There is no real reason war spectators need to see traps and it forces clans to shut down recruiting of they want to avoid the opponents possibly spying. I propose making traps visible to only friendly players in the clan war.
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There is no real reason war spectators need to see traps and it forces clans to shut down recruiting of they want to avoid the opponents possibly spying. I propose making traps visible to only friendly players in the clan war.
That's not a bad idea. Helps a lot with balancing whether or not you should accept someone into the clan when you're worried about spies.
More and more clans are both spying and closing recruiting during wars. I'm not sure if supercell wanted this aspect in the game.
For one, OP's threat will likely cause many of the people here tired of seeing this to rip into it harshly, just like the last time this was said. :(
... I best get a summary out before the drama hits.
This this gameplay issue is actually rather mild and more annoying than it is harmful. If anything, overreaction to it does more harm than the act itself, since eventually most clan traps and CC troop loadouts will be seen, and the most effective way to block spies is the commonly suggested/ordered "Close your clan". And yes, such things should be kept secret on the first attack (assuming you don't broadcast likely spots in your base layout), but getting it to work in an acceptable way has been... a challenge, to say the very least.
Some people don't even see this as an issue and tell people to in-effect, 'shut up and deal with it'. Others see it as a major threat and should be fixed now, and they think that fix is simple and clear cut, when it usually isn't.
The best solution so far is a very simple to code status check, using the 'New' tag a clan member gets when they join. If they have that, they can't see traps or War Base CC troops. (I think a function checking how long they had that New status should be made and can make the block time shorter, but that's just me) Anything more, and you start to punish friendly clan hoppers (since promoting would remove the New status and the block along with it), and further than that, like the proposed idea here, and you needlessly punish every clan member that didn't feel like being in war. Just because they are not in the war doesn't mean those members should be blocked in helping thier members with layout ideas
People can argue all day on thier version of logic for this, and make this a real 'internet argument' (aka, frivolous arguement where everyone loses... except maybe for troll), but the fact of the matter is there is a perceived problem, and should be handled as pragmatically as possible and be done with this debate. We need to move on to other things than this.
I don't care who is 'right', someone needs to do something and help cut down the useless distracting chatter.
we r a clan that spy clans during wars so there must not be this feature added...Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity135
First of all no threats were made. I used to play eve where spies were intentionally a big aspect of the game, as was piracy, so my comment on the intentions of the game creators was valid and not a threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
Secondly, nobody would be punished by this change since there is no point in spectators seeing the traps at all. I do like the idea of the visibility being tied to the "new" tag, as that would solve any spying issues.
Thirdly, I'm not sure how far you progressed in the game but knowing where traps are is crucial to attacks like hog raids. Also knowing what to expect in the war Clan castle is huge too.
(Edited typo)
Just saying how past events have happened with similar threads. I believe spying is not intended by Supercell as well, or they would have made purpose built features for it. But regardless of that, others will still come up here and say I'm totaly wrong, and it is as intended. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity135
There have been so many arguments as to who should be able to see what, and taking away features from players causes more harm than adding features. This idea takes away what is currently available, and will get flak from players for that. If it was that way from the start, we wouldn't be having this debate. If anything, we'd have a less flame war causing debate of allowing other in the clan to see what others have.
(Added Edit: Thanks. The 'New' status check was a mix of people's ideas. Can link the details)
You haven't seen what I have listed on my signiture I take it... I'm leaning towards more Hog Rider war armies now since I have more DE than I can use... before upgrading to TH9.
I disagree that this will negatively affect players unless that player is participating in spying. War spectators don't benefit from seeing traps in war bases unless they're giving base advice, but the they made it so easy to change bases now that that's not an issue.
Maybe not in your clan but in most active clans with effective leadership the new/young/learning members most certainly DO need to be able to see them so they can learn the difference between war base strategy and traditional PvP base strategy. All of the new players and well run clans should not be punished because a few clans (by percentage) don't want to use well proven and highly effective methods that are already available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity135
That said, I have seen one ok idea that Warren was a big supporter of. It solves the spying . . . lets call it a loophole, because it is not a problem. The only reason it is a ok idea is because it didn't limit the ability of developing clan members to learn, nor their leaders to educate them. The idea proposed in this thread is a bad idea because this removes one of the best education tools in the game. Thus it is a bad idea.
