3 weeks later,was I wrong ?

My post a few weeks ago......was I wrong ? Was there actually more loot ?:smirk:
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...=1#post5932439
Here are my replies to GreedGrim, post linked above.


http://supercell-forum-content.s3.am...cons/icon1.png Let's break down Doomsday

Let's classify and break down Doomsday:
http://supercell-forum-content.s3.am...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by GreedGrim http://supercell-forum-content.s3.am...post-right.png
After the sneak peek was introduced I have same idea as other about the TH snipe, easy loot and not time consuming.
But I realize what Jonas said "80% of loot was hiding on those shield",


he said 80% of bases,not loot,and that was an average.If you did some high-level maths,you would know what I mean.


http://supercell-forum-content.s3.am...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by GreedGrim http://supercell-forum-content.s3.am...post-right.png
if no TH sniping then those village protected under the free shield will be available, we just need to do some effort on destroying those village.



2. TH sniping not only hid juicy bases,but also cleared up like 60% of junk bases offering <150k .

3. Removal of active bases also means that there would be more chances of collector loot.Now that sniping will be dead,you will have much less chance of finding collector loot.

4. "Significant" bonus increase means less overall loot in the economy,BECAUSE,Farmers just don't use GoWiPe and sh*t like that to farm to 70%

5. Because TH sniping won't exist anymore,all farmers in Masters-Titan will go down to crystal,gold and silver.Less farmers=less bases=less loot=more clouding=less league bonus generation=less pushers=less loot in economy=Backfire of SC's plan

6. Until now,nothing has been revealed to subtitute TH sniping loot generation(LEAGUE BONUS INCREASE DOESN'T COUNT).I'd like to stress here because people can't differentiate between GENERATION and CIRCULATION Generation means more loot in cash economy whereas Circulation means same loot travelling from base to base,while being taxed through army costs and nexting;Thus, LESS LOOT.

7.More expensive armies=more loot burned=less loot in the economy

8.Thanks to TH11 and shiny other things coming,LOTS OF LOOT WILL BE BURNED

9.Unbreakable achievement (2 and 3 stars) much more difficult to achieve due to village guard

So,what do you say,real chiefs ?:smirk:

https://i.imgflip.com/wgkmm.jpg

Number 9 was wrong. Otherwise spot on

You was basically wrong, th sniping hid the games major imbalances not the loot. As to why some are doing ok and some aren't. Might maxed th9 has no issues finding loot, my maxed th8 is getting hammered and unable to keep loot.

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Originally Posted by C8XYR

Number 9 was wrong. Otherwise spot on

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Yeah,this actually got a bit more easier due to 29% trolls:rolleyes:

Uhm, well, I have tried continue to play, even after all my other accounts retired, but you know what, I barely look at my account today, could not bother less.

I used to do two lvl10 walls a day, after update I could do 2 in a week with same effort, nuff said I think....

Sad to see the number one game go down the drain...., it really hurts to be honest

I see loads more drops than trolls

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Originally Posted by Horneddog

You was basically wrong, th sniping hid the games major imbalances not the loot. As to why some are doing ok and some aren't. Might maxed th9 has no issues finding loot, my maxed th8 is getting hammered and unable to keep loot.

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So is that an imbalance of not? and what imbalances did TH sniping hide?

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Originally Posted by Horneddog

You was basically wrong, th sniping hid the games major imbalances not the loot. As to why some are doing ok and some aren't. Might maxed th9 has no issues finding loot, my maxed th8 is getting hammered and unable to keep loot.

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What are you trying to say ? It is inevitable that the economy has become broken after update,and the fact that dead bases AND storage bases are becoming rarer.You can find many constructive threads on this subject.What you found might just be luck.Proof or it didnt happen

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Originally Posted by C8XYR

I see loads more drops than trolls

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Yeah this too

well, it didn't take a genius to predict that... I really, really wonder what kind of people a multi-billion dollar company like SC employs...

Very good analysis. Shame we are wasting our energy on those a holes at sc.

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Originally Posted by Horneddog

You was basically wrong, th sniping hid the games major imbalances not the loot. As to why some are doing ok and some aren't. Might maxed th9 has no issues finding loot, my maxed th8 is getting hammered and unable to keep loot.

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The game was fundamentally flawed at its core. TH sniping was something that needed to be fixed, I think we can all agree with that. However; we NEEDED TH sniping for the loot bonus. They need to raise league bonuses!

And thats why Mr Cooper has stopped donating and left the game.........😀, oh and thats why Coc has started advertising again, they have lost loads of players after that update!

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Originally Posted by pleiroma

well, it didn't take a genius to predict that... I really, really wonder what kind of people a multi-billion dollar company like SC employs...

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Actually,many butthurt people were commenting "you have to wait and see." and "Do you have access to a developer ipad or other proof?" and sh-t like that.

Other than that,yes,SC employees have bird-brains,and anybody could predict those changes in the economy

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Originally Posted by Carminep

And thats why Mr Cooper has stopped donating and left the game.........😀, oh and thats why Coc has started advertising again, they have lost loads of players after that update!

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That ain't gonna work,those millions they spent in advertising should have gone to fixing this sh*tty game update.

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Originally Posted by Masky

My post a few weeks ago......was I wrong ? Was there actually more loot ?:smirk:
http://supercell-forum-content.s3.am...cons/icon1.png Let's break down Doomsday

Let's classify and break down Doomsday:
http://supercell-forum-content.s3.am...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by GreedGrim http://supercell-forum-content.s3.am...post-right.png
After the sneak peek was introduced I have same idea as other about the TH snipe, easy loot and not time consuming.
But I realize what Jonas said "80% of loot was hiding on those shield",


he said 80% of bases,not loot,and that was an average.If you did some high-level maths,you would know what I mean.


http://supercell-forum-content.s3.am...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by GreedGrim http://supercell-forum-content.s3.am...post-right.png
if no TH sniping then those village protected under the free shield will be available, we just need to do some effort on destroying those village.



