Rushed Town Halls and War Matches

people will have their choice in how they play the game...

I rushed my town hall too since I was very excited to get the queen...I even have th5 lvl cannons before while having legowalls and everyone, specially the maxers were commenting how'd they crush my base...

anyway, to make it simple...everyone plays the game on how they chose it...

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Originally Posted by 716Wizard

Rushed Town Halls can really mess up a war match. Why not set some limitations to when you can upgrade a TH? For example, if you're TH9 you can't upgrade wizard towers to level 8 until you're TH10. Why not reverse that and say you cannot upgrade your Town Hall until you reach a certain number/level of defenses?

This idea was discussed in our clan chat after our most recent war match. If you look at clan tag #882VYYG2, checkout the player profile #JQ2UGCCO. This player was ranked lowest in the war match, but he was a TH10 with inferno towers and maxed troops. His other defenses were extremely low or not built, keeping his ranking extremely low. This player was matched against a low level TH8 in our clan.

Those that have rushed Towns Halls will not like a change like this, of that I'm almost certain. But I think setting peramiters around when you can upgrade a Town Hall will be extremely beneficial in the long run, especially for the serious players that get frustrated with uneven war matches.

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as my title says... :)

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Originally Posted by PvtLeeOwned

No regulations are needed. The game itself tries to be balanced and players will always try to gain advantage the best they can. Why not force people to build x-bows the moment they hit TH9 so they can't employ the TH8.5 strategy? A rushed TH10 gains an attack advantage, but gives up all three stars to someone on the other team. Quite frankly it's very rare that someone is a rushed TH10 who doesn't have inferno towers which would make it extremely unlikely that they match to a TH8 due to the weighting of defensive scores.

Clans should have an attack strategy that allows for dealing with impossible match-ups. It's far more common to see an impossible matchup when the breakpoint from TH8 to TH7 is different between the warring clans.

By by far the biggest problems are caused by the players your own team selects to participate in war. Someone with strong TH10 defenses and only TH8 equivilent attack ability messes things up for everyone, not just themselves.

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The simple fact of the matter is that unfair matches do happen, more often than not. And while I used that one example of the TH10 being paired with our TH8, I'll admit that that probably doesn't happen very often. What I do see more often is TH9's being matched up against TH10 (which is much more difficult than a TH8 going against a TH9). When a TH9 has to face a rushed TH10, the TH9 is not able to have a freeze spell, making a 3 star almost impossible because of inferno towers even with maxed TH9 troops.

My clan only has a about 7 TH8's, about 15 TH9's (6 of which are almost maxed defense), and 5 TH10's. The top ranking TH9's are very often paired with rushed TH10's. Our war strategy is to attack equal first, second is clean up. We may be able to change it up for unfair matches, but not when too many TH9's are going against TH10's. Doing this screws up any attacking chance for our lower level bases.

So while I can appreciate everyone's feedback on this post, I still think that the match system is broken. I've looked at it from so many angles, and the only way I can come up with to fix it is regulating when people can upgrade their TH.

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Originally Posted by 716Wizard

The simple fact of the matter is that unfair matches do happen, more often than not. And while I used that one example of the TH10 being paired with our TH8, I'll admit that that probably doesn't happen very often. What I do see more often is TH9's being matched up against TH10 (which is much more difficult than a TH8 going against a TH9). When a TH9 has to face a rushed TH10, the TH9 is not able to have a freeze spell, making a 3 star almost impossible because of inferno towers even with maxed TH9 troops.

My clan only has a about 7 TH8's, about 15 TH9's (6 of which are almost maxed defense), and 5 TH10's. The top ranking TH9's are very often paired with rushed TH10's. Our war strategy is to attack equal first, second is clean up. We may be able to change it up for unfair matches, but not when too many TH9's are going against TH10's. Doing this screws up any attacking chance for our lower level bases.

So while I can appreciate everyone's feedback on this post, I still think that the match system is broken. I've looked at it from so many angles, and the only way I can come up with to fix it is regulating when people can upgrade their TH.

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The match making system is broken in clan wars because nobody wants to wait hours to find a clan to war against. When you start clan war search, it searches for an equal sized clan with roughly the same strength as your clan. This has nothing to do with town hall levels. It also isn't going to search for a long time. I think 15 minutes is the average?

Yes, it will be hard for TH9s to 3-star TH10s. Make sure your super lower guys are getting 3-stars and you should be able to win.

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Originally Posted by sungirl

The match making system is broken in clan wars because nobody wants to wait hours to find a clan to war against. When you start clan war search, it searches for an equal sized clan with roughly the same strength as your clan. This has nothing to do with town hall levels. It also isn't going to search for a long time. I think 15 minutes is the average?

Yes, it will be hard for TH9s to 3-star TH10s. Make sure your super lower guys are getting 3-stars and you should be able to win.

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I've had a search go as long as 45 minutes...it goes until it finds one. If it can't find one, the search expands on options. It could go in your favor, just as easily as it can go against you when that happens.

This is a very interesting question, certainly.

