Why has top contributed for truck event been banned ?

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January 21st, 2016
Haystacker

This thread is......

http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/...ssxunr8vu.jpeg
January 21st, 2016
Jerhunter44

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerkyCox

WOW -- what an accusation disguised as a throwaway line!!

That was not an accusation of any kind. You said OP claimed innocence, I merely pointed out OP is not the banned player in question, but instead OP posted on behalf of the banned player. Doesn't imply that I think they're guilty for not saying anything, just correcting an assumption you made in a previous comment.

By the way, what part of that rule have I broke? I'm not attacking OP or said banned player, I'm simply pointing out the statistical impossibilities (not to say entirely impossible, but extremely unlikely under any normal circumstances) that would apply to ANYONE. However you seem to think that you can call me out directly and start attacking me because of this.

I never once once said that this specific ban was justified or not. I simply tried my best to show why I believe the ban would have taken place. Try removing the context here, if someone said it was only possible to drive a specific distance in a specific time given a specific speed, and said person arrived there sooner, they obviously did something against those specifications, yes? So why is it different with a game? If the specifications of ANYTHING only allow a certain amount of things to happen, and someone goes at a pace which is beyond said specifications, something doesn't add up.

And if you still think I'm attacking one person: I believe that every player beyond the max possible should at the very least be investigated. I agree with OP in that the ban of one person only was wrong, I simply wished to help explain that logic behind the ban through actual proof. Why only one person got targeted, I don't know.
January 21st, 2016
MikeySpeed
Quote:
Originally Posted by PerkyCox

WOW -- what an accusation disguised as a throwaway line!!

I think I read about this "logic" at the Salem Witch trials of the 1600s and at the US House UnAmerican Activities hearings in the 1950s.

If it's impossible (in our never-to-be-humble opinion) to do X, then if someone CAN do X, they c h e a t e d .

If you get a ban after doing X, Then it's for c h e a t i n g in pursuit of X (not because SC Software made a mistake).

If you don't defend yourself here for being accused of c h e a t I n g, then you must have c h e a t e d -- it could NEVER be that perhaps the banned player doesn't speak English.

I still don't see any EVIDENCE, but that's because we don't now and won't ever have ANY facts or proof HERE on the forum -- so I think we should stop accusing other players and acting like we know more than we do.

This is Rule 1 on the forum rules: http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...-Rules-READ%21

Here are a set of rules for the forums. All members should read these before they begin posting:

We will not tolerate rudeness, insulting posts, personal attacks, harassment, name & shame, or purposeless inflammatory posts. Moderator and Staff decisions are final in these matters. Any abuse towards our Staff, Moderators and/or admins in any form will not be tolerated.
Perky once again you provide sound and reasonable responses. Too many times judgement are made by fellow forummers with out all the facts. I with many other forummers are tired of these witch hunts, and applaud you for also raising your voice to denounce those types of posts as adding nothing to thread but hostility, personal attack and purposeless inflammatory posts.

I also believe in innocent until proven guilty and to let Supercell and player work out the issue at hand. Too many people make accusatory and inflammatory posts making assumptions without all the facts. By facts I mean are they fully aware of how the player achieved what they did, do they know their network setup, do they know how many people helped that player, do they have access to Supercell Servers to investigate. The answer to all is NO, therefore they are speculating.

I wonder if all players who did not give benefit of doubt and immediately said guilty, if the player is found to be innocent and did not violate ToS will they apologize and admit they are wrong in equal measure to wipe out their negativity?
January 21st, 2016
Jerhunter44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeySpeed

I wonder if all players who did not give benefit of doubt and immediately said guilty, if the player is found to be innocent and did not violate ToS will they apologize and admit they are wrong in equal measure to wipe out their negativity?

Speaking for myself, absolutely! Innocent people getting caught for SEEMINGLY wrong behaviour unjustly is a tough thing to deal with, and I feel bad for people that have had unjust bannings. I've dealt with it myself in games before, for different reasons, but the same premise.

I actually hope they are innocent, the less people c-heating the better, and I'll 110% apologize if they feel that I attacked them in any way. I did try to stay rather general about everything as to not single out the person banned, but if I have offended them, I'm saying it now, I am sorry. That was not my intent.
January 21st, 2016
LetTheMusicPlay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerhunter44

By the way, what part of that rule have I broke? I'm not attacking OP or said banned player, I'm simply pointing out the statistical impossibilities (not to say entirely impossible, but extremely unlikely under any normal circumstances) that would apply to ANYONE. However you seem to think that you can call me out directly and start attacking me because of this.

I never once once said that this specific ban was justified or not. I simply tried my best to show why I believe the ban would have taken place. Try removing the context here, if someone said it was only possible to drive a specific distance in a specific time given a specific speed, and said person arrived there sooner, they obviously did something against those specifications, yes? So why is it different with a game? If the specifications of ANYTHING only allow a certain amount of things to happen, and someone goes at a pace which is beyond said specifications, something doesn't add up.

