Whats with all the town hall 8s whining about th9s?

I've seen like 4 threads in the last 2 days about town hall 8s crying about how impossible it is to defend against a town hall 9.

Well duhhhh, that's how the game is supposed to be. Just like th7s are impossible to defend against a th8, and a th9 is impossible to defend against a th10. Its the same at every town hall level.

Not to mention they most likely do it to th7s, but if a th9 does it to them its going too far and we must stop.

I can't help but think what the whiners would want instead. Do they want matchmaking to only include your town hall level? Well that would make trophies worthless, it would make finding loot even harder, causing game progression to take even more time. Do they want a bigger loot penalty for 1 town hall lower? Well guess what it applys to your juicy th7s too.

I definitely feel justified in saying that th8s should stop whining. I was a town hall 8 as well, I rushed it severely (didn't know about the loot penalty back then) and I still recovered to be a solid th9. If I, a rushed th8, could survive the attacks from th9 and still progress, so can you.

If it bothers you that much upgrade to th9 now. No one is making you max your base. Just do it and then realize that its no picnic here in th9.

I agree :)
Sure I got destroyed by th9 at th8, but I'm also getting destroyed by th10 at th9. Getting destroyed by higher town halls is a part of clash, deal with it.

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Originally Posted by charizzle

Do they want matchmaking to only include your town hall level?

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YES!!! That would be extremely awesome!

Might even outright kill off the game, but I would personally love it.

Maybe a less drastic approach would be to increase loot penalty to 25% when attacking one TH level lower. That way new TH can still farm lower TH until they get offense up to speed and can farm their same TH level peers.

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Originally Posted by charizzle

Well that would make trophies worthless, it would make finding loot even harder, causing game progression to take even more time. Do they want a bigger loot penalty for 1 town hall lower? Well guess what it applys to your juicy th7s too.

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I personally don't care about that. The game is quite fun attacking same TH level. Fun first, loot/progression is secondary.

As for trophies, they could still match you against higher TH levels when attacking when climbing too high in trophies.

I suppose it's unfortunate that the game relies on attacking down so much.

I used to hate getting destroyed by TH9s but now I do it all the time. Just so easy to wreck them with balloonion. But it is more satisfying to take down a max defense 9.

I have noticed I get hit by TH10s alot less as a TH9 than I got hit by TH9s as a TH8

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Originally Posted by ElToucan

I suppose it's unfortunate that the game relies on attacking down so much.

I used to hate getting destroyed by TH9s but now I do it all the time. Just so easy to wreck them with balloonion. But it is more satisfying to take down a max defense 9.

I have noticed I get hit by TH10s alot less as a TH9 than I got hit by TH9s as a TH8

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Really? I get hit by th10 at least 3 times a week, but I think its probably less than when I was th8

payback for all of the TH9s whining about TH8s zapping them

rush to th10 get lvl 3 infernos, then you can stop crying about getting attacked

Threads doing nothing but complaining are bad, yes, but threads complaining about people complaining? This is getting extremely annoying. You obviously think you know it all so why not just tell the th8s how to defend better instead of whining about it?

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Originally Posted by AdamCoC99

Threads doing nothing but complaining are bad, yes, but threads complaining about people complaining? This is getting extremely annoying. You obviously think you know it all so why not just tell the th8s how to defend better instead of whining about it?

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Never claimed I knew it all. I'm guessing your just an arrogant troll who enjoys putting words into people's mouth.

The point is you can't defend better against a town hall higher than you so deal with it.

Funny, I just wrote a thread yesterday trying to help th8's. That thread is falling fast off the top while the th8 complaint threads stay going strong. I think people would rather criticize someone, rather than help them.

Btw, isn't there a thread about a th9 complaining about queen walk taking all of their DE? Starting to see those pop up more and more.

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Originally Posted by AdamCoC99

Threads doing nothing but complaining are bad, yes, but threads complaining about people complaining? This is getting extremely annoying. You obviously think you know it all so why not just tell the th8s how to defend better instead of whining about it?

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And yet, when we tell them, they aren't willing to listen. All of us have been through th8, everyone's been hit. I've never cried, and nor have the large majority of players here. Why wouldn't we get irritated by these whiners? I mean, what do you even want us to do?

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Originally Posted by Yoyobuae

YES!!! That would be extremely awesome!

Might even outright kill off the game, but I would personally love it.

Maybe a less drastic approach would be to increase loot penalty to 25% when attacking one TH level lower. That way new TH can still farm lower TH until they get offense up to speed and can farm their same TH level peers.

