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i just did a war attack and my dragons went straight to the king who was kilometers far away from them they failed the attack because they avoided the anti air defense , same for a mate's dragons; they went straight to clan troups, and avoided the Anti air defense resulting him to lose his attack also pleaaaaaaaaaase correct this matter
Nope.
Know your AI.
Troops will continue to attack heroes/cc once they have started.
They will not stop until these troops are dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hesto25
how can i explain : the king was too far away for the drags to attack him, they shouldn't have moved toward him for he was not in their radius , same thing for the troops.
how can you explain that dragons avoid troops sometimes if they're always chasing them we should just drag troops to the center and then unleash the drags to reach the TH that's none sense
Quote:
Originally Posted by napileon
1. Regular troops don't have a "radius". Their radius is the entire battlefield if you wanted to create one.
2. Dragging troops into the center would work...if your dragons were already locked onto cc troops. They won't attack if they're newly spawned, like in your example.
well they did the exact thing explained in your POINT 2 : i'm a TH9 with 409 stars, i'm not a newbie that's why i posted this no need to explain to me how to use dragonsQuote:
Originally Posted by hesto25
If you're a town hall 9, you should be using balloonion or lavaloonion.Quote:
Originally Posted by napileon
Tens of times more effective than dragons.
In addition, their defense targeting makes them more reliable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hesto25
i use gowipe , hogs and baloons that's not the POINT; this is a regular friend's th8 i attacked with
understand the matter, they went where they shouldn't that's the point. if you agree with me alright if you don't please don't bother me
IF you want to see the attack to understand better come to my clan it's SERAPI : clan lvl 3
There is a distance and trigger for a person's attacking units to go after the Heros or CC troops. Now 'too far' is not a detailed description that is helpful in figuring out this issue.
For one, dragons will always prioritize those units over base attacking. Also, nearby troops will 'notice' the other troops targeting the defender's troops, and also change targets (which is good and bad; good they help each other, bad that it may pull more of course). They are coded that way on purpose, and is a moot point to argue against. It is a valid strategy for a defender to use troops as detractions, and obviously it seems to be effective when not countered.
So the only question I have is, how far away are attacking troops from the defender's troops before they react and change targets? Go through the replays and do some rough measurements as to when you see the clear change in behavior.
Tip: Saw some attack bases using this behavior against the defender. What they do is send in a mob of troops, which then causes them to focus where the CC troops pour out, and after dispatching the CC troops, they are deeper inside the base. Someone did this with a dragon attack in war, and utterly wiped out the center where the AD were at, because they deployed opposite of the CC, and the Troops just pulled all the dragons near the center. Was a well executed attack, since CC troops can bog down dragons and mess them up.
Also, I'm a clan leader (woo go me!) so I can't just visit. Sorry :(
thanks for your answer but the problem is that 8 spots is acceptable (2 buildings far from them) ( that is the distance between the dragons and the cc troups) but for the second point dragons were 12 spots away from the king if you draw a straight line that's like 3 buildings far away from them and they chased him that's why i posted this topic i'm not crazyQuote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
You can refer to the 'spots' as 'tiles' since that is what I see in the wiki, and since we are dealing with dragons which seem to ignore grid movement, and how the game does distances in a finer resolution than tiles, movement at angles take the hypotenuse. From when I played D&D, 45° angles on a grid followed a nice shorthand of every other diagonal counted as 2 squares/tiles of movement (effectively rounding the 1.4142 distance to 1.5)
Now, the distance of the dragon that seems too far, was it reacting to the near by dragon attcking another defence unit?