2. TH sniping not only hid juicy bases,but also cleared up like 60% of junk bases offering <150k .

3. Removal of active bases also means that there would be more chances of collector loot.Now that sniping will be dead,you will have much less chance of finding collector loot.

4. "Significant" bonus increase means less overall loot in the economy,BECAUSE,Farmers just don't use GoWiPe and sh*t like that to farm to 70%

5. Because TH sniping won't exist anymore,all farmers in Masters-Titan will go down to crystal,gold and silver.Less farmers=less bases=less loot=more clouding=less league bonus generation=less pushers=less loot in economy=Backfire of SC's plan

6. Until now,nothing has been revealed to subtitute TH sniping loot generation(LEAGUE BONUS INCREASE DOESN'T COUNT).I'd like to stress here because people can't differentiate between GENERATION and CIRCULATION Generation means more loot in cash economy whereas Circulation means same loot travelling from base to base,while being taxed through army costs and nexting;Thus, LESS LOOT.

7.More expensive armies=more loot burned=less loot in the economy

8.Thanks to TH11 and shiny other things coming,LOTS OF LOOT WILL BE BURNED

9.Unbreakable achievement (2 and 3 stars) much more difficult to achieve due to village guard

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Nice analysis, except no. 9 maybe? You could be an economist someday maybe?

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Originally Posted by Masky

So,what do you say,real chiefs ?:smirk:

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I say, “Who is GreedGrim ?”.

I have to say I didn't foresee the trophy dropping as a major issue pre update... Post update it was bad. I'm thinking it may have settled down now ?

remember the co of sc does not play the game....that tells a lot

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Originally Posted by Lloopy14

I have to say I didn't foresee the trophy dropping as a major issue pre update... Post update it was bad. I'm thinking it may have settled down now ?

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Nope,try going down to silver.TH6s are being bumped to gold2-1.

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Originally Posted by OzAudi

I say, “Who is GreedGrim ?”.

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$€!:smirk:

I'm using GiBarch to always get the 70% and thus the full league bonus. I'm a TH9, if I can do it so can the rest.

Nice analysis
♥♥♥♥♥♥cell should've hired you before throwing this s*it update at us. :D

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Originally Posted by NinetyEight

Nice analysis
♥♥♥♥♥♥cell should've hired you before throwing this s*it at us. :D

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I would've done the job for 20 cents !:p

th sniping remooved junk base from the matchmaking . now you need to next 10-50 time throught those before finding the good ones .
base with lootnever hided with th sniping cause people attaque you anyway when you have loot . except in high league when league bonus is hight . but in lowleague . th sneaping remooved junk bases from the matchmaking and it was easier to find good bases .
and yes loot is draining from the economie very fast . the gem boost fooled some poeple . and they are getting milked while we talk . i din't gem boost my collectors . i don't gonna sacrifice my gem to save a colapsing economie

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Originally Posted by TheFishlord

I'm using GiBarch to always get the 70% and thus the full league bonus. I'm a TH9, if I can do it so can the rest.

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This is the type of mentality that ruined our game.Everybody doesn't use gibarch.Many people were using barch to farm in the high leagues to get the full bonus,so that meant a reduction of loot bonus for them.So they went down to silver and are now getting bumped to gold everytime they log off.

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Originally Posted by Masky

I would've done the job for 20 cents !:p

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It seems like they would pay you nothing since they love their money in their pockets only. :D

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Originally Posted by Endle185

Sorry to say this but u r a rubbish farmer. I can tell u use to hit collectors with no skill barching.
im a th 10 Barch everything. The key is to know how to Barch and know what to hit. Have a good day. We won't miss the rubbish players. I'm doing 1-2 magnas a day from a 2 hr boost, high lvl hero a week and keep the builders doing there stuff. 2 hrs a day, that's all

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Pre-update rubbish farmers could survive.Those 'rubbish' farmers used to play 1-3 times a day and could upgrade their walls without much pain.Now they can't,and that's the reason your clan chat is empty.

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Originally Posted by NinetyEight

It seems like they would pay you nothing since they love their money in their pockets only. :D

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Poor Jonas.I bet he designed the update on an empty stomach :smirk:.

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Originally Posted by AmineYa

th sniping remooved junk base from the matchmaking . now you need to next 10-50 time throught those before finding the good ones .
base with lootnever hided with th sniping cause people attaque you anyway when you have loot . except in high league when league bonus is hight . but in lowleague . th sneaping remooved junk bases from the matchmaking and it was easier to find good bases .
and yes loot is draining from the economie very fast . the gem boost fooled some poeple . and they are getting milked while we talk . i din't gem boost my collectors . i don't gonna sacrifice my gem to save a colapsing economie

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Im not boosting collector neither.I'll get milked instantly lolXD.

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Originally Posted by Masky

So,what do you say,real chiefs ?:smirk:

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I’ve amended my response. Now I say, “Your sock puppet need darning GreedGrim err Masky err GreedG....”

Gloating leads to mistakes too

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Originally Posted by Endle185

Sorry to say this but u r a rubbish farmer. I can tell u use to hit collectors with no skill barching.
im a th 10 Barch everything. The key is to know how to Barch and know what to hit. Have a good day. We won't miss the rubbish players. I'm doing 1-2 magnas a day from a 2 hr boost, high lvl hero a week and keep the builders doing there stuff. 2 hrs a day, that's all

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So tell us how many attacks you do per defence?

And then consider that mathematically the AVERAGE attacks per defence must be 1. About half of players must attack less than once per defence. If they didn't it would be clouds everywhere.

2 hours solid boost per day is not average; and not normal. I bet 95% of players in the game do less than that.

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Originally Posted by OzAudi

I’ve amended my response. Now I say, “Your sock puppet need darning GreedGrim err Masky err GreedG....”