And if you still think I'm attacking one person: I believe that every player beyond the max possible should at the very least be investigated. I agree with OP in that the ban of one person only was wrong, I simply wished to help explain that logic behind the ban through actual proof. Why only one person got targeted, I don't know.

Jerhunter, I haven't seen you attack anyone. The OP brought this issue to the forum to seek help, and fortunately, for her neighbor, it looks like SC is investigating. But, since this issue is in this public forum, it's ripe for discussion. And it's been fascinating and informative to read how folks are testing the limits of the truck times, and calculating the maximum number of truck deliveries based on our 24-hour day. Wonder how many trucks we could do in a day if we were on Saturn? :smirk:

The post that you're defending yourself against is an example of a strawman argument. Your post was quoted but the reaction made it seem as if you were making all sorts of assertions that you absolutely didn't make. I don't know if there's a reading comprehension problem involved or if it was an intentional misrepresentation. But it's not fair. Especially since now folks seem to be taking that reaction at face value and are unfairly linking to rules about toxic behavior. I don't want you to be painted unfairly as having attacked anyone or as having behaved in a toxic way. You haven't. :)
January 21st, 2016
PerkyCox

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haystacker

This thread is......

http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/...ssxunr8vu.jpeg

Aint it, tho?
January 21st, 2016
Tiggerr129

When someone come to a forum and asks "why did this happen. They did x, y, and z."

All we can do is ask questions and give possible reasons why. If they don't want our answers, then they should not ask in a public forum and instead address their correspondence directly to SC. I waited several hours and when no one posted, I looked at one of the top contributors, I don't know who it was just one of the top ones. I saw that they had sent off nearly 6000 trucks in one day. I then asked how many trucks per day were possible because I truly didn't know. It seemed to me that could be the possible reason for the ban, but until that question could be answered, I didn't even suggest that as a possibility. If starting the discussion of truck speed bothers anyone, well that wasn't my intent. But if you come and ask why something happened then it seems that offering possible reasons is appropriate. And that's all I am going to say.
January 21st, 2016
PerkyCox

Quote:

Originally Posted by grfields

Over the past few weeks my neighbourhood have been gathering supplies to help Lugain and her hood prepare for this truck event. The goal was for Lugain to try to be top contributor with the help of her hood. All of whom have been frantically preparing. Now it seems they have been banned from using their rss as supercell suspect they may have bought items from a bot farm. My hood leader has gone to join them in an effort to help them negotiate with Supercell..as the majority in that hood are not english speaking.

Supercell why has this happened? Is it possible for you to look back and see all the honest hard work that has gone into this?

How do we identify bot farms? Once it was easy now it is not.

Come on Supercell this is not a hood trying to ♥♥♥♥♥. It's a hood who have been planning and working hard their aim to make one of their members top contributer... Now they have no chance
Please give them that chance back.

Let's review: This post quoted above (I added bold for emphasis) was made in a thread on a public message forum, BUT the questions and comments were only addressed to SUPERCELL.

This post DID NOT ask any forumers for input or opinions, advice, counsel, or comfort.

This post DID ask SC to investigate and explain why an adverse action was taken against a player in their NH who was trying to claim a spot on the global event leaderboard.

This post DID ask SC to elaborate on the characteristics of bot farms, buying from whom the NH clearly assumes was the reason for their player's ban.

The VERY FIRST POST after the original post wondered how many trucks could "legally" be done in one day -- off-topic, since the subject of the post was why a player was banned, but at the time, seemingly harmless. I know that question was certainly not asked with the intent of starting up anything negative. It was just a direct request for factual information, that was all.

Then starting with the 3rd post to this thread, there are 5-6 on-topic posts back and forth between SC/Nick and the NH -- which discussion was sought by the NH, and which did not involve the forumers at all. NH rep was taking to Nick, and Nick was talking to NH rep.

The issue raised in the first post *seemed* solved: the NH asked SC to check out their activities, gave them required information, and SC agreed to. End of discussion?

Sadly, no.

Other commenters jumped over the on-topic conversation (between the NH rep and SC) that had come to a conclusion, in order to explore the off-topic "number of legal trucks" question. This elicited discussions of statistics and legalities of the TOS, and measurements of truck speeds and etc., with an eventual claim that no, the player's total truck order achievement was not possible without utilizing an unfair exploit. And so the discussion turned from its starting point (SC please explain what happened) to "what they did was statistically impossible without c h e a t I n g".

That's how the Forum Judgement Machine started rolling, and no number of posts by a member of that NH could stop it once it did.

Again: WE on this forum cannot, will not, and do not know what happened to cause the ban. We don't know why it was handed down. We don't know if the ban was justified, or if it was unjustified. We KNOW nothing because we have no access to facts -- but what we DO have unlimited access to is opinion, accusation, unintentional irony, and innuendo.

A cautionary tale for those who might come here looking for help.
January 21st, 2016
PerkyCox

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiggerr129

When someone come to a forum and asks "why did this happen. They did x, y, and z."

