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Th7 mass dragon attacks are to overpowered, a well executed th7 dragon attack will destroy almost ANY other th7 with a few exceptions.I think that this situation should be dealt with as soon as possible to make clan wars both more fun, and more challenging.
How we could deal with the problem.
- Reduce dragon hp and/or damage
- Give th7 a new defence tower
- improved air defence
- Extra traps-extra seeking air mine?
- remove cannon to encourage ground attacks
- limit th7 to only level 1 dragons.
An extra seeking airmine would help a little. (Not much though, TH7's will still get crushed)Quote:
Originally Posted by calebMcF
Nerfing drags may improve defending of th7 but will have devastsating effects for th10's who specalise in drag attacks for 2* wins. I do like the thought of adding extra traps and a third air defence/additional levels. I don't understand why th7 got troops they clearly couldn't defend against.
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Originally Posted by TheComboKid
I'm just just saying that maybe they should rework stats of dragons so that for th7 it isn't to op and th10 th9 and th8 stay the same
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Originally Posted by Washandje
True, that's why I suggested reworking either dragon stats or air defence stats. A new defence might be good but that would also affect other town hall levels And that isn't good
Nerfing dragon levels 1 and 2 would be appropriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheComboKid
Give TH7 a third AD.Quote:
Originally Posted by calebMcF
NB. TH7 is a very vulnerable level. I just saw one crushed by a rush of level 1 hogs, with just a few giants and the BK tanking them.
Giving TH7s a Third Air Defense is not an option, as you would unlock two new Air Defenses at TH7, which does not allow for a smooth upgrade curve.
I think TH7s should only be allowed Level 1 Dragons, and even then they should have their health and damage removed, as well as an additional Seeking Air Mine. It also wouldn't hurt to have the 5th Cannnon taken away to make ground attackers slightly easier. I never understood why TH7 had two cannons unlocked, when the most dominant strategy is an air attack.
"Well-executed" LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by calebMcF
You can literally spam all your dragons in the same spot and still win on a TH7.
Depending on how the bases are set out, you can also 3-star th8 bases with Level 6 (max for th8) air defenses. So I agree that they're too over powered for th7 bases to defend.
Also agree that level 1 and/or 2 should be nerfed just so there is more of a challenge with them.
Perhaps another air sweeper?
> Giving TH7s a Third Air Defense is not an option, as you would unlock two new Air Defenses at TH7, which does not allow for a smooth upgrade curve.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScavenger350
Of course it is an option!! Smooth upgrade curve? There is nothing smooth about the TH6-7 transition of no dragons (one in CC) to 11 dragons. The fact is that it takes 3 ADs to mount a fair defence against dragons.
> I think TH7s should only be allowed Level 1 Dragons, and even then they should have their health and damage removed,
Similar intent, nerf level 1 and 2 dragons.
> It also wouldn't hurt to have the 5th Cannnon taken away to make ground attackers slightly easier.
No, it is very easy to defeat TH7 with TH7 ground troops. All you need is a fraction of the ground troops skill that you'll be needing a bit later.
So many TH7s don't have these skills. I saw kids at the airport the other day, TH7, still sending in the wallbreakers *ahead* of the giants; attacking with the giants (and dead wbs) one side, a line of wizards on the opposite side, immediately taking flak from canons and towers while they shoot collectors and mines.
TH7 should stop being considered a novice level. That was TH2-4.
> I never understood why TH7 had two cannons unlocked, when the most dominant strategy is an air attack.
Because SuperCell didn't appreciate at the time the power of all dragons in clan wars where elixir and training is of little consequence. At the time, there were no clan wars, and dragons were to be tempered by their elixir cost and training time.
We have all been there. Dont act like we havent. Many players have seconds accs and have had this haul but serious... th 7 is just one hurdle. You are probably the same people complain about walls costing to much. Sure its a grind but get over it. Reality is... they mass drag you. You can mass drag them back... easy. But serious... nerfing drags! They have been nerfed so many times. Why not just give the second seeking air mine and have people have a little skill in making their anti drag base.
Now we come to the problem... everyone will go to mass hogs again and the problem starts again with people saying... 'hogs are to strong nerf them'. And im sick of it. When hogs were powerhouses i sucked it up and got through it.
And this 3rd AD business... i think th 8 should have 4 and th 10 should have 5... surely that would then stop drags all together and they would bexome like hogs were when a giant bomb did 2.5 damage... or does no one remember that???
Some food for thought. Yes a second seeking air mine would be good but any other ideas just plain stink and if they were implemented... well you would get what you wished for. A broken troop.