The distances you seem to be talking about, seem to take into account the usual 3 × 3 title building, plus a gap for a one tile thick wall or for a trap. Remember, the distances of a building differs from corner to corner (which is about 4¼ tiles, from the corners)
At least when they chase, they always hit the haplessly wandering King, despite the movement, and what the graphics seems to show. The health bar always shows a hit when a dragon attacks.
you perfectly understood the situation, so you can understand my surprise when i saw those drags chasing the king see yaQuote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
So... huh.. it was a dragon reacting to another near by dragon's attack to the King? Or is it a sarcastic comment with 'perfectly understand the situation'? Sorry, just I read that post as meaning either or at once in my head, and need one clear meaning Lol XDQuote:
Originally Posted by napileon
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
well it was 2 drags attacking a FAR king positionned 12 grids (smallest measurement unit) so i'm really serious that you understood the situation i'm not jocking at all
Interested in seeing this attack and tied to take you up on the invitation but your clan's closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by napileon
Any troop that doesn't have a favorite target will attack heroes/CC troops if they engage
And dragons always help the other units that attacking a moving target such as cc troops, balloon skelie trap and the heroes.
Its not the distance of the king and dragons to be measured, the nearest dragon that spotted the king, and chasing it, will alert the other almost nearby dragon to tag along.
In 1 war, where my clanmate was attacked by a mass dragon strats, the dragons was just in front of the th, so undoubtly, the attacker drop a rage spell, for the dragons to attack the th and the air defense nearby. Precise spell drop, but what he didn't realized, a valkyrie was placed inside the cc, and chased after the bk that was across the battle map. The dragons, raged, fly past the th and the air defense, just to chase the valkyrie unit. Resulting only a 1 star attack instead of 3.
it's on invite nowQuote:
Originally Posted by Murgy
i can understand this case i've seen that a lot before but my case is far worse , the BK was far away and was attacking the hogs , there was 3 buildings between them , the drags weren't chasing him in the first placeQuote:
Originally Posted by OamnraML
12 tiles/squares/grids away!? Looking at my base in references, which happens to have a 12 tile section, that is rather far, even 6-8 seems pushing the agro radius. It would have to be some chain reaction of a closer dragon to pull the others in, and that would seem rare to cause that large of an effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by napileon
I'd have to see the replays to know what is going on.
Getting an invite will get you in to a closed clan... but that is kind of hard to coordinate in-game with two people that never met in-game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murgy
Any skellies trap that might pop out maybe to chase your hogs, thus resulted the dragons to chase the skellies, then chased the BK? Always dragon will be distracted by a moving target. If its not, then your case sir, is weird..Quote:
Originally Posted by napileon
No, dragon behaviour is fine. It's not very hard to learn how to control them (you have to first destroy buildings that you don't want later dragons to be drawn to). It's funny watching ten-eleven dragons dumped all at one point at one time being mostly drawn by my circle of outer buildings all they way around the outside, for a one star war victory.
No, that is not the issue the OP is asking about. Technically I guess this is a Bug and Problem forum thread, but they are asking about a very unusual dragon behavior that they found very puzzling. They are a TH9. I'm sure they have experience with how dragons normally work, and don't need to be told what they likely see as the obvious. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by George1971
Added Edit: I just saw what the OP was talking about happen to me. :saywhat: Technically, it was partly my fault for not getting more than 1 star on the war base attack, since I delayed zapping an Air Defense to keep options open, but that proved to be a mistake in hindsight. Honestly, I had no way to recover the attack, even if I did zap the Air Defense sooner.
But I wasn't expecting three of my dragons to stop thier attack, after clearing most of the CC, only for them to stop thier attack, and chase after the one barbarian that ran out the CC in the opposite direction towards Hog Riders I deployed on the other side. Dragons never reacted to the troops until close within range, then attacked, but about 8 to 12 tile distances away from dragons, one unit catches the attention of three dragons (farthest 11-12 tiles away when target change was triggered) and sends them right into the center of the base, past the CC, past the TH, past the yet to be zapped Air Defense, past the first Air Defense they were supposed to destory, past the range of two Teslas, and right into all the air traps. :facepalm: :straightface: :facepalm:
The dragon AI is now as 'smart' as a dog...
http://underscoopfire.com/wp-content...e-squirrel.jpg
Also flagged thread so this goes to the Bugs and Problem form, since this has to be a glitch. What are the odds of me, an avid and regular dragon user, just now noticing this, just when the OP, and another person in Bugs and Problem forum bring up this issue as well in such a short amount of time?
