Is [5,0,0] -> [10,0,0] -> [30,30,0] -> [40,40,20] for hero progression not a relic?

[DarthPat]

I think an adjustment to upgrade cost and times for heros would help tremendously.
I've been TH9 since the October update. Since I enjoy participating in Clan wars, I don't enjoy just dedicating all my game play to farming and keeping heros continuously upgrading...
But, on the other hand, it's almost necessary to be competitive at the TH9 level in war.
I think a small reduction in hero upgrade costs and times would make a huge difference in the TH9 experience. Even the slightest reduction would shave lots of time off the completion.

[Rambletamble]

Op, as i am in the grind focusing on heroes and walls i would be patient, with TH 11 in a 'mess' supposedly offensively, one of the frequent requests seen on these forums is add hero levels. What then might happen as what goes on higher eventually trickles down lower. Anyway, good thread, lots of info on the grind at nine....

[CasualPleb]

Heroes are the most importnat part of this game if they were easy to accomplish maxing them then I would argue they shouldn't have as much of an impact on attacks as they do. If it was easy to max heroes then everyones bases would basically be the same. Heroes are what separate a lot of players. One of my favorite Sean Connery quotes from a movie: "Losers (or whiners) complain about doing their best, winners go home a f*** the prom queen." You can complain about it being intimidating or you can buckle down and tackle the task at hand in full force, IT's YOUR CHOICE, NOT SUPERCELLS.

If overall balance is perfect then changing hero levels would throw a lot of this out of whack.

It is not SC job to teach us how to understand and play every little aspect of this game. It is each players responsibility to decide the strategy they will use to go about upgrading their base. It's not SC fault if you fail to realize the importance of heroes and neglect them because you like them for raiding.

1. E.g. Distributing levels or whatever wouldn't really make it easier to max heroes. It would just make it easier on the respective town hall since there wouldn't so many hero levels at once as there are now on TH9.

2. The levels wouldn't need to be as low to fit the average player's progression with the defenses.

3. "If overall balance is perfect then changing hero levels would throw a lot of this out of whack."
- that doesn't mean that there isn't an issue or whatever. It simply means it's even harder to change stuff without destroying something else.

4. "It is not SC job to teach us how to understand and play every little aspect of this game. "
- it obviously isn't. But they clearly teach you play differently up until TH9, or let's say: it simply doesn't matter how you play.
- Game design is teaching us too much, you know? I don't think they intended Clash to be about calculating as many numbers as you can find on the wiki to "realize the importance" of whatever.

5."It's not SC fault if you fail to realize the importance of heroes and neglect them because you like them for raiding."
- you mean the "importance of [maxing] heroes" asap, because you clearly expect to have maxed everything else far too quick.
- You can't grasp the importance being new to the game, without even knowing and experiencing the difference between lower and higher hero levels yourself. And if it doesn't happen that way, you'd have to go read wikis and calculate all day again.
- Since the latter part can't be the point of this game, it's obvious that the game has to "teach" it. And it doesn't have to do it by saying "Hey Chief, go and focus on your heroes, they take a ♥♥♥♥ ton of time to max out", they can easily teach it by the steady flow of 8 prior town hall levels. And again, they did so wrong, at least for CoC in 2016.

[HumptyGoblin]

Some things we just have to learn the hard way lol. I remember walls taking the longest for me at 9 but really there wasn't much of a gap between the completion of lab and walls. Heroes were done first but I gemmed a good portion of their upgrading time because I wanted to war.

The imbalance started at 8. My king/defenses/walls were completed long before the lab upgrades. I went to 9 with a fair amount of lab work undone and my troops suffered in war for awhile. The game is all about choices. Hardcore farmers are going to run into some kind of imbalance at some point, and so will casuals. Nobody says everything has to be completed in similar timeframes.

Maxed heroes aren't necessary at 9 to be a dominant attacker. If a person can't grind heroes past 20 they aren't going to have any fun grinding at TH 10. If the biggest concern is attrition due to intimidating grinds, well let 9 be that point. Either shy away from the upgrade button on the TH and enjoy a happy, well-balanced career @9 or keep on a goin and be prepared for more sufferin! This whole game is about grinding, for those who haven't noticed lol. Clans and these forums are good sources of information from experienced players. All anybody has to do is research, there is plenty of good and bad advice everywhere

[Gecko74]

I agree with your point. Heroes do seem a bit excessive at TH9. I raised this before and was shot down by people saying 'you can't take hero levels away'.

