Dominance Experiment: Clan War Engineering (x Vs. 2x)

Dominance Experiment: Clan War Engineering (x Vs. 2x)

Experiment Description:
I've decided to carry out this experiment and publicly post the results and findings in this thread. Dominance Experiment is about showing how Clan War Matchmaking can be intentionally manipulated through engineered wars to achieve the desired result.
One person with multiple accounts has an inherent advantage against a Clan of different people, without doubt. However, there's a simple fact that's often overlooked while trying to take advantage of this strategy. Each account can carry out two attacks in war, not just one. Therefore, in order to achieve perfect stars (100% Destruction) against a clan of (2X) players, you will only need to posses (1X) accounts.
This leaves room for 5 accounts with as low weight as possible to fill up the war as placeholders. Clan Wars are matched bases on overall clan weight and individual bases are NOT matched against each other. Consequently, it's theoretically possible to engineer a clan to a point where it's technically possible to win or tie (draw) even the worst possible mismatch (against a higher clan).
This experiment will show how it's possible for one person with multiple accounts to win consistently against a clan of twice his size (i.e. 5v10,25v50,etc.).

Experiment Goals:

• Goal #1: The most ambitious goal of this experiment is to prove that it's technically possible to Win or Draw (Tie) every single war match without even a single Loss.
• Goal #2: If Goal #1 is invalidated, prove that it's still possible to win the majority of War Matches and it's the most effective way of boosting Win Count/Clan XP with consistency.

Dominance Experiment carried out on AhuraMazda Clan
https://i.imgur.com/rocOQ5l.jpg

War Accounts (Line-Up has Changed since 3rd two-weeks):
Main accounts will be used to score perfect 30-stars every single war which would most likely result in a war. The worst possible case of this would be a Draw/Tie.

• A Max TH8 account will be used to Donate Max Balloons to other accounts using Clan Perk. Max TH8 is the most crucial part of this experiment because it is the first and only line of defense against a 30-30 Draw. It will 3-star any Max TH8 or rushed TH9 with ease with max loons acquired from other clans. Valkyries will be donated to lower THs which could result in a successful defense because of the lack of experience.
• A Max TH7 account will be used to 3-star any Max TH7 and Rushed TH8. It will also fill the War CC of the Max TH8. This account would most likely get 3-starred in all wars.
• A Max TH5 will play an extremely important role in the engineered wars. TH5 is the first townhall to unlock spells and has a relatively massive army space. Max TH5 will keep a Valkyire+Loon combination in War CC to have a chance at defense. It will 3-star the strongest enemy bases below #4 in wars.
• Two Max TH4s will use Max CC Loons to 3-star the bottom enemy bases with ease. In case of mismatch, hybrid armies can be used to achieve perfect stars.

https://i.imgur.com/XlPbM8y.jpg

Placeholder Accounts (Line-Up has Changed since 3rd two-weeks):
Five abandoned TH3 accounts will be used as placeholders to reduce the weight of the clan in matchmaking as much as possible. However, these placeholders account will still build Lv. 3 Cannon & Lv. 3 Archer Towers. The reason for this is because the equal enemies will often lack experience and these accounts have a very good chance at defense with Valkyries & Balloons in their CCs.
Three of them will house Valkyries and the other two will hold Balloons. These accounts are never accessed directly and will NOT use any of their war attacks ever.
https://i.imgur.com/L7VJoHl.jpg

Clan War Strategy:
The War Strategy is very simple, each account will 3-star its mirror and one below. This would be very easy considering the rival clans would often consist of inexperienced players and rushed accounts. However, there are two important aspects of warplan that need to be pointed out:

• Espionage: Knowing the Trap Location of enemy bases would prove extremely helpful although unnecessary, so does knowing the content of their CCs. Most of the matched rivals will be Open clans with barely more than 10 members which would make spying an easy task.
• Psychological Warfare: This is a crucial part of the plan, morale of the rival clan should be shattered by 30-starring them within the first 30 minutes of war. Most of the clans would just plain give up when they see they've already lost all their stars so fast and most players would either leave the clan or not use their attacks. As soon as the war starts, their top bases would be instantly 3-starred.

Startup War Log:
Here's the current progress of this experiment at the time of writing this thread. So far, all wars have been won easily. Experiment became serious at 19 Sept 2015 and since then, the goal has been 30-starring every single onward.
https://i.imgur.com/fPVs4Hb.jpg

Tracking Progress:
This thread will be updated with new information and complete war log every 2 weeks (7 wars), you could find my replies in this thread by searching my nickname (Reav3R) within your browser (Shortcut: Ctrl+F).

Clan Spectators:
If you would like to follow the progress more closely, you could visit the clan from time to time to watch the status and/or war replays. Spectators can view the progress by sending a join request with the following message:
Domination Experiment Spectator Xv2X

Spectators feel free to take advantage of donation perk and donate each other, however you are NOT allowed to donate to any of the accounts involved in this experiment.

Conclusions:
I've made this experiment as a counter-argument or perhaps a compliment to Longbow Experiment. I want to show that the game doesn't intentionally match clans with very high winrate in a losing battle. It's a multiplayer game, making a clan lose intentionally would be handing a free win to another clan which is completely illogical and unfair.
Sure, the game might mismatch you from time to time, but even those unbalanced wars can be won with the right combination of accounts. You are not defeated unless you accept failure.

Archived Updates:
Read the next post.

Archived Updates

This section will be updated with links to new information and updates as they are posted.
Town Hall Selection Logic & Process
Q/A - Sept 28 2015
1st Two Weeks - War Log & Observations (27 Sept - 9 Oct)
Featured War - 9 Oct 2015
Featured Replay/Attack (24 Oct 2015) - Quad AD TH9 3-starred w/ Dr.Hog
2nd Two Weeks - War Log & Observations (10 Oct - 27 Oct)
3rd Two Weeks - PERFECT War Log + Line-Up Change (27 Oct - 9 Nov)
Featured War (20 Nov 2015) - First Tiebreaker Victory
4th Two Weeks - War Log
3 Dec 2015 - Noteworthy war match
Featured Replay/Attack (4 Dec 2015) - LavaLoon 3-Star Vs. Multi-Inferno TH10
5th Two Weeks - War Log
9 Dec 2015 - War Size changed to 8v15
Featured War (19 Dec 2015) - Worst Mismatch (Victory)
6th Two Weeks - War Log
Green War Log (Zero Losses) - End of War Log Updates
[...]

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Originally Posted by tyler4

Cool.. You can beat lowbies that have no idea what they're doing in clan wars. Wake me up when you're fighting real clans at real TH levels with this strategy.

Also, just have your highest three star the top 2 and so on and so forth. Mirrors are a bad idea for maxing three stars.

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I think that's what he meant based on the graphics.

About twice a month a thread comes along that is well thought out, well written and has relevant, pertinent ideas.

It is inevitable that the first few responses will be garbage.

Reav3R, I, for one, applaud you and the effort you are going through. You are taking the time and effort to prove or disprove what the forum 'experts' think they know. Thank you for your time. Adding this thread to my subscription list.

Nice experiment. Id love to see how you would do in a real war though. on a side note will this work with th10?

Man this thread; so impressed with it! Will be sure to come visit and watch this crazyness

Pretty cool project, there should be more experiments like this. Keep it up

Interesting experiment. Wondering how many "low" accounts you actually have to have to make a differenec. Also,interested to see how it scales up when you start getting to TH9s and TH10s.

The most important aspect of this experiment is having 2 accounts that can 3-star ANY BASE up to one rushed TH higher and 3 accounts than can 3-star ANY BASE up to one max TH higher. This experiment, without doubt, will NOT work with ANY combination which includes TH8.5 and higher.

TH8.5 & TH9.5 clans of experienced players can be engineered to make winning wars easier but it will never be possible to win every single war with 100% assurance. The reason is because there is no guaranteed way that TH9 & TH10 can 3-star a TH10, also there's no way to be sure TH9 will even 3-star another TH9.

• A max TH7 will be able to 3-star ANY other max TH7 and even partially rushed TH8s with low ADs.
• A max TH8 will be able to 3-star ANY other max TH8 and rushed TH9s with 3 ADs even if they have XBs.
• A max TH5 will be able to 3-star ANY other max TH5 with CC and most TH6s with army+CC.
• A max TH4 will have access to Lv. 2 Balloon which can 3-star ANY other max TH5 base and lower.

