Weighting Mystery Revealed!!!

Hey there good people, today is indeed an awesome day! And with help of a friend, I've finally gotten all the weights for every single building, troop, spell, and even heroes! Check out the video bellow for more information's. I'll also include spreadsheet once I'm done formatting it nicely. Disclaimer: Only thing I'm not sure about is wall weighting, still trying to figure that one out. Might be off at something, and I might be correct on everything. Don't take this information's as correct until someone from above confirms it, which I'm sure won't happen :). If you found it useful, great, if you didn't too bad. Thanks for taking time to check it out.



Link to the spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZH5n1D4yFF1KGrtnWC46P8UwKJKXW3r4z33TV1qFQ6U/edit#gid=538532539


Updated Base Weight Calculator:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Link to the weight calculator:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Props to FS from Sidduqi's for making this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_k8cVY3WAI

sweet, useful info

So lv 7 walls+2 inferno tower+1 xbow= lv10 walls ?

nice, awaiting when the document link is posted

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Originally Posted by CHIMICHANGATIME

nice, awaiting when the document link is posted

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Agreed, sorry I've just rushed sharing it cause I was just so excited :) I`m working on formatting the spreadsheet as we speak.

Moskri =illuminati :confused:
that is the question:D

great! 10 chars

Peer review required!!!!!!! >_>

But it in all seriousness, Sweeeeeet!!

Yeah, I'm working hard on adding all the weights together with a friend so I can put a detailed spreadsheet out for you guys. I think I'm a bit off for walls, since in my original calculation I think i skipped few things. But in general, all the single object weights are correct. Beside walls, trying to figure out that part. Sorry for inconvenience.

This information isn't client side is it? So where did this file you stumbled upon come from? If the file only exists on the supercell server it must mean you were stumbling around server side. I am not here to snitch I am just curious of the validity and how validity is even possible.

thats an interesting weighting system, where did you find it? nice.

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Originally Posted by Moskri

Yeah, I'm working hard on adding all the weights together with a friend so I can put a detailed spreadsheet out for you guys. I think I'm a bit off for walls, since in my original calculation I think i skipped few things. But in general, all the single object weights are correct. Beside walls, trying to figure out that part. Sorry for inconvenience.

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When I get home tonight I'll go over the video and your numbers :) I love me some math!

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Originally Posted by 3lorian

When I get home tonight I'll go over the video and your numbers :) I love me some math!

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me too, love working with numbers and statistics

wow man nice work. Much appreciated.

even a quick glance shows this isn't particularly close to actual values.

I'm a bit puzzled by the inclusion of troops and spells in this. I thought that the position in the war list and the bonus on a base was dependent on the defensive strength only? And the offensive strength (troops and spells) although counting towards the match, did not count to towards the displayed bonus (but is used to decide the recommended target)
My mini account is a war engineered account with TH8 defence and TH10 offence. I'm fairly sure that none of the TH10 offence upgrades changed its displayed bonus at all; whereas a few hero upgrades, and walls used as a loot sink have since moved it up one notch.

Or has it been proven that the troops and spells do count towards the displayed bonus?

For the defenses you may have made some mistakes. It shows xbows all count for same weight regardless of lvl. Or is that just the amount of weight added on at each lvl?

Also where'd you get these calculations?

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Originally Posted by Moskri

Same weight at each level. Got them from a friend who found them in some folder on his phone. ^^

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Why would they stay the same weight at each lvl?

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Originally Posted by BlargityTucker

Why would they stay the same weight at each lvl?

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who cares m8

awesome work moskri :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Traps are not listed on your spreadsheet.

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Originally Posted by JtB

Traps are not listed on your spreadsheet.

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Yeah some weights are incorrect in the video, that's why I've linked spreadsheet I'm constantly working on. :)

Link to the spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=538532539

Okay looks like some people started using this theory, and they got pretty close and at this point I think it's jsut cause of rounding or something we missed. But all in all this should all be correct.

http://i.imgur.com/01rHXgm.jpg

this is sweet! thank you for posting moskri!

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

I'm a bit puzzled by the inclusion of troops and spells in this. I thought that the position in the war list and the bonus on a base was dependent on the defensive strength only? And the offensive strength (troops and spells) although counting towards the match, did not count to towards the displayed bonus (but is used to decide the recommended target)
My mini account is a war engineered account with TH8 defence and TH10 offence. I'm fairly sure that none of the TH10 offence upgrades changed its displayed bonus at all; whereas a few hero upgrades, and walls used as a loot sink have since moved it up one notch.

Or has it been proven that the troops and spells do count towards the displayed bonus?

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This is what I thought too. Also, AD (320 each) and Teslas (800 each) seem to be underweighted while mortar (3720 each) seem to be overweighted for clan war purposes; And for offence capability, golem (600) and hound (360) seem to be underweighted while archer (1050) and witch (2100) seem to be overweighted.

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Originally Posted by Foreigner

This is what I thought too. Also, AD (320 each) and Teslas (800 each) seem to be underweighted while mortar (3720 each) seem to be overweighted for clan war purposes; And for offence capability, golem (600) and hound (360) seem to be underweighted while archer (1050) and witch (2100) seem to be overweighted.

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Agreed, although for some reason I think these weights are correct for some reason. Few guys already did calculations on their bases and they were correct. So if we all took time to calculate our own bases, we can confirm it then. ^^

I'll do the top 5 for us. It would also be helpful to do the top opponents bases and compare weight to loot value

Who exactly is this friend and where did he get the file from?

Why did you assume it is defensive weight only in the file and include offense when looning at total defense weighting?

And I can confirm offense doesnt count according to those weights. The troop levels I am missing are in excess of 2k yet I am weighted 99k.

