Breaking Loot Penality argument

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Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

Here's the thing people like to ignore. If you're hitting TH7&8 while at TH7, you're farming slower than a TH8, because you can spend less troop raiding the same bases to gain more loot per hour. TH6 provides minimal loot for TH7 due to lvl 10 collectors and 180k loot cap + 0 DE

As a TH8, if you're hitting mostly TH8&9, you're wasting your time, because lvl 6 troops are more time efficient to farm the same amount of loot. TH7 provides minimal loot for any decent TH8, because of lvl 11 collectors and 1 drill

TH9 is where the farming starts to become better, with TH8 having lvl 12 collectors and 2 drills, it makes farming them very profitable. Furthermore, the maxest TH8 with anti-giant base cannot stop a skilled TH9 with gibarch, making maxing those defenses futile. Want to know to funny thing? Those TH9s with TH7 defenses, but TH9 amount + 4 storages are far harder and less profitable to raid than any maxed TH8 out there.

Defenses? TH9 can dump all loot into walls, making losing any loot unlikely, because you have weak defenses which cost far less and easily farmed in one session. When you start working on expensive upgrades, you'll already have maxed TH8 defenses with TH9 amount, making you far harder to raid unless from a TH10

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True.
Ok, elixir it's very needed on the start of th9, won't have no one to walls, but, for a th7 farm another full collector th7 to walls he will get 450k gold (2 walls) and waste 450 elixir.
But, if a th9 farm a th7 (there's no need for it, but IF he do) with full collectors, he will get 225k each and don't waste anything, it is 450k resourses on walls. Haven't loses

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Originally Posted by Gabrielalbino

I'm telling about smart rushers, and this kind of rusher dint gem th, it means that, if the person could farm for upgrade the th, he can do it again for troops.

Why farm th6? Lvl 10 collectors, 250k loot cap from storages..
instead can farm th8, or 9, for more resourses in less time.

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I agree, if you can farm and hold enough gold to upgrade your TH, you can repeat the process with elixir. Especially if you keep 1 builder free so you never show much gold. Before TH8, people will almost never raid you for elixir unless you have gold or de.

Farming down 1 TH is a lot easier and hence often more profitable. Plus you don't have to do the mental work of checking defensive levels. Once you know loot is good and the TH is one level down you can start attacking if going with Gibarch. You will get in.

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Originally Posted by Gabrielalbino

I'm telling about smart rushers, and this kind of rusher dint gem th, it means that, if the person could farm for upgrade the th, he can do it again for troops.

Why farm th6? Lvl 10 collectors, 250k loot cap from storages..
instead can farm th8, or 9, for more resourses in less time.

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Because staying at TH7 lets you farm TH6's and ABOVE. Just because you're TH7 doesnt mean you cant Barch lvl 12 collectors. IF you go TH8, you miss out on 50% of the loot from TH6 collector bases and 10% from TH7 collector bases which is significant. The higher TH you are, the harder it is to find profitable collector bases simply because higher TH players in general check their bases more often.

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Originally Posted by IHateWalls

Because staying at TH7 lets you farm TH6's and ABOVE. Just because you're TH7 doesnt mean you cant Barch lvl 12 collectors. IF you go TH8, you miss out on 50% of the loot from TH6 collector bases and 10% from TH7 collector bases which is significant. The higher TH you are, the harder it is to find profitable collector bases simply because higher TH players in general check their bases more often.

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Not really, th7 can't farm th6 and above, 50% loot penality + few low levels collectors turns th5 "unfarmable", once th5 has 5 lvl 10 of each colectors, so, it produces 12500 of both resoures per hour (5*2500), in 12 hours (minimum shield) it will produces 150k both, do, u can farm 50% of this value, it is 75k, but, with the loot penality this value goes for 37.5k of each resourses from a collector Raid on th5, but, the coast of a barch on a th7 (100 barbs and 100 archs lvl 4), assuming that you don't use spells, it's 24k elixir, it gives u a awesome loot of 13.5k elixir per raid. So, for u get giants to lvl 4 (per example), u'll need just 57 raids xD
Otherside, if u try farm a th8 with your troops lvl 4, a single shot of the mortar will arruin your raid, but if u have lvl 5 troops, will get harder to kill em, and the fact that a th8 have 6xlvl 12 collectors, producing 21k hour, 252k for shield, u can farm 126k each, without loot penality, will let u get u lvl 4 giant in 6 raids. Awesome, han?!