Also walls should be kept as low as possible and it would be better for accounts to have no walls at all because walls weigh too much. My combination is a very good one but there are better combinations such as: Max TH8, Max TH7, TH4,TH3,TH3.
The worst possible Town Hall to have in your combination is a Town Hall 6. A TH6 can hardly 2-star a TH7 and you can't even be sure of 3-starring other TH6s. Never use a TH6 in this combination as its weight is simply not worth the extra spell & army space.

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Originally Posted by Dragonfall15

on a side note will this work with th10?

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Originally Posted by cbateman23

Also,interested to see how it scales up when you start getting to TH9s and TH10s

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Cool experiment. Looks to be panning out as expected. I was unconvinced by the longbow experiment so will be interested to see if you can maintain 30 star wins over a long run without drawing an unexpectedly tough opponent.

Grateful to anyone who makes this kind of effort to dig into the mechanics of the game for selfless knowledge sharing.

I'm very excited. Keep us updated! :cool:

A really neat thread reaver. I for one will definitely enjoy tracking it :D

Goodluck

I left my clan so I can be a spectator. Can't wait to see the replays :D

I was thinking about doing something like this with all TH7 but this seems like a better idea.

This looks incredible. Simply. Clan war matchmaking is one of those things that is talked about a lot but never taken into serious depth. The results you've already provided us with look promising and I really hope this concept is taken much further :thumbsup:

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Clan Wars are matched bases on overall clan weight and individual bases are NOT matched against each other

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Could you provide any evidence for that statement?

Clans that want to deliberately match always work on making every individual base match; I've never heard of anyone have any success doing a deliberate match based on overall clan weight.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

Clans that want to deliberately match always work on making every individual base match; I've never heard of anyone have any success doing a deliberate match based on overall clan weight.

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And that is why they often fail and cry when the few TH8.5s they put up get matched against max TH9s and crushed. Matches are found based on overall clan weight not individual bases, this is where most of the so called "war engineers" fail miserably then claim matchmaking is unfair/broken.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marika[Supercell

Clan wars matchmaking matches clans based on the (overall) strength of their members.

(overall) Strength is based on each member’s attacking power (troops, army camp capacity, spells and heroes) and defensive strength (defense buildings, walls, traps and heroes).

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http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...-Clan-Wars-FAQ

That means overall weight of clans will be matched against each other.

Not against the rules.Used frequently by my clan.

I have all the necessary accounts for this, even the maxed TH3 (or non-maxed), but I'm missing the TH8.

Guessing I'll need to farm hard for that account once I maxed all my cannons to lv13 on my main :)

Great thread as always bud, good job. Keep us posted.

Amazing thread

Interesting:eek:
I am subscribing to this thread to see more

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

The most important aspect of this experiment is having 2 accounts that can 3-star ANY BASE up to one rushed TH higher and 3 accounts than can 3-star ANY BASE up to one max TH higher. This experiment, without doubt, will NOT work with ANY combination which includes TH8.5 and higher.

TH8.5 & TH9.5 clans of experienced players can be engineered to make winning wars easier but it will never be possible to win every single war with 100% assurance. The reason is because there is no guaranteed way that TH9 & TH10 can 3-star a TH10, also there's no way to be sure TH9 will even 3-star another TH9.

• A max TH7 will be able to 3-star ANY other max TH7 and even partially rushed TH8s with low ADs.
• A max TH8 will be able to 3-star ANY other max TH8 and rushed TH9s with 3 ADs even if they have XBs.
• A max TH5 will be able to 3-star ANY other max TH5 with CC and most TH6s with army+CC.
• A max TH4 will have access to Lv. 2 Balloon which can 3-star ANY other max TH5 base and lower.

Also walls should be kept as low as possible and it would be better for accounts to have no walls at all because walls weigh too much. My combination is a very good one but there are better combinations such as: Max TH8, Max TH7, TH4,TH3,TH3.
The worst possible Town Hall to have in your combination is a Town Hall 6. A TH6 can hardly 2-star a TH7 and you can't even be sure of 3-starring other TH6s. Never use a TH6 in this combination as its weight is simply not worth the extra spell & army space.

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You're overestimating the offensive abilities of max th8s when they have one shot to 3 star a max TH8 with no backup.

Also, how does beating the clans you're beating really tell us anything? If they're weighted that low you better win because chances are they have no idea what they're doing.

Well written and an interesting thread. Will be checking this often

Engineering is manipulating the matchmaking to get weaker opponents than you in terms of village and army strength. That is clearly not what you re doing. There's a huge difference between engineering and lowball. You have formed a clan of low accounts to beat level 1 clans. You could as well make a clan with th6 and below. It would have the same result.

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

Clan Wars are matched bases on overall clan weight and individual bases are NOT matched against each other.

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The general concensus is that this is 100% NOT true. Do you have evidence that suggests otherwise? Have you found that by adding the 5 TH3s your top 5 bases are stronger than the enemy's top 5 bases consistently?

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

it's the most effective way of boosting Win Count/Clan XP with consistency.

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How are you going to prove that? I argue that the best way to boost win count is having better players than the opposing side.

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

I want to show that the game doesn't intentionally match clans with very high winrate in a losing battle.

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We already know that, don't we? Is that what this experiment is about? That you can beat 1 month old clashers forever?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

"Clan wars matchmaking matches clans based on the (overall) strength of their members.

(overall) Strength is based on each member’s attacking power (troops, army camp capacity, spells and heroes) and defensive strength (defense buildings, walls, traps and heroes)."


http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...-Clan-Wars-FAQ

That means overall weight of clans will be matched against each other.

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I read that FAQ very, very differently to you. You have inserted the word "overall". Nowhere does the FAQ mention, "total, "average" or "overall". The only word that gives any hint between total or individual is "each" member.

But... you can tell it's not an average just by looking at the matches you get. Yes there are variations, but I've never ever seen a match with a profoundly different profile but with an overall average the same. In my clan of typically 3 TH10, 20 TH9, 15 TH8, 2 TH7 we get pretty much the same number of each TH plus or minus one, unless they are badly rushed, or there are very fresh THs one side which might match to a max of the TH lower.
I've never seen a match to a clan of 10 TH10, 10 TH9, 10TH8, 10 TH7 (or something similar) which would have an identical average. The few times we dropped the TH7s, the enemy had no TH7s - they didn't get another TH10 instead to compensate.
I would also point out that people have reported that 5 TH10 and 5 TH3 often gives no match after many hours searching. But the clan would have a totally normal average and should match instantly if only averages are used.

Quote:

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"Clans that want to deliberately match always work on making every individual base match; I've never heard of anyone have any success doing a deliberate match based on overall clan weight."


And that is why they often fail and cry when the few TH8.5s they put up get matched against max TH9s and crushed. Matches are found based on overall clan weight not individual bases, this is where most of the so called "war engineers" fail miserably then claim matchmaking is unfair/broken.

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I wasn't talking about engineering. I was talking about people arranging matches with another clan or scrims. They find it necessary to match each individual base. Searching with identical total/average weight alone doesn't work.

And, although it's off topic, since you mention 8.5s... I guess you've not seen these in action. They match usually against very fresh TH9s and it's slaughter - one player with max troops and who has had time to learn how to use them against players who still struggle to 3* TH8s.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

I read that FAQ very, very differently to you. You have inserted the word "overall". Nowhere does the FAQ mention, "total, "average" or "overall". The only word that gives any hint between total or individual is "each" member.

But... you can tell it's not an average just by looking at the matches you get. Yes there are variations, but I've never ever seen a match with a profoundly different profile but with an overall average the same. In my clan of typically 3 TH10, 20 TH9, 15 TH8, 2 TH7 we get pretty much the same number of each TH plus or minus one, unless they are badly rushed, or there are very fresh THs one side which might match to a max of the TH lower.
I've never seen a match to a clan of 10 TH10, 10 TH9, 10TH8, 10 TH7 (or something similar) which would have an identical average. The few times we dropped the TH7s, the enemy had no TH7s - they didn't get another TH10 instead to compensate.
I would also point out that people have reported that 5 TH10 and 5 TH3 often gives no match after many hours searching. But the clan would have a totally normal average and should match instantly if only averages are used.


I wasn't talking about engineering. I was talking about people arranging matches with another clan or scrims. They find it necessary to match each individual base. Searching with identical total/average weight alone doesn't work.

And, although it's off topic, since you mention 8.5s... I guess you've not seen these in action. They match usually against very fresh TH9s and it's slaughter - one player with max troops and who has had time to learn how to use them against players who still struggle to 3* TH8s.