All we can do is ask questions and give possible reasons why. If they don't want our answers, then they should not ask in a public forum and instead address their correspondence directly to SC.

I waited several hours and when no one posted, I looked at one of the top contributors, I don't know who it was just one of the top ones. I saw that they had sent off nearly 6000 trucks in one day. I then asked how many trucks per day were possible because I truly didn't know. It seemed to me that could be the possible reason for the ban, but until that question could be answered, I didn't even suggest that as a possibility.

If starting the discussion of truck speed bothers anyone, well that wasn't my intent. But if you come and ask why something happened then it seems that offering possible reasons is appropriate. And that's all I am going to say.

[I added the bold and italics, and spaced the post to break out the different valid points made in it. ]

I agree that players who come here and ask questions of the forum will get answers from forumers. And I agree that if they don't want our answers, don't ask us. But I think they did address their post to SC, not to the forum at large.

Given what we know of in-game support, I understand why they came here looking for dialogue and answers from a real SC employee -- and they were successful in reaching Nick.

For what it's worth, I read your post asking the truck question as a pure request for factual information, with not a hint of any insinuation of any kind regarding bad behavior on the part of those who started the thread.

In my view, the forum discussion went sideways later.
January 21st, 2016
Jerhunter44

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerkyCox

Let's review: This post quoted above (I added bold for emphasis) was made in a thread on a public message forum, BUT the questions and comments were only addressed to SUPERCELL.

This post DID NOT ask any forumers for input or opinions, advice, counsel, or comfort.

This post DID ask SC to investigate and explain why an adverse action was taken against a player in their NH who was trying to claim a spot on the global event leaderboard.

This post DID ask SC to elaborate on the characteristics of bot farms, buying from whom the NH clearly assumes was the reason for their player's ban.

The VERY FIRST POST after the original post wondered how many trucks could "legally" be done in one day -- off-topic, since the subject of the post was why a player was banned, but at the time, seemingly harmless. I know that question was certainly not asked with the intent of starting up anything negative. It was just a direct request for factual information, that was all.

Then starting with the 3rd post to this thread, there are 5-6 on-topic posts back and forth between SC/Nick and the NH -- which discussion was sought by the NH, and which did not involve the forumers at all. NH rep was taking to Nick, and Nick was talking to NH rep.

The issue raised in the first post *seemed* solved: the NH asked SC to check out their activities, gave them required information, and SC agreed to. End of discussion?

Sadly, no.

Other commenters jumped over the on-topic conversation (between the NH rep and SC) that had come to a conclusion, in order to explore the off-topic "number of legal trucks" question. This elicited discussions of statistics and legalities of the TOS, and measurements of truck speeds and etc., with an eventual claim that no, the player's total truck order achievement was not possible without utilizing an unfair exploit. And so the discussion turned from its starting point (SC please explain what happened) to "what they did was statistically impossible without c h e a t I n g".

That's how the Forum Judgement Machine started rolling, and no number of posts by a member of that NH could stop it once it did.

Again: WE on this forum cannot, will not, and do not know what happened to cause the ban. We don't know why it was handed down. We don't know if the ban was justified, or if it was unjustified. We KNOW nothing because we have no access to facts -- but what we DO have unlimited access to is opinion, accusation, unintentional irony, and innuendo.

A cautionary tale for those who might come here looking for help.

False. There was a general question asked on a public forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grfields

Over the past few weeks my neighbourhood have been gathering supplies to help Lugain and her hood prepare for this truck event. The goal was for Lugain to try to be top contributor with the help of her hood. All of whom have been frantically preparing. Now it seems they have been banned from using their rss as supercell suspect they may have bought items from a bot farm. My hood leader has gone to join them in an effort to help them negotiate with Supercell..as the majority in that hood are not english speaking.

Supercell why has this happened? Is it possible for you to look back and see all the honest hard work that has gone into this?

How do we identify bot farms? Once it was easy now it is not.

Come on Supercell this is not a hood trying to ♥♥♥♥♥. It's a hood who have been planning and working hard their aim to make one of their members top contributer... Now they have no chance
Please give them that chance back.

Referencing the truck event, the GENERAL question asked by OP, DIRECTED AT NO ONE IN PARTICULAR, asked about how bot farms are identified. We on the forum gave our response, through estimating what is possible and what is not. This is how we on the forum tried to explain how bot farms are recognized. Maybe Supercell never caught them, but instead received numerous reports from concerned players/forumers suggesting that it was potential bot behaviour, resulting in the ban.

As Tiggerr had said, if they didn't want public opinion, don't ask on a public forum, there are ways to contact Supercell directly. Don't attack people who are harmlessly trying to have a discussion about this. All the truck speculation wasn't directed specifically at Lugain or OP, it was a GENERAL discussion that you seem to have taken offence to.

Edit: Included the whole quotes as to make sure I didn't use a strawman argument myself. Can't take it out of context if all the context is there.

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