Make revenge possible

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May 8th, 2015
Btmitchell78

Make revenge possible

Real quick. Allow us to see how much shield remains for players we try to revenge. I know, I know. Most active players deactivate their shields before letting them run out but at least we have a better chance of getting revenge. Think about a time that you really wanted revenge and you try to revenge them but find they have an active shield. (That should be easy to imagine). That's kind of a bummer every time. Now what if you are told that they have an active shield for another 5 minutes and 15 seconds? I don't know about you but I'm sticking around to give it a go.
May 8th, 2015
BlahBlah161616

Quote:

Originally Posted by Btmitchell78

Real quick. Allow us to see how much shield remains for players we try to revenge. I know, I know. Most active players deactivate their shields before letting them run out but at least we have a better chance of getting revenge. Think about a time that you really wanted revenge and you try to revenge them but find they have an active shield. (That should be easy to imagine). That's kind of a bummer every time. Now what if you are told that they have an active shield for another 5 minutes and 15 seconds? I don't know about you but I'm sticking around to give it a go.

Revenge is possible.

But, it would be nice for a tweak that tells u how long the opponents shield is.
May 8th, 2015
Btmitchell78

possible yeah, but hardly so

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlahBlah161616

Revenge is possible.

But, it would be nice for a tweak that tells u how long the opponents shield is.

You're right. It is possible but from my experience over the last two years is that tapping the revenge button has become a fruitless endeavor for the most part. Getting the details, as you kindly agreed with, is a nice courtesy all users could appreciate.
May 8th, 2015
BlahBlah161616

Quote:

Originally Posted by Btmitchell78

You're right. It is possible but from my experience over the last two years is that tapping the revenge button has become a fruitless endeavor for the most part. Getting the details, as you kindly agreed with, is a nice courtesy all users could appreciate.

That's why I avoid revenge,
May 8th, 2015
dennisjm

Ah, but if I recall, Angryneeson52 loves his revenge. Was revenge not a special enough feature of the game to warrant a super bowl commercial? Seems if SC can spend enough money to promote the concept on TV they could do a little enhancing of the concept ;)

Lets not keep Neeson from regaining his glory because he has to push the revenge button all the time instead of play the game.
May 8th, 2015
BlahBlah161616

Quote:

Originally Posted by dennisjm

Ah, but if I recall, Angryneeson52 loves his revenge. Was revenge not a special enough feature of the game to warrant a super bowl commercial? Seems if SC can spend enough money to promote the concept on TV they could do a little enhancing of the concept ;)

Lets not keep Neeson from regaining his glory because he has to push the revenge button all the time instead of play the game.

I thought the concept was dragons and barbarians and coffee shops...
May 8th, 2015
awesomness2016

I think there is a fairly strong consensus that the current revenge system doesn't work particularly well.

One thing that has been suggested that would help is allowing players to scroll through the bases available for revenge in visiting mode (without breaking their shield) to see if a base is worth attacking, with a button there to revenge. When visiting a base, it should tell you how much they stole from you (as someone who often leaves their TH out, I do not revenge people who only snipe me), and if they're online, have a shield, or are available for revenge. Having at least a rough estimate of when their shield will run out would also be nice.

This got me thinking about a bigger change though that would make revenge a lot more viable. What if, instead of your shield going down all at once, it started to falter as it ran out? In this case it might be too much if you knew about how long you had until an opponent's shield ran out, but the basic idea is that there would be a window at the end of your shield when your base is available ONLY to players looking to revenge you. Say half an hour.
May 8th, 2015
AxionXD

The easier you make it to revenge them, the easier you make it for them to revenge you...
May 8th, 2015
awesomness2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxionXD

The easier you make it to revenge them, the easier you make it for them to revenge you...

I'm fine with that. I feel like the revenge feature is one that would get more players more involved in the game if it was a bit easier to actually get revenge on someone.
May 8th, 2015
dennisjm

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesomness2016

I'm fine with that. I feel like the revenge feature is one that would get more players more involved in the game if it was a bit easier to actually get revenge on someone.

True True, I get revenged rarely. I already take thought into who I attack to avoid being crushed on a revenge. I think making it a bit easier would help promote that mentality. I'm perfectly fine with giving those I crush a chance to get me back :)
May 8th, 2015
Btmitchell78

I'm fine with that too

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxionXD

The easier you make it to revenge them, the easier you make it for them to revenge you...

Really, its fine with me. I'm all for a more competitive atmosphere. What I'm suggesting is a very simple idea that would be very easy for SC to implement. Let us see how long our former attackers current shields are.
May 8th, 2015
dennisjm

And add while you're at it how much loot you'll get if you 3 star them ;)
Which was the other thread I posted on the subject...
May 8th, 2015
Uthrac

Thoughts ....