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This completely demolish some of OP'S claims.
Really a pointless exercise, although I applaud the effort.
War engineer complaining about mismatch? I never heard of that. War engineers, by definition, know how match making work.

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Originally Posted by TangoFever

This completely demolish some of OP'S claims.
Really a pointless exercise, although I applaud the effort.
War engineer complaining about mismatch? I never heard of that. War engineers, by definition, know how match making work.

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I don't know why you disagree here.

I like the experiment. Certainly it is also war engineering. Also I am pretty sure he will succeed, because there are some engineered clans I am aware of already, that have long win streaks.

Also you are wrong about the definition.
Engineering is the application of mathematics, empirical evidence and scientific, economic, social, and practical knowledge in order to invent, design, build, maintain, research, and improve, structures, machines, tools, systems, components, materials, processes and matchmaking.

So there shouldn't be knowledge of matchmaking to improve it. He has empirical evidence also.

Good thread Reaver! Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TangoFever

This completely demolish some of OP'S claims.
Really a pointless exercise, although I applaud the effort.
War engineer complaining about mismatch? I never heard of that. War engineers, by definition, know how match making work.

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It doesn't render it completely pointless... I was picking up on the point about averages since I've often seen it stated as incontrovertible fact; but never seen any evidence and just looking at matches they don't appear to be average based.

It's still possible to experiment for ways to engineer an advantage whether or not the match is based on averages. The biggest issue with the experimental design I think is the noob factor: OP is a presumably skilled player, who will be playing against clans that are likely to be totally hopeless - at TH3 some will have been playing for less than a week. An enemy TH8 willing to be in such a low clan is likely to be a weak player. So given the huge skill mismatch, I'm not sure how you prove if the actual matching has given one side or the other an advantage.

We know that it's theoretically possible for a max TH8 and lowers to 3-star any other base design of same level, so we mistakenly assume that it's obviously possible to win/draw all wars therefore this experiment is pointless. Well, that is wrong because not all wars are 100% balanced, and you might (and eventually will) run into an unbeatable opponent with the wrong combination of THs.

I'm trying to show a combination that can beat even the strongest opponent that can possibly be matched, not just try to win wars with 5 random accounts. That's the point.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

1) But... you can tell it's not an average just by looking at the matches you get. Yes there are variations, but I've never ever seen a match with a profoundly different profile but with an overall average the same. In my clan of typically 3 TH10, 20 TH9, 15 TH8, 2 TH7 we get pretty much the same number of each TH plus or minus one, unless they are badly rushed, or there are very fresh THs one side which might match to a max of the TH lower.
I've never seen a match to a clan of 10 TH10, 10 TH9, 10TH8, 10 TH7 (or something similar) which would have an identical average. The few times we dropped the TH7s, the enemy had no TH7s - they didn't get another TH10 instead to compensate.
I would also point out that people have reported that 5 TH10 and 5 TH3 often gives no match after many hours searching. But the clan would have a totally normal average and should match instantly if only averages are used.


2) I wasn't talking about engineering. I was talking about people arranging matches with another clan or scrims. They find it necessary to match each individual base. Searching with identical total/average weight alone doesn't work.

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1) That's because not every combination of THs leads to an overall weight with many clans in the range. Different THs get different levels of different defenses, also walls add a huge weight. Your assumption is based on the well-known weight spreadsheet which is completely false and to be honest looks made up. No one knows the exact weight therefore you can't know if 5TH10+5TH3 takes forever because it's trying to match with the similar THs (which are very rare) or because the overall weight simply has no other clan in range.

2) This has zero relevance to the point of this thread and would work either way, although I'm sure I'm right. Even if I'm wrong, it makes no difference because the point of this experiment is winning wars, not showing how matchmaking algorithm works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TangoFever

This completely demolish some of OP'S claims.
Really a pointless exercise, although I applaud the effort.
War engineer complaining about mismatch? I never heard of that. War engineers, by definition, know how match making work.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

It's still possible to experiment for ways to engineer an advantage whether or not the match is based on averages. The biggest issue with the experimental design I think is the noob factor: OP is a presumably skilled player, who will be playing against clans that are likely to be totally hopeless - at TH3 some will have been playing for less than a week. An enemy TH8 willing to be in such a low clan is likely to be a weak player. So given the huge skill mismatch, I'm not sure how you prove if the actual matching has given one side or the other an advantage.

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Read the first post again, this has nothing to do with my point. I'm not trying to prove how mismatched wars work, I'm trying to show how to win every war with the right accounts and it works either way. Also read the section above.

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Originally Posted by Janniboy0312

I have all the necessary accounts for this, even the maxed TH3 (or non-maxed), but I'm missing the TH8.

Guessing I'll need to farm hard for that account once I maxed all my cannons to lv13 on my main

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You will need the Max TH8 because it's the only account that is able to defend consistently. Consider the rest of your accounts 3-starred from the beginning (although most of them will win defenses regardless).

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Originally Posted by Furry

Clan war matchmaking is one of those things that is talked about a lot but never taken into serious depth.

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This experiment isn't directly about how clan matchmaking works rather how one person can win most if not of the wars alone.

i envy your time my friend...but i think the specimen will be better if you're doing 3th10s 5th9s 2th8 format....all the best teams in 10v10 uses this composition...

im tellin you...even 4 accounts in that war category will drain you out and it will result to a big loss :)

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

1) That's because not every combination of THs leads to an overall weight with many clans in the range. Different THs get different levels of different defenses, also walls add a huge weight. Your assumption is based on the well-known weight spreadsheet which is completely false and to be honest looks made up. No one knows the exact weight therefore you can't know if 5TH10+5TH3 takes forever because it's trying to match with the similar THs (which are very rare) or because the overall weight simply has no other clan in range.

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Wow, you've gone off at a complete tangent again. It's nothing to do with that spreadsheet - I was one of the first to point out how totally implausible it was.
A mid TH10 is about 90k; a Th3 about 10k(?). Average 50k - which is a lowish TH8. So any clan of mostly TH8 with a few TH7 will be a match. I've checked our clan's matches over a period of time and it's easy to get matches where the average weight is plus or minus 4%, even up to 6%. So a range of 48k-52k average or even 47k-53k describes almost every TH7/8 clan in the system. Yet they don't match to the weird clan.


[quote
Read the first post again, this has nothing to do with my point. I'm not trying to prove how mismatched wars work, I'm trying to show how to win every war with the right accounts and it works either way. Also read the section above.
.[/QUOTE]

Read my post again ;-) It has everything to do with your experiment. As an experienced player you will always win every war if you are playing with a load of TH3 and TH4 accounts due to the huge skill gap. You could take absolutely any combination of TH as long as they are very low and expect to win every war. It's not an experiment in clan engineering. It's an experiment in just how hopeless at war are people who have only been playing for a few days.

Onyx is nailing it in his/her posts lately...

The famous spreadsheet, op, works for those clans because it compares defensive weight (which is reflected in the gold in the storages and th on battle day or in a recap) and the clans that use this to match are essentially offensively identical, as in essentially they are all maxed offense or close to maxed offense for their TH level, be that 8.5, 9, 9.5 or 10. The closeness of those clans in overall weight once matched must be within a tiny percentage.

Now, take the same spreadsheet strategy and try to match two clans with significantly different offensive troops, like say a clan like gobs only vs a clan with well rounded offense, say every troop maxed, and you won't get a match.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

As an experienced player you will always win every war if you are playing with a load of TH3 and TH4 accounts due to the huge skill gap. You could take absolutely any combination of TH as long as they are very low and expect to win every war. It's not an experiment in clan engineering. It's an experiment in just how hopeless at war are people who have only been playing for a few days.

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That's exactly my point, also look up the exact definition of the word engineering. Also keep in mind you might occasionally get matched against higher THs so you can't just use any combination of lower THs. 10x TH5s would most likely get matched against an unbeatable clan eventually, that's where longbow experiment failed hard.

But yeah, main point is about experience, I thought that was quite obvious. But even with the best experience, you can fail if you use a very bad combination. You need experience and a good combination, the worst THs to include would be TH6, TH9 & TH10.

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Originally Posted by athancoreextreme

but i think the specimen will be better if you're doing 3th10s 5th9s 2th8 format....all the best teams in 10v10 uses this composition...

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Putting any TH above 8 in the combination would be a terrible idea.

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

One person with multiple accounts has an inherent advantage against a Clan of different people, without doubt.