Gloating leads to mistakes too

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Wait a sec,Ill find a good quote on google and come back....:p

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Originally Posted by Masky

What are you trying to say ? It is inevitable that the economy has become broken after update,and the fact that dead bases AND storage bases are becoming rarer.You can find many constructive threads on this subject.What you found might just be luck.Proof or it didnt happen

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Prove what ? That some are doing good? Read the forums for proof I have no need to lie. My th9 does well my th8 is doing horrible. There were always huge imbalances in the game before the update, many, a perfect "but small" example is(giants) giants progression isn't linear, they get a huge upgrade between 5/6, my maxed th9 doesn't get totally destroyed by a maxed th10 with a farming load out. My maxed th8 stands no chance at all against level 6 giants, 100% gone every single time. a th9 should not be able to face roll a th8 with simple quick farming troops. Town hall sniping was stupid and needed to go but supercell went about this all wrong. 3 years they left it in place, that's 3 years they could have been balancing game mechanics, but didn't. Adding more loot to actual collectors not leaving in dead bases. That's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ed. I wanna play against other people not dead bases. I want to crack real players base setups not pop a townhall.

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Originally Posted by Horneddog

You was basically wrong, th sniping hid the games major imbalances not the loot. As to why some are doing ok and some aren't. Might maxed th9 has no issues finding loot, my maxed th8 is getting hammered and unable to keep loot.

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Originally Posted by Bohannon

The game was fundamentally flawed at its core. TH sniping was something that needed to be fixed, I think we can all agree with that. However; we NEEDED TH sniping for the loot bonus. They need to raise league bonuses!

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I have to agree with this... TH sniping did cover up some fundamental flaws in the game and the resource systems currently in place

A war game of attacking AND defending appears that it can't function unless:
1) defends don't cause you to actually lose your (stolen!) resources most of the time
2) bases of players who have given up are available

The TH sniping 'system' caused these two issues to be overlooked...I strongly believe that now it's gone (for good I hope), sustainable decent loot injection systems will come into place

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Originally Posted by Horneddog

Prove what ? That some are doing good? Read the forums for proof I have no need to lie. My th9 does well my th8 is doing horrible. There were always huge imbalances in the game before the update, many, a perfect "but small" example is(giants) giants progression isn't linear, they get a huge upgrade between 5/6, my maxed th9 doesn't get totally destroyed by a maxed th10 with a farming load out. My maxed th8 stands no chance at all against level 6 giants, 100% gone every single time. a th9 should not be able to face roll a th8 with simple quick farming troops. Town hall sniping was stupid and needed to go but supercell went about this all wrong. 3 years they left it in place, that's 3 years they could have been balancing game mechanics, but didn't. Adding more loot to actual collectors not leaving in dead bases. That's ♥♥♥♥♥♥ed. I wanna play against other people not dead bases. I want to crack real players base setups not pop a townhall.

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I agree that th sniping needed to be gone,but not be balanced with the solutions ♥♥♥ came up with.Also what the hell are you trying to explain up there^^? That defending is inbalanced ?

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Originally Posted by TheFishlord

LOL. Cry me a river.

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Im sure YOU will,after you get banned.NEVER try to troll a troll.:smirk::smirk:

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Originally Posted by OzAudi

I’ve amended my response. Now I say, “Your sock puppet need darning GreedGrim err Masky err GreedG....”

Gloating leads to mistakes too

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Here's a much better one : "Gloating is a superficial glowing, floating is an idle flowing, and bloatedness is the paralysis of blowing up; because silent movement results in loud victories."

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Originally Posted by Masky

I agree that th sniping needed to be gone,but not be balanced with the solutions ♥♥♥ came up with.Also what the hell are you trying to explain up there^^? That defending is inbalanced ?

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Yeah defending and loot creation, it was always imbalanced, th sniping just hid that fact with a permanent shield system. Thats why you have some doing well and some that can't progress and neither side is lying they just see different results. The problem, like I stated " isn't the solutions that they came up with, it's the solutions they didn't come up with because they let th sniping go on for too long.

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Originally Posted by Horneddog

Yeah defending and loot creation, it was always imbalanced, th sniping just hid that fact with a permanent shield system. Thats why you have some doing well and some that can't progress and neither side is lying they just see different results. The problem, like I stated " isn't the solutions that they came up with, it's the solutions they didn't come up with because they let th sniping go on for too long.

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Yeah th sniping went for too long,and they didn't manage to come up with a proper solution.But now that they have screwed up,us clashers have suggested a HOTFIX,but still dead silence from SC....

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Originally Posted by Masky

Yeah,this actually got a bit more easier due to 29% trolls:rolleyes:

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Actually, not the 29% trolls. Its the mass exodus of trophy dropping. I have mates that cannot stay in a League of their choosing. Log off and constant single troop dropping. Gaining 50, 60 "unbreakable" :rolleyes: points a day.

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Originally Posted by cnaf

Actually, not the 29% trolls. Its the mass exodus of trophy dropping. I have mates that cannot stay in a League of their choosing. Log off and constant single troop dropping. Gaining 50, 60 "unbreakable" :rolleyes: points a day.

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But hey,this is the way the game was intented to be played.Well,at least Im grateful for the extra gems.

I'm getting better loot than before update, so game economy can't be totally broken.

Anyways, i never relied on collectors or sniping. Got no time to attacks hours after hours.

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Originally Posted by Masky

Yeah th sniping went for too long,and they didn't manage to come up with a proper solution.But now that they have screwed up,us clashers have suggested a HOTFIX,but still dead silence from SC....

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They are going to have no choice but to either fix it or lose big time. problem is there really isn't a one size fits all fix. Just about every problem they solve will create more issues. The shield system they implemented via "village guard" and "attack through shield" ♥♥♥♥ seems to me like a temp fix until they can revamp some core problems, like units and loot creation. Even the Pbt seems ignorant. Kicking people out of your store is just plain stupid.

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Originally Posted by Kaagelus

I'm getting better loot than before update, so game economy can't be totally broken.

Anyways, i never relied on collectors or sniping. Got no time to attacks hours after hours.

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Gem boost is making things better,for now.Before it,majority of people say loot was better post-update.Also,proof or it didn't happen.:straightface:

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Originally Posted by Horneddog

They are going to have no choice but to either fix it or lose big time. problem is there really isn't a one size fits all fix. Just about every problem they solve will create more issues. The shield system they implemented via "village guard" and "attack through shield" ♥♥♥♥ seems to me like a temp fix until they can revamp some core problems, like units and loot creation. Even the Pbt seems ignorant. Kicking people out of your store is just plain stupid.

