Non-centered CC to counter coring?

A centered cc is one of the vital features of a farming base right? Well i have seen quite a few raids where a centered cc has done the complete opposite of defending your precious loot. Since (most) troops AI makes them target cc troops and heroes over buildings, the cc troops and the heroes draw the attacking troops toward the center of the base. This is very helpful for DE farmers who are attacking DE tanks that are probably the most heavily protected tanks in a base, mainly because there is only one. Now, im all for a centered cc, as it works quite well with my design (clan-SKVNGR ign-sambam), but I would like to know what other experienced harvesters have to say about this subject.
your thoughts are appreciated.

I'm all for it, because a cc with loaded troops has the highest DPS of any defense structure. With splash damage and multiple coverages from other defenses, I only lose a few archers in each attack. If the attacking troops target other buildings instead of my troops, its an easy defensive win for me.

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Originally Posted by jhoeg001

I'm all for it, because a cc with loaded troops has the highest DPS of any defense structure. With splash damage and multiple coverages from other defenses, I only lose a few archers in each attack. If the attacking troops target other buildings instead of my troops, its an easy defensive win for me.

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But the attacking troops won't target other buildings when your cc troops come close. If a cc archer is in range of attacking archer, then the attacking archer will attack it. I have seen that many, many times. It is the same for heroes.
Im still thinking that a centered cc is the way to go, but maybe there is another way to prevent your enemies
watch some of Unitysharp's attacks in this thread to see what I mean.
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...roes-don-t-you

The troop's AI makes them switch from attacking a building, to attacking a hero or cc troops. That is a simple fact. If your cc troops are still within your walls and between the enemy troops and your core, this will make the enemy troops make a b line for the center of your base.

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Originally Posted by jhoeg001

I'm all for it, because a cc with loaded troops has the highest DPS of any defense structure. With splash damage and multiple coverages from other defenses, I only lose a few archers in each attack. If the attacking troops target other buildings instead of my troops, its an easy defensive win for me.

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Look at some of Unitysharp's replays hunting for de to see what I mean- http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...roes-don-t-you

true, the troops could get closer to the core, but unless you dont have a segmented base, or there happens to be no segments there it shouldnt be a problem. after all, the troops would go after more distractions anyway and all troops deployed after the cc troops are dead would go for the ditractions that the earlier troops skipped

Personally I think the CC is your most important defense. 25 level 6 archers WILL take down 6 level 3 pekkas (proven by many a video). A centred CC is very important so that they can't be lured out, when I am looking for a battle, I always ensure that their CC is lurable unless its for a very good loot.

The idea with a centred CC is that as soon as then enemy troops break the outer wall, your troops in the CC will be deployed and hold them their for a while, whilst your defences cause the damage.

I see what you mean with them drawing troops I to the centre, however the huge radius a CC has should ensure your troops deploy early enough to not do that. If they are doing that make sure your CC is just covering most of your inner base but also close to your outer wall.

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Originally Posted by 3beddoe3

Personally I think the CC is your most important defense. 25 level 6 archers WILL take down 6 level 3 pekkas (proven by many a video). A centred CC is very important so that they can't be lured out, when I am looking for a battle, I always ensure that their CC is lurable unless its for a very good loot.

The idea with a centred CC is that as soon as then enemy troops break the outer wall, your troops in the CC will be deployed and hold them their for a while, whilst your defences cause the damage.

I see what you mean with them drawing troops I to the centre, however the huge radius a CC has should ensure your troops deploy early enough to not do that. If they are doing that make sure your CC is just covering most of your inner base but also close to your outer wall.

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i know the benefits of having a centered cc (mine is centered), but would there be a way of stopping your cc troops from drawing the enemy troops into the center of the base? Having your cc in the center means that the defensive cc troops will most likely head for the enemy troops in a straight line. That means that the enemy troops will turn from whatever they are attacking, face the cc troops and head towards them in a straight line. Once the cc troops have been killed, the enemy troops should keep heading in a straight line, straight toward the center of your base.
And I do agree that the cc is the most important defensive structure since it has the highest (potential) dps out of any of the defensive structures.

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Originally Posted by Sambam

i know the benefits of having a centered cc (mine is centered), but would there be a way of stopping your cc troops from drawing the enemy troops into the center of the base? Having your cc in the center means that the defensive cc troops will most likely head for the enemy troops in a straight line. That means that the enemy troops will turn from whatever they are attacking, face the cc troops and head towards them in a straight line. Once the cc troops have been killed, the enemy troops should keep heading in a straight line, straight toward the center of your base.
And I do agree that the cc is the most important defensive structure since it has the highest (potential) dps out of any of the defensive structures.

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I think the idea is that when your CC troops deploy, the enemy troops only attack them once your CC troops have fired the first shot. When your first troop dies, there will be another 20 standing behind him and this time they will all be together, the enemy troops are not moving forward towards them but instead standing still and fighting your CC troops that are coming towards them.