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I'll be curious to see how you make out. However, I disagree with this statement and I also disagree with your drawing a conclusion before the experiment even begins. Without a doubt? I have plenty of doubts.

I am the player I am today specifically because of my clanmates. Without them, my game would have stagnated. I rely on their input, their creative suggestions, their various attack strategies, and their collecfive knowledge and research to help us all to improve. Left to my own devices, I'd only know what I personally sought out and would only do what I'd personally experienced. And when I'm having an off day, they back me up. Our team balances each other out - we each have our strengths and our weaknesses, but we learn from each other to increase the strengths and lessen the weaknesses. They also add conversation, support, and bring life to my game. I can't imagine many players would enjoy being solo in a clan for long.

Good luck Reaver. Just visited his Clan, and had a mini interview with him. Gonna upload war attacks to my YT @clashwithThUnDeR GoD soon. Be sure to sub! So, he ended his perfect war streak today<img src="images/smilies/frown.png" border="0" alt="" title="Frown" smilieid="11" class="inlineimg">&nbsp;with a 1 star on no.1, but no problem, he's still winning!<br><br>http://i60.tinypic.com/mjshv7.jpg<br>http://i58.tinypic.com/2moa1le.png<br>

You're talking about the psychological aspect of the game, not tactical timing and flawless strategy. Your arugmeny is completely biased.

Normal Clan: Attack efficiency and execution depends on members. One bad member can lose the war. Unused attacks can lose the war. Etc.
Solo Clan: 100% attack efficiency, flawless timing

Normal Clan: Wrong donations and late donations.
Solo Clan: Perfect donations.

Normal Clan: Needs collaboration and teamwork.
Solo Clan: Perfect compatibility.

And there are more advantages. Also look up the definition of "inherent" and "advantage".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SharkyFinn

I'll be curious to see how you make out. However, I disagree with this statement and I also disagree with your drawing a conclusion before the experiment even begins. Without a doubt? I have plenty of doubts.

I am the player I am today specifically because of my clanmates. Without them, my game would have stagnated. I rely on their input, their creative suggestions, their various attack strategies, and their collecfive knowledge and research to help us all to improve. Left to my own devices, I'd only know what I personally sought out and would only do what I'd personally experienced. And when I'm having an off day, they back me up. Our team balances each other out - we each have our strengths and our weaknesses, but we learn from each other to increase the strengths and lessen the weaknesses. They also add conversation, support, and bring life to my game. I can't imagine many players would enjoy being solo in a clan for long.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

You're talking about the psychological aspect of the game, not tactical timing and flawless strategy. Your arugmeny is completely biased.

Normal Clan: Attack efficiency and execution depends on members. One bad member can lose the war. Unused attacks can lose the war. Etc.
Solo Clan: 100% attack efficiency, flawless timing

Normal Clan: Wrong donations and late donations.
Solo Clan: Perfect donations.

Normal Clan: Needs collaboration and teamwork.
Solo Clan: Perfect compatibility.

And there are more advantages. Also look up the definition of "inherent" and "advantage".

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Now you're showing your bias. In all the time we've been warring, bad attacks, unused attacks, wrong donations, late donations, collaboration, and teamwork has never been a problem. It sounds like you've been in some awful clans if you think the only way to fix those problems is to go it alone. And yes, I did partly talk about the psychological aspect of the game. According to your OP psychology is a crucial element of your strategy. Now you're saying that psychology is unrelated to strategy, or is that just your way of arguing out of your foregone conclusions?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

• Psychological Warfare: This is a crucial part of the plan, morale of the rival clan should be shattered by 30-starring them within the first 30 minutes of war. Most of the clans would just plain give up when they see they've already lost all their stars so fast and most players would either leave the clan or not use their attacks. As soon as the war starts, their top bases would be instantly 3-starred.

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You've repeatedly stated that solo equates to perfection. Using your same bullets, here are some alternate outcomes.

Normal clan: one member gets sick, has a hardware or network problem, or is otherwise unavailable during battle day. Remaining members make up for the missed attacks.
Solo clan: one member gets sick. Not one attack at all. Zero. None.

Normal clan: one member gets sick, has a hardware or network problem, or is otherwise unavailable during prep day. Remaining members make up for the missed donations.
Solo clan: one member's device breaks during prep day. Not a single troop gets donated. Zero. None.

Normal clan: one member has an alternate viewpoint or learns about a new attack or game mechanics and shares it with another.
Solo clan: learns nothing new and receives no help from clanmates.

When you go it alone, you receive no support - in war, with strategy, with growth, and yes, with psychological motivation. Your theory is that solo equates to perfection. My theory is that going it alone may win you some wars, but it won't win you 230 wars - or 100 wars for that matter. Your experiment may prove my theory wrong. We'll see where you are in another year or so.

Interesting! Bookmarked your clan to keep an eye on it!

I really don't understand how this is at all useful...with a clan full of the bases you've got, you're basically getting paired against a bunch of little kids most of the time. Even if you're outmatched, they're likely not organized, and not very good attackers.

I'd be much more interested to see the effects of having heavily engineered TH8s 9s and 10s can have, as that where the bulk of the game is played, and where you get into more serious matchups against clans that actually have some skill.


For example, imagine a bunch of TH10s with no infernos, 3 level 1 xbows, and no/low level/only 1 or 2 of the 4 mortars and wizard towers upgraded, but with max cannons, archer towers, teslas, air d and sweepers.

Even with relatively high walls and decent heroes they'd likely be drawing a mid-stage TH9 in war that would probably have no shot at 3 stars on them, while they'd have max troop capacity, 2 extra spell spots, max loons, golems, hounds, hogs, and PEKKA (leaving freeze, witches, and any unnecessary troops/spells unupgraded will further help with matching), giving them access to at least 3 of the most common high level armies, which should make them able to 3 star most any TH9.

You build a clan of bases similar to this, you probably don't even need dummy accounts to round out your roster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

You're talking about the psychological aspect of the game, not tactical timing and flawless strategy. Your arugmeny is completely biased.

Normal Clan: Attack efficiency and execution depends on members. One bad member can lose the war. Unused attacks can lose the war. Etc.
Solo Clan: 100% attack efficiency, flawless timing

Normal Clan: Wrong donations and late donations.
Solo Clan: Perfect donations.

Normal Clan: Needs collaboration and teamwork.
Solo Clan: Perfect compatibility.

And there are more advantages. Also look up the definition of "inherent" and "advantage".

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You are right on. The only way to stop a 1 man clan of any kind is matchmaking. Most one man clan is skilled across the board from th3 to their highest maxed th they owned.

Interesting experiment.

And I think you can get an added dimension of data into it, if you could take note of the weight of each individual of your base and compared it on the opponent.

I am quite sure SC programs the matchmaking on an average (arguably also total clan war weight as total=average x no of bases), and also likely a spread (standard deviation), and very likely, also a quartile (eg the weight of the 25% base) as we've noticed cases where our clan gets outmatched or outmatches the top 2-4 opponents, and if those cases happens the bases ranked 5th or 6th is likely to be closed in weight. The lower quartile seems much less significant

A collection of 30 data points will help us try to crack it

Actually, I do see your point now and you're right. But what I meant by psychological WARFARE is different than psychology. You're right that clan members cheer each other up, help and guide each other in normal clans. But what I'm trying to mention is breaking the enemy clan apart not improving your clan morale. For example, half of my current rival rage quit when I joined their clan and crushed their hope. It's psychological WARFARE not psychology. Again, check definition as I choose my words very carefully and precisely.

Also, read the goals again. One of the main goals is xp boosting (check definition: online game stats boosting). This is supposed to be easiest way of boosting a clan xp and level. I hope now someone wouldn't just go ahead and say getting a lot of good members and making big wars is easier because it's dead wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SharkyFinn

Now you're showing your bias. In all the time we've been warring, bad attacks, unused attacks, wrong donations, late donations, collaboration, and teamwork has never been a problem. It sounds like you've been in some awful clans if you think the only way to fix those problems is to go it alone. And yes, I did partly talk about the psychological aspect of the game. According to your OP psychology is a crucial element of your strategy. Now you're saying that psychology is unrelated to strategy, or is that just your way of arguing out of your foregone conclusions?


You've repeatedly stated that solo equates to perfection. Using your same bullets, here are some alternate outcomes.

Normal clan: one member gets sick, has a hardware or network problem, or is otherwise unavailable during battle day. Remaining members make up for the missed attacks.
Solo clan: one member gets sick. Not one attack at all. Zero. None.

