EQ spell, Missing information or are we beeing tricked by SC?

Hi there! Thanks for taking the time to read this post.

Please keep in mind that this is not a post aimed at flaming SC, it is simply to try and get to the bottom of this EQ debate that is raging all over the forums.

In my examples I used lvl11 walls as the base for all the levels of the EQ spells, also assuming you drop 4 EQ spells. We know we need 4 EQ spells on any lvl wall, no matter the wall or spell lvl. So this made me thinking, and I went and calculated all the stuff.

You will also see a RED percentage at the end of each calculation. This is the percentage of HP left if the wall does not collapse (So the point at which the wall collapses will be a bit higher)

7,000 HP vs lvl1 EQ spell (6*4=24%)

• 24% dmg of 7,000 HP = 1,680 dmg = 5,320 HP left (76% of original HP)
• 24% dmg of 5,320 HP = 1,276.8 dmg = 4,043.2 HP left (57.76% of original HP)
• 24% dmg of 4043.2 HP = 970.368 dmg = 3,072.832 HP left (43.8976% of original HP)
• 24% dmg of 3,072.832 HP = 737.47968 dmg = 2,335.35232 HP left (33.362176% of original HP)

7,000 HP vs lvl2 EQ spell (8*4=32%)

• 32% dmg of 7,000 HP = 2,240 dmg = 4,760 HP left (68% of original HP)
• 32% dmg of 4,760 HP = 1,523.2 dmg = 3,236.8 HP left (46.24% of original HP)
• 32% dmg of 3,236.8 HP = 1,035.776 dmg = 2,201.024 HP left (31.4432% of original HP)
• 32% dmg of 2,201.024 HP = 704.32768 dmg = 1,496.69632 HP left (21.381376% of original HP)

7,000 HP vs lvl3 EQ spell (10*4=40%)

• 40% dmg of 7,000 HP = 2,800 dmg = 4,200 HP left (60% of original HP)
• 40% dmg of 4,200 HP = 1,680 dmg = 2,520 HP left (36% of original HP)
• 40% dmg of 2,520 HP = 1,008 dmg = 1,512 HP left (21.6% of original HP)
• 40% dmg of 1,512 HP = 604.8 dmg = 907.2 HP left (12.96% of original HP)

7,000 HP vs lvl4 EQ spell (12*4%=48%)

• 48% dmg of 7,000 HP = 3,360 dmg = 3,640 HP left (52% of original HP)
• 48% dmg of 3,640 HP = 1,747.2 dmg = 1,892.8 HP left (27.04% of original HP)
• 48% dmg of 1,892.8 HP = 908.554 dmg = 984.246 HP left (14.06065714285714% of original HP)
• 48% dmg of 984.246 HP = 472.43808 dmg = 511.80792 HP left (7.311541714285714% of original HP)

As you can see, the "collapse" percentage varies for each spell lvl. Let me explain this statement:
If we look at the lvl1 EQ collapse %, it is 33%. This means that only 3 lvl2 EQ are required, 3 lvl3 EQ, and 2 lvl4 EQ. We know that that is not true since we need 4 EQ (Any lvl) to take out any wall (This is proven as there has been many such experiments)

I believe the collapse % is different for each spell, but that won't make any sense...as it would then be completely useless to upgrade EQ if the collapse limit changes.

As a conclusion,

• Either SC did not reveal all the data on the spell. (Maybe a missing variable)
• Either we, as players, are over looking something critical.
• Either the spell does have different collapse limits on each lvl, which will then need fixing.

Please give me your thoughts on this, because I am very confused at the moment :confused:

Hmm, after looking at this I it seems like everything you said is right and makes sense, now I'm wondering the same thing, I think either your math went wrong, over looking something or, SC is hiding something.

Each quake has 3 pulses (or is it 4?). Most likely each pulse does a fixed percentage of damage - 2% for a lvl 1 spell and 4% for lvl 4, and the 6, 8, 10, 12% indicated are not completely accurate.