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If they are looking for customer feedback on forums they would be even more baffled as to what the fixes should be:

- Hardcore players saying it's made them casual
- Casual players saying they have to become hardcore
- Farming is apparently not farming if you're in higher leagues
- Update was made for trophy pushers
- Update is worse for trophy pushers
- Update forces you to spend gems
- Update has made the spending of gems pointless
- In high leagues you need to play for long sessions
- In high leagues you can only play for 5 mins every 2 hours

All of the above are discussed as real issues for players...If I was SC looking at them I would genuinely just be, "eh?!"

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Originally Posted by Chris4stars85

If they are looking for customer feedback on forums they would be even more baffled as to what the fixes should be:

- Hardcore players saying it's made them casual
- Casual players saying they have to become hardcore
- Farming is apparently not farming if you're in higher leagues
- Update was made for trophy pushers
- Update is worse for trophy pushers
- Update forces you to spend gems
- Update has made the spending of gems pointless
- In high leagues you need to play for long sessions
- In high leagues you can only play for 5 mins every 2 hours

All of the above are discussed as real issues for players...If I was SC looking at them I would genuinely just be, "eh?!"

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"Everything on the internet is true,and you have to believe it is true"

A classic saying^.Seriously though,that's actually how berzerk this game has been.Everything is upside down,that's the truth.
I'll agree completely with only point 6.

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Originally Posted by Masky

"Everything on the internet is true,and you have to believe it is true"

A classic saying^.Seriously though,that's actually how berzerk this game has been.Everything is upside down,that's the truth.
I'll agree completely with only point 6.

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Haha, and amusingly the update has had the complete opposite effect for me... gems just aren't needed at all, and certainly not tempting to use anymore 👍🏻

Just shows how different peoples situations are

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Originally Posted by Chris4stars85

Haha, and amusingly the update has had the complete opposite effect for me... gems just aren't needed at all, and certainly not tempting to use anymore ����

Just shows how different peoples situations are

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It depends on what kind of player you are,actually.I bet you're hardcore/pusher.You use big armies.

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Originally Posted by Lloopy14

I have to say I didn't foresee the trophy dropping as a major issue pre update... Post update it was bad. I'm thinking it may have settled down now ?

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All the th10/11 dropped to gold/silver to find the same bad looting and same not fun game to play. The news of bad loot travels just as fast as good.

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Originally Posted by Masky

It depends on what kind of player you are,actually.I bet you're hardcore/pusher.You use big armies.

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Nope, previous I was a hardcore farmer and enjoyed many a boosting session in masters3 to farm (with a very cheap army...gobs and archers, no need for heros all the time)

Now I'm a casual pusher/farmer in higher leagues making enough loot to keep all my builders busy - 10 attacks over 3 days seems to be the norm just now (I consider that to be casual, I'm barely online now)

Boosting to me now is pointless, still have to wait half an hour inbetween attacks...so I'd rather just attack and log off and do something productive in real life

Im max th10, now th11, and like clashwithash, finding farming up there pretty easy and very lucrative

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Originally Posted by Chris4stars85

Nope, previous I was a hardcore farmer and enjoyed many a boosting session in masters3 to farm (with a very cheap army...gobs and archers, no need for heros all the time)

Now I'm a casual pusher/farmer in higher leagues making enough loot to keep all my builders busy - 10 attacks over 3 days seems to be the norm just now (I consider that to be casual, I'm barely online now)

Boosting to me now is pointless, still have to wait half an hour inbetween attacks...so I'd rather just attack and log off and do something productive in real life

Im max th10, now th11, and like clashwithash, finding farming up there pretty easy and very lucrative

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Well,good luck with life bro :thumbsup::)

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Originally Posted by Masky

Well,good luck with life bro :thumbsup::)

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You too, this will all sort itself out in no time at all 👍🏻 SC aren't that daft

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8.Thanks to TH11 and shiny other things coming,LOTS OF LOOT WILL BE BURNED

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This just doesn't make any sense and isn't consistent with any sound understanding of economics (theoretical economics are essentially important to a game such as this. World of Warcraft actually triggered a period of synthetic hyperinflation akin to the Weimar Republic.)

The "th11" and "other shiny things" do not 'burn' loot. True, those resources are taken out of the economy, but they were not lost; they were converted from a consumable to capital improvements due to suppression and investment.

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All the th10/11 dropped to gold/silver to find the same bad looting and same not fun game to play. The news of bad loot travels just as fast as good.

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I'm a th9 and I dropped to bronze. It really depends on what you mean by "good loot." My entire clan has been living off of "good-not-great" barching raids prior to boosting and the boosts have just elevated them. By my usage:

"great": 250k elixir, 250k gold, 2k dark elixir
"good": 100k elixir, 100k gold, 800 dark elixir.

Been barching "good" targets left and right in silver and bronze since the Big Nerf.

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Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis

This just doesn't make any sense and isn't consistent with any sound understanding of economics (theoretical economics are essentially important to a game such as this. World of Warcraft actually triggered a period of synthetic hyperinflation akin to the Weimar Republic.)

The "th11" and "other shiny things" do not 'burn' loot. True, those resources are taken out of the economy, but they were not lost; they were converted from a consumable to capital improvements due to suppression and investment.

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In other words, he spent all his loots!