1. The bandwidth. When I tap "Revenge," I get a few clouds to load the enemy's base. Having a countdown on the revenge screen might mean loading all possible bases, which is a lot of bandwidth. I wonder how much extra infrastructure is needed for "Opponent has a shield." and "Opponent has a shield for 5 hours."

2. Dirty lies! Okay, I got the message that they have a shield for 5 hours. I build my army and watch a movie or two. Now I go to Revenge and ... "Opponent has a shield for 10 hours." ♥♥♥♥. Guess they broke their shield and someone else attacked.

3. Last minute bidding. Okay, me and 10 other players the opponent attacked are waiting on that countdown. As soon as the shield drops, only one of us will get that sweet Revenge. The other 10 players get "This village is already under attack." Play sad trombone noise here ...

While I personally see how the information might help me, thinking about everyone else makes me think this feature won't actually improve game play at all. (i.e. I get even more frustrated that I cannot Revenge particular targets.)
May 8th, 2015
Btmitchell78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uthrac

Thoughts

While I personally see how the information might help me, thinking about everyone else makes me think this feature won't actually improve game play at all. (i.e. I get even more frustrated that I cannot Revenge particular targets.)

For me, this feature is about information. It would improve the chance of revenge not grant it every time. i bet it would be frustrating should someone else beat you to the punch though. This simple idea of mine would improve our chances of getting revenge because we would have a better idea as to when a base might be shieldless. As you mentioned, it's not going to satisfy all the time. Still, there would be more chances to revenge them successfully if you miss out a few times. Guys usually stay listed for awhile.
May 8th, 2015
Drackos

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxionXD

The easier you make it to revenge them, the easier you make it for them to revenge you...

Exactly why this needs to be looked at both ways. You would have people climbing champs and the guy in silver revenge them for 59 trophy a simply because they got attacked. That's why this feature is abusable and I feel would hurt the game. Yea it's a damn pain it's hard to revenge. I don't see anyone complains about how they got revenged and zapped. (Oh wait that's all the time.)
May 8th, 2015
AxionXD

I have probably 20 times the amount of people who want to revenge me then I to revenge them.

In fact, I have only one person worthy of being revenged in my history right now.

Yet, I have easily countless numbers of people whom I've raided for max loot who are itching to revenge me.

That number could be anywhere from 20-100, depending on how fast I get dropped from the variety of people's history. Could easily be more.

So unless you just have a terrible base that can't protect loot and you are terrible at raiding, not making any enemies out there, you'd be absolutely out of your mind to want Revenging made easier!
May 8th, 2015
awesomness2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxionXD

I have probably 20 times the amount of people who want to revenge me then I to revenge them.

In fact, I have only one person worthy of being revenged in my history right now.

Yet, I have easily countless numbers of people whom I've raided for max loot who are itching to revenge me.

That number could be anywhere from 20-100, depending on how fast I get dropped from the variety of people's history. Could easily be more.

So unless you just have a terrible base that can't protect loot and you are terrible at raiding, not making any enemies out there, you'd be absolutely out of your mind to want Revenging made easier!

Call me crazy then. I'm sure I have a lot more people wanting to revenge me than I want to revenge too, but I think making it easier to revenge would add element to the game that would make things more fun and interesting. Would I stand to personally benefit? Absolutely not; it would harm me way more than it helped. Which is part of how I know it may actually be a pretty good idea.
May 8th, 2015
WarrenJames

Uh doctor..? The wound isn't there... you are looking at the wrong part of the patient.

I've done countless revenge attacks, and constantly scheme, plan, and wait for the right moment for those farming bases to open up, and I hit 95% of them, and have about a 80% success rate on my personal objectives (ignoring what the game thinks).

Revenge system can't be 'fixed' or 'improved' in it's current state. Yes, Revenge Attacking is awkward and sucks, tell me something I don't know. What needs fixing is how players attack, period.

Right now, people attack lower bases because they are easy and profitable, regardless of it being BORING. People attack at odd hours of the day and night because you aren't active at those times. If it is more viable to attack same TH level, and the feel of being on the defence wasn't more often than not a loss, regardless of what the game said, less people would be hiding under shields just to make things work for them. If those behaviors were common, same (or even daring low) level TH people attacked, and people weren't hyper critical of a raid robbing them of hard work, and can do a Shield when you are done for the day/night, you'd be able to revenge attack, since they are at a level you can take them on at, and active when you are active, making it easier to catch them out of Shield.

Believe me, I've been Revenge Attacking since early TH7, and now will be TH9 in several weeks. I've put a lot of thought on this issue. There is no way to 'fix' the Revenge system since there is nothing to fix It isn't broken. The gameplay is broken, and that's where the focus needs to be.
May 8th, 2015
awesomness2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenJames

Uh doctor..? The wound isn't there... you are looking at the wrong part of the patient.

I've done countless revenge attacks, and constantly scheme, plan, and wait for the right moment for those farming bases to open up, and I hit 95% of them, and have about a 80% success rate on my personal objectives (ignoring what the game thinks).

Revenge system can't be 'fixed' or 'improved' in it's current state. Yes, Revenge Attacking is awkward and sucks, tell me something I don't know. What needs fixing is how players attack, period.

Right now, people attack lower bases because they are easy and profitable, regardless of it being BORING. People attack at odd hours of the day and night because you aren't active at those times. If it is more viable to attack same TH level, and the feel of being on the defence wasn't more often than not a loss, regardless of what the game said, less people would be hiding under shields just to make things work for them. If those behaviors were common, same (or even daring low) level TH people attacked, and people weren't hyper critical of a raid robbing them of hard work, and can do a Shield when you are done for the day/night, you'd be able to revenge attack, since they are at a level you can take them on at, and active when you are active, making it easier to catch them out of Shield.

Believe me, I've been Revenge Attacking since early TH7, and now will be TH9 in several weeks. I've put a lot of thought on this issue. There is no way to 'fix' the Revenge system since there is nothing to fix It isn't broken. The gameplay is broken, and that's where the focus needs to be.

Maybe gameplay is the most important problem, but it doesn't have to be the only problem that needs addressing or the only thing that can be improved. And just because you personally have revenged a lot of people doesn't mean that gameplay wouldn't be improved if it wasn't quite so difficult to catch someone you want to revenge without a shield. I feel like you're more the exception than the rule here...that in general the revenge feature isn't used much because it is pretty hard to catch someone without a shield and have it before worth the time and effort you're putting in.
May 8th, 2015
The13thOne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Btmitchell78

Real quick. Allow us to see how much shield remains for players we try to revenge. I know, I know. Most active players deactivate their shields before letting them run out but at least we have a better chance of getting revenge. Think about a time that you really wanted revenge and you try to revenge them but find they have an active shield. (That should be easy to imagine). That's kind of a bummer every time. Now what if you are told that they have an active shield for another 5 minutes and 15 seconds? I don't know about you but I'm sticking around to give it a go.

Absolutely Agree!
May 8th, 2015
WarrenJames

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesomness2016

Maybe gameplay is the most important problem, but it doesn't have to be the only problem that needs addressing or the only thing that can be improved. And just because you personally have revenged a lot of people doesn't mean that gameplay wouldn't be improved if it wasn't quite so difficult to catch someone you want to revenge without a shield. I feel like you're more the exception than the rule here...that in general the revenge feature isn't used much because it is pretty hard to catch someone without a shield and have it before worth the time and effort you're putting in.

I know I'm the exception to the rule! And I know what it takes to get revenge to work currently, and comparing that to how a casual person plays, there is no way they can realistically revenge attack. Making changes to the current Revenge Feature to work with how gameplay is now is like breaking a simple system to work with another broken system. I can't see any useful simple fixes to revenge attack, other than fixing what kind of people you are given to attack back. Do a search, I have said I have little to no life, and usually a messed up sleep schedule. So yeah, if that's what is needed to do revenge attacks, most people are 'disqualified' right from the start.

The only way to get any 'revenge' to work, with the most common kind of attackers one faces is to just make some fake mirror village that is attackable anytime, which creates loot out of nowhere, along with needing the mirror village's defence nerfed so a lower Town Hall person has a hope of doing much to them. That is just backwards and unsatisfying!

Most every fix idea I've seen, including my own when I was a newbie, just does not give the gameplay improvement people hope it would give. I've tracked things to the attack/defence skew, and tracked that out to several other issues.

The reason why I don't see many advanced ideas on most of the common complaints is because people give up way too soon, and new people taking on the issue don't do the research to see what has been said before, and repeat the same steps that have likely been done, and without exaggerating, a hundred times or more before.

Not saying you are stupid, just saying I'm getting tired of seeing so many repeats on an issue. If you want to really tackle these things, do the research (yes, search feature isn't all that great), think about what has been said, and try to get up to speed with what has been done before so we can get some real progress on this.

"Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it."

I've been doggedly working on these issues off and on for weeks and possible months, and hit a wall. I can't go any further, because I barely have anyone else I can bounce ideas off of or get the data and feedback I need to keep going, or for someone else to take what has been worked on and take it further.

Unless you can come up with a simple idea I have missed, I'm likely going to say "no, it won't work". Not because I'm closed minded, but because I already know the ending to that story, and hearing the spoilers is never fun (especially with ones with terrible endings).

That said, I'd be be more than glad to go over what has been done, and give what I know on the issue. I don't know everything , but I know most of the common stuff and enough of a working knowledge to make educated guesses on any new ideas, or a new angle on an old idea. Figuring out and understanding systems is kind of a hobby of mine.
May 8th, 2015
awesomness2016

I thought my "make a window at the end of every shield where the player is susceptible to revenge attacks but does not appear in the multiplayer matching queue" was fairly simple, workable, and would lead to revenge being a somewhat more useful feature, and giving at least a rough estimate of when a shield would run out could prove useful too.

Or what if the Revenge button turned green for any players that were actually available for revenge...then you could look at your revenge list and know at a glance whether or not you had someone available for revenging.
May 8th, 2015
CaptainSport

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesomness2016

I thought my "make a window at the end of every shield where the player is susceptible to revenge attacks but does not appear in the multiplayer matching queue" was fairly simple, workable, and would lead to revenge being a somewhat more useful feature, and giving at least a rough estimate of when a shield would run out could prove useful too.

Or what if the Revenge button turned green for any players that were actually available for revenge...then you could look at your revenge list and know at a glance whether or not you had someone available for revenging.

Bold part is ruled out.

I don't like this idea. What if i boost barracks and go on 40 farming raids? Will I get revenged 40 times under a shield? IMO revenge is fine the way it is now.
May 8th, 2015
WarrenJames

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesomness2016

I thought my "make a window at the end of every shield where the player is susceptible to revenge attacks but does not appear in the multiplayer matching queue" was fairly simple, workable, and would lead to revenge being a somewhat more useful feature, and giving at least a rough estimate of when a shield would run out could prove useful too.

You still have the issue of people being unable to attack back if they are the usual one Town Hall level higher than the defender. Plus getting an optimized window of opportunity would be a nightmare to balance. Even if it was 2-3 hours, that means people would have to obsessively watch thier game, and build an army fast before someone else hits. Obsessively checking is not a fun gameplay mechanic.

With the window of opportunity at the end of a Shield, you have the same issue of the target being slammed right after they get out of thier Shield, denying others of the chance to attack.

Also, a common idea is attacking under when someone should normally have a Shield, which sets a very very messy precedent that I can't see Supercell managing, let alone willing take on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesomness2016

Or what if the Revenge button turned green for any players that were actually available for revenge...then you could look at your revenge list and know at a glance whether or not you had someone available for revenging.

That is a ruled out idea :(

(There are so many wrong ways to go that it isn't remotely funny. And it is made even less 'fun' seeing those say wrong directions being repeated. ;_; )
May 8th, 2015
awesomness2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainSport

Bold part is ruled out.

I don't like this idea. What if i boost barracks and go on 40 farming raids? Will I get revenged 40 times under a shield? IMO revenge is fine the way it is now.

ugh...both of you..NO, THAT IS NOT RULED OUT.

What is ruled out is a button that shows a player's online status. This is not that. This is simply an at-a-glance way for you to know who is currently available for revenge...which you can already figure out in the current system by actually clicking revenge (assuming you're willing to break any shield you might have on the off chance a revenge is actually available).

And captainsport, you're totally misunderstanding the concept....the shield functions exactly the same way as it does now. The only difference would be a small period at the end of your shield where your village is available for attack ONLY to players who you have previously attacked and have yet to revenge you (but not available to just anyone in the multiplayer matching). As soon as you get successfully attacked, you'd get a new shield, just like you do now.
May 8th, 2015
WarrenJames

"*Revenge list indicate online/shielded or currently attackable without having to click each person’s button"

My newbie thread I believe had something similar, so yeah, ruled out :(

Unless I'm misreading something, which has happened more than a few times, (even with my last post!).
May 8th, 2015
CaptainSport

Quote:

Originally Posted by awesomness2016

ugh...both of you..NO, THAT IS NOT RULED OUT.

What is ruled out is a button that shows a player's online status. This is not that. This is simply an at-a-glance way for you to know who is currently available for revenge...which you can already figure out in the current system by actually clicking revenge (assuming you're willing to break any shield you might have on the off chance a revenge is actually available).

And captainsport, you're totally misunderstanding the concept....the shield functions exactly the same way as it does now. The only difference would be a small period at the end of your shield where your village is available for attack ONLY to players who you have previously attacked and have yet to revenge you (but not available to just anyone in the multiplayer matching). As soon as you get successfully attacked, you'd get a new shield, just like you do now.

Graphical Interface Related:
*Separate tab in chat for troop requests
*Revenge list indicate online/shielded or currently attackable without having to click each person’s button
*Ability to hide certain attacks in battle logs
*Show loot/trophies which were available on battle logs in addition to what was earned
*When revenge used – defense log includes original attack results (resources/trophies/%/stars)
*Modify Att/Def Won stat to include losses as well, example: Attacks: 38/12 Defenses: 3/12
*Add comma or space at thousands space in ALL places: Upgrade buttons, spell/troop buttons, shop, etc.
*Add a counter when all builders are busy to indicate when first one will be free
*Allow iOS Device battery indicator icon to be displayed while in-game
*Upgrade menu listing all things upgradable
*Ability to turn on white buffer lines without moving building/decoration
*Add a League Chat area

Your idea... what is the point. Yo are just extending a shield for however long for revenge attacks. People will start complaining how it isn't long enough. It doesn't fix the main point, that revenging is nearly impossible, besides adding like 30 minutes to a shield? It will still be mainly luck to dictate whether you will be revengable. Even if I make an army specific to a revenge base, it is still a low possibility I will be able to revenge them.
May 8th, 2015
WarrenJames

I think we frustrated them enough. :facepalm:

I'm going to leave this alone for awhile and check back later.

I do hope people research the topic... Would really like to make progress, rather than feeling like the 'bad guy' telling a new person "no, won't work" to every other idea a new person comes up with.

Damn it, we really need a wiki page for this ♥♥♥♥! :mad:
May 8th, 2015
awesomness2016

heh. okay, I missed that. It does seem like one of those features that doesn't really have a good reason for being ruled out though.
May 8th, 2015
Btmitchell78

It's just a little bit of information

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenJames

Uh doctor..? The wound isn't there... you are looking at the wrong part of the patient.

I've done countless revenge attacks, and constantly scheme, plan, and wait for the right moment for those farming bases to open up, and I hit 95% of them, and have about a 80% success rate on my personal objectives (ignoring what the game thinks).

Revenge system can't be 'fixed' or 'improved' in it's current state. Yes, Revenge Attacking is awkward and sucks, tell me something I don't know. What needs fixing is how players attack, period.

Right now, people attack lower bases because they are easy and profitable, regardless of it being BORING. People attack at odd hours of the day and night because you aren't active at those times. If it is more viable to attack same TH level, and the feel of being on the defence wasn't more often than not a loss, regardless of what the game said, less people would be hiding under shields just to make things work for them. If those behaviors were common, same (or even daring low) level TH people attacked, and people weren't hyper critical of a raid robbing them of hard work, and can do a Shield when you are done for the day/night, you'd be able to revenge attack, since they are at a level you can take them on at, and active when you are active, making it easier to catch them out of Shield.

Believe me, I've been Revenge Attacking since early TH7, and now will be TH9 in several weeks. I've put a lot of thought on this issue. There is no way to 'fix' the Revenge system since there is nothing to fix It isn't broken. The gameplay is broken, and that's where the focus needs to be.

I never said I was a doctor. Lol! This is just a tiny bit of information that everyone could find useful. Rather than tapping revenge strategically over and over for however long. You simply see how long their shield is on around the revenge button or after you click it. its not something that fixes a problem it just adds a feature.
May 9th, 2015
WarrenJames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Btmitchell78

I never said I was a doctor. Lol! This is just a tiny bit of information that everyone could find useful. Rather than tapping revenge strategically over and over for however long. You simply see how long their shield is on around the revenge button or after you click it. its not something that fixes a problem it just adds a feature.

Sometimes I get silly with comments. Either have to joke around a bit, or be some bitter forum goer... and I'm too stubborn to let myself be bitter for very long. :p

I argued over something that didn't require constant clicking, but there is some gameplay reason for it. One angle I tried was to sell the feature was as a way to reduce server load, but.. well, worked as well as any other idea posed (which of course was "didn't work at all").

Oh well...
...
Now that my mood is ruined from what I thought was a DE secure base being raided, I'm plotting a trophy dropping, DE zap and drill snipe (and other trollings of opportunity) revenge attack on thier gem boosted drills and very full DE storage to thumb my nose at thier efforts. Though they did have an ingenious way of taking out CC troops with a Valkyrie, which I'll steal that idea from them as well.
...
I will have my revenge.