There are plenty of TH9 players who don't know stuff. The ones who bought gems. I don't know the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
I assumed that the OP was lose with the facts. How far away was the King?? When triggering the dragon?
Yes, dragons ignore ADs (they don't know ADs from huts) to chase a hero or cc troop, and that troop may be running to something on the far side, which is really bad for the dragon, slowly following, attacking nothing, being shot at.
On re-reading, I do not follow what you say happened to you, and doubt the precision of the facts from the OP. I do know about the SAM whose target is destroyed after targeting, which sees the SAM retarget even to the far side of the map. That is not a bug, but a feature, no more unrealistic than controllable balloon flight direction. Is this problem a "bug"?
Is the dragon targeting a hero or cc troop according to its past position? I.e. is it targeting normally, but with really slow, dragon-like, targeting decision making?
That is what messes up figuring out this problem, describing it sounds very close to a newbie mistake. The difference between a newbie mistake and this anomaly is magnitude. I can't remember at all seeing such a long range trigger of unit aggro in this game. The replay of my second attack clearly shows this problem. They react to the first wave of CC troops that can attack air units, and after they are wiped out, one barbarian leaves the CC and pulls most of my forces through the meat grinder. That one barbarian did more to damage my assult than any other thing in the attack. He should get the frick'n MVP award, and all he did was run away from the direction of the dragons!
After seeing the replay yesterday, It was the hogs triggering the barb king that caused the dragons to fly over and attack. This is what I would have expected to happen but Napileon thinks the dragons should have been too far away to be pulled in. What backs Napileon's case, is the base was attacked again with the same tactics only that time, the dragons didn't rush off when the barb king was triggered.
Being only a casual player I only have a basic knowledge of the pulling power of the heroes so maybe someone with an in depth knowledge of all the factors determining whether troops will challenge the heroes or not, will be able settle the matter.
Not having all the cc troops (one or two big troops) leave the cc straight away is a useful tactic. So you bury the cc deeply. It is triggered by a single hog, which dies quick. I was expecting that, so that's why I put in lots of little troops. The dragon defense is pretty ineffective anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
Am still guessing that this is an issue of delayed response to a targeting trigger.
The base was attacked before, so I knew it has one dragon and archers as filler troops. No need to spend troops to pull them out and kill them when all I need to do is aim my wave/deployment-arch in the right spot, and actually use the CC troops to pull the some of the dragons back into the center. Since it was a dragon and filler troops, I didn't have to wait for a long chain of troops to file out. I hate those because it takes several bait troops just to get them all out of the CC.Quote:
Originally Posted by George1971
That is a mistake as well newbies make. They don't keep the CC triggered long enough to have all the troops leave. Have killed many attacking giants this way as the mob of archers run out, get lured and killed, only for a few more archers and a wizard or two come out and zap the giants.
Plus, troops that cannot attack back will not leave the CC. If you have a CC filled with troops that cannot attack air troops, the air troop can actually fly over, wreck the CC, and prevent the CC from working. That last barbarian that came out only came out when something attackable was within range, which was the hog riders.
I would say, that if you are struggling with clan troops distracting dragons and getting wrecked whilst hovering over air defences, then lure. Dragons are nowhere near as OP as they used to be because all th8 are getting antidragon bases. You can't keep trying to use an old strategy the same way, use diversity in your attacks. Learn new attacks for example Dragoon, loons don't go for cc (hint hint). Hope this helps and please do not blame AI for your fails, learn to strategize and your time in CoC will be easier. I believe that the only AI you can blame is the queens.Quote:
Originally Posted by napileon
No, this does not help at all. You don't appear to have even bothered to read the discussion brought up, and only saw the first post and jumped in.Quote:
Originally Posted by alius7
Newbies not reading the Sticky Thread and post ruled out ideas do the same thing, not read what is needed.