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Originally Posted by Gama321

Who exactly is this friend and where did he get the file from?

Why did you assume it is defensive weight only in the file and include offense when looning at total defense weighting?

And I can confirm offense doesnt count according to those weights. The troop levels I am missing are in excess of 2k yet I am weighted 99k.

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I didn't assume anything, those are all weights that are written in there.

to the 3rd part, I think you're wrong. I had 4 guys reporting they got it right. So it's either your math flawing a bit or something. Also use the currently updated spreadsheet since in the initial one I've forgot to add few things, so corrected them accordingly. Also check your pm's.

Somebody happen to know what the exact weight of a completely max TH9 is?

Update:

Few guys are working on making a calculator where you would simply add your weight and viola. Stay tuned :)

that +200 weight for each wall upgrade better not be true

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Originally Posted by Moskri

I didn't assume anything, those are all weights that are written in there.

to the 3rd part, I think you're wrong. I had vuys reporting they got it right. So it's either your math flawing a bit or something. Also use the currently updated spreadsheet since in the initial one I've forgot to add few things, so corrected them accordingly. Also check your pm's.

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By adding offense simply because they are written in the spread sheet you are assuming they count and are assuming the spread sheet gives total defense weight and total defense weight only. Gimme a sec and I will upload a link to my warclans profile, and you can see for yourself that offense doesnt count. Traps are also overstated, I have been levelling up my small bombs only recently and have been at 99k for ages. Since I am at an extreme weighting it is a lot easier to see if it is wrong or not. I had a total of 3260 missing from offense (this includes lvl3 hounds and freeze which I did afterwards but even taking this away it is still over 2k) and according to the weightings i have around 1k of defence and traps left.

Also in the latest update we were told skel traps are weighted more and you are honestly trying to tell me it is still less than a lvl1 small bomb even when maxed?

The source is also unreliable since it is unclear what those numbers actually are.

The numbers may be roughly equal however, but being near-maxed I obviously cannot see that. But there are clearly many contradictions in it, the weighting of small bombs, the fact that levelling up freeze would give you a higher increase than no spell factory at all, the weightings of air sweeper, the weighting of inferno towers (you yourself told me two lvl1 infernos equal 7k before)

http://www.warclans.com/coc-player/J5VVNXX54

@Gama, no clue man worked for me.

Calculator is done btw, just download it and check it out for yourself.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

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Originally Posted by Moskri

@Gama, no clue man worked for me.

Calculator is done btw, just download it and check it out for yourself.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

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Interesting. Is this assumed to be used by clan war matching system, or just the weighting system for order in which clan members are going to be positioned on war map?

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Originally Posted by cjRandom

Interesting. Is this assumed to be used by clan war matching system, or just the weighting system for order in which clan members are going to be positioned on war map?

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Very cool, just verified this with me. Put all my troop, spell, hero, wall, and defense levels, got 73k+change, and my war weight last war was 73k (18.25k per gold storage).

Base is a near-maxed Th9 with 28 lego walls to go only.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moskri

@Gama, no clue man worked for me.

Calculator is done btw, just download it and check it out for yourself.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

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I don't see how to download. Thanks for this Moskri, its a huge help!

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Originally Posted by Moskri

@Gama, no clue man worked for me.

Calculator is done btw, just download it and check it out for yourself.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

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Thank you for the effort, but nothing is revealed. The numbers are wrong. And in the calculator -> raw data you repeat healers 2x (120-124)

If it is I who made a mistake in my math, please do calculate my base and tell me what you get.

http://i.imgur.com/Te98AHw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/io3Ko3H.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/u3KdOe9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HjhXJm2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Jordan1120

I don't see how to download. Thanks for this Moskri, its a huge help!

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Use this url to download:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=538532539

Our secret recipe is being revealed...damn it!
Actually the xbow is a bit too high. We changed it since to be a bit lower.

For my mid-level TH9 base, the number gotten with the calculator was 61,343, value from replay of yesterday's war was 61,000. That looks good.

However, I then did the guy just above me, who has x-bows (I don't) and otherwise is my level or below with only 1 or 2 exceptions, and I got a weight around 55,000, though his offer was also 61,000. It would appear that the x-bow weights aren't quite high enough to provide the empirical results I see each war — my base is equal to or stronger in just about every category to the TH9 bases above me, except I have no x-bows and they do. Will run the numbers again for the war starting shortly and see if it gets better.

How do I input the numbers so they automatically change in the spreadsheet please explain.

I do hope these numbers are wrong, because as far as I can see it is saying that:
- air def level weighting is so low it is basically ignored. Likewise seeking air mines.
- the only TH8 items which really matter with a big weighting are: wiz tower and mortar and SMALL bomb.
- A level 2 AQ is worth twice as much as a level 1 AQ
- Archer level is more important than lava, golem, loon, hog

Really?

Also, this doesn't count camp and CC sizes, which SC have stated are included.

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

I do hope these numbers are wrong, because as far as I can see it is saying that:
- air def level weighting is so low it is basically ignored. Likewise seeking air mines.
- the only TH8 items which really matter with a big weighting are: wiz tower and mortar and SMALL bomb.
- A level 2 AQ is worth twice as much as a level 1 AQ
- Archer level is more important than lava, golem, loon, hog

Really?

Also, this doesn't count camp and CC sizes, which SC have stated are included.

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They are wrong:( to be correct they'd have to be correct for EVERY base and they are not. Shame.