Hope this helps, take care

3beddoe3

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Originally Posted by 3beddoe3

I think the idea is that when your CC troops deploy, the enemy troops only attack them once your CC troops have fired the first shot. When your first troop dies, there will be another 20 standing behind him and this time they will all be together, the enemy troops are not moving forward towards them but instead standing still and fighting your CC troops that are coming towards them.

Hope this helps, take care

3beddoe3

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The troops will fire at the cc troops once they come in range. Same with the heroes. Although what you said seems to solve the problem, it really doesn't. The matter is that once the cc troops have been killed, the troops will head into the core of the base. Bar upgraded defenses, is there a way of countering this?

Solution seems simple, don't center your storages.

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Originally Posted by Superhal

Solution seems simple, don't center your storages.

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So you're promoting the pokeball type segmentation? I use a mix, atm i have 3 elixir tanks in the centre with my cc (4x4) and i have my de and gold storages spread throughout the rest of the base.
Note- the only reason i am protecting my elixir is because i have 6 mil stored, and I don't want people to easily get it. I honestly couldn't care less about elixir, but i don't want the incentive there.

Yep, I've found that it works very well. The past few weeks, out of say 20 losses, about 3 were 100%, the rest were 1-2. Out of the other 17, maybe 1 or 2 or them got all five of my storages. All of them managed to penetrate into the center of my base, but didn't get farther. If all my storages were in the center, I would have lost all my storages to all 20 attacks. However, because they were separated, maybe 10 of them got 2 or less, maybe 5 got 3-4. I'm really surprised how many attacks barely make it to the center.

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Originally Posted by Superhal

Yep, I've found that it works very well. The past few weeks, out of say 20 losses, about 3 were 100%, the rest were 1-2. Out of the other 17, maybe 1 or 2 or them got all five of my storages. All of them managed to penetrate into the center of my base, but didn't get farther. If all my storages were in the center, I would have lost all my storages to all 20 attacks. However, because they were separated, maybe 10 of them got 2 or less, maybe 5 got 3-4. I'm really surprised how many attacks barely make it to the center.

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What trophy range are you in? Because i think that would be a main factor in this equation, because people at 1250 arent going to want to try and core a base with archers, barbs and a few wbs. Out of my last 20 attacks, i think one actually got to a segment of my core, and took some elixir (140k ish), but the attack was actually a failure. For what he spent on the attack, and what he actually got, it was a loss.
Also, this coring type of attack is more common with de hunters, because more often than not, the de will be heavily protected, and most likely centered.

Once you get hit by some pro attackers, or watch some YouTube videos by pro attackers you do start to question the value.

But the pro attackers are a minority. It's all about risk management.

I find my cantered troops cut off far more attacks then get vacuumed to my core. And even if they do, I have no more then 2 storages available in each wall block to slow them right down so my centred Wizard Towers & Teslas can finish them off.

Clan troops aren't as good vacuuming than AQ. AQ's range makes her very dangerous in vacuuming (never ask woman to vacuum) troops closer to core. Melee units have very little such effect, but I rather have archers and wizards as their range fits my build perfectly: they shoot the attackers from behind the second layer and aren't triggerred untill the breachers are properly in.

Also, placing Dlix container not to the middle helps ;) Sure, have a bit easier loot from my dlix but daddying is prepared for revenge.

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Originally Posted by Sambam

The troop's AI makes them switch from attacking a building, to attacking a hero or cc troops. That is a simple fact. If your cc troops are still within your walls and between the enemy troops and your core, this will make the enemy troops make a b line for the center of your base.

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Actually they only switch when the troops are very close, not when they are first coming out of the CC. They still have to go through walls. This can work to the defender's advantage if the CC is centralized. The attackers will be attacking the wall while archers shoot at them. If the CC is outside or on the outer rim, archers are more likely to jump over before the other troops' AI kicks in. There's no problem with the way it is.

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Originally Posted by acf99oc

Actually they only switch when the troops are very close, not when they are first coming out of the CC. They still have to go through walls. This can work to the defender's advantage if the CC is centralized. The attackers will be attacking the wall while archers shoot at them. If the CC is outside or on the outer rim, archers are more likely to jump over before the other troops' AI kicks in. There's no problem with the way it is.

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what you said about the enemy troops attacking the walls would only be applicable if the enemy troops are melee and not ranged. And if, for example archers are in your cc, then once your archers are in range of the enemy archers/wizards, then your cc troops are in range of their attacks.
I have found that enemy troops will only attack cc troops once they have been attacked, which gives your cc troops a slight time advantage, since they attack first.
And watch some of Unitysharp's attacking replays to see some problems witha centered cc.

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Originally Posted by OJM

Clan troops aren't as good vacuuming than AQ. AQ's range makes her very dangerous in vacuuming (never ask woman to vacuum) troops closer to core. Melee units have very little such effect, but I rather have archers and wizards as their range fits my build perfectly: they shoot the attackers from behind the second layer and aren't triggerred untill the breachers are properly in.

Also, placing Dlix container not to the middle helps ;) Sure, have a bit easier loot from my dlix but daddying is prepared for revenge.