Normal clan: one member gets sick, has a hardware or network problem, or is otherwise unavailable during prep day. Remaining members make up for the missed donations.
Solo clan: one member's device breaks during prep day. Not a single troop gets donated. Zero. None.

Normal clan: one member has an alternate viewpoint or learns about a new attack or game mechanics and shares it with another.
Solo clan: learns nothing new and receives no help from clanmates.

When you go it alone, you receive no support - in war, with strategy, with growth, and yes, with psychological motivation. Your theory is that solo equates to perfection. My theory is that going it alone may win you some wars, but it won't win you 230 wars - or 100 wars for that matter. Your experiment may prove my theory wrong. We'll see where you are in another year or so.

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I'd be interested to see what kind of bases you match up with. Especially the TH8 or whatever the opponent top is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

You're talking about the psychological aspect of the game, not tactical timing and flawless strategy. Your arugmeny is completely biased.

Normal Clan: Attack efficiency and execution depends on members. One bad member can lose the war. Unused attacks can lose the war. Etc.
Solo Clan: 100% attack efficiency, flawless timing

Normal Clan: Wrong donations and late donations.
Solo Clan: Perfect donations.

Normal Clan: Needs collaboration and teamwork.
Solo Clan: Perfect compatibility.

And there are more advantages. Also look up the definition of "inherent" and "advantage".

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What happens if you lose your internet? What happens if you have an emergency? What happens if you lose electricity because of a storm? No attacks used and your clan loses. So there are disadvantages as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hashtagbene

I'd be interested to see what kind of bases you match up with. Especially the TH8 or whatever the opponent top is.

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So far, top enemy has usually been max TH8 with either AD6 or 5. 2nd top is usually a max TH7 with max walls. 3 and 4 are usually TH6 or 5. The rest are often mismatched TH5 and 4 against my 4 and 3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

So far, top enemy has usually been max TH8 with either AD6 or 5. 2nd top is usually a max TH7 with max walls. 3 and 4 are usually TH6 or 5. The rest are often mismatched TH5 and 4 against my 4 and 3.

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You're almost always able to 3star a max TH8 in one shot? Bravo to you for this. :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hashtagbene

You're almost always able to 3star a max TH8 in one shot? Bravo to you for this. :cool:

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Almost. But that doesn't matter because the goal is winning not perfect stars and you don't usually need 30 stars to actually win. A lot of lower THs get failed because of Valkyrie. Also my top has never got 3 starred yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

Actually, I do see your point now and you're right. But what I meant by psychological WARFARE is different than psychology. You're right that clan members cheer each other up, help and guide each other in normal clans. But what I'm trying to mention is breaking the enemy clan apart not improving your clan morale. For example, half of my current rival rage quit when I joined their clan and crushed their hope. It's psychological WARFARE not psychology. Again, check definition as I choose my words very carefully and precisely.

Also, read the goals again. One of the main goals is xp boosting (check definition: online game stats boosting). This is supposed to be easiest way of boosting a clan xp and level. I hope now someone wouldn't just go ahead and say getting a lot of good members and making big wars is easier because it's dead wrong.

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Boosting clan xp/level in 10 vs 10 wars takes forever even if you win every match. There is a level 7 clan with zero wins! The best way to boost clan xp is to do big wars, doesn't even matter if you win.

Awesome project. I think you'll have no trouble winning nearly 100% of wars. Coordination, structure, and skill mean that you will outclass the vast majority of clans.

The risk I see is when you don't 3 star their #1 and they also manage to 3 star your TH8. If the opponent gets your TH8, they should be able to get the rest. I'm not sure what a good risk mitigation strategy would be.

I'd be tempted to suggest adding a no defense TH8 so that you have an extra attempt on two bases. The downside is that you'd increase the times that they have two reasonable attempts on your #1 and maybe increase the difficulty of their #1/#2 somewhat. However, you should gain more because you control both attacks and can improve more between attempts than your opponents can.

I think the risk mitigation would be worth it, but I'm not sure about it. It would narrow the gap in wars, but I think it would reduce your variance more than enough to compensate for the decrease in the difference in the average star margin and net an increase in overall win rate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snarg

About twice a month a thread comes along that is well thought out, well written and has relevant, pertinent ideas.

It is inevitable that the first few responses will be garbage.

Reav3R, I, for one, applaud you and the effort you are going through. You are taking the time and effort to prove or disprove what the forum 'experts' think they know. Thank you for your time. Adding this thread to my subscription list.

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People have been doing this since day ONE of clan wars. There are people with multiple town hall 9 and 10 accounts doing 20 vs 20 wars all by themselves. The guy in the level 5 clan "One For All" (he has 20 accounts) has been doing the same thing as the OP but way longer. I will say that low level 10 vs 10 wars is child's play, do this with only town hall 9 and 10 accounts. Do this with a Maxed and several other 80,000 war weight town hall 10's, that will impress me if the OP can win 85+ wars in a row.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JtB

Boosting clan xp/level in 10 vs 10 wars takes forever even if you win every match. There is a level 7 clan with zero wins! The best way to boost clan xp is to do big wars, doesn't even matter if you win.

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It's the easiest way. Easiest != Fastest. Effective != Efficient. I just wish people would read my posts word by word not skim through it as a whole. Most of forum members are probably not native speakers so they misunderstand most of my posts because I choose every single word with a purpose. A 5v10 war nets 130 XP max, a 25v50 war nets 230 XP max, the difference it just 100 XP and that Lv 7 clan you've mentioned lost 50 of it (because they never won) so they've only been gaining 50 more XP than me at most (180 XP MAX). However, finding 49 members that don't quit during war and use all their attacks isn't exactly easy.

If you're looking to boost clan XP, the most effective way and the easiest is making 5 accounts and winning all wars for 130 XP per war, it's NOT losing 50v50 wars for 180 XP MAX (you probably wouldn't even get 130 XP per war because your members would leave/afk). Your assumption is plain false this time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JtB

People have been doing this since day ONE of clan wars. There are people with multiple town hall 9 and 10 accounts doing 20 vs 20 wars all by themselves. The guy in the level 5 clan "One For All" (he has 20 accounts) has been doing the same thing as the OP but way longer. I will say that low level 10 vs 10 wars is child's play, do this with only town hall 9 and 10 accounts. Do this with a Maxed and several other 80,000 war weight town hall 10's, that will impress me if the OP can win 85+ wars in a row.

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Read main post again, and if you still think this has any relevance, well, read it over again.

Can you post the recent warlogs here? I'm busy setting up my own clan so I can't always join.

I'm not even trying to be a pill at all reaver, your thread and project is very cool, I hope you have all the fun in the world. But it isn't new, enormous numbers of clans run dead bases to affect matching, and have for at least the year that the possibility of affecting matching has even been on my mind.

The forums very own Skoif has a mixed, inc high level (th10 etc) 1 man clan that rattled off 18 consecutive perfect wars in a row at one point. Its "custom war clan", 114-3 according to his clan description. There was a thread about the longest perfect streak for mixed clans once, there wasn't a single post challenging skoifs total, even remotely.

I didn't mean that to sound discouraging, just saying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bacdar

Can you post the recent warlogs here? I'm busy setting up my own clan so I can't always join.

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There's only one more win after the war log on main post atm. An updated log will be posted each 2 weeks with 7 new wars.

But common dude..ive been reading this stuff for many, many months lol

Its not an experiment, when everyone already knows it works :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

We know that it's theoretically possible for a max TH8 and lowers to 3-star any other base design of same level, so we mistakenly assume that it's obviously possible to win/draw all wars therefore this experiment is pointless. Well, that is wrong because not all wars are 100% balanced, and you might (and eventually will) run into an unbeatable opponent with the wrong combination of THs.

I'm trying to show a combination that can beat even the strongest opponent that can possibly be matched, not just try to win wars with 5 random accounts. That's the point.

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We do this in one of our clans, and went 65 wins before we ran into another clan of alts that couldn't be beaten, only tied. That's the true test there, to run into another engineered clan. You might have to fight a lot of wars before you can pick up any meaningful data.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DirtyWolf

We do this in one of our clans, and went 65 wins before we ran into another clan of alts that couldn't be beaten, only tied.

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Do you, by any chance, have the screenshot of 65 win streak war log?

Reaver i'd like to propose making a 15 player engineering clan.