I have not done any calculations yet but I cant believe this numbers are true:
1.) Building lvl1 infernos gives (+30dps on multi) as much points as upgrading them to lvl2 (+8dps on multi) or even lvl3 (+4pds on multi). This makes no sense at all.
2.) Motars are the most useless buildings in cw. Wizard towers are only good against loons. So you want to tell me upgrading all my useless mortars one level gives me as much points as building 2 inferno towers lvl1?
3.) ADs are the most important thing at th8, so why do they have to few points? That makes no sense at all.

I dont know what the file is that you have found, but I cant believe it is the point for cw matchmaking that is calculated only on the server side.

Figured out how to use it. Got very close too my loot I have found xbow a little lower though!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OnyxDS

I do hope these numbers are wrong, because as far as I can see it is saying that:
- air def level weighting is so low it is basically ignored. Likewise seeking air mines.
- the only TH8 items which really matter with a big weighting are: wiz tower and mortar and SMALL bomb.
- A level 2 AQ is worth twice as much as a level 1 AQ
- Archer level is more important than lava, golem, loon, hog

Really?

Also, this doesn't count camp and CC sizes, which SC have stated are included.

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I really don't think a small bomb is worth almost double an air defence, the air defence has greater value even to ground raids;).

Well I was just using the weights I've found. It's up to you whether you want to believe them or not, I'm not saying they're correct, but I'm not saying they're wrong. Let's work together on improving them if they're off a bit.

Without your detailed calculation, and you posting your actual weight I can't understand what's the for you problem with the calculator. If anyone want's to help some details would be appreciated, if you don't too bad. :)

Edit: I`ll review comments in the morning, till then take it easy. Thanks ^^

Next up we need an online calculator.
Put in all your details and BAM!
You see wight

Hmm . My TH3 is worth 250 total. I've got a mortar, 2 canons, and an AT . A mortar is 500 according to the ♥♥. Can someone explain please:) I wanna believe Mosrki figured thiS out.

I see where you got these weights from, but you took the StrengthWeight2 for heros, instead of StrengthWeight1. Is there any reason why 2nd column was used?

That may be throwing you off somewhat in totals.

Also, Weight for walls is 200 per level not 4.2 like you showed in SpreadSheet

Anyways, i may be little rusty on new stuff (didn't play in a month or so), but where exactly do you see the weight in game, can someone explain?

i think this is simply a rough estimate.

I'm not sure troop weight counts.
I also think upgrading your TH adds weight even if you don't upgrade anything else.

Noticed that totally maxed 9 except for one level on the air sweeper weighed 67k while another 9 in a different clan weighed 73k but with only 21/20 heroes and barely any lava walls done.

From my observations the contribution for each defense towards the war loot is nonlinear. You can easily check this by looking at engineered bases like defenseless th10s or Th10s with th8 level defenses. Each new defense adds much more for bases worth 40k than bases worth 100k.

The reason the numbers work for some is because most people have the same defenses. When you have so many variables that are often correlated (those with L7 wiz towers will have L7 ADs etc) it's easy to come up values that fit the data and many people with close to identical bases will report good results.

Also, for TH9s (the most interesting use of war weights, imo) the difference in weight between a max TH9 and a TH8 is 20k. The difference between a max th9 and a a new TH9 with new defenses is something like 12k. The weights don't have to be very accurate to get a close result.

I suspect that each defense/wall etc probably has a value associated to it because it's the easiest to program. However, that war weight might be transformed (log?) to get to the war loot.

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Originally Posted by random2

From my observations the contribution for each defense towards the war loot is nonlinear. You can easily check this by looking at engineered bases like defenseless th10s or Th10s with th8 level defenses. Each new defense adds much more for bases worth 40k than bases worth 100k.

The reason the numbers work for some is because most people have the same defenses. When you have so many variables that are often correlated (those with L7 wiz towers will have L7 ADs etc) it's easy to come up values that fit the data and many people with close to identical bases will report good results.

Also, for TH9s (the most interesting use of war weights, imo) the difference in weight between a max TH9 and a TH8 is 20k. The difference between a max th9 and a a new TH9 with new defenses is something like 12k. The weights don't have to be very accurate to get a close result.

I suspect that each defense/wall etc probably has a value associated to it because it's the easiest to program. However, that war weight might be transformed (log?) to get to the war loot.

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Hey random2,

can you explain to me where do you see a wight in-game?

And those who are saying it wrong or an estimate. These weights weren't written from in game observations. They are completely from Supercell files. The fact they are right or so close to being right for so many means this isn't just a coincidence.

Moskri missed offence weights on Hero's in his sheet which adds an extra 1.9k total.

Whether these numbers are right. I believe they are. However I don't know how they translate. Eg. Small bombs. There are other possible ways to calculate like each value represents a block of bombs unlocked at each town hall. This would bring down the total considerably.
This would then cause the question is this relevant to all values. Walls. Xbows. Infernos?
If we start adding different weight groupings on each group to fit our preconceived max loot values we may be finding what we want to be the values not the actual values.
This is especially true when we don't know these values are supposed to fit directly with loot value.

And @AngryMartians they weren't stolen from your site they are available to everyone with coc. If however you did have these values earlier thanks for sharing with the community...
If you do have these values and have studied them for a bit longer do you mind weighing in and sharing some more advanced findings?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by K0n3s

And those who are saying it wrong or an estimate. These weights weren't written from in game observations. They are completely from Supercell files. The fact they are right or so close to being right for so many means this isn't just a coincidence.

Moskri missed offence weights on Hero's in his sheet which adds an extra 1.9k total.

Whether these numbers are right. I believe they are. However I don't know how they translate. Eg. Small bombs. There are other possible ways to calculate like each value represents a block of bombs unlocked at each town hall. This would bring down the total considerably.
This would then cause the question is this relevant to all values. Walls. Xbows. Infernos?
If we start adding different weight groupings on each group to fit our preconceived max loot values we may be finding what we want to be the values not the actual values.
This is especially true when we don't know these values are supposed to fit directly with loot value.