I will only say dont use hogs with dragons (flying troops with ground). Hence no bk trigger and no dragon running crazy after him. Use max loons with dragons , they work better. Try 105 dragloon at th8.
Come on thats why we fill witches in the cc to make dragons run after their skillies
I will only say you are spaming the thread with off topic unsolicited 'help'Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay180496
Come on people, read. If you have nothing relevant to give, then don't post.
Offering attack strategies are in a different forum.
So u want me to say that dragon AI is faulty or it is a bug. No, its not. I have seen dragons running for bk 2 to 3 buldings away. It happens a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
And for cc troops my above reply fits perfect. U cant stop dragon chasing a valk or barb running after ur hogs. Here is ur biggest fault in strategy
You are missing the key point of the argument that the trigger of those wild chases are sometimes being caused at an extraordinary distance away, not about the widely accepted fact that troops chase other troops.Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay180496
It is an inconsistency. It doesn't always happen, only on some occasions, which throws off predictably, which ruins the game's fun.
You said you saw it too. Can you reproduce that and prove it is supposed to be there?
Dragons are made dumb. If they are predictable u can crush any base with them. And they will become quite overpowered.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
Arent we reading many "dragon are op" threads on the forums?
And yes i've seen it, cost me 1 or 2 battles. But my clan have clear up attacks. So it is acceptable. They are made dumb and they will act dumb.
EDIT: The chases i've seen at long distances are usually a chain reaction . Like a drag hitting bk another one coming towards him hence pullin the dragons behind him
You are sidestepping my point and bringing up red herrings. 'Dumb' ≠ Unpredictable. This has nothing to do with the subjective overpowered unit arguments. This does not have anything to do with your clan handling the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay180496
The server has to run a simple ruleset for troop AI so it can even hope to run the game at it's current scale. Said ruleset, once known, makes it predicable. The fact that the ruleset also gives a slight random factor in attack angle makes dragons hard to aim, but they are aimable.
What I am saying is unpredictable is the unexpected aggro trigger of units from an unusually far distance. You have to admit that you expect units, even dragons, to go to the nearest target. What if it just suddenly went to the second nearest at random? That would make it unacceptably random. That is, in effect, what OP was complaining about. You don't expect for an aggro trigger to seemingly happen 3-4 buildings away, when during the rest of the time, it does not happen.
This has nothing to do with user error, or being inept, as you are accusing people of being, while telling them to shut up and live with thier stupidity. That is both closemined and insulting.
Now I will be telling you to shut up with your close minded ignorance until you wise up and give something useful for this topic; useful, as in evidence, supporting one claim or another, than talking down to others like a superior know-it-all.
Now, that large scale triggering dont happen always. And have u ever tried pekka, wiz, archer , barb, bk, aq. They also leave their targets in such conditions. See pekka in a gowipe his triggering is much larger and so is dragon's. And i never used the word "shut up" and requesting that u dont use it either.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
And i dont know everything i m just speaking what i have gathered from all the failed and some best war replays i have seen. Pekka and dragon are the worst when u r speaking of the radius.
The game will never be created the way u want it. A simple and more predictible AI to dragon means more power to the attacker, and dragons are balanced well enough at lvl3.
By dumb i meant, it can leave its target for a troop or barb king fairly far away. If ur dragons got out of the track by a troop or bk. Its defenders win coz many anti drag base use bk, cc troops, skillies for that purpose only.
And truly, its ur fail for not looking at bk's position and dragons possibility to go there while deploying.
End of topic!!!!
EDIT: no point of talking with a peraon who wants the game to be made according to him.
Simple Dragons AI is stupid, use Gowipe, its stronger and more consistent, it just uses some de
The only helpful thing you said in that entire rant is that it is a wider problem than what the OP first saw.Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay180496
And you don't have to tell people to 'shut up' directly in words to infer to them to shut up for being stupid. It is a common thing here, and you were the unlucky person to be the target of someone having seen enough of that kind of treatment towards others.