In my clan, we have two sorts of rushed bases. One sort belongs to kids with parents who give them money to buy gems to upgrade in an unbalanced way. Typically they have King and Queen, nearly all troop types, and nearly nothing very far upgraded. Universally, they also have very poor attacking skill, and I don't let them in wars.

Also are second accounts by experienced, adult, high level players. These accounts are used for fun, or also for high level troop donations. They will have selected troops far or completely upgraded, other troops neglected, and very underdeveloped buildings, defences and walls.

These two types of rushed bases are probably assessed very similarly by the COC algorithms, which works well for defensive ranking, but the two cases perform very very differently in attacks. One is incompetent, the other skilled.


I believe, but don't know for sure, and would love to know, that war ranking mostly takes into account the number and levels of buildings and walls. It seems to not take into account offensive capability in clan ranking, but does it take it into account for matching? I am pretty sure that skill (or its proxy, past win records) is not included.

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Originally Posted by 716Wizard

Actually, someone named Hammerbow posted in this thread...he had a good idea/solution to that. He said the game should set a level requirement in order to be war eligible.

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But the point of your thread is that you're saying rushed bases have an advantage in war matchups.

Level restrictions would do nothing to stop this, because levels can be gained from things besides structure upgrades. Donations, goblin maps, achievements, etc.

For example, if someone wanted to exploit this system, they could simply join a donation clan for a period of time or go donation hopping until they reached the level required to be eligible for war.

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Originally Posted by badfish1979

But the point of your thread is that you're saying rushed bases have an advantage in war matchups.

Level restrictions would do nothing to stop this, because levels can be gained from things besides structure upgrades. Donations, goblin maps, achievements, etc.

For example, if someone wanted to exploit this system, they could simply join a donation clan for a period of time or go donation hopping until they reached the level required to be eligible for war.

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What im saying is that rushed TH's mess up war matches, regardless of who the match is favored towards. As for Hammerbows post about level restrictions, maybe Supercell should reevaluate what we get XP for. For example, we receive no XP for wall upgrades, yet it's a structure upgrade in my eyes so we should. I don't see the point in getting XP for troop donations, especially since war castle donations do not count for troops donated. That system alone is messed up.
But either way, the amount of people that would actually exploit the system by joining a donation clan just to rush a town hall would probably be minimal. There will always be some people that try to game the system, but I think putting some sort of regulations around when you can upgrade the TH will minimize the amount of rushed bases out there. And as a result, more accurate war matches will be found.

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Originally Posted by 716Wizard

Gem buyers are definitely a consideration, but that's not why I want the change. I just want a better playing experience. When my clan is evenly matched, the war is fun. Clan members are excited to play, even if we lose after a close call. But when we are out ranked by a ton because of an uneven match, it's bad because we knew we never stood a chance from the beginning. But I feel the same about a reversed situation - if we are paired up against a lower level clan, we get the win, but it isn't exciting. Everyone just goes through the routine motions of getting attacks done for the loot.

I know that not everyone will be happy, as people will complain about anything given the opportunity. But it seems to be the simplest solution to the problem, because rushed TH's are the biggest reason for bad war matches.

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^^^
I hear ya.

In a mixed clan with lots of rushers, we lose more than we win, which is to be expected.

BUT how is it, that with...

3 maxed bases for their town hall levels, 3 moderately strong ones (th9-10 with a mix of th8-10 defenses but still tend to take a few attacks to three-star, if the opponents aren't pros, haha), 5 nonrushed but new, and the rest very weak and playing catchup....

in a 20v20 or 25v25 war, our level 3 clan is consistently matched with a level four/five clan of all non-rushers with difficult bases? Our clan has 31 war wins and was most recently matched with a clan that has 81 war wins. They had an almost perfect war, and it was the first time we got less than the 60% of available stars. So even WITH the new xp, and eventual perks, ppl don't want to waste resources for two huge armies when they know going in, that they haven't got a chance.

For us, one in the last ten wars was a clan one level below us, one was the same level, and 8 were higher than us. This isn't the "average" 25% easy, 50% even, 25% too hard matchups that I've heard ppl. talk about as being their experience.

In multiplayer, at least I have the option to "next" when my new th9 with level five troops runs into a maxed 9-10 base farming in my league. Why not for clans? Why not use this new clan level in matchmaking, instead of primarily th? Because clearly, our defenses and troops don't measure up. In terms of numbers of each town hall, they did. (In this case, too, the total clan "points" Supercell calculated said we weren't far behind. HAHAhaha...right.) I don't get it.

***Not every th10 has to play in Champs/Titans. Should be similar for clans-can't there be two or three "leagues" for wars, too? Some for more competitive matchups, some for more fun/recreational ones? (The only ones I can see who might object are those clans who do enjoy steamrolling weak ones to add another easy win to their record.)

COC buisness model revolves around purchasing gems to help upgrade and gain resources. The reason this won't be changed is because it would hurt supercells profits. They rely on users to be impatience and purchase gems to complete upgrades m