If going to war with air and land troops, the most aggressive troopers would be dragons and hogs! I wander if there is a thread that cover this kind of topic or not.
If not then I'll be the first to experiment around and find some useful strategies.
Printable View
If going to war with air and land troops, the most aggressive troopers would be dragons and hogs! I wander if there is a thread that cover this kind of topic or not.
If not then I'll be the first to experiment around and find some useful strategies.
Drahogs can work on TH8 bases where there's an exposed AD you can easily hit with hogs, lightning another one, and send your dragons the remaining one. That said, by mixing dragons and hogs, you're taking all of the DPS from the ground and air defenses, thus meaning you get to deal with three giant bombs and two seeking air mines, as well as dps from the cannons/mortars AND air defenses.. So unless a small number of hogs can be used to take out an air defense you're far better off going with a land or air based attack as to bypass a large number of the defenses.
Note: I talked about TH8 because all you need at TH7 is dragons and dragons are awful at TH9+
We just faced a clan that did half dragons half hogs at th8. They had 1 successful 3 star...Some of their th9 also used this strat and all failed pretty bad... As mentioned above they will most likely face all only air traps, only ground traps etc. Cannons can't attack dragons, but they do get hogs, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler4
It's a terrible strategy, can work if planned correctly, but if you can plan that kind of attack, you are probably skilled enough to plan an all hog or dragon attack, better yet a goho at th8.
Yep exactly. My personal favorite attempt of this was on one of my clanmates that looks vulnerable to the south, the hogs cleared up to the cored air defenses as planned.. met all the giant bombs in the core and were turned to bacon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peija
Yup it can definitely work but only against poorly designed bases.
No, actually, it's an extremely effective strategy at TH8 and can work all the way up to max/near-max TH8s. If the base calls for it, I'll default to it just about every single time, as the attack is generally very simple to execute. I'm stunned to read comments to the contrary. The key is to identify what base to execute this attack on and one attribute is whether the ADs are within 2 hops of the outside of the base.
What's ignored in the responses above is that the hogs get to attack the AD without taking any damage from said ADs & this is very significant. Further, once the hogs get going, they often do significant work, making the dragons job far, far easier. Hogs, especially L4 hogs, at TH8, are very, very powerful, especially when under the effect of a heal spell.
In general, GBs don't cause me too much angst on such an attack, as I generally will send the hogs in with a heal. Since the attack doesn't often use a huge number of hogs, I often fear spring traps more than GBs.
Typical army compositions are 7 drags, 17 hogs (if all 3 ADs are snipable by hogs--JTJU covers this in his video about dragon snipe attacks), 8 drags, 13 hogs (typically used if one ADs are snipable by hogs--rage the 8 dragons into one AD--I use this attack often with my 2nd) and 9 drags, 9 hogs is also an option (not as commonly used, but can take advantage of it at times when one AD is snipable and you rage drags into two ADs).
I seldom would recommend a dragon snipe attack on a max TH8 using lightning though. I've taken down all ADs down with hogs and light, but the drags seem to run out of steam before clearing the base. I tend to frown on using lightning with a hog snipe attack anyways. I tend to think that if I can get an AD down using a single spell, like a heal, then why use lightning in the first place and use all 3 spells?
In any case, using lightning to down one buried AD and using drags/hogs to get the other two, can and does work very well against lower level TH8s though.
The issue is that all of the stronger TH8s have figured out how to defend their AD's from dragons, as their ADs will be surrounded by high HP storages causing pathing nightmares for the hogs, and if you're not bringing that many dragons they're that much more susceptible to seeking air mines. If you can snipe AD's, absolutely go for it, but on the vast majority of TH8 bases this strategy won't get you far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaticfringe
I do agree that I haven't seen a load of snipable bases lately, but the clans we're facing now are no lower than 4 (mostly 5 and 6), meaning (imho) they often build better bases. I'm willing to bet, however, the opportunity to drag-hog exists in a whole load of wars that go on with lower level clans. Also, I'm confused by the high hp structure comment---hog pathing doesn't have anything to do with high HP storages.Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler4
I'm also confused by the comment, "stronger TH8s"... You are now limiting the field, when I'm talking about all TH8s in war. There are quite a few bases are out there that this attack is perfect for.
My primary point is that the attack is exceptionally strong when the base allows for it and I'd go to that attack at TH8 over all others, as it is, in my mind, one of the easiest attacks to execute at TH8. I disagree that it's a, "terrible strategy" (this is a laughable comment) and that if you can plan for this attack, you can do a dragon attack (I don't even know what that means). Hogs and a heal often--make that way more often--do far more work than, say, loons in a rage.