And @AngryMartians they weren't stolen from your site they are available to everyone with coc. If however you did have these values earlier thanks for sharing with the community...
If you do have these values and have studied them for a bit longer do you mind weighing in and sharing some more advanced findings?

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Just because it works for some people doesn't mean it's right. Most people's upgrades are very correlated and it's not difficult to find parameter values for each defense that will produce the correct weight for a majority of people. Most low th9s have similar defenses to other low th9s. Most mid th9s have similar defenses to other mid th9s.

For example, if you interchange the weight of air defenses, mortars, wiz towers, and teslas, the result will be the same for most bases. This is because most bases have 4 of each and roughly the same level. You can make the same argument with many of the defenses/troops. This is the reason why the formula seems to work for many bases. Just because it works for some bases doesn't mean that the values are even close to right.

The formula becomes wrong when you look at non-standard bases. For example, my th9 is missing a few defenses since th6. The spreadsheet says he is worth 31k. In actuality he is worth 49k. In another example, the formula says 41k while the actual worth is 54k.

Also it seems odd to me that troop levels matter in the formula when there was no indication otherwise. If troops contribute around 10k towards war loot levels, surely someone would have noticed it before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by random2

Just because it works for some people doesn't mean it's right. Most people's upgrades are very correlated and it's not difficult to find parameter values for each defense that will produce the correct weight for a majority of people. Most low th9s have similar defenses to other low th9s. Most mid th9s have similar defenses to other mid th9s.

For example, if you interchange the weight of air defenses, mortars, wiz towers, and teslas, the result will be the same for most bases. This is because most bases have 4 of each and roughly the same level. You can make the same argument with many of the defenses/troops. This is the reason why the formula seems to work for many bases. Just because it works for some bases doesn't mean that the values are even close to right.

The formula becomes wrong when you look at non-standard bases. For example, my th9 is missing a few defenses since th6. The spreadsheet says he is worth 31k. In actuality he is worth 49k. In another example, the formula says 41k while the actual worth is 54k.

Also it seems odd to me that troop levels matter in the formula when there was no indication otherwise. If troops contribute around 10k towards war loot levels, surely someone would have noticed it before.

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I think you missed my point that these numbers weren't found by looking at any bases. Normal or Abnormal. They are from files that give each building, troop, trap, wall, spell and hero a weight.

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Originally Posted by K0n3s

I think you missed my point that these numbers weren't found by looking at any bases. Normal or Abnormal. They are from files that give each building, troop, trap, wall, spell and hero a weight.

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They were supposedly obtained from a file that has, presumably, the name of the defenses, and some value. Doesn't mean it is war weight.

Also, the only way to validate the formula is to compare it to actual bases. My point is that comparing them to normal bases doesn't mean that it is close to correct because of the linear dependence of many of the defenses.

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Originally Posted by random2

They were supposedly obtained from a file that has, presumably, the name of the defenses, and some value. Doesn't mean it is war weight.

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The values are actually clearly labelled as such within the encrypted files.
And by majority of users it has confirmed the correlation. But as my first post says the translation of the values to war weight hasn't been completely fine tuned yet. There are a few variables that need to be figured out. Perhaps you can make a sheet of your levels and your current war weight for comparison?

Getting data from non standard bases will be the best way to check and fine tune.
The guys at gaymartians are filled with non standard bases and use the same weighting system as this.
This confirms that it does translate. They have had more time to fine tune based on the non standard bases which give better results as you can check individual defence upgrade results.

I used the calculator spreadsheet to check 3 TH9 accounts and 1 TH7 account. The TH9 numbers are reasonably close, but the TH7 number is way off.

The errors from real values for 3 TH9 accounts: -1.2%, -1.4% and -5.2%.
The errors from real value for the TH7 account: -23%

In general terms, it seems wrong that troop upgrade weights are directly added to the base weight for ranking on the map and loot bonus. I'd also imagine the HP a base has should contribute to its weight somewhat, i.e., buildings that don't attack should have some contribution.

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Originally Posted by wiped

I used the calculator spreadsheet to check 3 TH9 accounts and 1 TH7 account. The TH9 numbers are reasonably close, but the TH7 number is way off.

The errors from real values for 3 TH9 accounts: -1.2%, -1.4% and -5.2%.
The errors from real value for the TH7 account: -23%

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Can you tell me where in-game you see weights and what are you comparing to?

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Originally Posted by cjRandom

Can you tell me where in-game you see weights and what are you comparing to?

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The weight refers to the amount of resources your village offers when someone attacks you on battle day, but since the value is influenced by clan perks and TH loot penalty, it's less confusing to use the values in storages rather than the ones from replays.

Better explanation here: http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...te-base-weight

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Originally Posted by Foreigner

Better explanation here: http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...te-base-weight

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Thank you, finally someone kind enough to answer this question. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by cjRandom

Can you tell me where in-game you see weights and what are you comparing to?

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I use the map editor's "remove all" function to help me count the things, input that result into the calculator spreadsheet in OP, and compare the "total base weight" in the spreadsheet to the total in the gold storages (amount in 1 storage, multiply by 2 for TH7 and multiply by 4 for TH9) from the most recent wars in the last couple of days.

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Originally Posted by K0n3s

The values are actually clearly labelled as such within the encrypted files.
And by majority of users it has confirmed the correlation. But as my first post says the translation of the values to war weight hasn't been completely fine tuned yet. There are a few variables that need to be figured out. Perhaps you can make a sheet of your levels and your current war weight for comparison?