If we brainstorm about the perfect engineered setup I could join your clan. Currently have a TH10 account that can be used to donate max troops and I have 2 almost maxed TH7 accounts and a few TH3 dummies. Alternatively I could always upgrade some of my TH3 villages to TH4 or TH5 (depending what is best)

If we would use the dominance experiment we only need 8 active accounts to max star a 15player clan.

For awhile I thought about creating my own 10 player war clan but I'm afraid I would abandon it cause it would get really boring with noone to talk to lol. Let me know.

I was thinking using my TH10 account to spy in the enemy clan and wreak some havoc if you know what I mean :smirk: would be funny

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bacdar

Reaver i'd like to propose making a 15 player engineering clan.

If we brainstorm about the perfect engineered setup I could join your clan. Currently have a TH10 account that can be used to donate max troops and I have 2 almost maxed TH7 accounts and a few TH3 dummies. Alternatively I could always upgrade some of my TH3 villages to TH4 or TH5 (depending what is best)

If we would use the dominance experiment we only need 8 active accounts to max star a 15player clan.

For awhile I thought about creating my own 10 player war clan but I'm afraid I would abandon it cause it would get really boring with noone to talk to lol. Let me know.

I was thinking using my TH10 account to spy in the enemy clan and wreak some havoc if you know what I mean :smirk: would be funny

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Wow... Some real winners play CW anymore.

Maybe after war we can cruise the playgrounds and beat up some 3-5 year olds? What do you say? It would be boring to do it all by myself and I think it would be much more fun if I had a friend to hold them to the ground while I really lay into them!

Send me your kik details and we'll get it sorted out!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Terraist

Wow... Some real winners play CW anymore.

Maybe after war we can cruise the playgrounds and beat up some 3-5 year olds? What do you say? It would be boring to do it all by myself and I think it would be much more fun if I had a friend to hold them to the ground while I really lay into them!

Send me your kik details and we'll get it sorted out!

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Haha

I'm interested in the engineering setup. The spying in the enemy clan is just the icing on the cake :cool:

It's just a game why not make it more interesting. Reading the chatlogs from enemy clan could be interesting :) Maybe I could write a book: "The tales of Bacdar the Spy"

While this may sound like a good idea at first, you should keep in mind that 10v is the smallest possible war and most new clans struggle to get 10 members and start a war as soon as they get 10. Some of those members will leave during war and even the whole clan might shatter. But if we start a 15v war, it means the enemy clan at least has some level of stability which makes it harder. That's the reason I chose 5v10 wars over 8v15, otherwise I could've made 3 more TH3s for 8v15.

A good setup for 8v15 would be: TH=8,7,5,4,4,3,3,3 max + 7 fake TH3s. The max XP difference between a 10v & 15v is only 20 XP which is negligible. Overall, it's neither worth the effort or the time to do a 8v15 for the purpose of XP boosting. Also, a max TH10 is not required for donating troops. Lower THs would only need max loons which is possible to get from the max TH8 already in the experiment.

In my opinions the only war sizes worth doing are: 5v10 (130 XP) = broken enemy clan, 20v40 (210 XP) = balance between effort & xp, 25v50 (230 XP) = farming loss xp.

I would really appreciate your offer and thanks for the time you took to write your post, but I'd have to respectfully decline. However, feel free to join my clan from time to time if you're bored and feel like chatting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bacdar

Reaver i'd like to propose making a 15 player engineering clan.

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*************************

Umm, not sure if this is sarcasm or something else. But either way, your post makes no sense.:unsure:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Terraist

Wow... Some real winners play CW anymore.

Maybe after war we can cruise the playgrounds and beat up some 3-5 year olds? What do you say? It would be boring to do it all by myself and I think it would be much more fun if I had a friend to hold them to the ground while I really lay into them!

Send me your kik details and we'll get it sorted out!

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You have a good point it seems 8v15 is indeed a waste of time. I didn't know the clan experience increase is so little. Not worth the effort.

I'll hop in your clan now and then and check your progress :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

While this may sound like a good idea at first, you should keep in mind that 10v is the smallest possible war and most new clans struggle to get 10 members and start a war as soon as they get 10. Some of those members will leave during war and even the whole clan might shatter. But if we start a 15v war, it means the enemy clan at least has some level of stability which makes it harder. That's the reason I chose 5v10 wars over 8v15, otherwise I could've made 3 more TH3s for 8v15.

A good setup for 8v15 would be: TH=8,7,5,4,4,3,3,3 max + 7 fake TH3s. The max XP difference between a 10v & 15v is only 20 XP which is negligible. Overall, it's neither worth the effort or the time to do a 8v15 for the purpose of XP boosting. Also, a max TH10 is not required for donating troops. Lower THs would only need max loons which is possible to get from the max TH8 already in the experiment.

In my opinions the only war sizes worth doing are: 5v10 (130 XP) = broken enemy clan, 20v40 (210 XP) = balance between effort & xp, 25v50 (230 XP) = farming loss xp.

I would really appreciate your offer and thanks for the time you took to write your post, but I'd have to respectfully decline. However, feel free to join my clan from time to time if you're bored and feel like chatting.



*************************

Umm, not sure if this is sarcasm or something else. But either way, your post makes no sense.:unsure:

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Wait, so you won't do higher than 10 vs 10 wars because they would be harder? So why are you doing this, just to beat up on newbie clans and watch them fall apart like you mentioned? I have a suggestion for you, go to the gym, you will feel better about yourself and smashing newbie clans filled with town hall 4's and 5's will lose its luster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JtB

Wait, so you won't do higher than 10 vs 10 wars because they would be harder? So why are you doing this, just to beat up on newbie clans and watch them fall apart like you mentioned? I have a suggestion for you, go to the gym, you will feel better about yourself and smashing newbie clans filled with town hall 4's and 5's will lose its luster.

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It's an experiment. I suggest you read the OP again ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JtB

Wait, so you won't do higher than 10 vs 10 wars because they would be harder?

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No, because it would be a complete waste of time and pointless unless it's a 25v50. Why can't people read?

PS: Also primary school math.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

No, because it would be a complete waste of time and pointless unless it's a 25v50. Why can't people read?

PS: Also primary school math.

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People can read. Specifically, they can read what you wrote:

Quote:

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But if we start a 15v war, it means the enemy clan at least has some level of stability which makes it harder. That's the reason I chose 5v10 wars over 8v15

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JtB was pretty harsh in the way he phrased it; but you've completely lost me as well in terms of what exactly the experiment is testing. I thought it was a combination of TH that would be unbeatable. But now you are stating you've chosen some of the parameters in order to match against hopelessly incompetent clans.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

People can read. Specifically, they can read what you wrote:


JtB was pretty harsh in the way he phrased it; but you've completely lost me as well in terms of what exactly the experiment is testing. I thought it was a combination of TH that would be unbeatable. But now you are stating you've chosen some of the parameters in order to match against hopelessly incompetent clans.

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This experiment is testing the most effective way of boosting clan xp which requires the least possible effort. Check goals again. It doesn't have to be unbeatable (goal 2), it just needs to win most matches for +130 xp and ALL losses should be +80 xp.

Difference between 10v and 15v is negligible whether you win or lose and it's harder. The balance point between fast xp (80 loss 130 win) and little effort is this 10v combination.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Terraist

Wow... Some real winners play CW anymore.

Maybe after war we can cruise the playgrounds and beat up some 3-5 year olds? What do you say? It would be boring to do it all by myself and I think it would be much more fun if I had a friend to hold them to the ground while I really lay into them!

Send me your kik details and we'll get it sorted out!

---

Hahahaha! Brilliant post!

I say again..this is not an experiment! its borderline bullying lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

This experiment is testing the most effective way of boosting clan xp which requires the least possible effort. Check goals again. It doesn't have to be unbeatable (goal 2), it just needs to win most matches for +130 xp and ALL losses should be +80 xp.

Difference between 10v and 15v is negligible whether you win or lose and it's harder. The balance point between fast xp (80 loss 130 win) and little effort is this 10v combination.

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You don't need to test to find out the best or most efficient way to gain xp, you just need to know some math...and the math is very simple: get the largest clan as possible and ensure people get at least one star on every base. War win is not the most important factor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TangoFever

You don't need to test to find out the best or most efficient way to gain xp, you just need to know some math...and the math is very simple: get the largest clan as possible and ensure people get at least one star on every base. War win is not the most important factor.