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Originally Posted by Gabrielalbino

Not really, th7 can't farm th6 and above, 50% loot penality + few low levels collectors turns th5 "unfarmable", once th5 has 5 lvl 10 of each colectors, so, it produces 12500 of both resoures per hour (5*2500), in 12 hours (minimum shield) it will produces 150k both, do, u can farm 50% of this value, it is 75k, but, with the loot penality this value goes for 37.5k of each resourses from a collector Raid on th5, but, the coast of a barch on a th7 (100 barbs and 100 archs lvl 4), assuming that you don't use spells, it's 24k elixir, it gives u a awesome loot of 13.5k elixir per raid. So, for u get giants to lvl 4 (per example), u'll need just 57 raids xD
Otherside, if u try farm a th8 with your troops lvl 4, a single shot of the mortar will arruin your raid, but if u have lvl 5 troops, will get harder to kill em, and the fact that a th8 have 6xlvl 12 collectors, producing 21k hour, 252k for shield, u can farm 126k each, without loot penality, will let u get u lvl 4 giant in 6 raids. Awesome, han?!

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Why are you talking about TH5's? I never mentioned TH5's. Of course TH7's will have a hard time farming TH5's BECAUSE of the loot penalty the same way TH8's will have a harder time farming TH6's. If anything, you're just demolishing your own assertion. The calculations you showed were unfair. You compared the loot gained from a TH7 v TH5 situation opposed to a TH8 v TH8 situation which skewed the numbers in your favor.

A single shot of a max TH8 mortar does not 1 shot lvl 4 Barbs. They can 1 shot lvl 4 Archers but they 1 shot Lvl 5/6 archers anyways. The purpose of Barbs in Barch is to tank the splash damage for the archers. If the collectors are on the outside, lvl 4 Barch can do just as well as lvl 5 Barch. Yes, sometimes you do need lvl 5 Barch to take 100% of the loot vs ~85% from collectors but the ability to raid TH6's far outweighs this minor disadvantage.

Loot penalty is not really a factor until TH9 as long as you've upgraded troops accordingly. Even at TH9 loot penalty is easily overcome with league bonus. You'll have less TH levels to choose from when raiding as you move up the ladder, but you'll be getting juicier targets, take advantage of this and you won't even notice the penalty in the first place. The key though is still maxing your troops levels. A popgun offense is not even going to scratch the front door of the bases you'll face if you move too high too fast.

Even at th10 loot is fine for me. Ill be posting about 60 attack logs to my thread today. There is a couple of 400,000 and 300,000 raids, many 200,000 raids and some 100,000 raids because i raided horribly haha. Even then, almost 20 days into Th10 im not doing bad and im not even so active now.

What loot penalty does is protect lower ths from bullies, but loot will always be there, be it in storages or high league bonuses.

Of course there will be loot but it is harder to come by the higher lvl your TH is. There is a reason why 95% of the top farmers do not blatantly upgrade their TH before finishing troops/wall upgrades.

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Originally Posted by IHateWalls

Why are you talking about TH5's? I never mentioned TH5's. Of course TH7's will have a hard time farming TH5's BECAUSE of the loot penalty the same way TH8's will have a harder time farming TH6's. If anything, you're just demolishing your own assertion. The calculations you showed were unfair. You compared the loot gained from a TH7 v TH5 situation opposed to a TH8 v TH8 situation which skewed the numbers in your favor.

A single shot of a max TH8 mortar does not 1 shot lvl 4 Barbs. They can 1 shot lvl 4 Archers but they 1 shot Lvl 5/6 archers anyways. The purpose of Barbs in Barch is to tank the splash damage for the archers. If the collectors are on the outside, lvl 4 Barch can do just as well as lvl 5 Barch. Yes, sometimes you do need lvl 5 Barch to take 100% of the loot vs ~85% from collectors but the ability to raid TH6's far outweighs this minor disadvantage.

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Originally Posted by IHateWalls

Of course there will be loot but it is harder to come by the higher lvl your TH is. There is a reason why 95% of the top farmers do not blatantly upgrade their TH before finishing troops/wall upgrades.

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That's the way. TH7 don't need farm th5 as much as th9 don't need to farm th7, lvl 12 collectors means more loot for storages raid and lvl 6 barbs means more possibility for raids (bad protected storages per example
Another fact is the league bonus, lvl 4 troops can't 100% a th9 with a regular layout, lvl 6 can, this is +35k/50k/65k each resourse + cups on crystal , place where th7 can't stay barching without lose many hours sniping for get the farming cups losts and dont fall down leagues.

TH9 is THE BEST place for farming. You can run collector raids on TH8 - 10 and your farming army is basically as strong as at TH10. (I'm personally still don't have the lvl 7 archers and can't see the need for them).
The amount of abandoned TH8 is huge as this is the first time the game became serious. Just a warning - don't rush to TH10, as this is where the loot penalty will get you.