I suspect if they made the game from scratch then hero levels would probably be 20/20 for TH9, 30/30 for th10 and 40/40 for th11 (warden seem easy as an elixir upgrade).

Long term, to balance things out a bit I guess some things could be done but they would all cost Supercell in lost revenue or create big problems with TH9 and above who have already been through the grind

1 hero costs could be reduced along with the hp/dps stats and upgrade times to make it easier to get to 30/30 - complaints would pour in and some people would quit

2 create a ceiling for 20/20 heroes at TH9 but leave the th9 with existing high heroes alone and the same for th10 - unfair advantage for older TH9 who would never upgrade

3 make a huge incentive for people to move up if they have strong heroes - potential lost revenue for Supercell and some still wouldn't upgrade

4 force them up by giving them an auto upgrade and free town hall for the next level - this forum would go into meltdown and it would signal the end of the world.

I don't think any of the above are acceptable solutions and I can't think of a way to level it out but aiming for 20/20 heroes at TH9 seems about right to both enjoy the troops and keep upgrades ticking over.

[S2G047]

I was at 15/15 when I was near done with my TH9 upgrades.
Lab on the other hand did not finish even when heroes were already at 30/30 and TH was also upgraded to 10.
This I achieved by rushing my lab at TH8.
Also my journey from 15/15 to 30/30 was the most fun I had in game since DE was my only concern.
I used Giant Wiz or Giant Pekka army to get to the core and also 2 drills. This kind of storage raiding where I didnt care for gold and elixir was lot of fun.
I had my daily DE targets to keep both heroes upgrading.
As weekly DE requirements increased so did my skill.

So my advice to TH9 players is that its ok to be only working on heroes...take a break from war for 3-4 months and keep working for the DE grind, its quite an adventure. And is also worth it when its done. Now in TH10 all of my TH9 strategies dont work, I am collector raiding and my heroes will be at 40/40 in 2-3 months. They help a lot both in wars and farming.

[andrgin]

So here is my opinion:

TH7: king lvl5 and purple walls are OK

TH8: king lvl10 and skulls are OK

TH9: heroes should be max at lvl20 and legos only

TH10: heroes are OK, but there should be legos only

TH11: There should be king/queen lvl50 and warden should cost double the amount of elixir.

The problem is: You cant take away levels for players that have already upgraded them, so we will stick with 30/30 causing broken balancing at th9 forever.
For the warden the problem is that elixir storages are smaller than de storages. A possibility would be to nerf the warden down half the way and adjust the cost so they max out at lvl40 cutting upgrade time in half. The problem is only that maxing your warden is a bit frustrating as you dont see his strength directly. It is more a constant buff for everything.

The only thing that SC could do is making 10 more hero levels at th11 and counter that with a few more defense levels and levels to air troops.

[WookieFloyd]

1. E.g. Distributing levels or whatever wouldn't really make it easier to max heroes. It would just make it easier on the respective town hall since there wouldn't so many hero levels at once as there are now on TH9.

2. The levels wouldn't need to be as low to fit the average player's progression with the defenses.

3. "If overall balance is perfect then changing hero levels would throw a lot of this out of whack."
- that doesn't mean that there isn't an issue or whatever. It simply means it's even harder to change stuff without destroying something else.

4. "It is not SC job to teach us how to understand and play every little aspect of this game. "
- it obviously isn't. But they clearly teach you play differently up until TH9, or let's say: it simply doesn't matter how you play.
- Game design is teaching us too much, you know? I don't think they intended Clash to be about calculating as many numbers as you can find on the wiki to "realize the importance" of whatever.

5."It's not SC fault if you fail to realize the importance of heroes and neglect them because you like them for raiding."
- you mean the "importance of [maxing] heroes" asap, because you clearly expect to have maxed everything else far too quick.
- You can't grasp the importance being new to the game, without even knowing and experiencing the difference between lower and higher hero levels yourself. And if it doesn't happen that way, you'd have to go read wikis and calculate all day again.
- Since the latter part can't be the point of this game, it's obvious that the game has to "teach" it. And it doesn't have to do it by saying "Hey Chief, go and focus on your heroes, they take a ♥♥♥♥ ton of time to max out", they can easily teach it by the steady flow of 8 prior town hall levels. And again, they did so wrong, at least for CoC in 2016.

