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Anybody with the 'new' flag, having recently joined the clan, cannot see the traps, teslas, or cc troops in other clan members war bases.
I am in a clan that wars constantly, so there is never a safe time to accept new members. Anybody could be a spy from our opponent, and could be taking screen shots of all our bases. With the above idea, they wouldn't have access to that information until after the war is over.
Do a search before you post.
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...vent-war-spies
I think it's a part of clan's tactics etc... and if the clan leaders are smart, they will not accept the player.
But if these changes... :
War spectators with status "new" can't see war base traps, CC troops... but "new" members participating in CW can see it.
Then it should work :)
I did the post you refer to. I am revisiting the idea. Also, on my computer there is no option for search in forum tools for some reason.
How can a clan that wars 24/7 accomplish this? Never accept anybody unless they are recruited from global or outside of the game?Quote:
Originally Posted by GameSketcher
Not having a search function is a more valid reason to start a new thread than revisiting an old idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyhook
Especially when the thread chases done something which is not really a problem.
and what about those legitimate spectators monitoring things giving tactical advice etc....Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyhook
may stop spying but limits overall clan participation.
Besides Supercell do not object nor do they condone the act of spying, but they do accept it has become a part of the war. There are many that enjoy the act of spying may even find it thrilling, you take that away from them supercell risk losing a significant portion of a fan base and revenue etc.
This would only apply to spectators who are new to the clan. Others would not be 'new' members, and hence would be able to see the bases. If that was really that important, then they could give the elders/leaders the ability to remove the 'new' flag from the member, but I doubt this would be much of an issue. Spectators could still give advice and participate without seeing all the hidden structures.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironagedave
If people don't like this solution, how about allowing each clan member to choose on his war base if his hidden structures will be visible to clan members or not?
People who want to say supercell shouldn't have to babysit, etc, I would argue that supercell is the one showing everybody where my hidden structures are. I am asking them to cut it out. ;-)
This will likely become even more of an issue since the new update has attempted to limit sandboxing ability. Supercell made it so all the hidden structures and cc troops are not transmitted from the server until the attack button is pressed, thereby scouting and visiting bases does not allow sandbox to have that info. I salute SC for doing this. But I expect they will change the mod so that sandboxers can add this information themselves (tell the mod what is in the cc, and place the traps/teslas before sandboxing the raid). Spying will become even more prevalent.
They should be punished because some clans don't want to have to deal with managing membership. DUH Dave. It only makes sense!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ironagedave
Actually if you have a need to constantly recruit that means you have guys leaving constantly. That is in fact your bigger problem than a few spies sneaking in here and there. I do think you need to look at those other problems and figure out to bring more stability. No matter what reason you think for a revolving door, in the end it is not good for a clans war strength.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyhook
Also SCs position on spying is that it is part of the game, and fair to do. That leaves it to you to have your clan running in a way to not get burned by them. (Or decide you don't really care if they spy or not and just stop worrying about it. This is a very popular approach used successfully by many clans) Another good strategy if you do put a lot of stock in what they get to see 9and apparently opponent does too) then put out decoy bases to show them all wrong stuff. Then enjoy watching them make mistakes later.
With all that said the suggestion itself still has merit. Since SCs policy is that it is fair this is not a request to ban it, just a request for a tool for a guy to work with as he deals with it himself like SC expects him too.
I think for it to work the New designation should be assigned to everyone new but not go away on its own, instead 'member' becomes a rank that a person gets promoted to. There are no differences in powers that member and new have. Just that member can see normally while new is restricted.
Note - Those of us that like to use decoys are not put out of business by this. In fact it will be more fun as you pretend to allow yourself to be sweet talked into making a guy member. (Like if he tells you he wants to review nd see where he can help, but is really a spy and you know that darn well but why tell him you know)
My GOD, another Spy post...
Is it that hard to look at the names of the people asking to join the clan, and looking at your opponent and seeing if that name is on there?
Again, I am going to ask, has anyone lost a war because a spy came in and got SO MUCH valuable information that is turned the tides?
Bull. Whether or not you can search or not you are the author of other threads on this so there is no way you can say you don't know about them,Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyhook
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...vent-war-spies
Spamming the forum is never cool, there are no exceptions to this basic truth. No idea is so good that it should be spammed. In fact any idea that needs to be spammed just to be kept alive is being shown to not be as good as its author thinks it is.
