UniteD PH - 200 straight wins - congratulation!

[topbtm]

Saying clans that run off triple digit win streaks are either heavily modding, or heavily engineering, is not an insult. It's the truth. Does anyone here dispute that? CanadianLegend did not insult anyone other than those specifically looking to be perpetually offended. He did not call anyone cheaters, cowards, or request that UPH members get banned. If you think that's an "insult" your standards for what constitutes an insult are exceptionally low. He showed a bit of disdain for both, but avoided overt namecalling and the like.

On the other hand, calling specific people in this thread "crying babies" is, as a matter of fact, an insult. An insult is directed towards a person or a group of people. A factual statement like "clans running 100+ win streaks are either modding or heavily engineering" is not an insult.

edited: and I don't understand the "biased GASP" attack line. I'm not biased, I have an opinion. And my opinion is that UPHs streak is utterly unimpressive given their heavy base and roster engineering. What's "biased" about that?

-saying you are not impressed with the long ws is an opinion, I can live with that.
-saying a clan is engineered is fine since engineering is all within the rules, I can live with that.
-saying a clan is modding, is like calling that clan is cheating, that I have a problem. It is the same as, if not worst than calling someone crybaby.

I can handle all of the above, including the insults because my tolerance is quit high. What I do have as a big issue is that gasp like you, who should know better, being biased and calling out someone for being insulting, yet ignoring other insults because you happen to have the same view. That is a classic definition of bias.

[MossackFonseca]

In saying "I don't know which of the two is worse," that is stating an opinion. You only infer it an as insult because it implies disdain for, rather than validation of, your chosen play style.

An actual insult, or truly equating the two, would be a statement along the lines of "oh well, they're both cheaters anyway." Or "unimpressive, they're both cowards and cheaters." That's insulting, name calling, toxic, and truly equates engineering with ToS breaking modders.

I have watched you do this in countless threads now. Someone says "engineers are exploiting the matchmaking system to manufacture easy wins," to which you say "stop being toxic and calling people names." Who's calling anyone names!? Engineers ARE exploiting the mechanics of the matchmaker to manufacture easy wins!! That's the ENTIRE point of engineering. Is there any other purpose? You only find this statement to be insulting because you infer the negative connotation of the word "exploit."

I understand that you would rather the poster claim "engineers use their superior knowledge and mathematical prowess to draw fair and equitable matchups according to SCs matchmaking alogorithm and secure consecutive wins," but don't hold your breath on that. Most people see it for what it is and are bluntly honest when discussing it.

If CanadianLegend had used the magical words of "cowards" or "cheaters," I'd grant you your point. Similarly, if he had necro bumped this thread 2 weeks after it had vanished JUST to call engineers "cowards" or "cheaters" I'd doubly grant your point and even report the post for you. But damn you guys have been awfully defensive and insulted by others not sharing your adulation for what many find to be a hollow and unimpressive win streak by UPH...

Viking, I think that you're barking up the wrong tree here. You know I'm on the forums about as much as you are, I'm sure that we read all of the same threads, I've been to your clan and found you and all of your clanmates to be seriously good dudes...but nerfedname always has a calm demeanor and posts in a respectful manner. If you want to criticize another poster for comparing engineers to modders, or to report that person, then you have a case and tbh I agree with you that it's insulting. However, to try to criticize somebody else because he does not agree with you in an opinion that this comparison is an insult is a pretty big stretch. And you know as well as I do that GASP's are not affiliated with SC at all and have no restrictions on posting their own thoughts and opinions, other than that they likely are required to do so in a friendly or at least non-insulting manner.

[Vikingchief]

In saying "I don't know which of the two is worse," that is stating an opinion. You only infer it an as insult because it implies disdain for, rather than validation of, your chosen play style.

An actual insult, or truly equating the two, would be a statement along the lines of "oh well, they're both cheaters anyway." Or "unimpressive, they're both cowards and cheaters." That's insulting, name calling, toxic, and truly equates engineering with ToS breaking modders.

I have watched you do this in countless threads now. Someone says "engineers are exploiting the matchmaking system to manufacture easy wins," to which you say "stop being toxic and calling people names." Who's calling anyone names!? Engineers ARE exploiting the mechanics of the matchmaker to manufacture easy wins!! That's the ENTIRE point of engineering. Is there any other purpose? You only find this statement to be insulting because you infer the negative connotation of the word "exploit."