1. th10 is already a major grind as it is. There are a number of posts on the forums recently about new th10s discussing their struggles with the initial elixir grind and how to push through it. There are also a lot of troop and spell upgrades in the lab at th10 as well that add to the grind. Yet you want to add more hero levels at th10 because you feel there are too many at th9. Everything at th10 costs like 5 mil plus with a lot of the upgrades pushing 7 mil and at th9 things are like 2-5 mil. Personally I would much rather push through some extra hero levels when things are still relatively cheap compared to th10 where things jump in price.

2. A lot of average or casual players don't care so much about maxing their heros per th level, they just play the way they want and have fun with it. So why do we need to lower to amount of hero levels at th9 if they don't really care that much? (generalizing a bit)

3. If balance is fine at th9 then I don't really see there being an issue.

4. SC doesn't really tell you anything about how to play the game other than how to upgrade and build buildings, troops, and spells and then how to search for bases to attack. You don't have to go crunch numbers on the coc wiki to see the importance of heros and how upgrading them helps. You can see by the sheer volume of DE and time needed to upgrade them that they are important, but people gravitate towards the quick and easy stuff instead.

5. You don't even need to max heros asap, you just need to always be working on them. I think we already established that you don't have to get your heroes to 30 before leaving th9. I know plenty of people that are th10s without 30s but that doesn't mean that aren't still always trying to upgrade them as much as possible. Everyone has their own amount of time they can invest into the game. Lots of people have had no trouble maxing their heroes out at th9 before all their other stuff was done, so why should we change the hero levels if some people can and some people can't, seems pretty fair to me. I do understand the difference between low and high level heros as I have two accounts and trust me I wish my little account had high level heros but it doesn't because I only got enough time to raid for one account. SC doesn't need to teach us anything, that's what your clan mates are for, the forums, youtube, global chat. I mean there is endless resources on strategy tips for this game. Plus I am pretty sure some of the loading screen tips talk about heroes and their awesome abilities, but I could be wrong on this.


Basically what it boils down to for me is that I see no reason to change it. Some people are able to get heroes to 30 before maxing out everything else at th9 and some can't, and that seems fair to me. I don't know what the split is as far as who can and who can't but mostly what it boils down to is allotted time spent playing the game. Heroes are the money makers for SC and they get a lot of casual and hardcore players to gem hero upgrades so that they can keep warring and keep raiding with them, and without that money coming in there is no game. A lot of casual players don't even make it to th10 regardless of the hero grind or not, they realize the time and energy involved with continuing on just in terms of building your base up is an investment. So I see no reason to change it just because some people can't accomplish the goal with the natural progression of their base. Natural progression of your base in my eyes is just how you saw fit to upgrade things in a particular order. You chose defenses we chose heroes.

[Klavious]

1. th10 is already a major grind as it is. There are a number of posts on the forums recently about new th10s discussing their struggles with the initial elixir grind and how to push through it. There are also a lot of troop and spell upgrades in the lab at th10 as well that add to the grind. Yet you want to add more hero levels at th10 because you feel there are too many at th9. Everything at th10 costs like 5 mil plus with a lot of the upgrades pushing 7 mil and at th9 things are like 2-5 mil. Personally I would much rather push through some extra hero levels when things are still relatively cheap compared to th10 where things jump in price.

I will echo this. I went to TH10 with a completed TH9 lab. This was before Baby Dragons and just days before Goblins 6 came to TH9 so they got added to TH10 lab time.

I had 23 AQ, 25 BK.

All my buildings are done
The AQ is 40
The BK is going to 36 and will be going to 37 after he wakes and does his 2 war attacks as I'm sitting on 200K DE while he sleeps

My lab on the other hand still has 121 Days left to max it out. This despite not being dark for more than 6 hours total since it came on line at TH10.

When I anticipate finishing my BK I will still have more than 3 months of lab upgrades that will get pushed to TH11.

[CoraBiscuit]

As many have said, the goose is already cooked. The only thing they can do to make walls and heroes easier (which I sincerely hope they don't because I believe it's an accomplishment to earn them) is to make them cheaper. when they make archer towers and teslas and cannons a mil or a mil and a half cheaper it kinda sucks. "Hey I already had all these maxed out and now their cheaper for the next guys, that kinda sucks". Now multiply that by 300 wall pieces. If you made lvl 9 and 10 walls even 1 million cheaper each, you're talking about a 600 MILLION resource reduction in the cost of walls. And if you're supercell, that translates to a lot of dollar signs. If you're a maxed out 9 or 10, that's going to leave a nasty taste in your mouth because now "everybody" will have what you worked so hard for. The same analogy goes for heroes. If they made heroes cheaper that means less money for SC and less of a rewarding feeling for high level heroes. I honestly just don't see a plausible solution.