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The whole point of what I've said in previous replies is that finding 49 people for back to back wars who WILL use their attacks and getting 50 bases 1-starred each war is MUCH harder AND slower (because most of the wars, you would just lose with like 10-20 stars max) than controlling 5 accounts, three of which being low level. War Attacks themselves take 30 minutes every 2 days. Losing big wars is definitely NOT the fastest or easiest way to boost your XP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

This experiment is testing the most effective way of boosting clan xp which requires the least possible effort. Check goals again. It doesn't have to be unbeatable (goal 2), it just needs to win most matches for +130 xp and ALL losses should be +80 xp.

Difference between 10v and 15v is negligible whether you win or lose and it's harder. The balance point between fast xp (80 loss 130 win) and little effort is this 10v combination.

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Hmmm... I've been lurking in this thread and the recent discussions on fastest clan xp has got me considering the 25v50 option. I have 20 active accounts and it would only take a short while to get 5 more going. Getting the 25 "dead" TH3 would take work and friends to get them created legally, but could probably be done.

Any opinions/speculation on whether the clan would ever make a valid match with 25 minimum TH3 accounts? The other 25 would be normal spread from Max TH10 and down...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joNDel

Hmmm... I've been lurking in this thread and the recent discussions on fastest clan xp has got me considering the 25v50 option. I have 20 active accounts and it would only take a short while to get 5 more going. Getting the 25 "dead" TH3 would take work and friends to get them created legally, but could probably be done.

Any opinions/speculation on whether the clan would ever make a valid match with 25 minimum TH3 accounts? The other 25 would be normal spread from Max TH10 and down...

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I imagine the problem with big wars with very low accounts would be finding matches. It might take long to find matches and they might be heavily unbalanced (in enemy clan's favor) but still winnable. If you can control that many accounts yourself, go for it.

I find the experiment somewhat interesting. It might very well be one of the more efficient ways to gain clan XP.

The way this is engineered I am not at all shocked that he is a achieving perfect wars . Essentially you need the ability to three star a max th8 with a max offense th8 . I assume the OP ps pretty skilled so I not surprised he can do this . I consider myself only moderately skilled and I manage this with a high success rate .

I know this is an experiement but ultimately seems a pretty boring way to proceed ( alone and with really one challenging Attack at all of the 10 you must do every way ). I will check in though to see how it goes .

on matching
1. I think it is pretty clear that overall clan weight is the first and biggest factor
2. I believe there are a number of other secondary tests designed to prevent the impossible wars that could come from a average only ..
3 matching for us has been great lately ..

I'm not interested in the fastest or most efficient way to earn clan exp but I'm very interested in the always win concept.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to replace one of your Fake TH3 accounts with a defenseless TH9 account?

Yes I know it's very painful to set up a defenseless TH9 account and it's obnoxious to maintain it (farming elixer for your war army)

Reason I ask is because I don't believe a Max TH8 can 3 Star a Max TH8 consequently 100% of the time. As I saw in your War Log you 1starred a TH8 and he 1starred you in return.

Okay in the end you still won the war but in theory it's still risky.

Your thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Bacdar

I'm not interested in the fastest or most efficient way to earn clan exp but I'm very interested in the always win concept.

Wouldn't it be a good idea to replace one of your Fake TH3 accounts with a defenseless TH9 account?

Yes I know it's very painful to set up a defenseless TH9 account and it's obnoxious to maintain it (farming elixer for your war army)

Reason I ask is because I don't believe a Max TH8 can 3 Star a Max TH8 consequently 100% of the time. As I saw in your War Log you 1starred a TH8 and he 1starred you in return.

Okay in the end you still won the war but in theory it's still risky.

Your thoughts?

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Only if you can endure the trouble of maintaining such account. I wouldn't say it's necessary because you don't NEED 30 stars to win a war, with this combination you will be mostly matched against broken clans who would lose anyway. Technically, you can win a 10v war with max xp with only 10 stars.

too troublesome....i'd rather have an entry level TH9 account wherein at least it can defend against the general farming attacks and keep some loot for me so that I can save for heroes / troops...

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

Only if you can endure the trouble of maintaining such account. I wouldn't say it's necessary because you don't NEED 30 stars to win a war, with this combination you will be mostly matched against broken clans who would lose anyway. Technically, you can win a 10v war with max xp with only 10 stars.

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I noticed that your Max TH4 accounts one has 27 walls and one got 26 walls why is that? Is this a typo or is there a reason behind this?

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Originally Posted by Bacdar

I noticed that your Max TH4 accounts one has 27 walls and one got 26 walls why is that? Is this a typo or is there a reason behind this?

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That one wall can distract (path) WBs for long enough to get crushed by valk/loon if you put it in front of others. Usually doesn't matter much based on the low experience of enemies.

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

That one wall can distract (path) WBs for long enough to get crushed by valk/loon if you put it in front of others. Usually doesn't matter much based on the low experience of enemies.

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If that's true why not have 27 walls in both TH4 accounts?

Edit: nvm I got it cause of CC troops. Hmmmmmmm.

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Originally Posted by Bacdar

If that's true why not have 27 walls in both TH4 accounts?

Edit: nvm I got it cause of CC troops. Hmmmmmmm.

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Because unless they're the absolute worst clan in the world, they're not gonna fall for the same trick twice. Also, chance of bringing WBs is already low anyway. But since one wall wouldn't make much of a difference, I decided to put it anyway.

In my old days I remember barching enemy bases 2 tiers higher than me and getting angry it didn't work :D

This happened more than 2 times :p

I think a TH3 / TH4 would definitely fall for the same trick again unless the bases look identical but I checked yours and they are a little different.

In your OP you say TH8 can 3star TH8 but I noticed you 1starred the enemy TH8 2 times with mass dragons. You still won the war but still it's a risk.

1) What is the best attack strategy for the max TH8 to 3 star the other max TH8?
2) If time was not an issue what would be the best defenseless TH to add to the 5v10 dominance experiment?

I thought a defenseless TH9 to the setup would be nice to guarantee 3 stars on a max TH8. It also serves to reduce war weight. Maybe replace it with the TH7? With the clanperk TH9 can donate max dragon for your TH8.

I don't know how hard it will be for the defenseless TH9 to farm resources for your attack army though but I can guess you can always barch in gold league. Your thoughts?

Are visitors still welcome?^^

And I see you added another account on there (Reap3r or smth like that), what's its use?

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Originally Posted by Bacdar

0)In your OP you say TH8 can 3star TH8 but I noticed you 1starred the enemy TH8 2 times with mass dragons. You still won the war but still it's a risk.
1) What is the best attack strategy for the max TH8 to 3 star the other max TH8?
2) If time was not an issue what would be the best defenseless TH to add to the 5v10 dominance experiment?
3) I thought a defenseless TH9 to the setup would be nice to guarantee 3 stars on a max TH8. It also serves to reduce war weight. Maybe replace it with the TH7? With the clanperk TH9 can donate max dragon for your TH8.
4) I don't know how hard it will be for the defenseless TH9 to farm resources for your attack army though but I can guess you can always barch in gold league. Your thoughts?

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0) It's because I forgot to zap-quake the ADs before releasing the dragons, 813R is still a very reliable strategy if pulled off correctly. The two 1-star incidents were just result of not being careful enough, otherwise the enemy bases were really easy to 3-star. Every single time I've failed to 3-star a max TH8 with my main was because I was careless and screwed something up during attack, otherwise my strategy/plan was 100% flawless.

1) Definitely 813R, and don't let anyone tell you it's hogs. After the update, any max TH8 can technically be 3-starred with 813R, even those 3-starrable with 105.xx. If you fail dragons, the worst possible result is a 1-star, no matter how bad you screw up. On the other hand, if you fail hogs, you will end up with a terrible 0-star. Therefore, Mass Drag is the most reliable strategy at TH8 (definition lookup: reliable). Basically: zap-qauake hardest AD, mass drag the 2nd hardest AD then take it out with camp loons, snipe backside AD with raged CC loons. Guaranteed 3-star on any base if executed flawlessly.

2) 100% defenseless TH9 with Dragon Lv. 4, Max Loons & Max Spells. 220 Camp Space and other buildings at lowest possible levels (ideally, no mines should be built either) and with zero walls.

3) The aim of this experiment is to find the easiest way of boosting clan XP.

4) It won't be as easy as it sounds, takes a lot of effort and time. As it's always said, defenseless THs pay the price of it outside clan wars.