Getting data from non standard bases will be the best way to check and fine tune.
The guys at gaymartians are filled with non standard bases and use the same weighting system as this.
This confirms that it does translate. They have had more time to fine tune based on the non standard bases which give better results as you can check individual defence upgrade results.

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And you have seen the encrypted files?

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Originally Posted by Gama321

And you have seen the encrypted files?

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I've sent you a PM with location of those folders. So check it out for yourself :)

While I agree this is worth of something, I'll be honest and we can't be 100% sure it's working. It's off for some people, but it's perfect for some. Since I'm no tech guru or a programmer, hopefully someone from community can help us out on understanding these values and if we're lucky enough we can make a perfect base calculator, maybe even implement it on some sites like warclans.com so it's automatic or something, only time will tell. Thanks everyone for kind words, and thanks to everyone that have tried it and posted their results. Much appreciated

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moskri

While I agree this is worth of something, I'll be honest and we can't be 100% sure it's working. It's off for some people, but it's perfect for some. Since I'm no tech guru or a programmer, hopefully someone from community can help us out on understanding these values and if we're lucky enough we can make a perfect base calculator, maybe even implement it on some sites like warclans.com so it's automatic or something, only time will tell. Thanks everyone for kind words, and thanks to everyone that have tried it and posted their results. Much appreciated

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Or u could play and have fun, balance your defence and offence and stop trying to crack easier match ups. The desperation here is silly. All power 2 ya if that's what u r into but I wonder what's happening in some people's rl if in their spare time they r spending so much time trying to find loopholes in a game rather than b challenged by it. Crack open a window, the sun is shining, your village will b there when u get back. And if you got skill, talent and maxed troops at your lvl then who cares about weights? Like seriously lol

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Originally Posted by Blissbomb

Or u could play and have fun, balance your defence and offence and stop trying to crack easier match ups. The desperation here is silly. All power 2 ya if that's what u r into but I wonder what's happening in some people's rl if in their spare time they r spending so much time trying to find loopholes in a game rather than b challenged by it. Crack open a window, the sun is shining, your village will b there when u get back. And if you got skill, talent and maxed troops at your lvl then who cares about weights? Like seriously lol

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I didn't make this post in order to ''♥♥♥♥♥'' the match making system, I've simply shared my discovery. If you go to my base you will see I'm doing everything I can to become as heavy as I can. I'm a 20 days old th10, and my IT's are all level 3, working on AD's/Xbows and WT's are next. I don't care about making holes, since I want to get maxed asap. Whats up with my life? You're seriously triggering that card? Other then studying civil engineering, getting drunk with friends, working, going out with GF, I think I can actually do whatever I want in my free time, my sleeping schedule isn't the greatest but oh well. I still think you got no rights to go there. If you're salty for who knows which reason, keep it for yourself rather then interfering with other peoples life's. Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by whp4

For my mid-level TH9 base, the number gotten with the calculator was 61,343, value from replay of yesterday's war was 61,000. That looks good.

However, I then did the guy just above me, who has x-bows (I don't) and otherwise is my level or below with only 1 or 2 exceptions, and I got a weight around 55,000, though his offer was also 61,000. It would appear that the x-bow weights aren't quite high enough to provide the empirical results I see each war — my base is equal to or stronger in just about every category to the TH9 bases above me, except I have no x-bows and they do. Will run the numbers again for the war starting shortly and see if it gets better.

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May I ask how do you get your actual value from replay?

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Originally Posted by o0oAnnyo0o

May I ask how do you get your actual value from replay?

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Check the defensive replay of your war base, and check the value that is offered to enemy from a win. Or go to your war base during the war day, and take weight from 1 storage, multiply it with 4 and add 1k for th. :)

First of all, thanks for sharing.

I am a brand new town hall 9 and I am weighted 55K. I put my stuff in your excel file and got 51.460 hoping I didn't do anything wrong.

My question is: why did you assume the wall weights need tweaking? Is there an indication that everything else is correct but walls are not? You found that walls weigh 2200 and you got 11740 except for walls. That 's way off. If everyone changes their wall weights to match the formula won't get you anywhere.

In my opinion, you should not mess with the weights of walls. Maybe these numbers are used for matchmaking and to calculate your base weight you have to consider only defences? It would be very interesting if someone posted how much really low bases weight (without any defences, or a town hall 3).

PS: Where did you find that info?

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Originally Posted by correlation

First of all, thanks for sharing.

I am a brand new town hall 9 and I am weighted 55K. I put my stuff in your excel file and got 51.460 assuming I didn't do anything wrong.

My question is: why you assume the wall weights need tweaking? Is there an indication that everything else is correct but walls are not? You found that walls weight 2200 and you got 11740 except for walls. That 's way off. If everyone changes their wall weights to match the formula won't get you anywhere.

In my opinion, you should not mess with the weights of walls. Maybe these numbers are used for matchmaking and to calculate your base weight you have to consider only defences? It would be very interesting if someone posted how much really low bases weight (without any defences, or a town hall 3).

PS: Where did you find that info?

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You're welcome, well before this update, you would be a 73k as a maxed th9, but when you reached 25/25 heroes you would go up by 1k, and when you got around 70% of lava walls you would go up to 75k which was maxed th9 pre update. So with that logic, weights go up after certain amount of walls are finished, it's on us to discover what's the correct amount. We came to conclusion that a single piece of wall goes up for 4.2 for each level giving you a grand total of 46.2 as maxed. Apparently not everything is correct, but gives a nice ''preview'' maybe we can figure it out somehow, and actually get them all right.