Plus your bad assumptions and anger is messing up your logic.
- I wasn't the one that had problems with the Barbarian King, that was the original poster.
- And I, nor you, nor anyone else here, can make the game into whatever. I see a possible glitch, and want to investigate and help give Supercell staff data on how to help fix it.
- Even you now admit it is an issue with other units.
I highly recommend you step back from the topic, and come back in a day or two. Yes, easier said than done, I know, but discussing an issue while enraged is not going to help. Nor did my bluntness with me pointing out that you were not assisting in the current topic, which was my fault. I was losing patience with people putting in posts that didn't add to the topic, and just enraged things more. That I am sorry for and apologize.Didn't I just say that stuff like this doesn't help? Didn't I? Hmm? What does GoWiPe have to do with investigating a possible bug?Quote:
Originally Posted by WarlordCocFarm
Added Edit: Now here is some irony...
In Clan War, we tend to attack same # base. Well, the same number base I attacked, that dragon aggro screw up happened.
They attacked back, and the same thing triggered. This time it was CC troops, Dragon 2 Minions, and Archer, on one side of the central section, fending off dragons, and several of them were on the other side. Flying skeletons were tripped and attacked the dragons that were opposite of the CC dragon and troops. After burning the skeletons, sure enough, they saw other troops and beelined right to them! They only one starred as well because of this, since the aggro made them skip the Air Defense at the right time.
The interior of my center section is 13 × 12, and the movement couldn't have been more perfectly parallel to the 13 tile side. Counting from the shadow spot, not including the spot they were on, it was 11 tiles away from the CC dragon.
I honestly don't ever recall seeing any troops being aggro-ed that hardcore before. Either it never came about until uncommon or rare conditions were met, or it was some kind of new AI thing that got introduced.
It seems like once the troops get a taste of defending troops' blood, they will drop everything and race to attack more that are around, or any new ones that show up.
That seems like a glitch to me, I really don't think they should be aggro-ed from those kind of distances
I see a lot of failed dragon attacks. Mainly because of dropping Al your dragons in one spot...
Yeah, I know. :facepalm: Need to deal with a few members in the clan that are deploying badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by raquelsroom
But I didn't deploy my dragons like a noob, nor do the guy that attacked my war base. The quirk with bloodthirsty troops both messed up our attacks. If this was common, and figured out by more people, you'd see more attack guides explaining how to exploit this AI behavior.
Do you see that happening? See many, if any, guides to troop aggro tactics relating to this effect?
I will agree that dragons don't need to take out the king because it won't harm the dragons but they should if you put any ground troop downQuote:
Originally Posted by napileon
Troop AI has been buggy in general since the clan perks update. I've seen lots of troops walk right past a building that should have been their next target, to attack something beyond. It's not just something "annoying" that makes the game a little more random and interesting. It screws up something that was otherwise quite predictable, and can lead to failed raids, because it can affect future troop deployment.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
For example, I once had a group of archers taking on a storage (just inside the outer walls). Their next target (once the storage was destroyed) should have been a cannon, which was just outside the walls, basically right next to the archers. The cannon was busy attacking 2-3 giants (stuck inside the walls, after having gone clear through the base).
Now, had I anticipated that the archers might spontanesouly decide to glitch, I could have dropped my last few archers to take out the cannon, while it was busy taking out the giants. But, the predictable thing was that my other archers would finish off the storage, and then take out the cannon.
Sadly, they took out the storage, then ran right up to the cannon to shoot at the building just on the other side. The last giant died, and the cannon proceeded to take out the archers. It was too late to drop my last few archers, since there weren't enough distractions left.
I've seen situations like this nearly a dozen times since the clan perks came out.
Another big change is the aggro radius. It used to be reasonably small, 5-8 tiles. Lately it seems like it can be up to 11-12 tiles. But not all the time, just every once in a while, enough that I still think of it as only 5-8 tiles, so I get surprised every once in a while.
