TH #.5 issue. Fix it.

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Originally Posted by DrakelBraknid

Do you have inferno towers, xbows and at least a lvl 1 of every defensive building possible? My guess is yes. Just b/c you rushed every other defense doesn't guarantee you're matched against lower TH's. These manipulators purposely leave out xbows, infernos, and other defensive buildings to ensure they are matched with lower levels.....so actually I do know what I'm talking about.

Maybe next time you can actually read and attempt to understand the OP before sharing your opinion...

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So what's you point? Someone who leaves out valuable defensive buildings is easily crushed by lower TH level attacks. I still get beat sometimes by a smart TH8 attacking me because my stuff is so low level. And that's *with* IT's and XBows.

And while you're whining, why not whine about the fact that I can dump level 6 wizards into a TH6's clan castle and wreck level 1 giants that try to attack him? It's part of the game that offensive players have some advantages, defensive players have others, and you can decide where inbetween you want to design your base. Deal with it.

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Originally Posted by DrakelBraknid

The issue is manipulating the system so that a TH 9 or 10 with max troops is matched to a TH7 as an equivalent base. I don't care what you upgrade first, but a 10 with max troops matched against a 7 is a problem.

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This right here is the crux of the "problem", and one that we don't fully understand. But we have some anecdotal evidence that the problem is there. Not for .5 accounts, but for defenseless or nearly defenseless accounts.

Let's try a couple examples. I'll keep the clan small, 10v10.

In the first example, we'll use clans with a wide variety of TH levels. In order to make the effect visible, player for player, I'll throw 2 defenseless accounts in. The first clan has 10 accounts: two each of TH6 through TH10. However, one of the TH10's, and one of the TH9's, are defenseless. Let's call them A through J, with the defenseless accounts being B and D. (A is the strongest, J is the weakest.)

Rank	Clan #1	TH	Clan #2	TH
1	A	10	A	10
2	C	9	B	9
3	E	8	C	9
4	F	8	D	8
5	G	7	E	8
6	H	7	F	7
7	I	6	G	7
8	J	6	H	7
9	B	10	I	6
10	D	9	J	6

In this case, B and D clearly got very easy matchups. A TH10 matched against a TH6?

But look at everyone else. Half the players got matched with someone a TH level above them. How did this happen? Well, under the hood, the game is treating that defenseless TH10 (essentially a TH1 defensively) as a TH6 or TH7 or something like that, for matchmaking. They might have been "matched" on the map with a TH6, but in reality, they probably pulled in something between a TH6 and a TH8, give or take. Remember, your mirror on the map isn't necessarily who you were being matched against for finding an enemy clan.

Personally, I'd be ♥♥♥♥♥♥ if these guys were in my clan, and my mid-TH8 got matched against a maxed TH8 or an early TH9 because of it. Of course, I'd compensate by attacking down 1 or 2 spots on the map. (Not that my clan is really big about attacking your mirror, but we tend to do it for our first attack anyway, unless we have an obvious reason to attack up or down, like my max TH7 being matched against someone with level 3 AD's. Um, yeah, I'm attacking that early TH8 3 spots above me, thank you very much...)



Now a more realistic example. Clan #1 has two each of TH8, TH8.5, TH9, TH9.5, and TH10. Here, a TH8.5 means max TH9 offense with max TH8 defense.

Here, with the matchup being close, the TH10's will probably draw TH10's, the 9's will get 9's, and the 8's will get 8's.

Those 9.5's will likely draw early-mid TH10's. Those TH10's will have a slightly weaker offense (maybe not 240 troop space yet, maybe no freeze spell, or only a low level freeze, maybe only a few troop upgrades complete). But they'll probably have 3 X-Bows and 2 Inferno Towers. The lack of a freeze spell isn't an issue, since the 9.5's don't have infernos. I'd call that a fair trade.