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Originally Posted by Moskri

You're welcome, well before this update, you would be a 73k as a maxed th9, but when you reached 25/25 heroes you would go up by 1k, and when you got around 70% of lava walls you would go up to 75k which was maxed th9 pre update. So with that logic, weights go up after certain amount of walls are finished, it's on us to discover what's the correct amount. We came to conclusion that a single piece of wall goes up for 4.2 for each level giving you a grand total of 46.2 as maxed. Apparently not everything is correct, but gives a nice ''preview'' maybe we can figure it out somehow, and actually get them all right.

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So, you re saying that there is no info about walls in the file? That's why you try to calculate it yourself? What is that 2200 in the file you shared?

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Originally Posted by Moskri

Check the defensive replay of your war base, and check the value that is offered to enemy from a win. Or go to your war base during the war day, and take weight from 1 storage, multiply it with 4 and add 1k for th. :)

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oh, so you means the amount of gold offers is the weight.

Well, unless the file I download is incorrect, it's not really accurate. I tried on my base, which come out to be 88k. In fact, my base offer 92k in last war, and I update 4 piece of wall since then.

It's awesome maths, though. If you can tell us where your friend find this raw files, we might help validate it. If it's in your friend phones, it should be in our phones, too. I have both rooted android device and jb iphone :)

Also a friend is working on some dps/hit points for all the defense levels, so we can check out what are the differences for 8.5s and 9.5s etc.. Told me it should be up today, will keep you updated :)

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Originally Posted by correlation

So, you re saying that there is no info about walls in the file? That's why you try to calculate it yourself? What is that 2200 in the file you shared?

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There is info in the file, and It's for a maxed wall 2200, but it can't be for 250 walls, and it surely can't be for only 1 piece of wall, so we're trying to figure out how the 2200 number relates towards number of walls.

Thanks for input I am playing with the file, I have noticed 2 mistakes in the 'Raw data' :

- Healers appear 2 times but with different figures
- Skelleton traps lvl 1, 2 and 3 have the same weight

I will tell you about my results.

Tried finding the weight of my TH8 account. In game it is worth 38,000, according to the spreadsheets though, it's only worth 16,512. Maybe someone can check my work.

Defenses total - 6,225 Offense total - 3,870 Walls total = 6,417 Grand total -16,512
5x lv1 canons= 500 Lv4 barbs = 400 47 Lv6 = 1,184
5x Lv1 ATs = 500 Lv4 Archers = 600 178 Lv7 = 5,233
3x Lv1 WTs = 1,500 Lv1 Giant = 120
3x Lv1 ADs = 120 Lv1 goblin = 50
4x Lv1 Mortars = 2,000 Lv4 loon = 480
2x Lv1 Teslas = 200 Lv2 wiz = 300
BK Lv3 = 45 Lv1 healer = 180
6x Lv1 Bombs =600 Lv1 minon = 120
3x Lv1 GBs = 300 Lv1 Hogs = 120
4x v1 ABs = 200 Lv3 Lightning Spell= 300
2x Lv1 AMs = 40 Lv4 Heal =800
2x Lv1 Skele traps = 100 Lv4 Rage = 400
6x Spring Traps = 120

I have compared 2 TH9 that are next to each other on war map, I have chosen these ones cause looking at their base I don't understand their order.

My result : the higher on war map has 65k in storages, calculation based on your file gives me 60.7k.
the lower on war map has 64k in storages, calculation based on your file gives me 61.6k.

The difference is not negligeable, and following your datas the order on war map should be different.

Main difference between these accounts is that the higher on map has all skull walls, a bit higher traps and troops, but all defenses at TH8 level + 2 xbow lvl 1.
The lower on map has lvl 7 walls, but in defense has all WT, Mortar and Tesla upgraded to lvl 7 level.

Only explanation I see is the weight of walls, I really dont get that base order :s

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Originally Posted by KennyFC

Tried finding the weight of my TH8 account. In game it is worth 38,000, according to the spreadsheets though, it's only worth 16,512. Maybe someone can check my work.

Defenses total - 6,225 Offense total - 3,870 Walls total = 6,417 Grand total -16,512
5x lv1 canons= 500 Lv4 barbs = 400 47 Lv6 = 1,184
5x Lv1 ATs = 500 Lv4 Archers = 600 178 Lv7 = 5,233
3x Lv1 WTs = 1,500 Lv1 Giant = 120
3x Lv1 ADs = 120 Lv1 goblin = 50
4x Lv1 Mortars = 2,000 Lv4 loon = 480
2x Lv1 Teslas = 200 Lv2 wiz = 300
BK Lv3 = 45 Lv1 healer = 180
6x Lv1 Bombs =600 Lv1 minon = 120
3x Lv1 GBs = 300 Lv1 Hogs = 120
4x v1 ABs = 200 Lv3 Lightning Spell= 300
2x Lv1 AMs = 40 Lv4 Heal =800
2x Lv1 Skele traps = 100 Lv4 Rage = 400
6x Spring Traps = 120

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All your defenses are level 1 ?

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Originally Posted by Blissbomb

Or u could play and have fun, balance your defence and offence and stop trying to crack easier match ups. The desperation here is silly. All power 2 ya if that's what u r into but I wonder what's happening in some people's rl if in their spare time they r spending so much time trying to find loopholes in a game rather than b challenged by it. Crack open a window, the sun is shining, your village will b there when u get back. And if you got skill, talent and maxed troops at your lvl then who cares about weights? Like seriously lol

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Learn English.

Yes. All the defenses and traps are level 1.

so my leaf blower, teslas, and air defense are the best to upgrade as a new th9 to stay low for the matches?

and i don't understand your wall ideas. trying to decide if its smart to be upgrading them early.

I tried the calculator on my two account. The first, which is a town hall 10 and looks like a standard th10 had a base weight of 84,193 with the actual weight being 86k, so pretty close.

