11 and 4 th10? Regardless, it doesn't matter. You had one bad war and decided to engineer your war roster forever after that. Whose fault is that? If you didn't want to do that then there are a ton of other clans out there that don't do stuff like that, or you could work to convince your clanmates that they don't need to do that ♥♥♥♥ to win at war.

    You can look up reasons for unbalanced wars if you wish, and you can apply that information or not as you wish, but don't be upset if you have a lot of uneven and boring wars when you engineer.
    Last edited by MossackFonseca; December 29th, 2016 at 11:12 PM.

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