I believe I saw in one of the first videos about it that when using 4 lvl 1 earthquakes, the last pulse will collapse the walls, while for lvl 4 quakes it will be the 2nd before last.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rubra

Each quake has 3 pulses (or is it 4?). Most likely each pulse does a fixed percentage of damage - 2% for a lvl 1 spell and 4% for lvl 4, and the 6, 8, 10, 12% indicated are not completely accurate.

I believe I saw in one of the first videos about it that when using 4 lvl 1 earthquakes, the last pulse will collapse the walls, while for lvl 4 quakes it will be the 2nd before last.

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Watched some EQ spell vids in x1/4 speed, there is 3 pulses in an EQ . Let's say we have a lvl4 EQ spell, that is 4% with each pulse, and x4 makes it 16% per pulse.

7,000 HP vs Lvl4 Quake (Only counting 1 spell drop)

• 16% of 7,000 HP = 1,120 dmg = 5,880 HP left
• 16% of 5,880 HP = 940.8 dmg = 4,939.2 HP left
• 16% of 4,969.2 HP = 790.27 dmg = 4,178.93 HP left

Taking this value and comparing it to the value I found by taking the percentage as a whole:

4,178.93 HP left (New value with pulses) 3,360 HP left (Old value without pulses)

You might be on to something actually, I will revise my old post...and post an update soon.

Thx for bringing it up!:thumbsup:

Those figures in the info box are just approximations and the real math is more complex (we would have to talk about "spell ticks, damage factors being applied as a square, and different guaranteed-minimum damage factors for both walls and buildings") -> but, the %-damage is skewed to deal more %-damage when the remaining building HP is high, and less %-damage when the remaining building HP is low in order to make the effect of a single Earthquake spell more significant, end of quote from our programmer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anoushka[Supercell]

Those figures in the info box are just approximations and the real math is more complex (we would have to talk about "spell ticks, damage factors being applied as a square, and different guaranteed-minimum damage factors for both walls and buildings") -> but, the %-damage is skewed to deal more %-damage when the remaining building HP is high, and less %-damage when the remaining building HP is low in order to make the effect of a single Earthquake spell more significant, end of quote from our programmer.

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FINALLY, an answer from Supercell about the mysterious Earthquake Spell :heart:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anoushka[Supercell]

Those figures in the info box are just approximations and the real math is more complex (we would have to talk about "spell ticks, damage factors being applied as a square, and different guaranteed-minimum damage factors for both walls and buildings") -> but, the %-damage is skewed to deal more %-damage when the remaining building HP is high, and less %-damage when the remaining building HP is low in order to make the effect of a single Earthquake spell more significant, end of quote from our programmer.

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Wow, that is interesting !! Thanks for sharing Annoushka :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anoushka[Supercell]

Those figures in the info box are just approximations and the real math is more complex (we would have to talk about "spell ticks, damage factors being applied as a square, and different guaranteed-minimum damage factors for both walls and buildings") -> but, the %-damage is skewed to deal more %-damage when the remaining building HP is high, and less %-damage when the remaining building HP is low in order to make the effect of a single Earthquake spell more significant, end of quote from our programmer.

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Ah now that makes way more sense!!! very interisiting, would love to see the formulae for it though. Makes sense that it is skewed, otherwise we will need a ton of EQ spells to bring it under the "collapse" limit.

Anoushka can you please sticky it somewhere, I am tired of seeing all this" EQ maths is way off" posts.
:thumbsup:

Still doesn't really make any sense. Almost everyone uses them in sets of 4 to completely blow up a section of walls. Currently you are punished for having a high level earthquake spell. I don't see why its ultimate effectiveness doesn't scale with the spell level.

Its already a little silly that it doesn't take the level of the wall into account when doing damage. Its akin to wallbreakers blowing up any level wall with x number of wallbreakers regardless of wallbreaker level. It just doesn't make sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mctrials23

Still doesn't really make any sense. Almost everyone uses them in sets of 4 to completely blow up a section of walls. Currently you are punished for having a high level earthquake spell. I don't see why its ultimate effectiveness doesn't scale with the spell level.

Its already a little silly that it doesn't take the level of the wall into account when doing damage. Its akin to wallbreakers blowing up any level wall with x number of wallbreakers regardless of wallbreaker level. It just doesn't make sense.