There is much less loot now, and there is data (both official and unofficial) to prove it. I hope SC tweaks it or goes back to the old multiplayer system. So disappointed. Other observations:

The complete change in the way the game is played in multiplayer has really thrown me, and most of the folks I interact with, for a loop. It seems best for the upper levels (champ and above) since there are more bases available for attacking (no white clouds for 20 minutes), but not for the lower folks. I am an extremely active an addicted player but also have a life outside of clan, so I budget my time. I lived by the TH snipe to help me get through and manage my 6 accounts. This new system is unreliable and frustrating. I also spend about $20 a month but refuse to pour money into the game now until Im' sure I'll continue playing it in the future. Here is some data I've collected based on my personal observations, but also verified by my clanmates:

- My junior TH11 is getting crushed. I can't save for any major upgrade right now. Just getting picked off at every level (Champion down to Silver...I've tried). BARCH farming is dead for TH10 and TH11. So I have to conduct elaborate attacks and I only have time for 1-2 a day. Going to focus on upgrading the cannon, wiz tower, and archer tower, and invest elixir into Grand Warden and walls. Can't save for Eagle Artillery right now, or research lab upgrade.

- I have two max TH9s. They are doing just fine. I invest all of my resources into walls and they rarely get raided. It's annoying to plan for wars, however, because I never know when I will get a shield. But that's a minor gripe.

- My mid TH9 is getting crushed. Can't save for any major upgrades so just investing in walls.

- My low / slightly rushed TH9 and low TH8 are just getting obliterated. Can't save for ANY significant upgrades. It's depressing. Close to giving up on the game all together.

Really miss the old way. Was their really any outrage in the community over the old system? I think SC was trying to accommodate the "whales'...their money makers...in the champion / titan league, along with trying to reduce bot farming so players spend their money on gems, but it could cost them in the long run. I only play for wars and the social aspect now, but without being able to do significant upgrades I'm worried I'll lost interest.

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Originally Posted by Horneddog

In other words, he spent all his loots!

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This.Capital doesn't apply in CoC.

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Originally Posted by Horneddog

In other words, he spent all his loots!

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your point? The resources get sunk from the game, but they don't get sunk via consumables. They get sunk via structural improvements. That's not the same as "burning."

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Capital doesn't apply in CoC.

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Sure it does. This game is nothing but a perpetual arms race.

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Originally Posted by Johnnyfsullivan

There is much less loot now, and there is data (both official and unofficial) to prove it. I hope SC tweaks it or goes back to the old multiplayer system. So disappointed. Other observations:

The complete change in the way the game is played in multiplayer has really thrown me, and most of the folks I interact with, for a loop. It seems best for the upper levels (champ and above) since there are more bases available for attacking (no white clouds for 20 minutes), but not for the lower folks. I am an extremely active an addicted player but also have a life outside of clan, so I budget my time. I lived by the TH snipe to help me get through and manage my 6 accounts. This new system is unreliable and frustrating. I also spend about $20 a month but refuse to pour money into the game now until Im' sure I'll continue playing it in the future. Here is some data I've collected based on my personal observations, but also verified by my clanmates:

- My junior TH11 is getting crushed. I can't save for any major upgrade right now. Just getting picked off at every level (Champion down to Silver...I've tried). BARCH farming is dead for TH10 and TH11. So I have to conduct elaborate attacks and I only have time for 1-2 a day. Going to focus on upgrading the cannon, wiz tower, and archer tower, and invest elixir into Grand Warden and walls. Can't save for Eagle Artillery right now, or research lab upgrade.

- I have two max TH9s. They are doing just fine. I invest all of my resources into walls and they rarely get raided. It's annoying to plan for wars, however, because I never know when I will get a shield. But that's a minor gripe.

- My mid TH9 is getting crushed. Can't save for any major upgrades so just investing in walls.

- My low / slightly rushed TH9 and low TH8 are just getting obliterated. Can't save for ANY significant upgrades. It's depressing. Close to giving up on the game all together.

Really miss the old way. Was their really any outrage in the community over the old system? I think SC was trying to accommodate the "whales'...their money makers...in the champion / titan league, along with trying to reduce bot farming so players spend their money on gems, but it could cost them in the long run. I only play for wars and the social aspect now, but without being able to do significant upgrades I'm worried I'll lost interest.

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Actually,high league(champ1+) players are suffering too,as many max TH10/11 came down to bronze

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Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis

Sure it does. This game is nothing but a perpetual arms race.

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When you finish dumping all loot inside your TH,can I now take that loot? The answer is no,so your answer is irrelevant.That loot was removed from the economy,that is,lost forever.period.Its not that I don't understand what you're trying to say,but rather,that those laws don't exactly apply here.

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Originally Posted by Masky

Pre-update rubbish farmers could survive.Those 'rubbish' farmers used to play 1-3 times a day and could upgrade their walls without much pain.Now they can't,and that's the reason your clan chat is empty.

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This...

Those rubbish farmers (casuals) make up the largest segment of the player population IMO and we (SC and hardcore players) need them if the game is to thrive...

Just my two 2 halala...

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Originally Posted by Masky

When you finish dumping all loot inside your TH,can I now take that loot? The answer is no,so your answer is irrelevant.That loot was removed from the economy,that is,lost forever.period.Its not that I don't understand what you're trying to say,but rather,that those laws don't exactly apply here.

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...but spending your resources prior to other people stealing them is an essential part of the game. What would you do with your loot after you stole it? You'd start an upgrade and you'd be the one to take it out of the economy.

So my job is to stop you from doing that and steal all that I can from you before you can start your next upgrade so I can use it to start my own.

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Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis

...but spending your resources prior to other people stealing them is an essential part of the game. What would you do with your loot after you stole it? You'd start an upgrade and you'd be the one to take it out of the economy.

So my job is to stop you from doing that and steal everything you've got before you can start your next upgrade so I can use it to start my own.

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And this is exactly what the new system wants to prevent.It wants the loot to pass through a thousand hands,all the while being burned(This time,I mean,BURNED,)by nexting costs and army costs.At the end of the day,elixir profit goes down by 2000%{figure of speech}

You were, but no still no one with a loud voice wants to hear you.

The game's made by people who cant even attack lol. How do you expect Supercell to get solid research on the updates they put out when non of their developers even bother to spend time playing the game like the average person. We've all seen the events.... Developers suck at the game...

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Originally Posted by iOSConfirmNotShowing

You were, but no still no one with a loud voice wants to hear you.

The game's made by people who cant even attack lol. How do you expect Supercell to get solid research on the updates they put out when non of their developers even bother to spend time playing the game like the average person. We've all seen the events.... Developers suck at the game...