The second account is a irregularly upgraded th8 which using the calculator got 27,528 but the actual weight is 38k a difference of 10k. I can only guess that these calculations and numbers work for uniformly upgraded bases and not irregulars.

Could I see the encrypted file and its location?

At first, i was trying to calculate the weight of a mildly engineered TH7 (35k) and got 29k using the calculator.

I went to read comments in here and reddit, so many people got 4-5k difference when calculating bases with walls less than 225/250 (meaning when they're trying to calculate TH8 and below).

I went back to the spreadsheat, and did a very simple math :

2200/250=8.8

I updated the calculator, and voila, the mildly engineered TH7 is now 34,877 (real weight is 35k).

I solved the mystery right? :p


update: it doesn't work when i try to calculate a th8, way off. guess i didnt solve any mystery ��

My only question is why your friend was browsing through the game files in the first place? That should certainly raise a few eyebrows ... Ever since I started playing this game I never felt the urge to browse through the game files, one really has to wonder what your friend was really up to.

Edit: From looking at the Terms of Service I suspect that the following restriction may have been violated here. I certainly hope that Supercell can look into this and take appropriate action since the ToS apply to all of us..

• Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, decipher or otherwise attempt to derive the source code for any underlying software or other intellectual property used to provide the Service or any Supercell game, or to obtain any information from the Service or any Supercell game using any method not expressly permitted by Supercell.

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Originally Posted by CanadianLegend

My only question is why your friend was browsing through the game files in the first place? That should certainly raise a few eyebrows ... Ever since I started playing this game I never felt the urge to browse through the game files, one really has to wonder what your friend was really up to.

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Maybe he was trying to find the war weight for troops and defenses.

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Originally Posted by ThisIsThunderclap

Maybe he was trying to find the war weight for troops and defenses.

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Well, unless Supercell gave him permission to do so this looks like a clear violation of the Terms of Service to me:

http://supercell.com/en/terms-of-service/

I've took weights from a spreadsheet that a friend sent me. Don't think transfering numbers from a ♥♥ to calculator is against ToS. :)

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Originally Posted by Moskri

Check the defensive replay of your war base, and check the value that is offered to enemy from a win. Or go to your war base during the war day, and take weight from 1 storage, multiply it with 4 and add 1k for th. :)

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A bit of care is required here. Multiplying by 4 only works when you have 4 identically-sized storages. Interestingly, if you have a mix of sizes, the largest capacity storage is NOT the one which gets the most "loot" assigned, in my experience, but rather the opposite.

If you go the replay route, you need to be sure that the attacker in the replay was the same town hall level as the base, or an adjustment may be needed for the effects of the loot penalty. No such adjustment is required if you get the value from scouting the storages.

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Originally Posted by whp4

A bit of care is required here. Multiplying by 4 only works when you have 4 identically-sized storages. Interestingly, if you have a mix of sizes, the largest capacity storage is NOT the one which gets the most "loot" assigned, in my experience, but rather the opposite.

If you go the replay route, you need to be sure that the attacker in the replay was the same town hall level as the base, or an adjustment may be needed for the effects of the loot penalty. No such adjustment is required if you get the value from scouting the storages.

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Yeah basically if you don't have 4 storages of same size you just need to add all weights from all 4 manually and add additional 1k for th

Attachment 115227

NOTE- Cerv and 2nch weights are rounded, due to me being dumb. By 8.5 I pretty much mean no xbows.

One of the more interesting things I see is on the Veni acct. Im not quite sure where the 800 point error comes from, most likely from walls. All accts are in #2RCVJ2OL

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Originally Posted by BlargityTucker

It shows xbows all count for same weight regardless of lvl. Or is that just the amount of weight added on at each lvl?

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It is the amount added each level, he clearly states that in the video

All this stuff is great. Whether this is perfectly accurate doesn't matter, I am sure it is close.

The real issue is whether there is any point in it.

What analysis can we gather from this in order to improve our clans to aide matchmaking?

In my opinion, largely accurate values have been placed on items so very little gaming of matchmaking can be done. For example, who would want a TH10 who doesn't have freeze spells if they want 3 star raiders and who would want a TH9 who focussed on upgrading their king at the expense of their queen.

This is pointless information without someone providing decent analysis.

My analysis can be summed up in one sentence:

The clan with the highest combined weight of heroes always has the edge.

By increasing their weighting, Supercell have not altered this undeniable fact. Supercell have not placed enough emphasis on heroes weighting, therefore, they are still the single most important factor towards having an advantage in war.

Forget what a mortar or wiz tower is worth. Mortars don't win wars, heroes win wars.

The OP knows this and everyone reading this should too. You want to win wars, recruit members with high lvl heroes. Decent offence and defence come as standard with high lvl heroes.

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Originally Posted by AyrtonAli

All this stuff is great. Whether this is perfectly accurate doesn't matter, I am sure it is close.

The real issue is whether there is any point in it.

What analysis can we gather from this in order to improve our clans to aide matchmaking?

In my opinion, largely accurate values have been placed on items so very little gaming of matchmaking can be done. For example, who would want a TH10 who doesn't have freeze spells if they want 3 star raiders and who would want a TH9 who focussed on upgrading their king at the expense of their queen.

This is pointless information without someone providing decent analysis.

My analysis can be summed up in one sentence:

The clan with the highest combined weight of heroes always has the edge.

By increasing their weighting, Supercell have not altered this undeniable fact. Supercell have not placed enough emphasis on heroes weighting, therefore, they are still the single most important factor towards having an advantage in war.

Forget what a mortar or wiz tower is worth. Mortars don't win wars, heroes win wars.