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Anoushka's comment made more sense...but yea, I agree. Still very much useless to upgrade EQ, I will do it as the last thing in CoC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by F34R991

Anoushka's comment made more sense...but yea, I agree. Still very much useless to upgrade EQ, I will do it as the last thing in CoC

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Her comments explain what is happening to a certain degree but that doesn't explain their decision making process or why it works as it does. Why bother to give a spell different levels when you penalise the amount of damage it does as the damage increases. Why allow the base level spell to destroy max level walls as easily as lvl1 and why allow the lvl1 version to be as effective as lvl4?

It seems like they have created a complex algorithm to govern the effects of the spells even though the effectiveness of it is very basic. Its like a rube goldberg machine in the game. At a basic level its "drop 4 of these on a wall to explode it". If there was another worthwhile use for this spell then I could understand it. If there was a difference between using lvl4 earthquake and lvl1 or a difference depending on the wall level it hits I could understand the complexity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mctrials23

Her comments explain what is happening to a certain degree but that doesn't explain their decision making process or why it works as it does. Why bother to give a spell different levels when you penalise the amount of damage it does as the damage increases. Why allow the base level spell to destroy max level walls as easily as lvl1 and why allow the lvl1 version to be as effective as lvl4?

It seems like they have created a complex algorithm to govern the effects of the spells even though the effectiveness of it is very basic. Its like a rube goldberg machine in the game. At a basic level its "drop 4 of these on a wall to explode it". If there was another worthwhile use for this spell then I could understand it. If there was a difference between using lvl4 earthquake and lvl1 or a difference depending on the wall level it hits I could understand the complexity.

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I am sure there is a reason, I would like it if the dev of the EQ will post something explain what is happening, it confuses a lot of people

I went into detail here:
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...atistics/page2

But, the OP is right, there is either a bug or the "threshold destruction %" goes down as the spell levels up (ie Earthquake gets worse in that respect as it levels).

The 2 easiest ways to see it:
1) Do all the calculations you want, 2 max EQ spells leave a wall with LESS HP than 3 lvl1 EQ spells. But, the next max EQ spell will not destroy a wall, the next lvl 1 EQ will!
2) Right now:
-if you hit a lvl 9 wall with a lvl 6 wallbreaker and then cast lvl 1 EQ, it is destroyed
-if you hit a lvl 9 wall with a lvl 6 wallbreaker and then cast lvl 4 EQ, it is not destroyed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bactgudz

I went into detail here:
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...atistics/page2

But, the OP is right, there is either a bug or the "threshold destruction %" goes down as the spell levels up (ie Earthquake gets worse in that respect as it levels).

The 2 easiest ways to see it:
1) Do all the calculations you want, 2 max EQ spells leave a wall with LESS HP than 3 lvl1 EQ spells. But, the next max EQ spell will not destroy a wall, the next lvl 1 EQ will!
2) Right now:
-if you hit a lvl 9 wall with a lvl 6 wallbreaker and then cast lvl 1 EQ, it is destroyed
-if you hit a lvl 9 wall with a lvl 6 wallbreaker and then cast lvl 4 EQ, it is not destroyed

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I also thought that the % margin to knock won a wall is decreased as the spell lvls. Seems like a lvl 1 spell is better than lvl 4 hahaha. We will have to see, I am pretty sure SC will have to do something about this

Yes the calculation is too complex to fit in the spell info box. Coc has never been overloaded with numbers. If you want to know the exact data, check the wiki.

And I agree the only use that makes sense is blowing away walls with 4 of them. I think the level of walls and the spell should matter for example lvl1 destroys lvl6 walls with 3 spells, lvl7 with 4 and lvl8 with 5. lvl2 earthquake spell can destroy one higher level. There should be an advantage of higher walls in war. On the other hand the weight of walls in cw matchmaing could be increased even more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bactgudz

I went into detail here:
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...atistics/page2

But, the OP is right, there is either a bug or the "threshold destruction %" goes down as the spell levels up (ie Earthquake gets worse in that respect as it levels).

