Of course it would...You can attack +/-500 cups so at low Legends this will search both Titans 1 and 2 for bases.Originally Posted by Xjstryker
Of course it would...You can attack +/-500 cups so at low Legends this will search both Titans 1 and 2 for bases.
TH 12 || Lvl 210 || AQ 53 || BK 54 || GW 25 || All Time Best: 5552 Cups
I think the underlying reason for a turn based and not PvP based system is to keep cups in check and prevent inflation.
Let's create a hypothetical person: one who can 3 star every attack, every time. And his base is never 2 starred or 3 starred, always 1 or 0.
In this PvP based world:
He gets to 5500 cups, getting matched with players at 5000. The cups he earns are the same for a player 500 positions below him.
He gets to 6000 cups, still getting matched with players at 5000. The cups he earns are the same for a player 1000 positions below him.
He gets to 7000 cups, still getting match with players at 5000. The cups he earns are the same for a player 2000 positions below him.
You get the idea.
In the "defend now" based world:
He hits 5500 cups. If he gets paired with a player at 5000, he will need to perform that much better to keep his position: ie NEEDS a defensive win or getting 1 starred will lose more cups than his 3 star
He hits 6000 cups. Same thing, only even more of an extreme.
In the "defend now" universe, cups remain in check and there will be no cup inflation. With so many bases in MM, he will be able to next to find a better offer.
Even if you don't like nexting, and I know I don't, it's still a core part of the game. Getting to choose your opponent, choose the layout you hit. In a PvP based world, there would be no choice.
The +6/-30 +6/-30 only happens because there are so few actively defending bases at your position that the search algorithm looks way way below your current position for a base. With everyone having a 1:1 ratio, that won't happen as much. If all the odd global positions are in attack mode and all the even number defend mode, #1 could find #6, #3 finds #10, #5 finds #2, etc etc, which would yield a +30/-24 offer.
Last edited by nelard; February 7th, 2017 at 05:42 PM.
Legend players DO NOT have a choice on the base they attack. When it takes 30-90 minutes to find a single base you take the first one that is found. PVP would be a fine option.
TH 12 || Lvl 210 || AQ 53 || BK 54 || GW 25 || All Time Best: 5552 Cups
If I'm on shield and find a +6 base within the first 2 minutes of my search, I next.
When hunting DE if I find a base with 500 available in the first 5 minutes of search, I next.
So right now, there is "no nexting" in Legends. In PvP, there will actually be no nexting. In a "defend now" world, Legends could actually use the feature.
Maybe even revenge too....
No person in legends 3 stars every time and no base in legends defends or gives up 0 trophies every time. However, even if that impossible hypothetical would be true, that person would win the legends season as he would get the most trophies. Then he gets reset to 5000 and starts over the next season. Anyone that superior to every other person in the game deserves to win. You are correct at 7000 trophies he could still match 5000. PvP should just randomly select everyone in legends, without regard to their total trophies. Makes sense to me.
The no nexting of PvP is a good thing and revenge would be unnecessary since you get to attack everyone that attacks you. It would be a lot of fun. The best would rise to the top and those of us who aren't the best would still have fun. It would be almost like war attacking.
This is why I'm against PvP. Nexting/choosing your base to hit and revenging are core aspects of the game. Don't remove them, make them better.
Keep the game CoC. Do not make it CR.
My other issue is PvP addresses only 1 issue, the clouds. Other secondary issues it changes it does so by completely changing the core of the gameplay so it is no longer CoC.
Clouds:
Both methods have attack/defend ratios of 1:1 and will eliminate clouds
Whales:
PvP with its trophy system stops whales from happening by completely changing the core game play. If a 6000 cup player hits a 5000 cups player, they should not be offered the same number of cups. The higher player should be worth more to the lower player and vise versa. So whale cup hits are gone, but players finding a wide cup gap isn't
In the "defend now" system, the trophy system goes unchanged, and whales should be far FAR less frequent. Look at your current league. Take 1 player above and 1 player below you. Statistically speaking, one of them would be available to be hit. Look 2 above, 2 below. 2 of them would be able to be hit...and so on and so forth. There will be so many players of equal cups that a whale shouldn't happen often, you should be matched with someone of closely equal cups, a +30/-24 offer.