There just aren't a whole lot of lower level clans left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaticfringe
As for hog pathing, if a defense is surrounded by high HP storages like ADs should, hogs will path to the defenses on the outside of the storages and never path to the AD.
My comment about "stronger TH8s" is because you can 3 star "weaker TH8s" with GOWIPE, hogs, dragons, GOWIVA, GOVALO, etc with ease. Why discuss weaker strategies which only work on weak bases, implying the strategy is weaker to begin with?
Agree with you on the power of hogs and a heal, but given that dragons are slow, target everything, have a terrible DPS/space ratio, and take all of the opposite traps that hogs do, I don't think they optimize with hogs well at all.. unless you're just using small numbers to snipe air defenses in bad bases (and thus retaining the advantages that mass dragons brings)
Huh? How can you say there aren't many lower level clans left? There are, literally, thousands....Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler4
i have no clue how you can make any correlation between high HP structures and hog pathing without seeing the base in question.
i never said drag hog only worked on lower level th8s. If the base calls for it, it will smoke it, including max Th8s and that's saying a lot, for it isn't easy to roll max th8 as a th8 yourself.
In general, I do agree that mixing ground troops with an air attack is ill advised. The monster exception being when you use ground troops to aid said air attack, which is exactly what this does.
all war at tacks are base dependent, meaning the attack you execute needs to be customize do to it. When all 3 ADs are within 2 hops of the edge, which isn't all that uncommon, this attack could very well have teeth and it's very, very easy to execute
Okay, fine, there are literally thousands of lower level clans left.. But they're low level because they don't war. Let's look at the levels of my clans previous opponents: 5 4 5 5 6 5 6 4 4 6 7 5 4 5 5 6 etc.. warring every two days the last time we faced a level 3 clan was 113 days ago. Why waste the breath talking about warring against opponents who don't war?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaticfringe
As for pathing, oh, i don't know, if the high hp non defenses are directly outside the air defenses, the hogs are obviously going to path around them because the buildings next to it aren't defenses, and since the other defenses are somewhere inside the base, they're certainly closer to the defense on the other side of the storage from the AD than the AD and will path around it.
My bigger point is that, sure, against bad bases this works. But the vast majority of wars are fought between clans that have significantly more war experience, and if the bases are so bad that this strategy works, a myriad of strategies will three star them.
Tyler, I seriously respect you. I can just tell that you have a lot of experience at TH8 attacks. We are 99% of the exact same opinion on hog runs, etc. But the argument you're making above is just a poor one.Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler4
Clans aren't necessarily low level because they don't war often, nor is it appropriate to imagine that this forum is solely for serious war type clan people. Some clans war for fun/occasionally, but others are clearly working their way up the ranks and warring quite often. There's nothing wrong with either of those...
I'm not going to get into the middle of what makes a good war base vs. not. The fact of the matter is that people will often run into bases where this attack works quite frequently. My clan started war, say, an hour ago. We're clan level 6 & only war with 10 to 15 people. Two clanmates have just executed two straight dragon snipe attacks and torched both bases in ~2 minutes. I'll record them and upload them if you doubt my veracity. There's one more base that might get the 'ole dragon snipe attack too. Hell, I can send you several from my main when he was TH8 and I can send you several from my 2nd, who's currently ~max TH8. Some of the most brutal TH8 attacks I've ever done have been dragon snipe attacks. I can recall one where I needed a single heal spell and I clear the base.
And please, don't counter with, "Oh, those bases suck." Maybe they do. According to many on this forum, 90%+ of all people who play CoC suck. My response to that is...who gives a ♥♥♥♥. The bottom line is that the matchmaking system is going to match you up with whomever and your job is torch the opponent, whether they suck or not and this attack is one that most people should learn how to do to take advantage of certain bases by these sucky players.
When it's there, it's a mindlessly easy attack, probably one of the strongest attacks there possibly can be for just how easy it is to execute.
Anyone who says that dragon-hogs is a horrible attack strategy at TH8, in all/substantially all situations, doesn't have any idea what on earth they are talking about.
I'll admit, I probably was a little harsh on it. I have definitely three starred snipeable bases before with a couple hogs, but always with at least 9 dragons so it feels more like a dragon attack than a straight hog. I'll typically drop my king to tank, then one hog (to test for traps), then my other 3, then my CC hogs and that AD is normally done for. Typically, I'll lightning AD number 2 and send my dragons at AD number 3, and boom, three stars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunaticfringe
That said, my biggest issue with this attack is how few bases are vulnerable to it. If I can find more that can fall to it I'll be ecstatic because I really don't have enough use for our excess dragon attacks that can't get any more 3 stars with a dragloon, but maybe if i think outside the box more we can make some of those attacks more useful? I'd love to see your videos for ideas.