> Now we come to the problem... everyone will go to mass hogs again and the problem starts again with people saying... 'hogs are to strong nerf them'. And im sick of it. When hogs were powerhouses i sucked it up and got through it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charizar
Nonsense. Mass hogs at every level require skill. Dragons at TH7 require no skill. Big difference.
> And this 3rd AD business... i think th 8 should have 4 and th 10 should have 5... surely that would then stop drags all together
You completely misunderstand if you think the intention is to stop dragons all together. No, dragons at TH8, once some of the defences are upgraded, are quite a challenge. In defense, put the ADs together and they are vulnerable to raged dragons; put them too spread out and they can be picked off individually. In attack, you have to know how to funnel (unlike at TH7), and have some some important decisions to make for the attack strategy.
Mid TH8 is actually a good contest for dragons verses defense. It is well balanced, before late TH8 when air attacks are too weak, and stay that way until TH9 hounds appear, with skill requirements far beyond TH7.
This is not about whining about any little problem. It is about solving the undeniable absurdity of the lack of balance, offence over defense, at TH7 alone.
Yet everyone still ignores the face that you have to suck it up. Same as walls. How did all those that had maxed their walls with gold feel when the elixir option came out. There is no problem and i have proved it with both me accs that made it though th 7 fine. Suck it up. Play the game. And stop complaining. Nerf lvl 1 drags if you must but serious... its part of the game, part of the challange.Quote:
Originally Posted by George1971
Suck it up is a workable approach, no denying that. Yes, been through TH7 a few times. It is not much to suck up. Attacking is easy, and defense, who cares, its useless anyway. And if you know what you are doing, if you were maxed TH6, TH7 is quite brief.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charizar
That is not the problem.
The problem is that it is grossly unbalanced, which is bad for the game, bad especially for beginners who think it is fun to be able to beat any base with mindless dragons and drop the ball with respect to skill progression.
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Originally Posted by Charizar
The problem is that there is NO challenge. Walls are a different story. With or without elixirs, they are a challenge.
It isn't about getting through th7 and surviving it. It is about while being th7. During this time, there is NO challenge. Th'7s are practically breezing through th7 into th8.
Or we could just nerf levels 1 and 2 (and maybe a little nerf on lvl 3). Then there could be a big change from level 2-3 and 3-4Quote:
Originally Posted by TheComboKid
Serious nerfing of levels 1-2, or a third AD, is the obvious thing to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by SimSheets
Dragons 3-5 are fine as they are.
Yeah 2 air defenses wouldn't be good but I think lowering Ho and stuff would be goodQuote:
Originally Posted by TheScavenger350
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Originally Posted by Charizar
I am am actually town hall 8 but I'm speaking on the behalf of friends who are annoyed at getting three starred EVERY single war. I do agree with you, the only sensible idea is extra traps but I had to present other options.....
I remember this problem as a TH7. I solved it by going to TH8 but since I rushed I didn't really escape it. It was a problem in war since the majority of my clan was TH7 and every week was the same thing. I upgraded my air defenses and experimented with anti drag bases until the mass drag died off. It was a hurdle and still is. My 2nd acct went through the same thing and is now at TH8 as well. It still gets mass drag against it but that's part of the evolution. There isn't anything wrong with mass dragons. An additional air mine would be as far as I'd go with TH7 and mass dragons.
This seems like the best option. maybe some sort of AD shield so they can't be lightning'd. But still... with 3 rage they would be as strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by calebMcF
Different line of thought...add walls.
The problem with TH7 is less that the dragons are over-powered than it is a relative inability to spread things out and still defend against other attacks. I'd like to see the 25 walls they added to TH10 a few months back get added at TH7 instead. Not only will it make TH7 more interesting but it will also make it a little easier to get those walls upgraded.
In keeping with earlier proposals...add the second air-sweeper at TH7 instead of later.
Do both (AS and walls) and it will make TH7 and TH8 both much more challenging for air attacks as well as ground attacks. (This is the best solution, IMNSHO.)
As to reducing the damage points for dragons...I hate that idea. It is possible to build a TH7 base that will prevent unskilled, mass dragon attackers from getting their 3rd star. It isn't difficult to 3 star a TH7 with dragons, but nerfing the dragon class isn't the answer. Better to beef up the defenses a bit.
Or give the ole "tesla in the far corner" trick a shot.
beefing up the defence might be goodQuote:
Originally Posted by Noctaire
Should I set up a poll for this idea?
With a poll we could get more support and pressure to fix the mass dragon problem....
