League Bonuses: Proposed changes with Dec update

I like the direction supercell intends for the update but believe some changes are in order to make their vision more viable. Jonas, and SC want more real attacks and more real defense. I'm all for that and many if not most players probably will be if we feel we can still progress in the game. To that end I suggest

#1: 300+% increase in current offense league bonus
#2: A offense league bonus penalty for attacking THs below you. 25% penalty for 1 TH below, 50% for 2 lvls below and 90% for 3 or more lvls down.
#3 Addition of small dark elixir reward in gold
#4 A defense league bonus for winning a defense. Either 25% of defender lvl troops must be deployed or more then 15% destruction

These changes would encourage strong offense and defense and encourage players to fight for trophies and to push to the highest league they can.

The reward is significant enough to allow players to progress and reward good attacking, and make up for defensive losses, higher costs of stronger armies, etc.

It will also make the game more fun, as most targets will become viable. If you have more time you will search for juicy bases, but casual players in a good league can log on, find a reasonable base, attack and end up with reasonable loot without endless searching.


Analysis of 300% increase:

Another way to look at this is by asking how long it should take a casual player to progress through the game.

At TH9, with 5 builders kept maximally busy for 206 days it takes:

~3.3m Gold per day
~3.3m Elixer per day
~24k DE per day

So, after mines/pumps you need to get

~2.8m Gold per day
~2.8m Elixer per day
~20k DE per day

Max loot per raid from storages:
350K Gold
350K Elixir
2500 DE

Current League Bonus M2
120K Gold
120K Elixir
700 DE

GoHo army
Golem x2 1350 DE
Hogs x27 1755 DE
Poison 125

DE 3230

Wizards x 12 42000 E
WB x 3 9000
Heal x 4 96000

E 147,000

Nexting 50,000+ Gold ??


So a GREAT raid, 100% of loot will net about 300k G&E, and be NEGATIVE 30 DE

So you need roughly 12 attacks per day that DO NOT FAIL, to make up for getting hit 2 x per day, and that is just for G&E, but NEGATIVE on DE.

If you allow that a casual gamer should progress at about half of the maximum rate, they need 6 attacks per day under the current system, which is probably too many and still will result in a loss of DE. A 300% increase in the master 2 league bonus would result in each of the above attacks netting ~540k G&E, and 1400 DE. At 2-4 attacks per day, this is just about right for a casual player to progress at a reasonable rate. And this ASSUMES 2-4 attacks getting all the loot in bases where the MAX LOOT IS AVAILABLE.


An active player under this system would net the same ~540k G&E, and 1400 DE per attack.
8am: If they start the day with 4 hours of shield remaining and have an army trained, they can get in the first attack, and have 1 hour of shield left (not enough time to train a non boosted army), so they suffer an attack and get 16 hr shield.
10am: 1 hr later army is ready, 15hr shield left attack #2, 12 hr shield left
noon: 2 hr army, 10 hr shield left, attack #3, 6 hr of shield left
2pm: 2 hr army training, 4 hr shield left, attack #4, shield broken, defense #2, 16hr shield
4pm: 2hr army training, attack #5, 11 hr shield left
6pm: 2hr army training, attack #6, 5 hr shield remaining
8pm: 2hr army training, attack #7, shield broken, defense #3 16 hr shield

So you can see even a VERY ACTIVE player may get in about 7 attacks per day, but suffer 3 defense. So even with the 300% increase in league bonus and hitting full bases AND getting 100% of the loot, even an active player would struggle to get enough loot to keep progressing at the maximum rate.

This assumes a TH9 would settle out in Masters, which is probably about right since Legend and Titan will be mostly TH11, TH10 will take champs, TH9 will likely settle in Masters, etc...



Analysis if the goal is to minimize NEXTing:

If you want to minimize the amount of nexting players have to do to find a reasonable target, one solution is to increase the league bonus enough, so that as long as you are in a high enough league for your TH level, nearly every base is a viable target (ie Profitable)

So if a base is low on loot (10% of max), it would have:
35k G
35K E
250 DE

If the army cost is held constant and the league bonus is increased 500%:

The net would be about
635k G
488k E
520 DE

This would require (assuming 100% loot and league bonus obtained, and you loose 50% of max loot in 2 raids per day)
4.9 attacks per day to get required gold
6.4 attacks per day to get required elixer
41 attacks per day to get required DE

To me, this says even a 500% increase in league bonuses is viable and fair. Only VERY active players will get 5-6 full army attacks in per day (and if they do, they are likely to suffer a 3rd attack in as well).

Very casual players could get on, get 1 attack in with minimal nexting, have a reasonable shot at making a profit, and advance at a reasonable pace.

The league bonus should be large enough to entice players to push to the highest level they can and encourage the best attacks, minimize the amount of NEXTing required, cover the costs of armies.

This would push lower level players down as they would quickly be crushed when they rise to high.

Instead of barching for collector raids players would be encouraged to play the game as intended and perform real attacks that would actually be profitable.

And trophies would actually mean something.

So as I go back and look at the numbers if there is a 300% increase across levels, they do start to look pretty large.

SC has the numbers, but I would like to know what % of attacks succeed and what % destruction (how much will the average attack get in league bonus), how much does the average army cost at different TH levels (GOWIPE, GOHO, LavaLaLoon, etc...)

I don't think the current league bonuses are high enough, nor is the "significant" increase large enough or significant. You shouldn't have to spend 10, 20, 30 or more min looking for a good target either. The league bonus should be large enough to entice players to the highest level they can achieve, but not make getting loot to easy, and make sure players can still progress at a reasonable rate.