I understand that you would rather the poster claim "engineers use their superior knowledge and mathematical prowess to draw fair and equitable matchups according to SCs matchmaking alogorithm and secure consecutive wins," but don't hold your breath on that. Most people see it for what it is and are bluntly honest when discussing it.

If CanadianLegend had used the magical words of "cowards" or "cheaters," I'd grant you your point. Similarly, if he had necro bumped this thread 2 weeks after it had vanished JUST to call engineers "cowards" or "cheaters" I'd doubly grant your point and even report the post for you. But damn you guys have been awfully defensive and insulted by others not sharing your adulation for what many find to be a hollow and unimpressive win streak by UPH...

ok, so to your logic, if I started a thread called "whats worse ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s or gasps?" then thats not an insult because its just stating an opinion (hypothetical, this is just an example, i dont think gasps are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s)? Come on dude, thats total ♥♥, that thread would be closed and action taken for good reasons - it is an insult.

yes i call out name calling in every thread i see it for good reason, its against forum rules. Anti angineers constantly name call, and usually i only point out the most obvios, like if someone were to call engineers unethical (who was that again? Think it was a Gasp, can you remember who?), or cheater, or cowardly or similar. I serious doubt i have every reported someone who used the words you used in this post as an example, but i would certainly try to get them to focus on the matchmaker and away from villifying people with an aubitrary offence to defence ratio that is higher than their aubitrary allowable offence to defence ratio, and moving to more productive conversation.

name calling is against forum rules, thats all there is too it. These threads will always nose dive to flame wars if people do not check others who name call, are insulting or toxic. Sad you dont share that opinion, but like i said you are entitiled to your view, i hope the mods dont agree with you.

[Vikingchief]

Viking, I think that you're barking up the wrong tree here. You know I'm on the forums about as much as you are, I'm sure that we read all of the same threads, I've been to your clan and found you and all of your clanmates to be seriously good dudes...but nerfedname always has a calm demeanor and posts in a respectful manner. If you want to criticize another poster for comparing engineers to modders, or to report that person, then you have a case and tbh I agree with you that it's insulting. However, to try to criticize somebody else because he does not agree with you in an opinion that this comparison is an insult is a pretty big stretch. And you know as well as I do that GASP's are not affiliated with SC at all and have no restrictions on posting their own thoughts and opinions, other than that they likely are required to do so in a friendly or at least non-insulting manner.

You know I respect your opinion and the feeling is mutually, i also agree nerf is a good guy, but he is 100% wrong on this issue. He is a Gasp, an opinion leader and a behavior example. He is for me totally out of line of this point, but since he carries tremendous influense as a Gasp and a respected forumer this needs to be adressen and discusssed.

to call .5ers or engineers or whoever thats players inside the rules modders, or equate them to modders, is an insult and against forum rules. He is currently defending this action.

[nerfedname]

-saying you are not impressed with the long ws is an opinion, I can live with that.
-saying a clan is engineered is fine since engineering is all within the rules, I can live with that.
-saying a clan is modding, is like calling that clan is cheating, that I have a problem. It is the same as, if not worst than calling someone crybaby.

I can handle all of the above, including the insults because my tolerance is quit high. What I do have as a big issue is that gasp like you, who should know better, being biased and calling out someone for being insulting, yet ignoring other insults because you happen to have the same view. That is a classic definition of bias.

None of the other perceived insults in this thread were explicitly calling specifics forum posters names, like the "crying babies" post to which I explicitly responded to this morning.

Nor were they of the necro variety where the poster was bumping a thread that had been dead for two weeks JUST to sling a personal insults at someone.

If the post to which I responded this morning had been posted weeks ago when this thread was on the front page, it's doubtful I would have even seen it or cared. But I saw the thread was back on top after being completely gone for 2 weeks and clicked it thinking "I wonder if there is an update on UPHs streak, did they tie or even lose!?"