Mass drags at th7 is way too overpowered. While there are bases that can prevent three stars when drags are droped all in one spot and with no skill, there is no way to beat an attacker with a tiny bit of skill. I once forgot my spells on a war attack and still managed to get a three star with 10 drags. However, it is something everyone should go through. It isn't that bad as mass drags is rarely used except in wars, and you can always just use mass drags to three star right back.
Just give air bombs more damage. theyre useless against anything except minions.
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Originally Posted by xSijUx
That is the best I can think of at the moment.:straightface:
The design is already good imo. It's not guaranteed win, you need proper executions and proper strength, then you should be able to 3 star your equal opponent even maxxed defense. TH8 and TH9 is also like that, with proper strength and execution you can 3 star your opponent who is maxxed. And with TH7 being quite low strength out there, it suppose to be not requiring as much skill as higher TH. You maybe familiar with using drags, but many players out there don't really grasp the idea of how to use it properly, or care enough to do that like those who only play the game casually.
And the air sweeper update actually have buffed the defense against dragons.
I'm TH9 now, lvl 107, so I've been through th7 and 8, lots of dragons on the way. I think the difficulty in getting 3 star is quite good, gradually getting harder. Th7 easier, th8 harder, th9 even harder.
SC won't likely grant nerfing dragons for th7, because they see the bigger picture, the intended gradual difficulty increment in clan wars. You only see th7. I have seen only up to th9 and I wouldn't grant it if I were them lol
Yes its unbalanced and i think its to encourage lower ths to use stronger troops.
TH7 is really the intro level to war so i dont think it should be too daunting, but at the same time a strategy game should involve some strategy
But the fact is level 2 dragons are already too weak for th8s in war (unless they are very low level)
You can easily get 3 stars against th7s with level 1. So what is the point of level 2 dragons?
But agreed lv1 dragons should be nerfed. or strengthen air bombs at that level. (e.g. give an extra air seeking mine at least).
^ this. Yes, dragons are the bane of th7 existence. But to fix it requires nerfing of a whole lot of stuff. Anyone on here think of lightning? Th8 can make short work of a th8 with 'well executed' drags and three lightnings. Then if you add AD, everyone higher wants more AD, and not just dragons but all air attacks are screwed. Only way to un-nerf air afterward is to superpower balloons. Circular domino effect. Walls aren't an issue, they're 200,000 each. No one will spent all that elixir to come after your 200,000 gold, only 40,000 of which at most is available to steal. Just get through it as fast as you can. Also realize that this problem is nerfed by the fact that you can abuse it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charizar
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Originally Posted by joe331
i have two accounts, a th8 and a th9 but am speaking on behalf of annoyed th7 clanmates.:D
improve air sweeper:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by calebMcF
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Originally Posted by Kingcrazy33
You shouldn't have to 'rush' through a town hall level. That's just avoiding the problem rather than facing it......
I agree with youQuote:
Originally Posted by PhantomRaspberryBlower
Considering how much it takes to train those dragons...They are not making any profit on those attacks..
TH7 is fine.
We are Talking about three starring bases, not how much loot they are gettingQuote:
Originally Posted by ClashingWithWizard
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Originally Posted by Kingcrazy33
Im not talking about lvl 7 walls im talking about lvl 9-10 and 11. As for lightning... that seems plausable but it has already been modified many times. And as i and you said... it is just an infinate circle of nerfs and complaints.
Glad to hear that an experienced forumer approves👍🏻👍🏻Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScavenger350
...I think this is a lot of discussion for something that shouldn't be changed.
Helping clanmates climb up to th6.5 by throwing max troops in their requests so they can get L4 lightning and L2 dragons is really challenging and expensive, but it pays heavy dividends in wars. We wouldnt even mess with th6s or th7s if the th7 mass drag attack was nerfed. That's the first point where a novice becomes useful. The clan perks also make their troops better than worthless to other clan mates so there is value to having them around.
Stop this nonsense. You'll break the game.
If you don't include THs 6-7, then you won't match THs 6-7. There is no war advantage or disadvantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis
Clan perks aren't enough to get any TH7 troop to max, so their troops are not for donating in war.
There is no war advantage is having every TH7 freely 3-starred, and unable to attack above, ( it is the same both sides). But it de-skills them in ground attacks.
The reason to include beginner players is that as a result of nurturing and developing, you gain very loyal members.