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Agreed.If the devs had attacked with the lvl 3 witches before releasing the update,they would have realized they were OP

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And this is exactly what the new system wants to prevent.It wants the loot to pass through a thousand hands,all the while being burned(This time,I mean,BURNED,)by nexting costs and army costs.At the end of the day,elixir profit goes down by 2000%{figure of speech}

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So....I use the term "burn" differently than you do. Sure, I get what you're saying. Yes, endless nexting sinks gold but there are very few gold sinks in the game in the first place, so this shouldn't really be a big problem. Army costs have not risen for me so this doesn't impact me. I always used war armies on revenges and I always used giants, barbs, archers, and gobs during the few attacks I initiated.

When I say that I "burn" resources, what I mean is that I target a specific upgrade to be my next one and I spend everything I have of the other 2 so that they don't accumulate in storage until my targeted upgrade is started.

I always wonder why people try and equate the economy of this game to real life...some claim to be economy's of sorts, some im convinced just read a few wiki pages

When resources are spent in this game, it is essentially burnt...It is not an asset, it is not something that is worth anything to anyone in the CoC economy. The resource transaction is completely separate from the economy, it disappears to the magical CoC bank never to be seen again

It appears people are trying to make this out to be much more complicated than it actually is

*edit* - in short, who in the economy 'profits' from the spending of resources? (on anything other than collectors) answer...no one.

*2nd edit* fixed some typo and autocorrections!

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Originally Posted by Chris4stars85

I always wonder why people try and equate the economy of this game to real life...some claim to be economy's of sorts, some im convinced just read a few wiki pages

When resources are spent in this game, it is essentially burnt...It is not an asset, it is not something that is worth anything to anyone in the CoC economy. The resource transaction to quite this asset is completely separate from the economy, it disappears to the magical CoC bank never to be seen again

It appears people are trying to make this out to be much more complicated than it actually is

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Haha you're right budXD

I can't believe how stupid people are:facepalm:x1000. To those of you who thought I stole this post : http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...=1#post5932439

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Originally Posted by Chris4stars85

I always wonder why people try and equate the economy of this game to real life...some claim to be economy's of sorts, some im convinced just read a few wiki pages
When resources are spent in this game, it is essentially burnt...It is not an asset, it is not something that is worth anything to anyone in the CoC economy. The resource transaction is completely separate from the economy, it disappears to the magical CoC bank never to be seen again

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What you said above is absolute jibberish.

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It appears people are trying to make this out to be much more complicated than it actually is

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Video games economies are actually pretty heavily studied because they can be made to move very, very quickly with very minimal real harm done if the virtual economy is completely destroyed by errant changes to the modelers' ideas for the system. For instance, the World of Warcraft virtual economy experienced a period of hyperinflation (the cause is not germane) and the period data from that game is real information that is still being studied for theoretical insight.

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*edit* - in short, who in the economy 'profits' from the spending of resources? (on anything other than collectors) answer...no one.

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You apparently don't know what profit is; in this case, the person who profits is the person who dedicated resources to the permanent upgrade.

The economy has been screwed.. Let's be honest.

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Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis

What you said above is absolute jibberish.

Video games economies are actually pretty heavily studied because they can be made to move very, very quickly with very minimal real harm done if the virtual economy is completely destroyed by errant changes to the modelers' ideas for the system. For instance, the World of Warcraft virtual economy experienced a period of hyperinflation (the cause is not germane) and the period data from that game is real information that is still being studied for theoretical insight.
Heavily studied yes,but not in SC.They f*cked up twice with the economy.When they brought elixir walls and now.
You apparently don't know what profit is; in this case, the person who profits is the person who dedicated resources to the permanent upgrade.
Agreed here.He didnt view it from an economy's perspective

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Edits:some quote highlighting

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Originally Posted by Bohannon

The game was fundamentally flawed at its core. TH sniping was something that needed to be fixed, I think we can all agree with that. However; we NEEDED TH sniping for the loot bonus. They need to raise league bonuses!

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Your absolutely correct. Th sniping needed to go because it was too easy, but removing it failed because all of the league bonuses that are not available now.

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Originally Posted by Tencwhiskey

Your absolutely correct. Th sniping needed to go because it was too easy, but removing it failed because all of the league bonuses that are not available now.

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Agree with you both:thumbsup::thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis

What you said above is absolute jibberish.

video games economies are actually pretty heavily studied because they can be made to move very, very quickly with very minimal real harm done if the virtual economy is completely destroyed by errant changes to the modelers' ideas for the system.

You apparently don't know what profit is; in this case, the person who profits is the person who dedicated resources to the permanent upgrade.

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Hmmm.... I read it and it made sense, so try and refrain from the insults ok?

the latter part of what you wrote doesn't exactly sound clear in what you're trying to convey, but I'll not mention anything insulting of that

I know what profit is...please don't insult my intelligence. We are talking about economic profit here.

Transactions in the real world are nothing like CoC. Maybe in other games they are, but not here...The economy is always about two way transactions between buyers/sellers. Both sides 'profit'...one with the product, one with the money.

Money in the economy is not lost in a transaction...it's just handed round. (It's not even that really! A bank note is purely an IOU!)

Using an analogy, resources in this game are very much like food...Food is grown via collectors and given to the General CoC population via various systems. We are currently all fighting over it.

Soon as we gain enough, we make a meal (building) and eat. That food is now gone for good. It benefited us and no one else. We give absolutely nothing back to the CoC Population (other than having a bigger appetite for our next meal) and we either continue to battle for food or leave.

It's as simple as that...maybe that makes it easier to follow.

I think the bottom line is that they were way too ambitious with a single update because they wanted to have a really big "splash" change to coincide with their Conference.

I actually agree with SuperCell's stated reason for removing the th shield from the game. When I first started playing, it really irked me that in a game whose fundamental dynamic is "protect your base and your resources; attack other bases and steal their resources" that the most basic strategy was to leave your core building unprotected. I participated too, because it made sense with the game dynamics of May 2014.