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Melee troops are still subject to this effect if you are attacking/being attacked with a raging healer/giant combo (which is usually supplemented with archers/and or wizards). From what ive seen in some de hunting replays, they are especially prone to this effect, since most intelligent farming bases have centered/semi-centered mortars/wiz towers/x bows etc. The giants then cut a path through the base staright to the core.
As a vault campaigner, would a vault type base combat this OJM?

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Originally Posted by daz258

Once you get hit by some pro attackers, or watch some YouTube videos by pro attackers you do start to question the value.

But the pro attackers are a minority. It's all about risk management.

I find my cantered troops cut off far more attacks then get vacuumed to my core. And even if they do, I have no more then 2 storages available in each wall block to slow them right down so my centred Wizard Towers & Teslas can finish them off.

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The pro attacker comment is very true. The average farmer does not run a maxed giant/healer/rage combo, since most average farmers are looking for gold and maybe elixir, and spending 30-45k on rage spells, and waiting for around 40 minutes for an army is simply not applicable for most. it certainly isnt applicable for me. I use a 100/60ish/8 barb/arch/wb army for farming at the 1500-1600 range.
Most high lvl farmers are at the 1600-1900 range. a fact that i am glad of...

Centered CC is still the best. Guys using wizzies and rage will smack down your base no matter what.....

I prefer clan castle centered and its all iv ever used it for really.

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Originally Posted by Beancounter

Centered CC is still the best. Guys using wizzies and rage will smack down your base no matter what.....

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I think that it is the best depending on the situation. Against a ground troop attack, a regular farming army, then having your cc as central as possible is definitely the best way to do it. But against very experienced, high lvl farmers who know how to use your cc troops against you, I don't think that having your cc positioned in line with the centre of your base (obviously where the attack comes from dictates if the cc lines up with the core) is not the best option.
as ive said before, i still campaign a central cc for farmers in the 800-1700 range, but above that is where the high lvl farmers, and the dangerous attacks, are at. Use a centered cc if you are within that trophy range is my advice.

Looking at the videos mentioned I don't really think the CC troops had much if anything to do with punching to the core, that is an effect of good WB placement and then the wizards sweeping away defences to the sides so that the giants were always heading inwards. Since CC troops take a lot of killing in addition to their massive damage dealing abilities I would think that they slow down an attacker on his way to the core more than they speed him up.

On a different note, seeing those videos really makes me wish I was playing on an iPad, I can't begin to put out troops at that speed.

To be honest, I think the strongest defense is offense. Offense will always win, but you only lose once per day, and then if you have strong offense you can make back the loss quickly.

To minimize the loss though, I think the CC should still be centered, but the base needs to be heavily segmented with strong walls, and the CC units cannot be too slow. Once triggered, they need to run to behind 2nd layer or 1st layer of wall to attack the enemy quickly. This will reduce the chance of coring and minimize the damage done to the core.

If the CC is not centered, the troops are easily lurable and makes the CC useless. And a good attacker can lure the CC troops so that he attacks the base when the troops are running through the middle of the base - thus still producing the coring effect. So if you are trying to protect a lot of DE without strong walls, then maybe we should just move CC to the outside and let enemy kill the CC troops :/

I think a centred CC is really the key to any base. Coring is not an overly-used technique, especially in the lower leagues so having a CC in the middle of your base is always going to be the best option

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Originally Posted by Sammo

I think a centred CC is really the key to any base. Coring is not an overly-used technique, especially in the lower leagues so having a CC in the middle of your base is always going to be the best option

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Yeah that is quite true, although i do try and core bases when one comes up with a decent amount of loot (g or de, elixir is always in over abundance). Im thinking of writing up a guide on coring when I have some more experience, although it will be using a more efficiency orientated army, archers/barbs/wbs and probably some supplemental wiz/drags/minions. It will be all about bang for your buck, using as little g and e to make the army/spells, having a quick army creation time, and attacking in the most efficient manner.

you are all over-thinking this. just stop requesting troops...


:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sluffy

you are all over-thinking this. just stop requesting troops...


:rolleyes:

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Trolololol

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Originally Posted by UnitySharp

If the CC is not centered, the troops are easily lurable and makes the CC useless. And a good attacker can lure the CC troops so that he attacks the base when the troops are running through the middle of the base - thus still producing the coring effect.

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Precisely, which is why you shouldn't over think it. Savvy players can lure troops to wherever they want them.

I for example on a few occasions have dropped barbarians around to make the majority of clan troops stand near a air defense, lightning bolted it out and killed a bunch of clan troops at the same time before releasing the dragons.

But it's rare to be attacked by someone who manipulates your troops so savagely like that, so keep them in the middle as it will benefit more times then it will hinder.

Unnecessary bump

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Originally Posted by wolfling

...On a different note, seeing those videos really makes me wish I was playing on an iPad, I can't begin to put out troops at that speed.

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Don't tap to deploy troops. Instead, tap once, and hold. Slide your finger after tapping to deploy in a line.