Hey, you commented on my gem based defensive bonus system and said a loot based would be better.

Well I wrote up a system for that too... Tell me what you think? My idea is kind of making attacker & defender battle for the league bonus.

Link
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...Implementation

Next time PM somebody for this type of thing

Looks pretty good, but perhaps 300% is overkill? That's 5400 DE per raid in Champs III, not to mention 540K each.

I'll take 200 percent. Maybe 3 star for 300 percent. There is no loot incentive to push up, attacking with a war composition will result in losing DE net. I'm convinced that war troops will be used less often post update because snipes won't be available to fund DE.

Another way to look at this is by asking how long it should take a casual player to progress through the game.

At TH9, with 5 builders kept maximally busy for 206 days it takes:

~3.3m Gold per day
~3.3m Elixer per day
~24k DE per day

So, after mines/pumps you need to get

~2.8m Gold per day
~2.8m Elixer per day
~20k DE per day

Max loot per raid from storages:
350K Gold
350K Elixir
2500 DE

Current League Bonus M2
120K Gold
120K Elixir
700 DE

GoHo army
Golem x2 1350 DE
Hogs x27 1755 DE
Poison 125

DE 3230

Wizards x 12 42000 E
WB x 3 9000
Heal x 4 96000

E 147,000

Nexting 50,000+ Gold ??


So a GREAT raid, 100% of loot will net about 300k G&E, and be NEGATIVE 30 DE

So you need roughly 12 attacks per day that DO NOT FAIL, to make up for getting hit 2 x per day, and that is just for G&E, but NEGATIVE on DE.

If you allow that a casual gamer should progress at about half of the maximum rate, they need 6 attacks per day under the current system, which is probably too many and still will result in a loss of DE. A 300% increase in the master 2 league bonus would result in each of the above attacks netting ~540k G&E, and 1400 DE. At 2-4 attacks per day, this is just about right for a casual player to progress at a reasonable rate. And this ASSUMES 2-4 attacks getting all the loot in bases where the MAX LOOT IS AVAILABLE.

So I retract my retraction, 300% increases, seem about right.

Next time put this type of thing in your thread:facepalm:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Temur

Next time put this type of thing in your thread:facepalm:

---

Agreed, and done with additional analysis for active players

Analysis of Active Player:

An active player under this system would net the same ~540k G&E, and 1400 DE per attack.
8am: If they start the day with 4 hours of shield remaining and have an army trained, they can get in the first attack, and have 1 hour of shield left (not enough time to train a non boosted army), so they suffer an attack and get 16 hr shield.
10am: 1 hr later army is ready, 15hr shield left attack #2, 12 hr shield left
noon: 2 hr army, 10 hr shield left, attack #3, 6 hr of shield left
2pm: 2 hr army training, 4 hr shield left, attack #4, shield broken, defense #2, 16hr shield
4pm: 2hr army training, attack #5, 11 hr shield left
6pm: 2hr army training, attack #6, 5 hr shield remaining
8pm: 2hr army training, attack #7, shield broken, defense #3 16 hr shield

So you can see even a VERY ACTIVE player may get in about 7 attacks per day, but suffer 3 defense. So even with the 300% increase in league bonus and hitting full bases AND getting 100% of the loot, even an active player would struggle to get enough loot to keep progressing at the maximum rate.

This assumes a TH9 would settle out in Masters, which is probably about right since Legend and Titan will be mostly TH11, TH10 will take champs, TH9 will likely settle in Masters, etc...


Analysis if the goal is to minimize NEXTing:

If you want to minimize the amount of nexting players have to do to find a reasonable target, one solution is to increase the league bonus enough, so that as long as you are in a high enough league for your TH level, nearly every base is a viable target (ie Profitable)

So if a base is low on loot (10% of max), it would have:
35k G
35K E
250 DE

If the army cost is held constant and the league bonus is increased 500%:

The net would be about
635k G
488k E
520 DE

This would require (assuming 100% loot and league bonus obtained, and you loose 50% of max loot in 2 raids per day)
4.9 attacks per day to get required gold
6.4 attacks per day to get required elixer
41 attacks per day to get required DE

To me, this says even a 500% increase in league bonuses is viable and fair. Only VERY active players will get 5-6 full army attacks in per day (and if they do, they are likely to suffer a 3rd attack in as well).

Very casual players could get on, get 1 attack in with minimal nexting, have a reasonable shot at making a profit, and advance at a reasonable pace.

Any feedback or holes in my analysis?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XSV

Hey, you commented on my gem based defensive bonus system and said a loot based would be better.

Well I wrote up a system for that too... Tell me what you think? My idea is kind of making attacker & defender battle for the league bonus.

Link
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...Implementation

---

I can see merit in battling for the league bonus, but think we need a dramatically increase offensive bonus to offset the costs of full armies, reward big attacks, and make trophies meaningful.

I also think there should be a defensive bonus to encourage strong defenses, but it should not be as large as the proposed offensive league bonus (current league bonus would be about right for the defense).

As predicted, in my in game experience the update broke the economy. I literally nexted away millions and never found a base with enough loot to pay for my army in champ 3.

With so many junk bases flooding in that used to be hidden we need huge increases in the league bonus.

I could see maybe a further 20% or so increase to the DE bonus in masters and above, but otherwise I think the bonuses are pretty good where they're at.