Maybe a 12-tile aggro radius is acceptable to gameplay, but then it needs to be consistent. Otherwise, it's a bug in my opinion.
Wait, what did you just say?! :saywhat:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xitra
Hold on here, my exaggerated example to prove a point of randomly targeting the second closest target is true as well?! ♥♥♥!Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
My clan has a lot of experienced and solid players at the TH7-8 level and we've noticed that dragon attacks have started acting strangely recently too (I think since the update). We're not deploying badly, but have been trying to figure out why tactics that a few weeks ago would have been a 3 star attack are now inconsistent and too often a 1-2 star attack. :facepalm:
Using the opponents CC against them by forcing a deployment on the far side of the base as a way to "lure" my dragons into the center of a base is an interesting idea.
I suppose this thread doesn't add much more then an "us too", but I'm interested in seeing how the discussion evolves.
On another thread a poster had talked about lightning not taking out an air defense. Well last war an opponent hit one of my air defenses with 3 level 4 lightning spells. I checked with close up. Those spells were right on top of my air defense. It still had a sliver of health left. So when the raid was over that air defense was still,standing along with my cc leaving my attacker with 2 stars. It was really weird. Not really complaining just pointing out how odd it was. I'm sure my opponent was pretty upset about it though. I three starred him with ballonion;).
Yea I hate that I was thinking if a dragon is close to a heal spell or rage spell it will go in the spell range
Quote:
Originally Posted by hesto25
I think that flying troops shouldnt have to kill something that cant kill them Example: why do dragons need to kill a barb king if the barb king doesnt even see them. I meen a barb king doesnt go for air troops why not vice versa
If that barb king is slaughtering your ground troops, you'd feel differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shattered
Why would someone have ground troops in a dragon raid?
Well, for starters, not everyone uses mass dragons. Some people use dragons in a support role only. I sometimes do a modified loonion attack, where I bring 3-4 dragons to tank AD's while the balloons get to their targets. This is especially helpful at TH7, where level 4 balloons simply don't have very much firepower.
Some people use dragons for cleanup. Send in a ground attack, and once the AD's are down (assuming they were somewhat exposed), send in the dragons for support.
Some people do mass dragons, but they bring hog riders to take out an AD. I suppose in this case, careful planning would prevent you from having to use dragons to kill a king attacking your hogs attacking an AD that's attacking the dragons. But whatever, the game's design is simple so that it doesn't have to have a "plan" for every scenario. It has a basic set of rules. One of those rules is that if a troop can attack a CC troop, skeleton, or hero, then it will. Well, assuming it's in the aggro radius.
I made a post on the other thread about letting people see (what I think is) proof of the glitchy AI aggro effect.
This should be in the Bug section.
While I do agree that dragons can be, well, moronic, in attacks sometimes, that is usually due to the placement of the buildings and where you place the dragons down. Besides, they don't have a specific favorite target so they are going to go wherever they please.
Already been reported. I'm pretty sure I said that already much, much, earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Callywally
You are missing the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by abawesome13
It is hard to explain the magnitude of this in words. There are normal 'mornic' actions by troops, and there is '♥♥♥ why?! How?!' actions by troops. We are talking about the latter, where things are just in the absurd and totaly unpredictable, and effectively gameplay ruining at random times.
Just read the whole thread, or the improvement stuff as best you can, and you'll see what we are talking about. This isn't some noob being a moron, this is an uncommon, but spectacular, AI glitch in troops.
I honestly only read the first page.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
Know your AI and how it works no change needed.
As I said in the other thread, I would like to get someone to video this, especially my attack with the MVP dragon killing (cowardly) barbarian, before things clear from the clan's war log.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
Yet another one that saw the first page and ASsumed they knew exactly what the thread was about? Or just another person that thinks they are helping by putting thier unhelpful 2¢ in?Quote:
Originally Posted by Justeatn
If you didn't read, there is a reason why you should read most of a thread. If you didn't, you need to make some effort before just spamming such a comment.