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

1) Definitely 813R, and don't let anyone tell you it's hogs. After the update, any max TH8 can technically be 3-starred with 813R, even those 3-starrable with 105.xx. If you fail dragons, the worst possible result is a 1-star, no matter how bad you screw up. On the other hand, if you fail hogs, you will end up with a terrible 0-star. Therefore, Mass Drag is the most reliable strategy at TH8 (definition lookup: reliable). Basically: zap-qauake hardest AD, mass drag the 2nd hardest AD then take it out with camp loons, snipe backside AD with raged CC loons. Guaranteed 3-star on any base if executed flawlessly.

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I've seen attempts to take out the back airdef with raged lvl 5 loons fail a few times because it had all the red air mines around it. Not much you can do about that unless you have other TH8s who can re-attack with a different strategy.

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Originally Posted by hashtagbene

Are visitors still welcome?^^

And I see you added another account on there (Reap3r or smth like that), what's its use?

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They both have a '3' in their name.

Illuminati confirmed.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

I've seen attempts to take out the back airdef with raged lvl 5 loons fail a few times because it had all the red air mines around it. Not much you can do about that unless you have other TH8s who can re-attack with a different strategy.

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Remember that we're often talking about clans with little to no experience, most of them are open so I can join and check their trap positions anyway. Also, you don't even need to know air bombs because you can just save 1 loon from camp, deploy that first as decoy then deploy the CC loons.

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Originally Posted by hashtagbene

Are visitors still welcome?^^

And I see you added another account on there (Reap3r or smth like that), what's its use?

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He's my IRL friend not my alt account and he's not in war. I'm just helping him out with clan perk. And yes, visitors are still welcome.

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

Remember that we're often talking about clans with little to no experience, most of them are open so I can join and check their trap positions anyway. Also, you don't even need to know air bombs because you can just save 1 loon from camp, deploy that first as decoy then deploy the CC loons.



He's my IRL friend not my alt account and he's not in war. I'm just helping him out with clan perk. And yes, visitors are still welcome.

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Wow I wish I had IRL friends :cool:

one of the easiest th lvls for hogging....
gowipe if the base is too spread out...
and dragloon if the ad's level are too low...

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Originally Posted by hashtagbene

You're almost always able to 3star a max TH8 in one shot? Bravo to you for this. :cool:

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Originally Posted by athancoreextreme

it's not a miracle if you can 3star a max th8 using a th8 95% of the time

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This ^
/10this

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Originally Posted by athancoreextreme

one of the easiest th lvls for hogging....
gowipe if the base is too spread out...
and dragloon if the ad's level are too low...

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Average TH8 attackers can't^^

Btw this time he tripled a TH9 XD OK a pretty bad one :cool:

Me and a friend are going to do this experiment. Would it fail without the level 5 clanperk?

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Originally Posted by Bacdar

Would it fail without the level 5 clanperk?

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Would be harder since you're gonna have to get max loons from other clans, lower THs can do just fine with level 5 but your TH8 would almost always NEED max loons to 3-star.

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Originally Posted by Reav3R

Would be harder since you're gonna have to get max loons from other clans, lower THs can do just fine with level 5 but your TH8 would almost always NEED max loons to 3-star.

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He got a TH10 account so the attacking army is np. I was just thinking about the CC defense. You can't donate troops if you're not in the war and the TH8 can't donate max loons without the clanperk. Maybe this is insignificant but I was just wondering.

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Originally Posted by Bacdar

He got a TH10 account so the attacking army is np. I was just thinking about the CC defense. You can't donate troops if you're not in the war and the TH8 can't donate max loons without the clanperk. Maybe this is insignificant but I was just wondering.

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Valk 2 to 3 can often be the difference between a dead valk 3-star and an alive valk 2-star.

Here's the War Log for the first two weeks of the experiment, as expected all wars have been Won with maximum XP (+130):
https://i.imgur.com/8h70yYw.jpg

Keep in mind that it's technically possible to win a 10v war with maximum XP with only 10-stars (1 star every enemy base) if they enemy clan scores less than 10 total stars.

Longbow Experiment claimed that the algorithm would try to break your Win Streak by giving you an unwinnable mismatch every 9 wars, this is completely false. However, the game DOES seem to give a heavy mismatch every 10 or so wars in order to break you streak but it's possible to win that. As you can see, my 10th war match was against a Lv. 5 engineered clan like my own with 2 MAX TH8s. But they still gave up after I 30-starred them within the first 30 minutes of the war (didn't bother using all their attacks since they wouldn't win anyway). In fact, my soft-limit match was one of the easiest matches for me even though the game anticipated that I would lose it.

Every 10 or so war, the algorithm intentionally matches you up with a much stronger clan (with higher weight) which would take considerably longer to find (took me relatively longer than my other matches) but it's only based on war weight. Just because they have a much higher weight than you, does NOT mean they WILL win the war as you can see. It's simply a challenge not a sure loss (if your clan is engineered of course).

Another war worth mentioning is the one after my soft-limit which I've won 28-27. While it might look like a tough close win, I assure you it's not. They've failed my #1 at the start of the war, therefore they technically had no chance of getting more than 27 stars so it was a Win from the start for me.

The hardest war for me was the last one because I was mismatched against another clan engineered exactly like my own. Read next post below for more information about this featured war.

This has been the hardest war so far because the enemy was a 1-man engineered like my own clan. However, he used all 10 accounts instead of 5 which made him recover from a few failed raids on my war bases. Basically, he had some second chances while I had none.

This my the 3-star raid on enemy's #1 which made me win this war. It almost ended up a 99% 1-star fail but two low-HP hogs clutched the TH for the 3-star:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXrhod3db08

We both scored 27-stared swiftly then waited for each other to carry out the #1 attack. Eventually, I went first and 3-starred his top, then he gave up and didn't bother attacking my #1 since he couldn't have 3-starred me with this trained army anyway:
https://i.imgur.com/01JGoxB.jpg

Here's full stats of this war:
https://i.imgur.com/HqhW74S.jpg

Here's my stars:
https://i.imgur.com/uaIyoYh.jpg

Here's enemy stars:
https://i.imgur.com/3Pq0reC.jpg

I have been following this thread for awhile now but couldn't post due to not having enough posts.

I like this experiment. I have 10 accounts and tried several setups but at some point I always got a tie. It was not a matter of 'if' but a matter of 'when' before I got the inevitable tie. This experiment seems to combat that issue. I'm tracking this topic and hoping to see more results in the near future.

One thing I do not understand is why you have that Max TH7 in your setup. I have a TH7 account with more than 400 war stars and I can confirm what you said. There is a 99% chance you get 3starred by an enemy TH7 and a 99,99% chance you get 3starred by an enemy TH8+

Unless I'm missing something here why not replace that Max TH7 with a defenseless TH7 to reduce the overall war weight?

One TH7 mass dragon army will cost you 350k elixer (10 dragons lvl2 + 3 lightning lvl4) 700k elixer isn't hard to barch. If you don't have the time you could always max the elixer drills.

OP. interesting... but I believe I have taken this to the next level. I have found a way to win 98% of wars and make a pretty big profit from every war
1. A th10 with th8 defenses and currently th9 troops

2. A th9 with th8 defenses and about 8.7 troops

☝☝☝
I call them my "defenders" they haven't been 3 starred yet
3. A custom built war account. Th9. Lvl1 walls 2 lvl3 X bows and 4 lvl7 teslas (looks a lot weaker than it actually is) Only hogs. Heal. And minions upgraded

4 a minimax account (max th6 then don't build any extra buildings. Just upgrade what you have) this one is about 3/4 way through th8

5. Another minimax (at new th8)

6 a defenseless account with th9 strength go wipe and max hogs. Plus nice spells

7. A th7 with no buildings but the tutorial buildings only buildings I've upgraded is cc( lvl3 barbs and archers)

8. My level 21 th5 with 783 war stars (same deal as 7)

9. Lvl6 abandoned account (only tutorial buildings) nothing upgraded at all

10. Same as 9

I use 8 and 7 to take out enemy bottom 4. This clears 4 spare attacks up the top for loot grabs.... Low cost high profit

Clan name: Custom war clan
118 wins 4 losses

Mu usual match ups are X2 new th9s or a max 8 a newish th8 a th7 a th6 and rest so low it's pointless saying

skoif, fast forward your clan 50 wars and update 4-6 of the bases to th9s in your clan and you have my clan. using just purely war loot and mining your engineered bases will eventually make th9 or so. we're 167-3.

plus th8 wars are Zzzz...