I personally don't care about that. The game is quite fun attacking same TH level. Fun first, loot/progression is secondary.

As for trophies, they could still match you against higher TH levels when attacking when climbing too high in trophies.

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Have to disagree with you there, mate. Fun for me, IS progression, and that only happens with loot. Attacking down for loot is the way to go.

The 25% idea would just cause major shortages of loot for the highest townhalls. I attack other th9s when farming for DE, yes, but when i want gold or elixir, it would be silly using armies worth over 150k to get what, a 50k profit? That would completely ruin the game for me.

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Originally Posted by Alisreal

Have to disagree with you there, mate. Fun for me, IS progression, and that only happens with loot. Attacking down for loot is the way to go.

The 25% idea would just cause major shortages of loot for the highest townhalls. I attack other th9s when farming for DE, yes, but when i want gold or elixir, it would be silly using armies worth over 150k to get what, a 50k profit? That would completely ruin the game for me.

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The thing is that there's not enough incentive to attack at your own TH level. It takes more troops and doesn't provide that much more loot.

But that could be fixed by providing more incentives to players using expensive armies. For example a army cost % refund for higher leagues. Imagine what a 50% cost refund could do, spending 150k on an army, getting refunded 75k and getting looted resources and loot bonus on top of that. Big armies are good for pushing trophies as well, thus getting to the leagues where those bonuses apply.

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Originally Posted by Yoyobuae

The thing is that there's not enough incentive to attack at your own TH level. It takes more troops and doesn't provide that much more loot.

But that could be fixed by providing more incentives to players using expensive armies. For example a army cost % refund for higher leagues. Imagine what a 50% cost refund could do, spending 150k on an army, getting refunded 75k and getting looted resources and loot bonus on top of that. Big armies are good for pushing trophies as well, thus getting to the leagues where those bonuses apply.

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Hmm, i can't argue with that. I mean, sure, it will push me out of my comfort zone, but as long as i get the loot, it makes no difference.

People start whining at TH8 because that is where upgrades start getting more expensive. By this point they are addicted to the game and want to progress their bases as fast as possible. A big raid can set back starting an upgrade a day or so depending how much they play. It's funny because a lot of times they will post that they wreck TH7's but TH9's attacking them is unfair.

To all whiny TH8's: The next time you get raided, take a deep breath and remember, it's part of the game.

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Originally Posted by Yoyobuae

The thing is that there's not enough incentive to attack at your own TH level. It takes more troops and doesn't provide that much more loot.

But that could be fixed by providing more incentives to players using expensive armies. For example a army cost % refund for higher leagues. Imagine what a 50% cost refund could do, spending 150k on an army, getting refunded 75k and getting looted resources and loot bonus on top of that. Big armies are good for pushing trophies as well, thus getting to the leagues where those bonuses apply.

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Isn't that the whole,idea of having a huge bonus foor higher leagues? You can't always win a high league match with barch. Not unless you are in the high th attacking lower. Which seems to be the idea of why the mismatch is needed.

Real question is what league and what type of base do these people have? Yes, it is easy to get smacked around by a th 9. I do it now, i got hit often enough to know what it feels like but there is easy ways around it. Join crystal league at the least and keep th outside. 50k league bonus for both loot for a snipe in c2 is a huge draw to most. The whiners always seem to be hiding out in the high silver to mid gold. That's the bastion of high th eating up the little guys.

Honestly, change the amount of loot gotten to a lower % for a lower th and a lot of people may quit. The lower th attacking problem has always been there and people always work though it. Making it harder to farm is not even a logical answer. As a th 9 I can and often do farm off th 9s, but it is at least twice as hard to get all the collectors in that case. Same as a th 8 trying to loot amother the 8 when they just move up, all a sudden there is more storages to deal with.

In the end, the whiners will whine. CoC life will go on

Because they are planning to stay in th8 forever.

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Originally Posted by Rahle

Isn't that the whole,idea of having a huge bonus foor higher leagues? You can't always win a high league match with barch. Not unless you are in the high th attacking lower. Which seems to be the idea of why the mismatch is needed.

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It's not the same.

If I attack on higher league with a 200k+ elixir and 1k+ DE army I get the same exact league loot bonus than someone which uses a cheaper 50k~80k elix army (maybe gibarch). But with 50% cost refund I would get 100k elixir refund and 500 DE refund, while the player using cheaper army would only get 25k~40k elix refund. Spending more == get more refund. That doesn't happen with league bonus.

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Originally Posted by blaoivhee

Because they are planning to stay in th8 forever.