Account sharing:
PvP does not stop account sharing, "defend now" does.
If the top account in the world has an attack/defend base that alternates 2 star attack/2 star defense/2 star attack/2 star defense (not too extreme), they can share the account all the want, their trophies will go +20/-20/+20/-20. Be on 24/7 and attack all you want, you won't rise nor drop in cups.
% in MM should not be considered for a win or a loss. We have that already, it's called wars, in which you can scout a base for up to 24 hours to formulate a plan to hit it. With that much prep time and the ability to tailor a specific army to it, % should be a factor there, and it is. When all you have is 30 seconds to scout a base with a generic army, no % should not come into play in determining a winner.
Trophy inflation:
Fine, maybe my argument was a bit extreme. But in a PvP system, you could get player who never loses cups, and no, it's not extreme to think about. 2* 75% attack and 2* 61* defense, he wins cups. Next: A 1* 87% and 1*46% defense, wins cups again. Even though his base is getting destroyed, he'll always rise in cups. This is why there will be trophy inflation.
A turn based system is needed to keep cups in check. When he goes on defense, if he gets starred he loses cups. And if per chance it's a revenge or whale attack, he loses a lot. It sucks, but keeps the competitive edge. That elusive top spot will be seemingly available to everyone because a select few aren't running away with it.
Nexting:
Players should be able to have the choice of base to hit. If they don't like the loot, layout or cup offer, they should be able to skip it. That is part of the core game play "defend now" keeps while PvP eliminates
Revenge:
Same as nexting. Revenge will occur far more often since bases will be unshielded more frequently. PvP is technically a revenge since both people attack each other, but it's not the same.
How many people in lower leagues wait for a base in their defense log to rise up in a lot of cups, or fill their collectors before revenging it? How sweet does it feel?
Legends should keep that same core gameplay. Got hit by last seasons #1? Wait for him to get to 6000 cups. Then while you're at 5100, revenge him for a juicy 50+ offer. It's part of the strategy of the game. While it sucks to think it could be done to you, you would be able to do it to others.
So no, please don't PvP. Keep the core gameplay the same
I do see where you are coming from, but I believe this proposal is the best way for the most skilled players to reach the top. In the end game it must be about skill, not how long a person can stay online or how lucky they are finding whales. This dilutes the competition. Legends should be able to find a way to attack any base to survive the climb.
In my turn-based PvP world, it is an equal playing field. Everyone starts at 5000 cups and has the same opportunity to perform a better attack to increase their trophy count. It is much more difficult to run up the score. If someone 1-stars bases all the time, they will struggle. They should be pushed to find ways to perform better attacks. This is why the reward balloons for 2 and then 3 star attacks under my scoring section. This is all assuming the 3 star format is retained.
TH12 Level 232 --- BK60, AQ65, GW37 --- PB Trophies: 6168
In one of SC's responses (not going to hunt it down) I believe they said they are looking at ways to ease the legends clouds. While the quick fix would be to force people to attack less or defend more, they want to make sure what they implement works and is right.
I don't think this system will be implemented because it breaks from too much of what the game is (thanks for at least acknowledging my counter points and not attacking it). I agree with half their statement that they shouldn't force people to attack less as that's encouraging people not to play their game. But I DO think they should take a hard look at defending more. Defending, especially now with the ability to watch live replays, is as equally playing the game as attacking is. They would only need minor tweaks to hero regen times and loot, which they have overhauled before. No change to actual gameplay.
I get you want the same game as you have had for however long. I would gladly accept whatever tweaks they can do alleviate the cloud burden and the game remain as it is. It would be a huge improvement.
Siding with my own proposal again, I feel it would not take away from the feel of the game. I see it more as an evolution and adds a new dimension to the game that would be a lot of fun.
Another thing, losing a battle in my new system a person would lose maximum 15 trophies. The good thing is you could in theory regain those 15 on the very next battle. Seems way better than failing and losing 30+ trophies then spending 4 hours trying to recover them. This system would not be so punishing on great attackers who have one bad raid.
Last edited by Ariesram; February 8th, 2017 at 05:52 PM. Reason: Typo
TH12 Level 232 --- BK60, AQ65, GW37 --- PB Trophies: 6168
