Last 2 dark spells, alternatives to Heal and Freeze!

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August 29th, 2015
Floydical

Last 2 dark spells, alternatives to Heal and Freeze!

After taking a moment to look at the dark spells more closely, I realized that each of them is simply and alternative to an already existing elixir spell. The earthquake is simply an alternative to jump, the haste is simply an alternative to rage (in terms of air attacks) and the poison outright replaces lightning in terms of killing clan troops. Supercell obviously made these alternatives on purpose in order to reduce our overall brew times. Take haste instead of rage or EQ instead of jump and your brew times will be reduced. Not only that, but clearly they balanced these spells to be more or less effective than their counterpart depending on the specific situation.

With this in mind, I am wiling to assume that the last 2 dark spells will be an alternative to heal and freeze respectively. Both of them simply buy your troops more time, so both of the alternatives will do the same thing. These spells may seem redundant, but again, they are meant to bring diversity to the table, allowing your overall brew time to be reduced by utilizing both spell factories at once.

Dark spell 4 idea, damage reduction spell (alternative to heal):
- All allied units within the radius of the spell will take reduced damage from all defending buildings or units for a period of time. Like rage and haste, a unit will benefit from the spell for a few seconds after leaving its radius. The radius of the spell, its duration, its % damage reduction and the benefits of upgrading would be left to supercell's balancing. Its ultimate goal is the same as the heal spell, to buy your units more time.

Obviously the exact set of defenses you are facing might call for one over the other, but the main difference between this spell and the heal spell would be the time of deployment. Obviously you use heal when the units are lower on HP and they'll heal back up and benefit fully from the spell. The damage reduction spell, on the other hand, should be deployed soon after a group of units takes damage or just before they start taking damage. In addition, it would be unwise to use a queen's cloak while standing in its radius. Rather, if used over the queen, it should be used the instant she's about to take damage and save her ability for when the reduction spell is about to fade.

Dark spell 5 idea, slow spell (alternative to freeze):
- Like the freeze spell, this spell would be used on buildings and will literally reduce their rate of fire by a certain percentage. The slow spell would work on all defensive buildings, heroes and CC troops. This would obviously be best used on a small group of defenses that pose an immediate threat to your attack. Its radius, duration, % attack speed lost and upgrading benefits would be left to supercell's balancing.

Obviously it would be similar enough to freeze to where people would assume one is always better than the other, but if the radius was to be made drastically larger or the duration much longer while keeping the benefit low, it would cause many to make a priority of testing and balancing the benefits depending on the base structure. It should be noted that one could also combine spells like damage reduction and slow, or spells like heal and slow to make for an even more impervious army.

Now I would prefer to see these spells as early as TH8, but since haste require TH9, these will certainly require TH9 at a minimum. Requiring a lower TH level would certainly increase opportunities to test the new spells and create opportunities to identify their strengths. Now I don't actually expect these spells to be made, but I think I at least proved my point about dark spells simply being alternatives to elixir spells. Thank you for reading.
August 29th, 2015
willdabeast01123

Both are essentially the same thing. They reduce damage to troops from defenses. Also, sujalthelost has already suggested such a dark spell. His reduces damages to troops minimally, but increases damage to defenses greatly. A spell designed for the sole purpose of making defenses less effective would make golems even more tanky than they already are.
August 29th, 2015
charizzle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floydical

Take haste instead of rage or EQ instead of jump and your brew times will be reduced.

Not really. You need 4 earthquakes to do what a jump does. 4 EQs takes an hour total to brew, and 1 jump takes 30 mins. I'd agree with this 1 earthquake did what a jump did, but it simply doesn't.

On to the idea itself. I like the spells themselves. Especially the last one.
August 29th, 2015
Floydical

Quote:

Originally Posted by willdabeast01123

Both are essentially the same thing. They reduce damage to troops from defenses. Also, sujalthelost has already suggested such a dark spell. His reduces damages to troops minimally, but increases damage to defenses greatly. A spell designed for the sole purpose of making defenses less effective would make golems even more tanky than they already are.