The 2 easiest ways to see it:
1) Do all the calculations you want, 2 max EQ spells leave a wall with LESS HP than 3 lvl1 EQ spells. But, the next max EQ spell will not destroy a wall, the next lvl 1 EQ will!
2) Right now:
-if you hit a lvl 9 wall with a lvl 6 wallbreaker and then cast lvl 1 EQ, it is destroyed
-if you hit a lvl 9 wall with a lvl 6 wallbreaker and then cast lvl 4 EQ, it is not destroyed

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This is crazy and needs to be fixed. Not surprised Supercell screwed this up though. How about a DE credit for those of us dumb enough to believe increasing your spell level was beneficial? Happy to give back the 3 levels for a credit on my DE spent so I can spend it on a spell that actually improves following an upgrade!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bactgudz

I went into detail here:
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...atistics/page2

But, the OP is right, there is either a bug or the "threshold destruction %" goes down as the spell levels up (ie Earthquake gets worse in that respect as it levels).

The 2 easiest ways to see it:
1) Do all the calculations you want, 2 max EQ spells leave a wall with LESS HP than 3 lvl1 EQ spells. But, the next max EQ spell will not destroy a wall, the next lvl 1 EQ will!
2) Right now:
-if you hit a lvl 9 wall with a lvl 6 wallbreaker and then cast lvl 1 EQ, it is destroyed
-if you hit a lvl 9 wall with a lvl 6 wallbreaker and then cast lvl 4 EQ, it is not destroyed

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what?
Ouch, my brain

I need to look more about his spell

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bactgudz

I went into detail here:
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...atistics/page2

But, the OP is right, there is either a bug or the "threshold destruction %" goes down as the spell levels up (ie Earthquake gets worse in that respect as it levels).

The 2 easiest ways to see it:
1) Do all the calculations you want, 2 max EQ spells leave a wall with LESS HP than 3 lvl1 EQ spells. But, the next max EQ spell will not destroy a wall, the next lvl 1 EQ will!
2) Right now:
-if you hit a lvl 9 wall with a lvl 6 wallbreaker and then cast lvl 1 EQ, it is destroyed
-if you hit a lvl 9 wall with a lvl 6 wallbreaker and then cast lvl 4 EQ, it is not destroyed

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1) is wrong because the calculations you use aren't correct, the correct calculations are more complex, like Anoushka said. 3 lvl 1 EQ spells do more damage than 2 max EQ spells, there is empirical proof of this.
2) Have you proof of this statement? Link me a video, please :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anoushka[Supercell]

Those figures in the info box are just approximations and the real math is more complex (we would have to talk about "spell ticks, damage factors being applied as a square, and different guaranteed-minimum damage factors for both walls and buildings") -> but, the %-damage is skewed to deal more %-damage when the remaining building HP is high, and less %-damage when the remaining building HP is low in order to make the effect of a single Earthquake spell more significant, end of quote from our programmer.

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Aha!!! So there is a guaranteed minimum damage.

It's what I've been saying for a while now:

• Any level EQ spell does at least 20% of max HP against walls
• Any level EQ spell does at least 4.5% of max HP agains normal buildings

The guaranteed minimum damage is the same regardless of EQ spell level.

So regardless of level, 3 EQ spells do at least 60% guaranteed minimum damage against walls and from my experimentation 67% damage is required so that the last spell knocks down the wall.

That means 3 level 1 EQ do at least 67% against walls (so that 4 level 1 EQ knocks it down). And also that 2 level 4 EQ do less than 67% damage (so that 3 level 4 EQ does not knock down walls).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bactgudz

I went into detail here:
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...atistics/page2

But, the OP is right, there is either a bug or the "threshold destruction %" goes down as the spell levels up (ie Earthquake gets worse in that respect as it levels).

The 2 easiest ways to see it:
1) Do all the calculations you want, 2 max EQ spells leave a wall with LESS HP than 3 lvl1 EQ spells. But, the next max EQ spell will not destroy a wall, the next lvl 1 EQ will!
2) Right now:
-if you hit a lvl 9 wall with a lvl 6 wallbreaker and then cast lvl 1 EQ, it is destroyed
-if you hit a lvl 9 wall with a lvl 6 wallbreaker and then cast lvl 4 EQ, it is not destroyed

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Are u serious? If so, there must be a bug.