Eh. Nurture... mass drag, mass hog... who cares. A win. If they are happy im happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by George1971
Not sure what you're getting at. We carry 10 th7s with mass drag attacks into every war. I wont discuss why.Quote:
Originally Posted by George1971
Level 3 and level 4 dragons are not worthless. Not max, but not worthless.Quote:
Originally Posted by George1971
No, I usually hit th8s with my th7 alt. It gives a pretty big advantage, actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by George1971
Again, no. We include players for what they contribute to the clan. Most of the lower players we accept are friends of members, but we let anonymous players join if they are th7s because they will be able to contribute to war efforts immediately. You could easily design a th7 base to require 2 drag attacks to be smashed prior to the attack time extension, but its a little bit more hit or miss after. That much I can agree with, but th7 is such a short level that theres no point even bothering with screwing with the mechanics at the risk of screwing something else up.Quote:
Originally Posted by George1971
Correct, any fix to TH7 should not affect any higher level.Quote:
Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis
Nerfing level 1 and 2 dragons, or giving the third TH8 AD at TH7, these changes would improve the balance at TH7 without altering anything at TH8.
Well, nerfed level 2 dragons might have some effect on TH8 if you like to use a TH7 attack on TH8. Probing I guess, not usually defeating 3 stars? Or is that your point, 10 level 2 dragons plus CC can three star a junior TH8? (We have a wide range of THs, but host few maxed TH7s at any one time)
My preference is to add the third AD at TH7. No effect on TH8 unless maybe less spare attacks to use higher.
We are not short of level 5 dragons, so don't use less. Even though they are mostly destined to die from double poison. At least they consume the attackers' time.Quote:
Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis
Our TH8s are mostly pretty efficient at 3 starring opposition TH8s outright on first attack. Either by dragons+hogs, or hog rush, depending on target layout or just attacker preference.
As far as mass drags hitting th8, it is exactly my point that the attack is designed to hit th7s and th8s up to mid level, just the same as with all town hall levels. I'm saying that if you neef mass drags at th7, you WILL screw with the balance of the game and give th8s an advantage.
Regarding war attacks,
I've actually been having a bit of trouble the past few wars with seeking air mines traveling all the way across a base to kill a dragon that is no where near its range. ...it never targets an injured dragon about to die, but the one that hasnt been touched yet...which results in me losing both dragons. That's screwed up several of my war attacks lately.
Comments in boldQuote:
Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis
It happened during one of my th8 war attacks last night. SAM hit my remaining healthy L3 dragon and wiped him off the map with 1 shot. It even passed over an injured drag to kill the healthy one, which cost me the 3rd star against a target that i dont think our lowers will have much luck against...so that made me mad.
Double post
this thread was started to fix mass dragon attacks, not for sharing unfortunate war events, please stick to the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis
Anyway, the answers regarding this thread have been so varied, I don't know what people are really thinking/wanting, please post what you think should be done (if anything). Please post clearly what you think of each of the ideas I listed so I can start to rule out the original poor options. Thanks
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Already answered. Nerfing th7 mass drags is a bad idea.
I presented 6 rough ideas, please state what you think of all of them, thanks:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis
Th7 is *all about* dragons and the early dark troops. Th7 is the entrypoint of war, so nerfing the basic attack is likely to be counterproductive. If you are upset with how easy th7 is, go ahead and rush your th to level 9 and dont worry about those wall things. That'll give you a challenge ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by calebMcF
1 would unbalance the game even now that theyve spent a lot of time and effort making dragons useful again.Quote:
Originally Posted by calebMcF
2 would lessen the upgrade path between th7 and th8 which was already done when th7s gained the ability to create a de drill. Lessening the upgrade jump would be a Bad Thing.
3 would unbalance the game skewed towards air defense and make attack strategies even more ground dominant than they already are
4 might be ok. I'd prefer if it was a normal air mine rather than a SAM but neither will make a solid impact. I usually have 9 or 10 drags left flying at the end of a th7 mass drag raid.
5 doesnt make any sense whatsoever. You do realize at th7, you can be hit by queens right? Go ahead and get rid of that canon and I'll walk right over you without a scratch
6 would extremely unbalance th7 because level 1 dragons cannot do significant damage against a th8.
So, to recap: I think your complaint is mostly off the mark. It doesnt matter that the th7 mass drag attack seems overpowered to th7 and lower defenders. Th7 is caught right in the middle and they need the ability to reach out and venge a th8 or th9. Get rid of the th7 mass drag attack and th8s will eat your lunch because they will know you cant do anything about it in return. Youre trying to break the game for a very, very small perceived improvement.
sorry for the misunderstanding in #5,I meant removing a cannon, to encourage attackers to do ground attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis
I understood you. Ground troops dont need to be incentivized. If you take a cannon away from th7 defenders, th8 attackers will roll over them without even trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by calebMcF
You're talking about a feature of th7 like it is a problem to be solved and I'm saying that it is not.