The point here is diversity my friend. Imagine taking a couple damage reduction spells to a hog raid. You pre-emptively drop a cheap damage reduction spell on a double giant bomb spot, where it could be wasted or could save the raid. Again, its a matter of creating alternatives to existing strategies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by charizzle

Not really. You need 4 earthquakes to do what a jump does. 4 EQs takes an hour total to brew, and 1 jump takes 30 mins. I'd agree with this 1 earthquake did what a jump did, but it simply doesn't.

On to the idea itself. I like the spells themselves. Especially the last one.

Its still an alternative, take 4 EQ instead of 2 jump. If used in the right location in the right structure base, its just as good. The point is instead of having to overstock your elixir spell factory with rage spells, heal spells and jump spells, you can put 4 EQ into your DE spell factory and perhaps put 1 rage and 1 heal in your regular spell factory. You literally save an hour of brew time right there by splitting the work over 2 spell factories.
August 29th, 2015
willdabeast01123

Look at sujalthelost, he already has a better alternative to the first spell, and the second one is almost useless. Reducing rate of fire doesn't do anything if DPS stays the same. Only weak hordes would be affected.
August 29th, 2015
Floydical

Quote:

Originally Posted by willdabeast01123

Look at sujalthelost, he already has a better alternative to the first spell, and the second one is almost useless. Reducing rate of fire doesn't do anything if DPS stays the same. Only weak hordes would be affected.

Wait what? Every defense has a built-in damage per hit. Of course the dps would be reduced if you decreased a defense's rate of fire.... how was that not clear?
August 29th, 2015
willdabeast01123

Supercell increased archer tower rate of fire to take down weak hordes without increasing DPS at all. Seriously, do research before suggesting ideas. Decreasing rate of fire does not mean decreasing DPS in any way.
August 29th, 2015
Floydical

Quote:

Originally Posted by willdabeast01123

Supercell increased archer tower rate of fire to take down weak hordes without increasing DPS at all. Seriously, do research before suggesting ideas. Decreasing rate of fire does not mean decreasing DPS in any way.

If you're going to insult my intelligence you better be correct on the matter unless you want to make an utter fool of yourself like you are doing right now. They kept archer tower dps the same by increasing rate of fire and reducing damage per hit. This means this defense now has a built-in damage per hit that will not change. The slow spell will reduce the number of volleys each defense releases per second. Since the damage per hit of the defense stays the same, this spell will result in an overall decrease in damage output.
August 29th, 2015
willdabeast01123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floydical

If you're going to insult my intelligence you better be correct on the matter unless you want to make an utter fool of yourself like you are doing right now. They kept archer tower dps the same by increasing rate of fire and reducing damage per hit. This means this defense now has a built-in damage per hit that will not change. The slow spell will reduce the number of volleys each defense releases per second. Since the damage per hit of the defense stays the same, this spell will result in an overall decrease in damage output.

So does it decrease the DPS of defenses? Also, it's obvious that if you increase fire rate without changing DPS, the damage per each hit will go down. You said it's implied that lessening fire rate means lessening DPS, which I don't agree with, since it's not true. They increased fire rate without increasing DPS and as a consequence the damage per hit went down. Again, I ask, does this spell decrease DPS or just fire rate? It obviously changes damage per hit, I'm just questioning how it does so.
August 29th, 2015
Floydical

Quote:

Originally Posted by willdabeast01123

So does it decrease the DPS of defenses? Also, it's obvious that if you increase fire rate without changing DPS, the damage per each hit will go down. You said it's implied that lessening fire rate means lessening DPS, which I don't agree with, since it's not true. They increased fire rate without increasing DPS and as a consequence the damage per hit went down. Again, I ask, does this spell decrease DPS or just fire rate? It obviously changes damage per hit, I'm just questioning how it does so.

Dude, it wouldn't change damage per hit, it would decrease the number of shots per second while leaving the damage per hit the same. Of course this means it reduces the DPS of defenses. The spell will not cause the damage per hit to change, what don't you get about that???

The archer tower gained attack rate and lost damage per hit because they manually changed it to be like that. You are acting like this spell would cause affected buildings to automatically increase in damage per hit to make up for the decrease in attack speed, which is clearly not the case.