This makes a lot of incorrect assumptions, and doesn't answer the question. Our clan is very stable, but we don't have 50 members. We have been around 30 for over a year. But we are not opposed to adding good warriors. So I ask again, when we get a request to join our clan, let's say a level 105 TH10 with good war stars and troops, do we accept? Players like this don't show up on global to be recruited often, but our clan is a good one, and we frequently get requests like this. Unfortunately, they sometimes end up being spies, likely second accounts of our opposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by rwelshjr
yes because a level 105+ probably wouldnt lower himself to being a spy for starters.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyhook
If spies are a problem in your clan, you are not a good leader or in a poor clan. If your clan loses after a spy has infiltrated your clan, you were, 99.9% going to lose anyways.
Not an assumption and in fact spot on. Your earlier statements (you said you can't close your clan because you have to always recruit and if you are staying at 30 while you do this you are losing guys too) give away that your clan is not stable. Not knowing how to make your clan run smoothly you may struggle to even picture it. Even though I supported your idea its still clear that your clan has deeper issues and if SC implemented this you will still struggle with the revolving door.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyhook
If I am wrong then just close your clan like the man told you earlier. it was smart advice you were rejecting.
Nope, happens a lot. Many people play 2 accounts. So no, you can't just check the name to prevent the spying. It's a different account that is not involved in the war.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironagedave
Let me make my point another way. If supercell wants traps and teslas to be hidden, then they should be hidden. Why are they showing my hidden structures to everybody? Cut it out.
I find it funny that nobody has actually answered the question: How is a 24/7 warring clan to prevent spies? They keep saying it shouldn't matter, you would lose anyway, blah, blah, blah. <-------Irrelevant. Answer the question.
Actually they did answer it. Close the clan. But because of your clans bigger problems you cant see doing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyhook
This guy wants to prevent spying while others out there want it to be legal and even be included in perks or with levels. Lol
My answer to your question as to how to prevent spying on constant warring clans (including the conditions you gave) is that you cant stop it. You say you're a good clan, probably means that even if all your opponents know where all your traps are, they would still need to have the skills to 3star your base, and whatever condition the bases are, you would probably be able to get good scores and still beat the opposition.
I know its a definite advantage for them knowing where your traps are, ive seen spectacular defenses with traps alone, but then again, thats a rare occurence. Most of the time traps dont really matter. And some of them can be obviously seen due to base build. And even if they know where they are, their troops cant be fully controlled so some of them will still activate your traps if they're placed deep in your base.
In the end you just have to trust people. Or maybe the closest thing to do is to only accept high level players since the chance of that guy being a spy is less than if its a th5 or th6. Ive said it here and ill say it again, i hate cheeting. I hate every form of it and if those guys want to cheet, let them. Youre better than them so dont let it get to you. Just destroy them yeah!
I'm a spy in the house of love
[I really like spying cos it's fun and thrilling]
I know the dream that you're dreaming of
[please supercell prevent spying completely]
I know the word that you long to hear
[yes we will but 1 time only on April 1st]
I know your deepest secret fear
[that your gonna lose due to spying]
I know everything, everything you do
[I know your traps, your clan castle troops and your troop builds]
Everywhere you go, everyone you know
[well maybe not the first but I know everything their needs to know about your clanmates]
Option One:
Close Clan
(note: If closing your clan is not an option because you have this insatiable desire to continually grow your clan, you need to weight the pros and cons of this decision. Is spying a big enough issue that closing you clan will be overall beneficial, or is spying not that big of an issue that keeping your clan open is still preferable)
Option Two:
Invite Only
(note: This allows people who "want" to join the clan need to be accepted by a co or leader. This will allow at least a bit of time to look at the characters profile. HINT 1, if they have donated significant amounts of troops in this season, they have likely been in a stable clan. HINT 2, if their star wars is comparable to someone in your own clan with a similar level, they have likely been in a stable clan for a long period of time. HINT 3, check the other teams war army to make sure that person's name isn't in there)
So you have determined that Spying is a HUGE problem but not HUGE enough to set your clan to invite. Then you have made your decision that growing your clan is more important than the potential of your clan being spied on.
So you have determined that Spying is a HUGE problem and have set your clan to invite only. In these circumstances, it would be advisable to not allow anyone in during the actual war day, but instead wait (what?!? Wait, but we need dem members NOW!) and in between wars, after war day is done. Go through and accept everyone into your clan, and then start the next war.
Spying is only a problem if YOU allow it to be. If you need to chose between allowing spies in your clan to grow your clan, or growing your clan more slowly and carefully, that is a decision YOU are making. SC doesn't need to change the game to accommodate how YOU think the game should be played.
The End
I think this should be a sticky.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneHed13
Just want to point out this is an ideas forum, created by supercell. The whole idea is to suggest ways that SC can change the game to make it better based on our opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneHed13
This is my opinion.
The end.XD
The point of an ideas forum is for players of the game to discuss the brought up ideas to determine if the ideas are popular, overpowered, good, bad etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyhook
Your idea is not popular, bad.
The End XD
and this is supercells opinion which is the one that countsQuote:
Originally Posted by jonnyhook
http://supercell.helpshift.com/a/cla...829;♥ing
So your opinion is the majority opinion? Why are you so opposed to put a simple solution in place that prevents spying? Obviously, you are a war spy and don't want to lose your inside information that helps you win wars. I have an ethical problem with spying in this manner, because it is not part of the game, but a loophole that is being exploited. Just as I would like to see sandbox eliminated, and am happy that it has been seriously nerfed with the recent update, I would like to see spying eliminated. Let's play on a level playing field. Or can you not handle that?Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneHed13
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyhook
"So your opinion is the majority opinion?"
No, looking at this thread alone (not counting the hundreds of other ones) how many people not counting myself talked about how good of an idea this is? I counted 0 in full support. It can be assumed that the people who viewed the post and didn't post aren't grinding at the bit for this to be implemented.
"Why are you so opposed to put a simple solution in place that prevents spying? Obviously you are a war spy and don't want to lose your inside information that helps you win wars."
I have never spied and nobody in my clan has ever spied. We accept other teams spies to make fun of them and tell them how they are going to get destroyed.
The reason we don't spy is because it provides MINIMUM benefit to the spying clan, and we assume most clans put in place the SIMPLE measures already available to prevent us from doing it.
"Let's play on a level playing field. Or can you not handle that?"
You have just as much chance to "spy" on an opponent as anyone else does, AKA Level Playing field. If you have an ethical problem with spying that that is something you should really take some time and do some soul searching about.
What gets me is that you have this perspective that anyone who doesn't agree with me must be a spy and that isn't the case. I think it is a useless addition to a problem that only people who allow the problem to happen have. I am against a lightning rod but I don't zap.
I disagree with your opinion, you have lots of things you can do to stop this, but you aren't, instead you are asking for the game to be changed to accommodate your play style. You say it isn't part of the game, but it is! SC has talked about it, they know about it, they are allowing it, ergo, it is part of the game.
I am already doing the things suggested to avoid spying, and I find it annoying and feels it detracts from the game. Quit making assumptions. You come across as very snarky and angry. It's just an idea...posted to an ideas forum...chillQuote:
Originally Posted by ShaneHed13
Can you post a link to where SC commented on spying? I wasn't aware they had done this and would like to read it.
Have you seen the other thread(s)? This is one of the few times where I think a clean start is needed. Don't need all the drama spam on most of those old threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by edomingox
:facepalm: Duh! I forgot about the 'new' status. Yeah, even better! Sure there is a small problem with brand new clans, but wouldn't they be all warring anyway? So not much an issue there. Love it. SC, code this please!Quote:
Originally Posted by GameSketcher
It is true that spying benifts are questionable. Given the new anti-mod-hax feature, there maybe more spying going on now.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaneHed13
Last one I was in, I deleted most of my posts because I was trying to talk logic into a buttburt forum goer because they didn't like my answer when I first replied to them. They took it personally, and I was boredly BAM raiding villages for gold while doing off the cuff replies, not realizing they were being antagonistic until it was too late, because they wanted to 'win an internet argument'. (Spoiler: both sides lose, always, in some way or another)Quote:
Originally Posted by rwelshjr
Actually, a mod should make thier own sticky of this, along with other issues. Already this thread is bloated with drama.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironagedave
This issue is something people love to hate, and it will not die until something is done in-game about it.
Regardless of spying's effectiveness, it is the perception of the players that gives this thing the severity it has.
Because limiting gameplay to restrict a few players who aren't really causing a problem restricts how the rest of us can play. Especially the most helpful players in the game who move between clans daily visiting friends, helping feeder/sister clans, sharing gameplay knowledge and donating troops they otherwise would not otherwise have access too. The reason we are opposed to it is because it fixes a problem that doesn't need fixing. Fixing things that aren't broken is a good way to break them.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyhook
If you slog through the thread from near the start, you'll see a simple fix that barely restricts anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by iceageg
And it does need fixing. We can't go around telling people that spying is not reliable, because the common perception of it that it is, they feel violated, and the current methods of blocking it aren't to easy for new players to fully take advantage of right off the bat.
Much of the game is designed to be easy to use and understand without needing manuals or instructions. This spy issue is not easy to understand for a newbie. Not saying it is hard, let alone impossible, to understand and compensate for, but it goes against the standard flow of the game.
As someone with some familiarity with computer coding (enough to be dangerous), the work required to fix this is disgustingly easy.
Yet, people go on and on, and put in more effort arguing over it than it would take a SC coder to block it, and with insignificant consequences. I bet you the regular forum goers here individual, have put in 100x more effort frivolously arguing over this, than it would take a SC coder to put in the simple block.
Put in the block and kill this damn drama already.
i think this is a great idea and i think it helps out. our clan is growing slowly but surely but not accepting members during war is slowing down growth.
I did only skim through it and saw the normal complaints, normal answers, and normal temper tantrum style refusal to accept that those answers do work every day for most successful clans. So I quickly skimmed through to the last page. If there is a good functional/original idea that does not punish me for having friends then I am all for it. My only hesitation would be spending developer time on something that can already be handled instead of updates that are long overdue that would benefit us all. Until then the OP really can do what the rest of us do with great success.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
Thumbs up if there is an original functional idea buried in here.
I quoted this before, and had a ":facepalm: Ahh! Of course!" moment. (or I came up/across it before and forgot it horribly... but doubt it)Quote:
Originally Posted by GameSketcher
Before I was thinking some stat or flag had to be added, but there is already a stat for 'new' members.
Clan hoppers, new clan members, and new clans will have some hang ups with this, but the vast majority will never have any problem with this.
'New' status goes away after a given time; and if the coder wants to be 'fancy', they can shorten the anti-spy blocking time to 12-24 hours (or even 2-6 hours) by making the function look at the 'New' status' time stamp. There has to be time related variable in the New status, either a time/date stamp, or a simple count down timer. It isn't hard to make a function call up what that data is, and if it is past a set value, the anti-spy blocking feature expires.
There are many simple solutions that don't hinder others.Quote:
Originally Posted by iceageg
Any with a 'new' flag cannot see the hidden structures. All elders can. That would allow leaders to promote a new member to bypass the 'new' flag, if they want to bypass it.
Or, let each player decide for themselves in their war base if their structures will be visible to others in the clan.
In my opinion, we are being hindered now, closing clans, limiting recruitment to certain times and certain channels only. Also, there is no way to say how much impact the spying has, and how well the proposed 'solutions' work. Wars are won or lost. Who can say if the outcome would have been different if spying was harder or impossible. I can't. Neither can anybody else, unless they happen to be in an undefeated clan.
The recent update limited this very information (teslas, cc troops, traps) to prevent their use in sandbox. Obviously, somebody believes this information is worth protecting. Soon, the mods will be changed so sandboxers can enter this information themselves, so spying will be more prevalent.
True enough. It can already easily be removed prematurely by making them elder then demoting them back again. Simple, elegant, works on existing game structure, and doesn't limit existing game play. Almost everything that a perfect idea needs. All it is lacking is urgency because . . . it can be handled already in the vast majority of scenarios. It is a good idea and I see no reason it should not be added. I just don't see it as any sort of priority.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
If this is a no-brainer fix, as what iceageg is suggesting as well, should it be added to the Petition suggestions for a new thread (data gathering) thread so it can be in the batch petition thread?
Now that the update is out and a brand new update phase is underway, it would be a good time to get this batch petition up and going, so support and magnitude of support, can be matched up and compared.
I do like this idea, but I'd rather Supercell work on different aspects of the game which would benefit everyone instead of the minority of people with this issue.
Yea. Compare it to "no default troop when nexting" . . . it couldn't be a more obvious fix but it has been on the list for over a year, possibly because there are bigger fish to fry. This being simple and elegant could fall victim to the same. Maybe it should. Both seem like an easy win though.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScavenger350
My first real petition thread [Petition] No Default Troop Selected Upon Entering Battle is still active, but it won't be for long; as I put in a set period for the poll (used as a signiture list) to stay open before it closes for good. I wanted to keep the petition list relavent to a set time period, and not be some overgrown mutant that is several month or a year old, with people's names that may not be even on the forum anymore.
If someone can make an elegant description for this anti-spy feature, then I'll put it in the batch of other small and easy to put in ideas.
Same user as the otherQuote:
Originally Posted by edomingox
This idea makes absolute sense and would be a great help for many clans. I echo another reply saying that new members participating in war should see the traps though :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyhook
Thanks for sharing the idea
I have accepted a few spies but they won with no dignity. Sometimes I'm kinda excited for new joiners so I just accept them without thinking.The Opt in and out is definitely harder now.
If you don't want spies then close the clan or don't accept during war simple
Don't accept any join requests when Preparation Day starts... OR ...change your clan setting to Closed to avoid Spies.Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyhook
What if those "New" members just wanted to give clan advises? With this idea, they can't. The best solution/s I could give to everyone is mentioned above. Good Luck!
Visited the link in your quote. I noticed that. It's the same person, though the one in the link was from 2014.Quote:
Originally Posted by GanjaSandwich
jonnyhook, you already had posted the same topic since September 23, 2014. Now you made another one to get more attention, as well as avoiding the "necro-bumping" problem. Your post, as I've said, was since 2014. In the update within a few days after Sept. 23, the feature could've been implemented. But it wasn't. This means SC didn't like this idea. Maybe next year you might post another one, which would also be ignored. If enemy Spies spying your clan is your problem, look at my first post above. Good Luck!!
When a war starts a clan can do a few things. The first thing is to just not accept invites. However if you war a lot and you still want to consider new members during wars then you could try some of the following ideas. Someone can look at the opponent clan outside the war and screenshot all the names to see whose currently in it even if they aren't in the war. This doesn't mean there aren't random alternate accounts that could join but you could hike up the trophies required to request. At the very least someone would have to have a random 2600 trophy spy account not in the clan at the start and not in the war that would spy on you. If the opponents are attacking early on and have used a significant amount of attacks it would most likely be safe to accept members after that. The spying aspect had to have been considered when wars were created. Other games put a cooldown on when you can join another clan once you leave. I've seen some whose cooldown was 24 hours, some was 6 hours. With multiple accounts this wouldn't really change anything in CoC though. It may prevent hoppers but thats about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironagedave
My clan likes to war 24/7. We're also a bit small with only around 20 members and looking to expand. We do not accept members into our clan during war time for this very reason, (spying) unless they can be validated legit, through forums basically. This makes it very difficult to recruit new members. I hope the spy problem is fixed. It's NOT a part of the game, it's cheeting. If Supercell wanted everyone to see where our traps and teslas were they would not have made them hidden. And knowing if someone has double big bombs or not makes a HUGE difference in attack strategy. Where to place your giants to avoid tesla luring. The fact that some people actually spy is digusting.
We have a poll to see the community's feelings on Spying. I hope you take the time to vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad81
A spy is a member of the enemy clan, often times a member who is not in the current war. They request to join your clan and pretend to be genuinely interested in your clan. Meanwhile, they snap pics of all your clan's war bases and post them online for all the enemy clan to see.
Lets set set aside the discussion of whether this should be permitted in war. As leader of my clan, I don't want to give new members full access to my war base. Give me the power to promote a member to elder, at which point they can have visit my base and see trap placement.
We really just want to protect from new members having the ability to spy. So let's have it so new members can't see the bomb placements. If I make you elder in the clan, u are a trusted member and I have no problems with you seeing my whole base. But if I let you in the clan 5 mins ago, why do you get to see my whole war base? Let's fix that!
Please add a feature that allows me to keep my war base private, or simply make it so you have to become a trusted member of the clan, an elder, in order to have full access to my war base