I personally like the idea of 'New' members not being able to see traps etc.
Even if this block only lasted 48 hours, it'll be enough to stop spying and not too much to lash back onto new helpful players. (As mentioned, they could always be promoted to also remove this block).
I don't see the problem(s) with the above solution.
It'll stop spying and the complaints over it (two birds one stone I guess)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuelf
Neither bird is even worth throwing a rock at, but this suggestion has no negative impact on the game, where the OP's had a negative tangible impact that far outweighs any perceived warm and fuzzy emotional benefit. That is why I am ok with the "new" tag method but flatly against the "spectator" method.
From what I know of coding; doing a time check on the 'New' status to block 'Clan Secrets' from possible spies would likely take about as much effort to code as it did to get the facing right on the people that sit on top of the Archer and Wizard Towers.
Reason I keep bringing it up is because people on all sides still seems to be more or less fine with it (which is rare in any entrenched debate), and helps cut to the chase. Otherwise people would have argued over the same stuff again, because no one really looks up past threads... and can't blame them. I do research on a wiki site and can check sources, not on a public forum where things are... questionable at times.
Which is the single most important reason why it is worth considering. I still doubt it will have any real impact on game play but it certainly won't hurt it or even alter it. It will certainly give the vocal minority the "I'm hugging a teddy bear!" warm and fuzzy emotion they were hoping for, which would be nice for them. Even I like hugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
I agree that the new players tag idea is better. It addresses the problem and had no negative impact like you mentioned. Someone who actually knows how to use strategy properly can 3 star most bases with knowledge of trap locations and cc troops and that's why this spying is a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by iceageg
I'm trying to help improve the game btw, not push my idea as you seem think. Not everyone seeks emotional benefit from a game or its forums.
New has to be something that one gets promoted out of then. It can't be just something the game removes when it is ready. That's to give clans te choice to show thir bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuelf
But the reality is not that guys should get over it, they can stay mad if they want. But if they want to stop getting outsmarted then they should try being smarter.
And I saw earlier speculation on whether this was considered a problem or not. It is not, Nor was in an unintended thing as was also suggested earlier. They intend to keep it in the game and want us to deal with it. Here is the official word...
Attachment 114158
It's a good idea.
With traps invisible to spectators, it makes for a better show for the spectators, and relieves the concerns of many about new clan members being spies.
People with the red "New" tag should not be able to see war traps
The New status (yes, it is in red in-game) goes away on it's own after a few days (week?). Which means it has a time factor in it. And that means there is no need to add some extra flag onto people coming in just to stop spying. All TheySC has to do is set an authorisation check to see if New is 'old enough' to see the clan's CC troops and traps. They can wait several hours (or whatever SC thinks is proper), or be promoted, which is likely needed for friendly hopers anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by rwelshjr
Not everybody plays the spy game like the crybaby victim. Some players do want them to see the bases we are showing. So they should not change anything. Their current stance (stated above) is the right way to handle it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtommy2597
If you don't want the other guy to outsmart you then be smarter than the other guy.
This is how it should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuelf
Spying in wars is just lame. Making it so new players can't see traps for 48 hours or promoted makes the most sense.
1. New clan members can't see traps.
or
2. War spectators can't see traps.
1 or 2, doesn't make much difference in solving the small problem.
"Traps" should include the CC defense troops.
Regardless on if it makes much difference to you or not, it seems to make a world of difference for others. Let's pick the one that we can best agree on and toss it to SC and hope they are able to fine tune it to best solve this.Quote:
Originally Posted by George1971
Agree, however just make it an option for clan leaders. Let them choose if war spectators can scout the war bases or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity135
That way if you want to protect yourself from spying you can, or if you want bases fully visible for teaching purposes you can do that also.
That's not good!
Spectator can help any player qith strategy and if you want make strategis without see some traps, hard work!
Which is where making it optional to the clan leader is the solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by totalcrazy2002
There are so many aspects of this game that makes clan leaders powerless, they need more flexibility. This is one of those areas where it absolutely needs improvement.