I swear, what is wrong with my explanation to cause such a misunderstanding?
August 30th, 2015
Frosticewolf

On the alternative to freeze spell, making defenses shoot slower won't do anything. It's damage per second, not damage per shot.
August 30th, 2015
Antdroid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floydical

After taking a moment to look at the dark spells more closely, I realized that each of them is simply and alternative to an already existing elixir spell. The earthquake is simply an alternative to jump, the haste is simply an alternative to rage (in terms of air attacks) and the poison outright replaces lightning in terms of killing clan troops. Supercell obviously made these alternatives on purpose in order to reduce our overall brew times. Take haste instead of rage or EQ instead of jump and your brew times will be reduced. Not only that, but clearly they balanced these spells to be more or less effective than their counterpart depending on the specific situation.

With this in mind, I am wiling to assume that the last 2 dark spells will be an alternative to heal and freeze respectively. Both of them simply buy your troops more time, so both of the alternatives will do the same thing. These spells may seem redundant, but again, they are meant to bring diversity to the table, allowing your overall brew time to be reduced by utilizing both spell factories at once.

Dark spell 4 idea, damage reduction spell (alternative to heal):
- All allied units within the radius of the spell will take reduced damage from all defending buildings or units for a period of time. Like rage and haste, a unit will benefit from the spell for a few seconds after leaving its radius. The radius of the spell, its duration, its % damage reduction and the benefits of upgrading would be left to supercell's balancing. Its ultimate goal is the same as the heal spell, to buy your units more time.

Obviously the exact set of defenses you are facing might call for one over the other, but the main difference between this spell and the heal spell would be the time of deployment. Obviously you use heal when the units are lower on HP and they'll heal back up and benefit fully from the spell. The damage reduction spell, on the other hand, should be deployed soon after a group of units takes damage or just before they start taking damage. In addition, it would be unwise to use a queen's cloak while standing in its radius. Rather, if used over the queen, it should be used the instant she's about to take damage and save her ability for when the reduction spell is about to fade.

Dark spell 5 idea, slow spell (alternative to freeze):
- Like the freeze spell, this spell would be used on buildings and will literally reduce their rate of fire by a certain percentage. The slow spell would work on all defensive buildings, heroes and CC troops. This would obviously be best used on a small group of defenses that pose an immediate threat to your attack. Its radius, duration, % attack speed lost and upgrading benefits would be left to supercell's balancing.

Obviously it would be similar enough to freeze to where people would assume one is always better than the other, but if the radius was to be made drastically larger or the duration much longer while keeping the benefit low, it would cause many to make a priority of testing and balancing the benefits depending on the base structure. It should be noted that one could also combine spells like damage reduction and slow, or spells like heal and slow to make for an even more impervious army.

Now I would prefer to see these spells as early as TH8, but since haste require TH9, these will certainly require TH9 at a minimum. Requiring a lower TH level would certainly increase opportunities to test the new spells and create opportunities to identify their strengths. Now I don't actually expect these spells to be made, but I think I at least proved my point about dark spells simply being alternatives to elixir spells. Thank you for reading.

Dark spell 4 sounds like you copied me and jaron's troop idea..
August 30th, 2015
Theking8133

I agree haste and rage are related, but I would disagree and say that a combo poison/earthquake would be a lightning spell. I don't see anyone bringing 2 earthquake over 1 jump.

However, your ideas are very similar to others suggested. Try using the search bar before you post.
August 30th, 2015
willdabeast01123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floydical

Dude, it wouldn't change damage per hit, it would decrease the number of shots per second while leaving the damage per hit the same. Of course this means it reduces the DPS of defenses. The spell will not cause the damage per hit to change, what don't you get about that???

The archer tower gained attack rate and lost damage per hit because they manually changed it to be like that. You are acting like this spell would cause affected buildings to automatically increase in damage per hit to make up for the decrease in attack speed, which is clearly not the case.

I swear, what is wrong with my explanation to cause such a misunderstanding?

So how substantial would the fire rate decrease be? Would it make the archer towers go from two seconds to four, six, eight seconds? For the purposes of destroying tanks, this wouldn't matter. I guess in a scenario such as barch this could work somewhat well. But the whole point of barch is keeping it cheap. Interesting concept, just not sure what army comps it would work well with.