Right after the Big Nerf on December 10th, I was irate at this game because I was violating my #1 rule: make sure that there are no resources for anyone to steal except for the one that I am trying to use for my next upgrade. When the update hit, I was caught between 3 upgrades at the beginning of th9 and I was using the easy shields from snipers to float from shield to shield. I was targeting a level 2 XBow and I was floating at 4.25M gold. I was targeting Level 4 dragons and I was floating at 5M elixir, and I was trying to get my queen to level 5 all at the same time....and I was farming in Crystal. When the free shields went away and everyone but me dropped to bronze(I didn't get the memo) my base was a disaster area. I was hit by queen walk after queen walk and max gowipe after max gowipe. Trophy droppers kept pushing me up to crystal and I kept getting smashed. The solution was to abort my planned upgrades and go back to basics. I dumped all of my gold into walls (got my storages under 1k) I dumped my elixir into a level 4 drill upgrade, and then I dropped to bronze.

Everything kind of settled out when I stopped my base from being a honeypot.
I'm still revenging for ~300k gold and elixir and 2500 de and I'm still finding good targets in the 100k gold/100k elixir range that can be taken with barbs, archers, giants, and gobs. The fact of the matter is that I don't suck at attacking, so I never experienced any "omg! the loot dried up!!!" period. I was just having my base get smashed over and over by max th9s and was in a "1 step forward; 2 steps back" period where my collection from shields did not make up for the loot I lost in the defense.

Still getting about 1M every 2 days from wars. Still getting about 200k every day from mines and collectors. Still planning on dumping all of my gold into walls to keep it from sitting in storage.

Three weeks after the update, not much has changed for my economy.

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Originally Posted by Chris4stars85

Hmmm.... I read it and it made sense, so try and refrain from the insults ok?

the latter part of what you wrote doesn't exactly sound clear in what you're trying to convey, but I'll not mention anything insulting of that

I know what profit is...please don't insult my intelligence. We are talking about economic profit here.

Transactions in the real world are nothing like CoC. Maybe in other games they are, but not here...The economy is always about two way transactions between buyers/sellers. Both sides 'profit'...one with the product, one with the money.

Money in the economy is not lost in a transaction...it's just handed round. (It's not even that really! A bank note is purely an IOU!)

Using an analogy, resources in this game are very much like food...Food is grown via collectors and given to the General CoC population via various systems. We are currently all fighting over it.

Soon as we gain enough, we make a meal (building) and eat. That food is now gone for good. It benefited us and no one else. We give absolutely nothing back to the CoC Population (other than having a bigger appetite for our next meal) and we either continue to battle for food or leave.

It's as simple as that...maybe that makes it easier to follow.

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This conveyed everything better.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

(let me just consolidate my final thoughts here rather than make other follow ups)

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The economy is always about two way transactions between buyers/sellers. Both sides 'profit'...one with the product, one with the money.

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What you mentioned above is true of the basic case of reciprocally inequal, voluntary exchange. But what you are speaking of doesn't account for unilateral, individual actions that do not involve a secondary party. All "economic" activity is borne out of scarcity. All human actions follow from economic thought (primarily because our time is the scarcest resource we have. All actions are at the cost of other alternative uses of that time because it cannot be reclaimed to be spent again) So, -using this admittedly silly game (in the grand scheme of things) to discuss something larger- the person who chooses to click the button to say "yep, I want to start that upgrade" is making the economical decision that he values the upgrade being started higher than the opportunity costs of holding those resources in storage. In this case, the exchange is entirely internal and the profit is psychic. But it still exists.


...This exchange has already gotten a lot deeper than I expected lol

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When resources are spent in this game, it is essentially burnt...It is not an asset, it is not something that is worth anything to anyone in the CoC economy. The resource transaction to quite this asset is completely separate from the economy, it disappears to the magical CoC bank never to be seen again

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This is what I was noting as gibberish. What you said is fundamentally untrue. Spending in-game resources on upgrades is converting them into a game asset. A level 11 archer tower is (perceived to be) worth at least as much to a player playing the game as the 4.5M gold to start it or it wouldn't be started. Level 4 dragons are (perceived as) worth at least 7M elixir to the player that chooses that upgrade over other options or it wouldn't be started. Your idea of economy is too narrow. You're only looking at player-v-player exchange of resources rather than understanding that me choosing to spend all my gold on walls is a subjective value judgment that spending them on walls is a better use of that gold right now than saving it for a more expensive upgrade.

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Using an analogy, resources in this game are very much like food...Food is grown via collectors and given to the General CoC population via various systems. We are currently all fighting over it.

Soon as we gain enough, we make a meal (building) and eat. That food is now gone for good. It benefited us and no one else. We give absolutely nothing back to the CoC Population (other than having a bigger appetite for our next meal) and we either continue to battle for food or leave.

It's as simple as that...maybe that makes it easier to follow.

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Food is a pretty decent analogy, but you make what I consider to be a poor conclusion from that analogy. Since this is purely a game and I have zero compassion for players that do not serve my own interests (my clan mates), I don't have to care if they "starve." All of my food is for my own personal consumption and if you take any of it, I will do everything I can to steal it back from you so that I can gorge myself and I will watch you wither and die hungry in the gutter if you try to take what is mine. In a real life "eat or die" scenario, human compassion comes into play. But not here. I protect my own resources by very rarely raiding anyone (only to top off upgrades when I get really, really close) I wait for others to hit me and then I revenge them if it serves my interests to do so (I'm not gonna send in a full drag army to take back 10k gold, for instance)

The major downside to this past upgrade to me is that I lose a lot of extremely profitable revenges to make against th snipers that only took 1k or 2k resources and a handful of trophies. I made my living off of revenging th snipers for 250k+

Others consider profitable raids to be the better way to go, but I don't consider it a very good use of my time. Most of my resources come from war loot (about 1M gold, 1M elixir, and 3200 de per) and from managing my storages so that the resource I want to use for my next upgrade is heavily protected and the empty storages are used to slow attackers and decoy them into giving me a shield so I can collect my resources unthreatened.