Nope, just a poster slinging a personal attack for no good reason breaking 2 forum rules in the process. And almost instantly a few of you guys are all "but but but, why weren't you calling out these much softer, barely perceptible insults from 2 weeks ago Mr. biased GASP!? Aha!" The defensiveness and feigned outrage was just too much...

finally regarding:

-saying a clan is modding, is like calling that clan is cheating, that I have a problem. It is the same as, if not worst than calling someone crybaby.

where did the 2nd post, first reply to this thread, state that UPH was modding or cheating? This is the apparently insulting post that everyone has gotten all up-in-arms about today that's supposedly on par with actually calling others here "crying babies," and yet it says nothing of the sort to which you're alleging...

[Vikingchief]

Reading through this thread again, I really don't see the insults directed towards you or United PH that you are referring to. People pointed out that UPH is a heavily engineered clan, employing lots of low level TH accounts to roster stack, defenseless bases, etc, etc. Those aren't insults, those are facts.


Lastly, it's amusing how defensive you get of people calling a spade and spade and pointing out exactly what this clan is. The forum doesn't seem awfully impressed by this streak, for good reason. Basketball fans aren't impressed by the Globetrotters 3000-some-odd game winning streak either. It's amusing how much that seems to anger you ...

None of the other perceived insults in this thread were explicitly calling specifics forum posters names, like the "crying babies" post to which I explicitly responded to this morning.


where did the 2nd post, first reply to this thread, state that UPH was modding or cheating? This is the apparently insulting post that everyone has gotten all up-in-arms about today that's supposedly on par with actually calling others here "crying babies," and yet it says nothing of the sort to which you're alleging...

i only responded to you regarding your claim there were no insults that you could see to the claim in question; the second post equates engineering to modding, which is by definition cheating, and is then an insult. i think its time to wrap up this conversation soon, and lets hope the mods chip in so we know what the rules are. By my understanding the 2nd post clearly breaks the do not be rude or insult rule. Hopefully a mod can direct if there is a misunderstanding.

[nerfedname]

i only responded to you regarding your claim there were no insults that you could see to the claim in question; the second post equates engineering to modding, which is by definition cheating, and is then an insult. i think its time to wrap up this conversation soon, and lets hope the mods chip in so we know what the rules are. By my understanding the 2nd post clearly breaks the do not be rude or insult rule. Hopefully a mod can direct if there is a misunderstanding.

Dude, that 2nd post has been up for over 2 weeks now and hasn't attracted any moderator attention in that time. Nor does it explicitly equate modding with engineering or call anyone names, it merely expresses disdain for both practices. It's doubtful any action will be taken.

The necro bump from this morning that literally did nothing other than call other posters "crying babies" on the other hand...

[Vikingchief]

Dude, that 2nd post has been up for over 2 weeks now and hasn't attracted any moderator attention in that time. Nor does it explicitly equate modding with engineering or call anyone names, it merely expresses disdain for both practices. It's doubtful any action will be taken.

The necro bump from this morning that literally did nothing other than call other posters "crying babies" on the other hand...

Necro bump and crybaby - yes agree, ive never said these were correct actions, i do feel the 2nd post inflamed the crybaby response, but niether are within rules.

my only objection was you saying there were no insults, saying i dont know if rapests or Vikingchief is worse, well, come on its a way to write a insult in a slightly more complicated way. Modders are TOS breakers and by definition cheats, to say i dont know who is worse implies both are cheats, unethical, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s etc

it wasnt the worst insult i have seen on the forums, but it was an insult. If you say its ok, both because you a Gasp, and because you are a respected forummer with usually outstanding opinions and exempliary behavior, then many people will get the signal its ok to insult.

i understand you think i am petty fogging, but for me this issue is the kick off point for most of the engineering flame wars, but thats just my opinion of course.

Anyway i dont have much more to add.

[Prutser]

LOL, 200 winstreak. If you believe that is gotten with fair play, I have London Bridge to sale for you.

[nerfedname]

LOL, 200 winstreak. If you believe that is gotten with fair play, I have London Bridge to sale for you.

In the interest of olive-branchism I'll point out that UPH is FairPlay and doesn't engage in modding, cheating, or breaking the ToS as far as I am aware.

They are heavily engineered, and thus some might be unimpressed with their win streak, but it IS according to the definition "fair play."