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I'm tired of it whenever I unleash a band of 8 wallbreakers to assist my troops, they just don't go to the desired wall. I feel wallbreakers, waste or benefit and should stick like glue to the first wall they come across. Words cannot describe just what I'm talking about so here is what I tried to do in my last recent raid.
Green is the desired target
Red is the target they went to
http://i.imgur.com/Bg8FMXa.jpg
Why do they still do this?
They're very love hate to me.
I still think the last update that "reverted" them is broken in some way as they are worse off imo.
No idea why they hate the idea of going inside the base to open up more walls when they can just go around it and open another outside section. Even if its the same section. :facepalm:
They target walls that open to a defensive building
In that case the cannon
they surly wont go to the wall you wanted becuase the wall is not enclosed, with a gap only a few spaces away.
I highly doubt they went to the outer level 8 wall, i bet they were walking past it to get to the inner wall, as for the spot on the left side, this spot is far enough away from the hole for them to attack, this is exactly what i would of expected them to do there is nothing broken with the wb AI.
I suggest you learn how they work, learn what thier AI tell them to do, that way you can plan your attacks MUCH better.
While avoiding the ♥♥♥♥neyed 'learn to path' rubbish I do feel this is more an issue of player skill.
For initial outer walls I find WB's totally predictable and I very rarely rely on them for pathing troops through inner walls. Clearly the further from the drop point the wall is you want, then the more chance of the little dudes going astray. I will always take a minimum of 10 for a GOWIPE for multiple entries and then jump for inner walls.
If I give them a very short rope my experience is they rarely hang themselves....which is cool as that leaves them free to blow themselves up.
Yes, agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Willivodka
The old, old WB AI would target nearest connected wall pieces (so would have allowed you to do what you wanted) but it worked less well because people would simply design bases with long wall spikes to draw them away.
Disagree. They do this even with no opening. I'm sorry that I don't really pay attention to the coding to know how they work. Because, I'd have to be this programmer, you know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Willivodka
No, without the oppening they would attack the nearest enclosed wall with a struktur in it, or walk a little further to a already damaged wall, say if your troops are already banging thier head on itQuote:
Originally Posted by Cynderalus
Now I am not saying WB AI is perfect however in most cases it seems to work out alright for me.
if you're using giants in that army then the red circle on the left actually isn't even that bad a spot to break the wall in my opinion.
I seriously cannot imagine you want WBs to target the very first wall piece they see or run across. Anyone remember the good old spike bases ? Or we will see designs with random wall bits around the base making WBs go even more wonky.
They do not do this with no opening. If you have a screenshot showing them doing something like this with no opening, you should definitely post it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynderalus
You don't need to be a programmer to understand how they work.
They are attracted to the nearest enclosed compartment with a building in it. Building not enclosed, they are not attracted. Building destroyed, they are not attracted. This holds true up until distances become too great.
Sounds like not enough people remember the wb-proof spike designs that K-cat referred to.
Look, it's far from perfect, better than the previous, tried a fix, it failed, got reverted.
That's about it. I'm with holps, only use them for 2-3 outer box breaks. Rest is easily done with jump or EQ.
Jumping or quaking outer walls can be difficult to funnel and path unless using mass jump, so wbs best choice for control there.
After that, you have 2 choices of highly effective spell, why waste camp space on something so fragile, ignoring the slight eccentricities?
What's wrong with wallbreaker AI?
As an aside, it makes me cringe when I see people dump 8 wallbreakers at a single wall segment. You have level 5 wallbreakers, you need TWO (2) to break that wall. Why are you dumping 8? Bring a couple barbs to cover for the wallbreakers (so the cannon is shooting the barbs), drop 2 wbs, watch wall pop...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynderalus
How Wallbreaker works Miniguide:
First lets assume for a second we deploying barbarians instead of wallbreakers. When deployed at the marked point they will go to the closest building, like so:
http://i.imgur.com/4Z2bUtp.jpg
That building is reachable without breaking any walls. So for the purpose of wallbreaker AI it doesn't matter so it I've erased it.
Now assuming we deploy again another barbarian, which building it will go after next:
http://i.imgur.com/NkdCn73.jpg
Again we erase that building since it is reachable.
And we continue considering which buildings barbarians would go after, erasing each one that it is found to be reachable:
http://i.imgur.com/PichCkp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HGFu9pJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fiUuHRw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/K5uTZmp.jpg
Let's stop for a second here. As you can see the hole in the wall allows reaching that elixir collector, so it is actually ignored by WB AI as well. Keep that in mind.
http://i.imgur.com/zXfsm5I.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JPMpIr9.jpg
Finally we reach the point were a barbarian would target a wall instead of a building. At this point the barbarian and WB behave exactly the same.
What WB AI does is skip over all the previous steps to reach the point where a wall needs to be broken in order to get to a target building. You have to keep in mind which target buildings get erased during the process in order to tell where a WB would go.
Thanks for the effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyobuae
As you can see above, the wallbreaker AI doesn't need fixing, you just need to learn how to use them properly. That defender knows how to use them, and has cleverly tricked the wallbreakers into moving around the base, allowing the cannons to shoot them quickly, because he has created a funnel for giants and barbarians. Very clever, if you ask me. You just need to learn how to counteract that.
I hate wall breakers. SC is playing games with the AI so people are forced to bring more jump spells, IE more money in their pockets for people gemming spells.
This "reverted AI" is worse than what the AI was supposed to be reverted to. If you need anything more than the first layer of walls blown up, good luck.
It seems like they put an even larger randomization into the AI so they target different things being deployed from the same spot. One will target a set of walls next to an opening that already has a hole in it, and the other WB will walk around the base to blow up a section of walls that doesn't have any buildings in the cavity. Neither help the situation of progressing into the base. I just had an attack, and this is very common lately, where I dropped 4 wbs in the same exact spot, and each WB targets 4 different spots.....:saywhat: SMH.....
They reverted back to something worse. In between the junk they put out and the stuff the junk was supposed to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfinch30
Explain??Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSS27
The failed change was a really smart idea. They made them try to target junctions at every opportunity.
There just happens to be a huge flaw in that. Like, in big wall boxes, you're probably going to want to break it in more than one place.
If you're going to say it's worse, explain how, and what your improvement suggestion would be.
I for example, think they might be slightly better if removed the: 'troops work together to break walls' directive from wallbreaker AI.
This would stop them running straight to where golems are parked and dying in splash, after you carefully offset them to prevent exactly that. This could have some terrible consequences, don't know, hasn't been tested.
AI isn't just change a number, keep all the good attributes, remove the bad.
Look at Queen AI, how completely she changed, how attacking and funnelling has changed.