Information assimilation delay – change in match making

[topbtm]

At this moment, it is interesting to read the conflicting threads dealing with engineered bases. In fact, I find it hilarious. It is in these kinds of threads that one can really distinguish posters with actual MM knowledge and those who don’t.

Engineered (lopsided) bases are defenseless bases, low defense bases and x.5 bases, which people are using in order to manipulate the MM. That was possible due to the fact that offense strength used to be weighted less in MM algorithm (between March and October 2016 only). People maxed their offense while keeping their defense low, and that provided them with undeniable advantage in war, as they are ‘matched’ with weaker clans.
This all changed in the October update. There is no doubt that the match making had been changed to deal with those lopsided bases as SC had promised. And engineers are quick to realize that, since they have lopsided bases in their wars…

The quote below is typically what had been observed by an engineer clan. There are several other posters with lopsided bases corroborating this.

First match after update we matched almost instantly. Within 10 minutes anyways. Only problem is while our lineup contains 5 th 9 defense but close to max th10 offense bases (troop wise, heros are lower than max th9), we were paired against 9 max th10s. Our complete lineup is 6 th11s, 1 th.5, 5 9.5s, rest are th9s. We were matched against 5 th11s, 9 near max th10s and rat are mixed th9s with 2 th8s 1 th7 and 1 th3. What kind of algorithm are you guys running to come up with this kind of match. The only thing I can think of is you have decided that .5s are dead and as soon as you upgrade ur th you will match a th your level regardless of what level it is defensively. This is absolutely ridiculous supercell. At least tell us what your plans are as far as matchmaking so we can plan and not be surprised when we match a clan full of max bases!! Communication is all I ask. I'm not complaining about killing .5s, evens the playing field but come on, don't be vague about what's coming and then just drop ♥♥♥♥ on us. Another example is the miner nerf. Don't say anything and just nerf them. Great way to keep your customer base happy! Off my rant now.

Even the Blombardo who engineered his clan to get 90 straight perfect scores is fuming…

…
…I figured out how the game was played... I figured out the exact numerical system used to make wars match... I figured out how to engineer accounts so that our clan would not only NEVER loose -- but would always win
Now that I have spent real cash gemming up a few troops (miners for example) and spent a year carefully crafting almost 30 accounts to be great in war -- they change the entire system around and have basically made ALL my accounts variations of useless to garbage...
They have literally changed the game completely - everything I was doing and everything I have learned (figured out) has been erase from the board and changed...
.

Or even one of the most engineered clans out there, (Winterfell Gods #8CYYVRJ8) - ranked #4 on the best wins streak with 141 – stopped warring, presumely to protect its win streak, now that their engineered bases are useless…

There are more discussion about this in those threads below:
https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...th-our-5-s-now
https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...ar-matchmaking


Yet we still get threads complaining about engineered bases, like this thread:

https://forum.supercell.com/showthread.php/1318425-Non-fair-play-cheat-clans-engineered-war-bases

https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...he-use-of-them


What we can easily determine is those threads are all started by non-engineered players. They typically have balanced or maxxed bases and therefore, would not have immediately see the MM change impact in their war - unless, of course, if they face an engineered clan. Since engineered clans are a tiny minority out there, these maxxers likely did not have the chance to yet meet many engineered clans since the October update, and therefore could not have detected the recent trend. As a result, in the meantime, they keep the engineer complains up with outdated info.

BTW, lets not forget the fact that even before the October update, many complaints about engineer bases are from clashers with low understanding about how the MM really works.

TLDR: Anyway, this is an interesting time as both pro-engineers and anti-engineers are complaining about the match making. And that, I think, is the proof that SC just achieved its objective of getting fair wars.

[Clashheadz]

There is only one way to truly engineer accounts for war.

[OnyxDS]

There is only one way to truly engineer accounts for war.

And that is...?

[Clashheadz]

And that is...?

A secret 10/10

[OnyxDS]

A secret 10/10

A bit of a pointless post then really. Not much point posting on the forum if you're only here to be obnoxious. Especially when it doesn't seem true - I can think of more than one way to engineer that works still.

@OP - it'll be months until the message gets through. At least. If you remember pre-March, people were still using x.5s and defenceless. They may have worked in 2014, but they got visibly fixed in the first half of 2015 (can't remember exactly when), but almost a year later people were still using them.

[Clashheadz]

A bit of a pointless post then really. Not much point posting on the forum if you're only here to be obnoxious. Especially when it doesn't seem true - I can think of more than one way to engineer that works still.

@OP - it'll be months until the message gets through. At least. If you remember pre-March, people were still using x.5s and defenceless. They may have worked in 2014, but they got visibly fixed in the first half of 2015 (can't remember exactly when), but almost a year later people were still using them.

What are your ways

[topbtm]

A bit of a pointless post then really. Not much point posting on the forum if you're only here to be obnoxious. Especially when it doesn't seem true - I can think of more than one way to engineer that works still.

@OP - it'll be months until the message gets through. At least. If you remember pre-March, people were still using x.5s and defenceless. They may have worked in 2014, but they got visibly fixed in the first half of 2015 (can't remember exactly when), but almost a year later people were still using them.

Yeah, engineered bases are a liability now AND before March, yet I doubt many people that understand that...

[HumptyGoblin]

Yeah, engineered bases are a liability now AND before March, yet I doubt many people that understand that...

Old habits are hard to break
People are still giving advice on these "old and outdated" ideas for upgrades as well, though it isn't a bad direction to go anyway.

A couple points:

I agree that complaining from both sides of the engineering battle is a good indicator of MM improving. I think I would give more credibility to the engineering side when it comes to determining war mismatches, they have generally done more investigating whereas every Tom, ♥♥♥♥ & harry will come on here complaining when they don't have equal numbers of TH's. However, even the engineers are biased and untruthful at times. Like our resident self-proclaimed expert Blombardo, in your he quote says he reached a point where he can not only guarantee not losing every time, but winning every time. A look at his war log reveals the truth.

I'm not going to get too excited yet tho, it's still early. One thing people have to realize is that there is always going to be exceptions and even Steven matchups are not always going to happen, even under ideal circumstances. I think the single thing that got everybody worked up about these mismatches is the win streak stat on the clan description.

[Skrags]

Really great thread Topbtm. Some very valid points. From a personal point of view, and being in a clan without engineered bases, and I am certainly 'more' interested in reading the feedback on the forums from engineers, and how their matches are being affected.
As pointed out, I still think it's too early to reach valid conclusions, because it takes time to adjust roster make ups.

Playing Devil's advocate for the masses, I think it's human nature to feel let down/frustrated when you see a defenceless TH11 at the bottom of an opponents roster, without knowing the implications of Offensive weight (and therefore true weight) of that base. I'm sure this will continue, it's just the reality!

Great thread!

[Azrial]

Playing Devil's advocate for the masses, I think it's human nature to feel let down/frustrated when you see a defenceless TH11 at the bottom of an opponents roster, without knowing the implications of Offensive weight (and therefore true weight) of that base.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this. If you could magically take that defenseless TH11 and give them TH10 max defenses and put them at the top of the map instead of the bottom, I believe you'd see many less complaints (even though the match up is now even worse).

I think it just grinds people to see that TH so much lower on the map that "matched up against a TH8".