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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: A long post about Playing to Win

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarChimp View Post
    If you assume engineering should be allowed to reign free and potentially take over the game to the point where clans who want any chance of wining are absolutely required to do so... then you have flawed game logic as you are now making the SAME argument the maxers are! That is not game balancing!

    While I agree that engineering should be a viable tactic, there needs to be a "spam filter" built into the match making algorithm. For instance; 1-2 defenseless bases? Fine! Annoying? Yes! Manageable? Yes! A few .5 bases along the way to the top? Bring it on. The smarter and more resourceful can rightfully gets the advantage but still have potential to lose. That is how balance should be.

    However

    There is nothing stopping this practice of engineering from turning into gross engineering; 2 maxed th11 + 18 defenseless th11 that match up against nothing but weak bases.

    Imagine a CoC where every other clan eventually gets to this point and all wars are perfect wars. This is legitimately possible. I shouldn't be able to hit a fast forward button and reach this end game. I mean... would you even war at that point? How would it even be fun or competitive if clans with 18 lopsided th11s get perfect wars every time?

    In order to keep the game competitive, matchmaking needs to ensure that both sides can actually win a war that are matched with. There are many (complicated) ways to do this! Just because a scrub makes a point doesn't always make it an invalid point!



    (Some edits to make this more readable)
    I would love to do wars on my main account, unfortunately it's a slightly rushed Th10 and ever since the matchmaker change my main account have burden for my clan. I made a minimaxer to be able to war, I estimate that my main account need at least 6 months more in FWA before I'm able to do real wars with it again.

    The matchmaker needs a fix or the casuals will be driven away. If the casuals leave, we'll that's probably the beginning to the end. I want to matchmaker to be fixed and I will adapt. I'm just tired of all complainers that blame engineering when it's the matchmaker algorithm that should be blamed.
    Last edited by dwbRylai; September 13th, 2016 at 11:09 PM.

  2. #22
    Forum Elder NotTheRealPaul's Avatar
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    Nice post! Agreed! Although separating ppl into either scrub or "good" is a bit broad...

    Quote Originally Posted by wretchedhorror View Post
    my motto is if you have time to take a ♥♥♥♥ then you have time to get a war attack in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smirk Saw View Post
    As the very bright kid I was when I was 7, I thought to myself, "Hey is the electrical fence on?" Yes, yes it was

  3. #23
    Centennial Club QuackAttackGoDucks's Avatar
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    Weird, my clan doesn't engineer or stay at .5 bases more than a couple months yet we are a lvl 11 clan with 242 wins and 81 losses. We don't feel like scrubs and we also don't like engineered clans or permanent .5ers. I guess some people have to find excuses to work the system.

  4. #24
    Forum Elder NotTheRealPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuackAttackGoDucks View Post
    Weird, my clan doesn't engineer or stay at .5 bases more than a couple months yet we are a lvl 11 clan with 242 wins and 81 losses. We don't feel like scrubs and we also don't like engineered clans or permanent .5ers. I guess some people have to find excuses to work the system.
    The language is definetly to broad..but the general sentiment is true. There should be 3 groups: The Smart: Two Parts, Engineers and Arranged Wars, and the Scrubs: Try to be like Arranged Wars and complain about Engineers

    Also, I think there are some engineering clans with better records than yours...just sayin.

    Quote Originally Posted by wretchedhorror View Post
    my motto is if you have time to take a ♥♥♥♥ then you have time to get a war attack in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smirk Saw View Post
    As the very bright kid I was when I was 7, I thought to myself, "Hey is the electrical fence on?" Yes, yes it was

  5. #25
    Centennial Club QuackAttackGoDucks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotTheRealPaul View Post
    The language is definetly to broad..but the general sentiment is true. There should be 3 groups: The Smart: Two Parts, Engineers and Arranged Wars, and the Scrubs: Try to be like Arranged Wars and complain about Engineers

    Also, I think there are some engineering clans with better records than yours...just sayin.
    That's the point, we don't engineer and yet win a ton of wars yet somehow because we dislike enineered clans we are scrubs. Permanent .5's are engineered clans in my books, just saying.

  6. #26
    Forum Elder NotTheRealPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuackAttackGoDucks View Post
    That's the point, we don't engineer and yet win a ton of wars yet somehow because we dislike enineered clans we are scrubs. Permanent .5's are engineered clans in my books, just saying.
    I'm not trying to call you scrubs. You obviously aren't. But what the OP is saying is generally right, except the language describing smart people and scrubs is to broad.

    And yes perma .5s are engineered...which means I'm soon to be an engineer lol. Although my mini 8.5 probably wont have more than 15/15 heroes if that.
    Last edited by NotTheRealPaul; September 13th, 2016 at 11:48 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by wretchedhorror View Post
    my motto is if you have time to take a ♥♥♥♥ then you have time to get a war attack in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smirk Saw View Post
    As the very bright kid I was when I was 7, I thought to myself, "Hey is the electrical fence on?" Yes, yes it was

  7. #27
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    The problem is not that players who push the boundaries of the game can and will mop the floor with casuals or scrubs. The problem is that these players are actively seeking out matches with clans where the outcome is already determined on prep day. Extreme engineering is not skillful. It's a sad commentary on competition.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Aaronjs View Post
    The problem is not that players who push the boundaries of the game can and will mop the floor with casuals or scrubs. The problem is that these players are actively seeking out matches with clans where the outcome is already determined on prep day. Extreme engineering is not skillful. It's a sad commentary on competition.
    Heh, I'm going to blow your mind. The outcome of nearly every war is decided by matching. After you match look at the enemy's war log. Note their average score. Now look at your clan's average score. If your clan's average score is higher, congrats, you have the better clan and you're going to win.

    Maybe you get a enemy that scores what you do. War is then decided by luck, not skill.

    Edit: Just to expand this line of logic out, if wars are won or lost at matching (and they are), then your best strategy is obviously to win at matching and that's done by engineering.
    Last edited by nobodyspecial; September 14th, 2016 at 02:13 AM.

  9. #29
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    One sentence in into and I could tell the rest was going to be a non-stop "I'm right and you are wrong, you suck, you don't know how to play, you are stupid... I'm better than you.... bla bla bla...."
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  10. #30
    Forum Elder NotTheRealPaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobodyspecial View Post
    Heh, I'm going to blow your mind. The outcome of nearly every war is decided by matching. After you match look at the enemy's war log. Note their average score. Now look at your clan's average score. If your clan's average score is higher, congrats, you have the better clan and you're going to win.

    Maybe you get a enemy that scores what you do. War is then decided by luck, not skill.

    Edit: Just to expand this line of logic out, if wars are won or lost at matching (and they are), then your best strategy is obviously to win at matching and that's done by engineering.
    This^

    As many times as legally possible this

    Quote Originally Posted by wretchedhorror View Post
    my motto is if you have time to take a ♥♥♥♥ then you have time to get a war attack in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smirk Saw View Post
    As the very bright kid I was when I was 7, I thought to myself, "Hey is the electrical fence on?" Yes, yes it was

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