Those 8.5's will likely draw early-mid TH9's. Those TH9's will have slightly weaker offense (probably close to 220 troop space, maybe lavaloonion unlocked, witches at least for GoWiWi). They'll have a pair of X-Bow's, the 4th AD leveled at least to 4 or 5. Again, not an even matchup, but a reasonable tradeoff.



This only becomes a big deal when half your clan (or more) are .5's. When 20% (5 out of 25, 10 out of 50, etc.) are in the .5 stage, it really should be a wash. You pick up a few extra 3 star attacks, but so does the enemy clan, if they're skilled. If anything, .5's should be inflating the number of stars won per war, on both sides. That puts more pressure on both clans to use all attacks, and use them wisely. But I don't see a huge advantage being given to either side.

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Originally Posted by DrakelBraknid

Hello, CoC community. There has been an issue arising that needs to be taken note of and corrected by SuperCell.

The issue is the TH #.5 manipulation for favorable war matchups.
- For those of you unfamiliar with this concept, it has become popular for players to rush a TH (except for troop levels) to an extreme level to gain a favorable matchup during war. For example: Last war, we had a TH7 match up against an extremely rushed TH10. The TH10 only built about half his walls, 1 air def, and a few other defenses, but had near Max Troops. The idea behind this is to manipulate matchmaking so that you can have higher level attacks to use against the other clan. They were willing to concede the 3 star against that base (just like a max TH7), however he was able to use his attacks on our TH10-9s.

I'm sure that most of you would agree this type of game manipulation is unfair and totally against the spirit of clan wars. I guess I could create a 2nd account and do the same, however, I'd just prefer that SC correct the problem and we can all move on.

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So you're basically telling that you're afraid of rushers? Quite ironic cause so many hates rushers and telling that rushers are noobs. Anyway, it's not really manipulation. You are only looking on war map which displays defensive ranking only. The offensive ranking isn't displayed at all or isn't provided by Supercell but if ever they provide it then that rusher you are talking about is definitely in higher rank way above the others. Remember, in matchmaking both offensive and defensive strength is considered.

Moreover, mirror match isn't the best strategy in war.

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Originally Posted by Xitra

How do you know how that base "with all max troops & lv 40 heroes" got ranked in the matchmaking? The position on the map is NOT the ranking for matchmaking. It's just the ranking defensively, so that (in theory) the bases get harder to attack as you move up (or easier as you move down). It tells you NOTHING about their offense. And since offense is supposedly weighted in the matchmaking, it only tells you part of the details about how they were ranked in matchmaking.

Honestly, the only way to know how .5's get weighted in matchmaking is to be in a clan of ALL .5's, and see what kind of opponents they get, war after war after war. A single war doesn't tell you much, because we already know that mismatches happen all the time. You'd need to look at dozens of wars. Only then could you get an idea of how the .5's are being ranked. And you still wouldn't know how they'd fit into a clan with a moderately wide range of TH levels (like TH8's up to TH9.5's, or TH8.5's up to TH10's).

Only Supercell knows for sure, and for all we know, they tweak the formula with every update. I suspect a lot of the people complaining about .5's just got bad matches, and blamed it on the .5 aspect, when really it was just a bad match.

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You are correct in the fact my experiences could just be bad matchups, I've seen some really bad ones either way. Some heavily in our favour - heavily against.

But the fact more and more clashers are advocating .5 mentality for upgrades to benefit wars to me is evidence enough to suggest there is a issue in matchmaking making it highly favorable.

I just hope SuperCell are seriously reviewing it and making necessary tweaks. The system has been going over a year now and we haven't seen any changes yet. Now with Clan XP on the line more clans are in the mix, and while there are ways to exploit. Be it big or small, it will happen more more than ever before.

Please explain how a TH .5 is making easier matchups. It's obvious from your sig that you are very experienced player, but it's also obvious you don't have a clue what TH .5 is, nor do about 95% of the people spewing nonsense on here all day long, including the OP.