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Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis

"1 step forward; 2 steps back" period where my collection from shields did not make up for the loot I lost in the defense.

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Sorry to hear about this... As it stands, unless you're in a high league, players will be divided almost 50/50 between 1back/2forward and 2back/1forward....ie, for all those losing, there is now those winning as a result

watch this space...in expecting better league bonuses/defensive bonuses or something else to inject loot back 👍🏻

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Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis

What you mentioned above is true of the basic case of reciprocally inequal, voluntary exchange. But what you are speaking of doesn't account for unilateral, individual actions that do not involve a secondary party. All "economic" activity is borne out of scarcity. All human actions follow from economic thought (primarily because our time is the scarcest resource we have.) So, -using this admittedly silly game (in the grand scheme of things) to discuss something larger- the person who chooses to click the button to say "yep, I want to start that upgrade" is making the economical decision that he values the upgrade being started higher than the opportunity costs of holding those resources in storage. In this case, the exchange is entirely internal and the profit is psychic. But it still exists.

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At this point you can stop talking about clash from an economist's point of view.That's not the way it was 'intended' to be viewed:rolleyes:.

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Originally Posted by Chris4stars85

Sorry to hear about this... As it stands, unless you're in a high league, players will be divided almost 50/50 between 1back/2forward and 2back/1forward....ie, for all those losing, there is now those winning as a result

watch this space...in expecting better league bonuses/defensive bonuses or something else to inject loot back 👍🏻

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Yeah,Im hoping for this to happen too:(:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by DraakarDraekonis

(let me just consolidate my final thoughts here rather than make other follow ups)

This is what I was noting as gibberish. What you said is fundamentally untrue. Spending in-game resources on upgrades is converting them into a game asset. A level 11 archer tower is (perceived to be) worth at least as much to a player playing the game as the 4.5M gold to start it or it wouldn't be started. Level 4 dragons are (perceived as) worth at least 7M elixir to the player that chooses that upgrade over other options or it wouldn't be started. Your idea of economy is too narrow. You're only looking at player-v-player exchange of resources rather than understanding that me choosing to spend all my gold on walls is a subjective value judgment that spending them on walls is a better use of that gold right now than saving it for a more expensive upgrade.

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That's where you are trying to apply the real world to a game that works very differently. Guns, troop upgrades etc are not assets in any meaningful sense. They do not generate any return for the economy at large, and they cannot be sold on or realised in any way. The "money" spent on them is gone and can never be recouped by the player or anyone else.
It may be a value judgement for me that the archer tower upgrades is worthwhile, but the gold spent on it is gone from circulation within the game, never to return.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

That's where you are trying to apply the real world to a game that works very differently. Guns, troop upgrades etc are not assets in any meaningful sense. They do not generate any return for the economy at large, and they cannot be sold on or realised in any way. The "money" spent on them is gone and can never be recouped by the player or anyone else.
It may be a value judgement for me that the archer tower upgrades is worthwhile, but the gold spent on it is gone from circulation within the game, never to return.

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Almost ironically, these 'assets' not only don't generate anything for the economy...they assist in the removal of resources in the game! Ie. killing troops and reducing the chance of a league bonus

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Originally Posted by Chris4stars85

Almost ironically, these 'assets' not only don't generate anything for the economy...they assist in the removal of resources in the game! Ie. killing troops and reducing the chance of a league bonus

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haha,well said:thumbsup:

(Are we continuing with the economic discussion? Apparently.)

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

That's where you are trying to apply the real world to a game that works very differently.

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Not that the Fed system is one that I agree with, but the "real economy" works by the government destroying notes to take them out of circulation, so your "works differently" claim doesn't hold water.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

Guns, troop upgrades etc are not assets in any meaningful sense. They do not generate any return for the economy at large, and they cannot be sold on or realised in any way.

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This is an equivocation. Generically speaking, a capital asset is one that reduces the amount of labor required to perform some task or one that provides a structural improvement as an intermediate stage towards a higher goal (in this case, the higher goal being "move up in levels.")

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

The "money" spent on them is gone and can never be recouped by the player or anyone else.

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This is irrelevant. Just as the prior provided food analogy, when I eat food the only way you can "recirculate" it is if you eat my...well, you know what you'd have to eat lol.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

It may be a value judgement for me that the archer tower upgrades is worthwhile, but the gold spent on it is gone from circulation within the game, never to return.

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Again, irrelevant. Game economies have to have sufficient sinks to actually destroy resources or progression booms when the float of the aggregate resource pool raises too high. There are insufficient sinks for gold in this game. Currently, you have capital upgrades, trap resets, fairly rare gold-oriented obstacles, and "Next"ing. Elixir and Dark are both sunk by training troops, so their levels are mostly kept in check. But, there really need to be more sinks that pull gold out of circulation, so your complaint is backwards. The faucets continually pour resources in that have to be consumed or the game unbalances and even without them explicitly saying as such, this is what they have done with the last update. Where the player base has a huge gripe is that those who had already passed to th10, have heroes maxed, troops maxed, defenses maxed, and basically had nothing to spend anything on until th11 was released are at a huge advantage by already being through the gate prior to SuperCell slamming it shut. Anyone outside of "very high level th10" status just had the difficulty of topping out increased by several orders of magnitude that the earlier players did not experience.

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Originally Posted by Chris4stars85

Almost ironically, these 'assets' not only don't generate anything for the economy...they assist in the removal of resources in the game! Ie. killing troops and reducing the chance of a league bonus

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You're still looking at this from a very puzzling perspective: lamenting that resources are being sunk from the economy but speaking of it as an aggregate thing...as if an ever increasing pool of resources is the way the game economy should be designed and managed. I'm telling you that it is not, but to quibble that me spending resources on an upgrade for myself is "taking available loot" from you is ludicrous; the only purpose that your loot serves is to start upgrades for yourself, so your complaint is nonsensically positivist. That my resources are supposed to be available for you to take and that me using them before you can take them to use them for yourself is somehow harming you lol.