The OP knows this and everyone reading this should too. You want to win wars, recruit members with high lvl heroes. Decent offence and defence come as standard with high lvl heroes.

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Exactly this, it's pretty much pointless to game the system imo. Hence my decision to go full at th10 rather then a 9.5, won't bring anything but your base getting 3 starred easily. Also on a set up match ups those accounts won't be allowed. And majority of time they will struggle in other wars.

Reason I've shared this isn't so people wouldn't upgrade wizard tower, or freeze spell, it's just because I thought it would be an interesting thing to check. I've thrown much time into this, just cause it felt interesting dealing with all those numbers and calculating weights. But it's certainly not correct for every part. There are some miss behavior's here and there, hence the weighting being different then what the calculator gives. For some people it's correct, for some it isn't so I've got no clue what's that all about. I'm guessing that SC takes weighting different for those accounts that are made to game the system and just adds their weight up in the end. That's all just one big conspiracy theory of mine, and if something good goes from this I'd be glad. If it doesn't I'm sorry. :)

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Originally Posted by Moskri

Exactly this, it's pretty much pointless to game the system imo. Hence my decision to go full at th10 rather then a 9.5, won't bring anything but your base getting 3 starred easily. Also on a set up match ups those accounts won't be allowed. And majority of time they will struggle in other wars.

Reason I've shared this isn't so people wouldn't upgrade wizard tower, or freeze spell, it's just because I thought it would be an interesting thing to check. I've thrown much time into this, just cause it felt interesting dealing with all those numbers and calculating weights. But it's certainly not correct for every part. There are some miss behavior's here and there, hence the weighting being different then what the calculator gives. For some people it's correct, for some it isn't so I've got no clue what's that all about. I'm guessing that SC takes weighting different for those accounts that are made to game the system and just adds their weight up in the end. That's all just one big conspiracy theory of mine, and if something good goes from this I'd be glad. If it doesn't I'm sorry. :)

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Thank you for the effort and time you have put into this. I certainly appreciate it.

We have a guy in our clan who is th10. He has no xbows and has no infernos but has decent TH9 heroes, soon to be even higher, and strong th10 offence. You may wanna call him a TH9.1. I think he gives us an advantage even if his base is 3 starred by opposition th10.

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Originally Posted by CanadianLegend

My only question is why your friend was browsing through the game files in the first place? That should certainly raise a few eyebrows ... Ever since I started playing this game I never felt the urge to browse through the game files, one really has to wonder what your friend was really up to.

Edit: From looking at the Terms of Service I suspect that the following restriction may have been violated here. I certainly hope that Supercell can look into this and take appropriate action since the ToS apply to all of us..

• Reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, decipher or otherwise attempt to derive the source code for any underlying software or other intellectual property used to provide the Service or any Supercell game, or to obtain any information from the Service or any Supercell game using any method not expressly permitted by Supercell.

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Just because any software company's legal counsel put something in the terms of service does not necessarily mean that it is enforceable or binding on everyone, though certainly they would like you to believe it is. EULA law is varied and often unsettled according to attorneys I have spoken to about it. This is not a suggestion that you can disregard it, merely an observation of the way attorneys who draft such documents operate. Every possible way that can be imagined to prevent you from doing something they perceive as not in their interest (regardless of whatever statutory rights you may have) will be tossed in there in the hopes that at least some of it will be enforceable if legal action is taken. Example: the TOS says in the second paragraph that you may not even browse a Supercell website without agreeing to abide by the TOS, even though you cannot first read the TOS to be in a position to determine whether you are able to abide by the TOS without browsing a Supercell website!

A literal reading of the quoted text would have one thinking that looking at the loot offered by various bases during war was off limits as well, though it would be highly entertaining to see a legal argument that attempted to stop players of the game from discussing what the game openly displays. Yet from that and enough trials one could derive the contents of the file from which the information being discussed allegedly originated. "Security through obscurity" rarely lasts when smart and curious people find an interesting puzzle. Assuming the base weighting function is essentially linear (in other words, upgrading a cannon from level 1 to 2 adds the same amount to your base weight whether a TH3 or TH10), one could construct a website that took two screen captures and the weights assigned to both and after a sufficiently large number of such submissions derive enough simultaneous equations to estimate the weights of the various structures. Such a program could be undertaken by someone who didn't even play the game, would not interact with any Supercell servers or clients, and thus would not be bound by the TOS.

It would be very unwise to publish any actual code found in the app, however! That can get you in trouble in areas of the law where you have less room to maneuver, and you probably do not want to go there.

And CanadianLegend, have I missed your posts urging that Supercell take action against the countless kids under the age of 13 playing the game, or those from 13-17 who failed to get parental permission? That is a clear violation of the very first restriction of use found in the TOS...though those of a cynical bent might wonder if Supercell tries not to notice all the underage kids buying gems with their allowance or the iTunes/google gift card grandma gave them for their birthday. As you took the trouble to mention, "the ToS apply to all of us."

As for why one would want to do this, I'll speak only for myself. I want to make the upgrades that give me the most bang for the buck first, and skip or delay those which bring me little benefit but may disadvantage my clan. If I don't care about multiplayer raiding losses to barchers, and a mortar gives me a large weight for clan war matchmaking while hindering almost none of the attacks typically used on my base in war, I want to spend the gold and builder time on something that will help me win against stronger opponents. I'm not interested in getting war matchups that are easy wins; I would prefer to understand it in order to help my clan get a steady stream of challenging wars where both sides fight to the very end, and the team that plays better gets a narrow margin of victory.

I don't think there is an issue with having this information exposed, much the opposite! Doesn't seem to hurt gameplay to know how many DPS a level 5 hog rider puts out, why should it be an issue to know how the game weights a level 2 inferno tower?