It's a MAXED base that then focuses on offense first the next TH before upgrading defenses. Please explain how this all of a sudden creates easier opponents. Is a player required to add ITs instantly? While no one knows the matchmaking formula for sure, we do know that ITs and Xbows count for significant weight in the process. Hence, a new TH10 who is really just a TH9 with a new TH, would be pitted against much more developed TH10s that he/she has almost no hope of defeating. Not accounting for gems, it can take 6-8 weeks just to get your required offense up to snuff to attack like a TH10.

All the while, that player's war rank in matchmaking is increasing gradually to stay in line with their attacking level as a TH10.

This whole thread is a whiny rant asking SC to all of a sudden ban rushing. As another poster said, it's hilarious that supposedly skilled players are now fearful of preemies.

And just to add further to this, maxers will be benefit from this. You know what will happen with the TH .5 craze? A lot of bad players will look to it as a cheet to the system for easier matchup (which it's not), and then they'll realize that this isn't some magical method to all of a sudden start being a great attacker. They'll also not understand the concept as many here have displayed and rush their bases rather than maxing them.

Maxers will benefit with the influx of a lot of rushed bases with poor attackers.

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Originally Posted by Birdcraft

this way of gaming the system is poor sportsmanship in my clan. Can't beat up someone your own level so you work it to get matched to a weaker clan. Is winning wars really that much more important than honestly owning another clan? Seems kind of juvenile to me.

i do have to say that your number 4 guy needs to get a different base. I've seen our th8s destroy that exact one in so many wars. It's actually a pretty easy setup to destroy from what I've seen. Our th8s are all still kind of early yet too, but one of our th7s 3 starred that th 8 design last war too. She was expecting to only one star it for loot, but it fell like dominoes.

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I agree as they had 30 wins to our 2.

His is base did okay. My base did pretty good aswell but was 3 stared due to my townhall 7 defenses as an 8.

The best Clan war Army would be:

Half of the players are .5 players
Other half are maxed out players

Why?

Getting 3 Stars against a maxed out base is pretty difficult in townhall 8+
But if your offense is 1 level above it is doable (4th/5th spell, +20 Troop capacity, +AQ)

So Overall, if u have 2 th9 maxed base and 4 th8.5 players, the enemy will probably get something like 2 TH9max 2 TH8 and 2 early TH9

So position 3-6 will get 3starred by both teams, but Clan A has another 4 tries to get 2-3 stars at the first 2 positions.

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Originally Posted by AnonymousVillager

So what's you point? Someone who leaves out valuable defensive buildings is easily crushed by lower TH level attacks. I still get beat sometimes by a smart TH8 attacking me because my stuff is so low level. And that's *with* IT's and XBows.

And while you're whining, why not whine about the fact that I can dump level 6 wizards into a TH6's clan castle and wreck level 1 giants that try to attack him? It's part of the game that offensive players have some advantages, defensive players have others, and you can decide where inbetween you want to design your base. Deal with it.

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If your th6 opponents only have level 1 giants then they would be th3s? Guess I wouldn't be proud of that. I prefer to be paired against my equal. This way of playing is so childlike. "Haha I beat up a little guy! Guffaw".

Maybe sc needs to put way more weight into offense than defense. I know they did something to prevent defenseless clans from finding matches. Be nice if they gave it a tweak, as the more people that do this the less the rest of us want to play.

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Originally Posted by GanjaSandwich

I agree as they had 30 wins to our 2.

His is base did okay. My base did pretty good aswell but was 3 stared due to my townhall 7 defenses as an 8.

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that base is very common and I myself have wrecked it in the last 4 wars we have had. I would suggest not using an exact duplicate of any base you find online. And yes that base is super easy to crack. Don't know why so many people use it, but I'm not complaining. It makes my planning much more simple. Last war I almost was asleep when i attacked it. 3 stars easy. On their leader who changed his much more difficult base to that just prior to war. :facepalm: We all laughed.