I personally don't have any objection to th7 mass dragon attacks, as I am currently a nearly maxed th8. I made this thread after hearing many complaints from my th7 clanmates. I am in favour of bringing more strategy into th7 rather than 'drop three lightnings and put in a bunch of drags' technique. I have had quite a few friends struggling through early stages of th8, not knowing how to do proper attacks after having done drag attacks for so long. i would quite like to see more strategy in th7 so they are prepared for th8 when it comes.Quote:
Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis
If your clanmates are bored with attacking th7 targets, then have them attack th8 targets. With the th7 attack, you kind of get to "feel your way" into good strategies because they will be needed once dragons are facing 3 L6 air defenses, level 10 archer towers, and well positioned air sweepers.
Basically, yes you can for the most part drop 10 Lw drags on a th7 target with no planning and defeat the base. But if your clanmates are doing this, they are not taking advantage of the chance to figure out how dragons work because their status as 'OP' changes drastically at thi until the quake and L5 lightning is unlocked.
I am 3 starring any th7 with 9 dragons level 1 and 3x lighting... I even 3 star some th8 depending iff airdefence is at the outside of the base or not! Th7 needs a third airdefence!
I want to encourage th7 to use GROUND attacks because any good th8 will be able to defend against a dragon attack. I want them to learn to use ground attacks so I don't have to take them out of war once they hit th8.....because I know that once they hit th8 they won't be able to three star because of L6 ad....Quote:
Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by calebMcF
http://supercell-forum-content.s3.am...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by calebMcF http://supercell-forum-content.s3.am...post-right.png
- Reduce dragon hp and/or damage. Someone says that will hurt TH7s attack up. This maybe a good point
- Give th7 a new defence tower. I think an extra AD is a very good idea.
- improved air defence. No, just #2. TH7 has enough defenses that can target ground.
- Extra traps-extra seeking air mine? Against 11 dragons, or worse if balloons are mixed in, I don't think 1 or 2 extras would make much difference.
- remove cannon to encourage ground attacks. No, ground attacks already are strong enough.
- limit th7 to only level 1 dragons. I think this is unfair to existing TH7s with level 2, and it is basically the same as #1
This is exactly my experience. Kids are developing through to TH6. They get to TH7 and get dragons and get really good with them and they think they are good.Quote:
Originally Posted by calebMcF
they don't notice how easily they are three starred, it's no big deal, all bases below TH9, and even most of them, always get three starred.
The get to TH8 and discover, after a few upgrades, that the game is hard. At this point some develop, but others give up.
Well all i can say is congrats... you all got you wanted... im just waiting for the complaints after this last youtube update post... hopefully it is fake otherwise people are gonna quit big... again.
Sorry for negativity but just the general consensus in game and SOME not all of the forumers.
Ill wait and see though... maybe it will be ok
They solved this in the new update, an extra air defence.Quote:
Originally Posted by calebMcF
But by doing so they at least have to give the hogs a bit of extra strength to demolish at least one other AD.
We got a third air defence! I'm happy. No need to nerf drags now.
YES!!! SC are adding an extra air defence. Yes yes yes yes
Lv2 Dragons are too strong for TH7 ....... LV1 are controllable ....
A boost damage like 3x to Dragons by Air mines may help
Maybe this might help :
[http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...+upgrade+cost]
No, the situation is FINE, SC are putting a third ad in th7. None of this stuff your saying will be neededQuote:
Originally Posted by PokeManiac
As you all may have heard. Supercell intends on adding a full Air Defense building to both TH6 and TH7. My concerns are that the tables will turn entirely. A dragon attack is the only truly feesable attack strategy for a TH7 to 3 star another TH7. Almost the same rings true for a TH6 in concern for a Healer Giant Army being the only truly reliable option. We will most definitely find that it will become nearly impossible to 3 star at these TH levels unless they are being attacked from one TH level higher. That is usually how my war strategy works (attacking from higher accounts) but it leaves those at equal levels at an unfair loss in offensive capabilities and welcome gain in defensive. I am simply proposing that instead of basically making Air Units nearly obsolete until TH8, why not ALSO reduce the AD level by 1 per TH level till TH8 so as to even out the offensively devistating blow of adding an additional AD to these TH levels. This way the damage is more spread appart and slightly (not overly) more powerful against these types of attacks........ Does anyone agree with this? Because otherwise, this is the end of air attacks for my lower members.
Nonsense. Ground armies can easily defeat TH7, and TH7 air armies can defeat junior TH8s. I've been doing it just for fun. It is higher risk though, obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXXBGBG