defense sucks

Probably not the best thread title, but the idea holds true. Defense blows. It's 99% of the time costly. Sometimes, more costly than the attacker even gets.
One star is considered a win. Well, you lose at the very least trophies.
Then there is the loot lost.
And traps to re arm.

Even if you win, a defense, sometimes all you protect is a few cups. But you still lose all the resources, and possibly re arm traps.

It's never a "win". The defender is always always paying.

Re think how your star system works. 2 or more stars should be considered a win, less call it a draw.

Maybe drop re arm costs for 0 stars? Give defense something to account for, other than a revenge. Which, can take days, or weeks to land.

Sry my english isn't the best...
But you definitely got the problem! A few things more. I noticed many of lvl 100 max bases with town hall nine ( I am lvl 70) which totally destroy me and my mates. The pvp system should be based on the player lvl or town hall lvl because this shows you the power of the player. I lost over 500.000 ressources in 12h! I think this is... really sad :((((

I've been banging my head on this issue off and on for months. There isn't any good solutions out there. At least, solutions that people are willing to stop and think about.

I could write a page or three listing and detailing all of the problems defence has, and what repercussions it causes in many other key features of the game.

Tempted to post a few links to threads I've made in regards to defence, but its just best to check my profile and see the list of made threads, since 95% of them are in this subforum anyway.

Two words: Defense bonus.

Problem solved imo.

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Originally Posted by clannis

Two words: Defense bonus.

Problem solved imo.

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That would defeat the purpose of farming.

Yeah, really genius.

I think the point of this is because SC doesn't want a "lazy2win" atmosphere.. It makes you forced to strike back! It also encourages players more then ever to make strong defensive layouts, and be careful how they spend their loot before they log off. Anyways, when the attacker losses, it's more often then not you're gaining more trophies then if they 3 starred your base! I pushed once and got 300+ trophies in 2 days from pure defense... Made me go from 2200 to 2500.

I don't think there's a problem with defense. If you arrange your base properly you shouldn't face these issues.

Also by making it two stars or more just makes it harder for attcakers and will cause many complaints

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Originally Posted by clannis

Two words: Defense bonus.

Problem solved imo.

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Right... :rolleyes:

What kind of bonus? How much of one? How is it earned? Is it fair? Will players like it? Does it have spinners?

If only it were that simple, if only...

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Originally Posted by Fimbo9

I don't think there's a problem with defense. If you arrange your base properly you shouldn't face these issues.

Also by making it two stars or more just makes it harder for attcakers and will cause many complaints

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Wrong direction there with the idea. Talking about making the gameplay of defence better, not just buffing defence, or something just mechanical to 'improve' defence.

We want people to punch each other's lights out, but after a few fights, boxing gloves became a good idea so good fights could be maintained.

Basicly, defence needs something to blunt the disappointment players get when raided.

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Originally Posted by Callywally

That would defeat the purpose of farming.

Yeah, really genius.

I think the point of this is because SC doesn't want a "lazy2win" atmosphere.. It makes you forced to strike back! It also encourages players more then ever to make strong defensive layouts, and be careful how they spend their loot before they log off. Anyways, when the attacker losses, it's more often then not you're gaining more trophies then if they 3 starred your base! I pushed once and got 300+ trophies in 2 days from pure defense... Made me go from 2200 to 2500.

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How so? It could defeat the purpose of farmbases, not farming itself.

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Originally Posted by WarrenJames

Right... :rolleyes:

What kind of bonus? How much of one? How is it earned? Is it fair? Will players like it? Does it have spinners?

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I was ofcourse talking about resources, a third of the league bonus should be fair perhaps.

I guess two words were too ambitious to describe my solution.

Yeah, I agree. There really is no benefit to using a base that defends your town hall other than trophies, but those are not important to most players. Maybe if there was more incentive to successfully defend, then there would be less people using farming bases, which is another complaint I see sometimes.

A loot bonus seems like the most simple solution. It would be the same amount as a loot bonus for attacking based on your league. That would at least cover the cost of the average amount of traps that get triggered (usually just skeleton traps for me). Of course if all of the traps are triggered it won't cover the cost, but if all traps are triggered them you probably didn't win the defense in the first place.

But yes, successfully defending needs to be more rewarding. The way the game is now, losing defense and getting a shield is a better outcome.

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Originally Posted by clannis

I was ofcourse talking about resources, a third of the league bonus should be fair perhaps.

I guess two words were too ambitious to describe my solution.

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:facepalm: (was hoping that wasn't the case.)
Have you even looked at threads that talked about this before? Because just giving loot to the defender isn't going to really generate the kind of improved gameplay you think you'd get.

You are grossly underestimating how to fix the enjoyability of the defence side of CoC. Like, putting a bandaid on a fractured arm, kind of underestimating.

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Originally Posted by WarrenJames

:facepalm: (was hoping that wasn't the case.)
Have you even looked at threads that talked about this before? Because just giving loot to the defender isn't going to really generate the kind of improved gameplay you think you'd get.

You are grossly underestimating how to fix the enjoyability of the defence side of CoC. Like, putting a bandaid on a fractured arm, kind of underestimating.

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More like a bandaid on a broken system then. Allright, i'm curious what your approach on the matter will be.

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Originally Posted by clannis

Two words: Defense bonus.

Problem solved imo.

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So people can drop to 400 with push bases and win 10 defenses a night in addition to collectors?

EDIT: Never mind. A third of the league bonus sounds good to me. Strong idea.

I love how so mant people are discussing this defense bonus, when, last I checked, a defense bouns is ruled out

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Originally Posted by ColonelAwesome

I love how so mant people are discussing this defense bonus, when, last I checked, a defense bouns is ruled out

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Actually...

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League Related:
* Award resource bonuses for successful defense in addition to successful attack

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can be found in the possible ideas to be added.

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And how I'd go about it?

One) Wouldn't go with giving loot to defenders, since that sounds like insurance faud, and is all around awkward to balance, and would have magically materializing money manifesting at both ends of the game. Yeah, kinda stretches common sense, huh? At most, 'give' Elixir (and Dark Elixir) to the defender based on the percentage cost of killed troop.

Two) I hardly have a clue, since no one really gives any kind of feedback on what would get them out of thier shield shell and actually let others attack. I've posed many ideas, but nothing really caught on.

What I do want, in general, is defence bonuses that make sense, and make the game more fun. I have ideas that can put some extra intuitive factors into defence strength, ideas that helps a defender go on the attack and recover loot easier, or at least sooner, and suggestions on encouraging more attacks on stronger bases, that they could fail on, for a chance for epic loot, and not rely on the [Next] button slot machine to score a loot stuffed abandoned base that cheap troops could get.

Just recently I realized in another thread that preferred trophy range, which dictates the chance of rewards and risk of being raided also needs to be looked into, since that affects defence gameplay as well. :facepalm:

So, Yeah.. I put some thought into this, but still have jack-squat to show in progress, because for the longest time, people just ignore the issue and keep on weak bases and hide under Shields (because nothing much else works!)... complaining about higher level people are beating on them, and finding loot sucks, and things are getting boring, and revenge attacks being all but useless, and... yeah you get the point.

I know this prob won't happen, but what about +1 gem for successful defenses against your town hall or higher?

Assuming that doesn't happen, what if the attacker loses a small amount of loot from each raiding loss which is given to each successful defender? How much loot would be transferred from the attacker would depend on the town hall.

Assuming those two both don't happen, what about raising the gem rewards and decreasing required defenses for the 'unbreakable' achievements? Currently you only get 50 gems for defending against 5,000 attacks, and 20 gems for 250 attacks. It should be 50 gems for 250 attacks and 200 gems for 2,000 attacks at most.

Revenges could also be made easier, with improvements such as showing online or shield statuses.

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Originally Posted by jzitovsky

I know this prob won't happen, but what about +1 gem for successful defenses against your town hall or higher?

Assuming that doesn't happen, what if the attacker loses a small amount of loot from each raiding loss which is given to each successful defender? How much loot would be transferred from the attacker would depend on the town hall.

Assuming those two both don't happen, what about raising the gem rewards and decreasing required defenses for the 'unbreakable' achievements? Currently you only get 50 gems for defending against 5,000 attacks, and 20 gems for 250 attacks. It should be 50 gems for 250 attacks and 200 gems for 2,000 attacks at most.

Revenges could also be made easier, with improvements such as showing online or shield statuses.

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Ordered in response to the post...

Would rather not go the route of bribing people to being assaulted, especially with the current skew the attacker already has with picking the best target they want.

That is kind of counter intuitive, and would be hard to add that in with everyone else used to not losing loot gold on an attack. They already pay for the army, though.. after the whole Elixir/Wall mess up, it seems like everyone has cheapened thier armies ever since.

Achievements are only good for so long. Also, changing a well established achievement now wouldn't be a good idea.

The example you give for revenge attack improvements has been ruled out. There isn't much that can be done with the revenge system, since it's failure is tied in with how players operate as a whole. Theoretically, if people attacked villages of thier own strength, and didn't do the counter intuitive setup of keeping thier Town Hall exposed so to take advantage of trophy pushers; the revenge system would actually operate better than it currently does.

I just think defense shouldn't always cost me something. Especially, if they 49%. But sometimes, those are pretty expensive defenses. And honestly, how can you call it a "win" of you don't get the th? Or a full clear?

How about, don't give the attacker anything if he doesn't 2 star, except the league bonus, at 2, give him the league and loot, at 3 give him league, loot, and cups.

Likewise, for a defense, don't move cups until the third star. Cup taxes are just unbalanced as heck right now. Let's bring that back in line. You shouldn't be getting cups anyways just farming. And they should mean something. Currently, you can snipe your way all the way to what, Crystal with a th2? Absurd.

Those ideas are going to cause some people to rage, modifying the scoring system like that. I doubt it will be changed, given how well established it is, and that there are other options out there at are less drastic.

Also, the reason Town Hall sniping is so easy is because defence sucks, which leads people to make bases with exposed Town Halls, which makes it easier for people to gain cups.

You 'solve' the defence issue, you indirectly kill off the snipers from climbing all they way up to Champion League. Not to say there aren't other ways to push, but isn't such activity, a low level Town Hall going up to Masters and Champ, seen as kind of cheap? If you want to put meaning back into the trophy score, you'll going to have to put a stop to overly easy ways to gaining them. And fixing the feel and gameplay of defence will do that, while not needing to put in punitive anti-farming-base measures.

yeah defense sucks amirite? im always losing when people attack me with good troops!!!! my defenses dont even work all they is laugh! defense sucks and deal with it 😎

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Originally Posted by matthewe

yeah defense sucks amirite? im always losing when people attack me with good troops!!!! my defenses dont even work all they is laugh! defense sucks and deal with it 😎

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Do you add anything of use, or are you just a heckler?

Because your comment just makes you sound like an ignorant newbie; and judging by your post count, you should have picked up some experience while here to disqualify you as a newbie.

Why don't you stand up in front of class and explain your stance on the issue. :)

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Originally Posted by WarrenJames

Ordered in response to the post...

Would rather not go the route of bribing people to being assaulted, especially with the current skew the attacker already has with picking the best target they want.

That is kind of counter intuitive, and would be hard to add that in with everyone else used to not losing loot gold on an attack. They already pay for the army, though.. after the whole Elixir/Wall mess up, it seems like everyone has cheapened thier armies ever since.

Achievements are only good for so long. Also, changing a well established achievement now wouldn't be a good idea.

The example you give for revenge attack improvements has been ruled out. There isn't much that can be done with the revenge system, since it's failure is tied in with how players operate as a whole. Theoretically, if people attacked villages of thier own strength, and didn't do the counter intuitive setup of keeping thier Town Hall exposed so to take advantage of trophy pushers; the revenge system would actually operate better than it currently does.

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Achievements can be good for quite a while, especially when its a big achievement promising a big payoff. I think modifying the defense achievement is the most reasonable.