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I currently have my TH9 main abandoned, instead playing my TH8 alt account. XD

You always see the th8 players complaining like that because th8 is where the skilled players sperate from the player who drops troops and hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by carl11777

You always see the th8 players complaining like that because th8 is where the skilled players sperate from the player who drops troops and hope for the best.

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If TH9 were skilled then they wouldn't need to farm TH8s on silver leagues. :smirk:

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Originally Posted by Yoyobuae

It's not the same.

If I attack on higher league with a 200k+ elixir and 1k+ DE army I get the same exact league loot bonus than someone which uses a cheaper 50k~80k elix army (maybe gibarch). But with 50% cost refund I would get 100k elixir refund and 500 DE refund, while the player using cheaper army would only get 25k~40k elix refund. Spending more == get more refund. That doesn't happen with league bonus.

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In other words, League Perks (like Clan Perks but for trophy leagues), but with used troop cost refunds as one of the perks.

I like the idea and support it :thumbsup:

(Of course, you know as with any other change, there would be tons of complainers about getting raided non-stop by full war armies because of all the players getting troop refunds)

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Originally Posted by Yoyobuae

If TH9 were skilled then they wouldn't need to farm TH8s on silver leagues. :smirk:

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As if only one th lvl does that :smirk:

Being in silver has nothing to do with hitting lower th. Skill? Yes needed if you are targeting to get all storages. Try spamming everything on max th8 and lets see your replay..:smirk:

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Originally Posted by badfish1979

In other words, League Perks (like Clan Perks but for trophy leagues), but with used troop cost refunds as one of the perks.

I like the idea and support it :thumbsup:

(Of course, you know as with any other change, there would be tons of complainers about getting raided non-stop by full war armies because of all the players getting troop refunds)

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Yes. I also like the League Perks idea. Different leagues could each have their own perks. Would make pushing up the trophies a far more rewarding experience.

I personally wouldn't mind other TH8s attacking my base with war armies. I do that all the time. Also would allow easier experimenting with base designs.

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Originally Posted by Deadlyxda

As if only one th lvl does that

Being in silver has nothing to do with hitting lower th. Skill? Yes needed if you are targeting to get all storages. Try spamming everything on max th8 and lets see your replay..

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I attack with war armies all the time. TH8s are no problem at all:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRtN-_TEdnc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdB2bq2CEcM

Not maxed bases (skip to 9:49 on first vid for one near max), or have good CCs. Who cares? I find a base and flatten it and have loads of fun while doing it. :D

Work through it guys, everyone else was a th 8 at the same point. For me th 8 was so easy. Got it finished in 3 months and made myself a boss base that was 2 starred only once. Put the th in the corner and max those walls straight out, and keep a full cc of wiz (worked great b4 the update) and thats how I did it.

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Originally Posted by Yoyobuae

If TH9 were skilled then they wouldn't need to farm TH8s on silver leagues. :smirk:

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It has nothing to do with skill. It's simply down to the numbers.

The game has to function for both raiding and for war. The problem is that there is a vast amount of difference between the resources invested and the damage potential of war armies versus raiding armies. This means that defenses have to be strong enough to withstand the hard hitting war attacks. This means that, generally, hitting the same lvl townhall requires too large of a resource and time investment to make a profit. I attack th8s and rushed th9s becuase those are the bases I can make a profit on and not have to either wait a long time for a full army to train or next forever waiting for that max resource offering th9.
I definitely have the skill to attack th9s I just choose not to because it's not economical for me to do so.
Obviously this ignores the factor that loot bonus plays but due to the broken trophy system I'm not including this is my discussion.

To the OP. I assume those are the people that attack once maybe twice a day with poor shield management. That doesn't work in th8 and above if you want to progress yet you choose to stay at a low trophy lvl. They either need to push up out of prime farming zone or become farmers themselves.

I rememebr getting mauled by th9s and ya it was frustrating but there is a simple solution... make more than you will lose in a def b4 you log off.... it's not complicated. If you want to be a casual player than push up to crystal or masters and you will be safe there.

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Originally Posted by Yoyobuae

It's not the same.

If I attack on higher league with a 200k+ elixir and 1k+ DE army I get the same exact league loot bonus than someone which uses a cheaper 50k~80k elix army (maybe gibarch). But with 50% cost refund I would get 100k elixir refund and 500 DE refund, while the player using cheaper army would only get 25k~40k elix refund. Spending more == get more refund. That doesn't happen with league bonus.

I currently have my TH9 main abandoned, instead playing my TH8 alt account. XD

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I understand the idea, but point is unless the base is really bad, or the attacker super lucky, you will end up with a lot more loot from the base with a good war army. You may get the bonus with either army but the loot gotten would play a factor.

i can already see the fact that people will just start saying that I am getting hit with a war army all the time because they get half the loot back, I can't defend against a full army all the time. Have to remove the free loot. Which is not to say I would not love it. I have started using loonion and will likely farm with better soon, so more loot back would be great compared to gibarch which is the normal farm comp I use. However I really can't see them trying to make us use more expensive armies (barch nerf) just to hand us back a ton of free loot.

I find that main factor is that as people have said, when you get to the 8 it divides the folks that can farm good amounts and afford to lose to the higher th, from those that are unable to farm long periods or well with their troops. Maybe the base they use is generic and easy to beat. So they feel they have to complain and get special treatment in order to keep up. Their is a number of ways to fix the constant abuse they get from a higher level th. It's just that having to take the measures equals effort that they either do not want to take or feel they do not have the time to deal with.

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Originally Posted by targetweek

It has nothing to do with skill. It's simply down to the numbers.

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Exactly.

So this post:

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Originally Posted by carl11777

You always see the th8 players complaining like that because th8 is where the skilled players sperate from the player who drops troops and hope for the best.

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Makes no sense. There's little to no skill involved in farming. All it requires is loads of free time (no-lifing) and minimum knowledge of the game.

There's no skill in TH8 farming TH7s neither there is any skill in TH9 farming TH8s. The ones that succeed are the ones that spend more time (maybe too much time) on the game.

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Originally Posted by Rahle

However I really can't see them trying to make us use more expensive armies (barch nerf) just to hand us back a ton of free loot.

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Loot is not the limiting factor (at least not in any mid-low leagues). Time is the limiting factor.

Even if half of the army cost is refunded, the entire army needs to be retrained. If anything it is better for SC, since players would be more likely to boost in order to reduce the re-train time.

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Originally Posted by Yoyobuae

If TH9 were skilled then they wouldn't need to farm TH8s on silver leagues. :smirk:

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The problem is that hitting a TH9 requires far more effort, time to train army and expenses from training that army. So why use gibarch and settle for 3/4 of a TH9, getting 240/240/2.5 when I can easily get 270/270/1.8 from a TH8 with only 1 spell?

Same as hitting a fellow TH10 for me, why do I need to suffer when hitting a TH10, using 5 spells and a war army, when my gibarch can completely destroy a maxed TH9 with 2-3 spells? There is no point nor incentive to hit a same TH unless you're farming with war armies. Even then, its better to next till I find a juicy TH9 rather than a TH10 because the chance of failure is nil when hitting a TH9 (no infernos)

Your definition of fun is vastly different from mine, my fun is progression, loot and wrecking adamant maxers who think maxing any TH other than TH10 is useful

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

The problem is that hitting a TH9 requires far more effort, time to train army and expenses from training that army. So why use gibarch and settle for 3/4 of a TH9, getting 240/240/2.5 when I can easily get 270/270/1.8 from a TH8 with only 1 spell?

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So if loot penalty for attacking TH8 was 20% then attacking TH8 and TH9 would be perfectly balanced. :D (except for DE but that's kinda expected).

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

Same as hitting a fellow TH10 for me, why do I need to suffer when hitting a TH10, using 5 spells and a war army, when my gibarch can completely destroy a maxed TH9 with 2-3 spells? There is no point nor incentive to hit a same TH unless you're farming with war armies.

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That's the thing: There should be more incentive. Wouldn't it be great that you could hit TH10s and get great loot doing so?

I'm not saying that loot should become worst/slower. Only that working harder should result in more loot, so that overall attacking with big armies or with quick cheap armies is roughly balanced.

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Originally Posted by Yoyobuae

Exactly.

So this post:

Makes no sense. There's little to no skill involved in farming. All it requires is loads of free time (no-lifing) and minimum knowledge of the game.

There's no skill in TH8 farming TH7s neither there is any skill in TH9 farming TH8s. The ones that succeed are the ones that spend more time (maybe too much time) on the game.

Loot is not the limiting factor (at least not in any mid-low leagues). Time is the limiting factor.

Even if half of the army cost is refunded, the entire army needs to be retrained. If anything it is better for SC, since players would be more likely to boost in order to reduce the re-train time.

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Well I disagree that it doesn't take skill to raid th8 and above storages. Obv I'm not talking about collector raids.
Personally I don't mind shelling out a few bucks to boost because that's how I choose to play. I want to be able to sit down and play it for an hour or two. I don't have time to be on it all day etc. I have to concentrate my time. Even on boost training time is a factor. I could train 7 to 8 war armies (gowiwipe is the most efficient ive found 2-2-16-2) or 20 gibarch armies in a boost session. Obviously I'm going to use the comp that makes me the most profit. Do u get what I'm saying? We might be saying the same thing...

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Originally Posted by targetweek

Well I disagree that it doesn't take skill to raid th8 and above storages. Obv I'm not talking about collector raids.

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Storage raids are a different story. Unless we are talking about attacking lower TH, in which case skill goes out the window again. :smirk:

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Originally Posted by targetweek

Personally I don't mind shelling out a few bucks to boost because that's how I choose to play. I want to be able to sit down and play it for an hour or two. I don't have time to be on it all day etc. I have to concentrate my time. Even on boost training time is a factor. I could train 7 to 8 war armies (gowiwipe is the most efficient ive found 2-2-16-2) or 20 gibarch armies in a boost session. Obviously I'm going to use the comp that makes me the most profit. Do u get what I'm saying? We might be saying the same thing...

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IMO both armies should result in similar profits. But that's far from current reality, so that's why I'm all for further incentives for using big armies in multiplayer raids.

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Originally Posted by Yoyobuae

So if loot penalty for attacking TH8 was 20% then attacking TH8 and TH9 would be perfectly balanced. :D (except for DE but that's kinda expected).

That's the thing: There should be more incentive. Wouldn't it be great that you could hit TH10s and get great loot doing so?

I'm not saying that loot should become worst/slower. Only that working harder should result in more loot, so that overall attacking with big armies and quick cheap armies is roughly balanced.

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Even if the loot is the same, I'd still choose to hit a TH8 because failure rates aren't as high for when I was new-mid TH9. Now that I have cultivated the skill to gibarch maxed TH9s, I could hit either as a TH9, but TH8 would yield better loot slightly because less spells used.

Though I'd like to agree with your idea, because I do think the disparity between light and heavy armies are too huge. However, hitting a TH10 is certainly never fun even when using good war armies because everything revolves around destroying both infernos quick enough so that I could destroy enough storages to have an earning. My current experience with hitting TH10s is that I'm lucky to even get half the storages and DE while it takes almost no trouble at all to get 75% loot from a TH9.

This idea can be good to balance the disparity between hitting TH8&9, but certainly not TH10. Even in master leagues, I next till I find snipes, collector raids , TH9s and TH10s who do not have infernos to hit. Infernos just make it ridiculous to target TH10s

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Originally Posted by Yoyobuae

The thing is that there's not enough incentive to attack at your own TH level. It takes more troops and doesn't provide that much more loot.

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"Not enough incentive"? Why should there be any incentive?

What is it that makes you think there needs to be an incentive to attack your own TH level?

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But that could be fixed by providing more incentives to players using expensive armies. For example a army cost % refund for higher leagues. Imagine what a 50% cost refund could do, spending 150k on an army, getting refunded 75k and getting looted resources and loot bonus on top of that. Big armies are good for pushing trophies as well, thus getting to the leagues where those bonuses apply.

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I don't think that would help very much.

For farmers (and even pushers to an extent), it is more about the time it takes to train a powerful army than about the cost.

And it is hard to refund time :)

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Originally Posted by charizzle

I've seen like 4 threads in the last 2 days about town hall 8s crying about how impossible it is to defend against a town hall 9.

Well duhhhh, that's how the game is supposed to be. Just like th7s are impossible to defend against a th8, and a th9 is impossible to defend against a th10. Its the same at every town hall level.

Not to mention they most likely do it to th7s, but if a th9 does it to them its going too far and we must stop.

I can't help but think what the whiners would want instead. Do they want matchmaking to only include your town hall level? Well that would make trophies worthless, it would make finding loot even harder, causing game progression to take even more time. Do they want a bigger loot penalty for 1 town hall lower? Well guess what it applys to your juicy th7s too.

I definitely feel justified in saying that th8s should stop whining. I was a town hall 8 as well, I rushed it severely (didn't know about the loot penalty back then) and I still recovered to be a solid th9. If I, a rushed th8, could survive the attacks from th9 and still progress, so can you.

If it bothers you that much upgrade to th9 now. No one is making you max your base. Just do it and then realize that its no picnic here in th9.

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As people, no one likes to get robbed and be powerless to prevent it. But what power they do have, is to complain. This will blow over. Everybody eventually finds a way accommodate to the amounts stolen by the bullies to grow their base and advance. They'll be maxed TH10s in no time!