I know it is human nature to 'jab' someone with advice, but after awhile of seeing it, it just has to be pointed out so one less person goes around doing it. I don't, it might start something here, and may get others to follow suit.
This is what I was talking about in my other thread, not the aggro radius that's being discussed here. But since it's all about dragons...Quote:
Originally Posted by Xitra
I've been on the fence about the aggro radius (again, which is separate from my other argument). I see both sides - it can help or hurt, but one thing is clear - it needs to be consistent. The more attacks I watch, the more I believe the radius being too large. Success with dragons is in keeping them in 2-3 groups. When aggro pulls them all apart, they are worthless. It's the same principle of a good gowipe. You don't want your pekka's and wizards wandering off, nor do you want your dragons wandering off. Could you imagine the rage that would ensue if hogs split 5 ways after their first defensive building?
Frankly, the apparently "updated" random aspect to AI is out of control with dragons. The smaller the base being attacked, the less noticeable it is. But when attacking a TH9 the sheer number of buildings will frustrate you because you can no longer focus your attacks because you can no longer count on them to attack the next closet building, which is how they are supposed to work. It's not a matter of skill anymore, it's sheer dumb luck, and most of the time, you don't even get that. I know my dragons and know/knew how to use them with surgical precision. It's similar to the archer queen shooting at walls when she could walk through a hole 4 tiles away or when she approaches 3 defensive structures and a storage and the storage always seems to be the best choice.
If you don't believe me, keep watching those attacks. You'll see it.
Far as I can tell, it is constant, just constantly impractical to plan around.
- Defence troops come in
- Normal expected aggro radius kicks in
- Attack troops charge after
- Attack troops usually dispatches defence troops
- New defence troops come into play
- Any attack troops that directly engaged in troops before now rush towards different Defence Troops within a rarely known aggro raduis (12 tiles or more?)
The two questions I have with this whole mess is...
- Why is there even a 12 or more tile radius relating to aggro? (assuming there is a limit)
- Why does the 'stop and attack troops' priority stay locked in place, even when no troops on the field currently?
That is the problem I see in the core AI used by most troops. Reason why the heavy hitting troops, like Dragons, Barbarian Kings, P.E.K.K.A.s and the like demonstrate this often, is because they are more likely to engage defence troops, and live, and then hold onto that locked into attack priority.
I'm willing to bet that most, if not all, cases where a troop singlemindly goes towards defence troops (including skeletons), is because they already took out troops before hand, and are locked into hunting and killing more troops.
Hmm, when I think about dragons, this behavior seems counter-productive. But when you think about it from the point of view of barching, you would want your troops to finish off all the enemy troops (within a reasonable radius) before continuing their assault. Otherwise, they'd constant be switching back and forth between attacking buildings and attacking troops, which would waste a lot of time and lead to more attrition of your troops. Since all the AI in this game seems to boil down to what archers and barbs do (with a few exceptions, like the valkyrie), it makes a little more sense why the dragons are doing this. The 12-13 tile aggro radius is pretty ridiculous though. I'm not sure how that's at all useful. It's as big as the CC lure radius, which might be helpful for pulling your troops in. But the 12-tile radius only seems to kick in after your troops get a taste for blood, as you mentioned. Before that, the aggro radius is a much more reasonable 5-8 tiles. I'll try to pay more attention and see if I can pin down the aggro radius for non-bloodthirsty troops.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames
For 'first contact' aggro, it is usually ignored (aka 0 radius) until hit. Then what seems to happen is that the from point of first contact, a trigger is sent to the surrounding troops, about 4-5 tiles radius, to attack enemy troops.
Programing wise , this is likely just a blanket priority action to drop any current actions and retarget to nearest enemy troop. Given there are limited numbers of sources for troops, there is no need for extra code to say to attack the source of the trigger, since there is only so many troops in a limited radius from first contact, and if it is a mob of troops, attacking closest is best anyway.
Also programing wise, there normally is no need to turn off the check for troops for that unit, given how there are very limited amount of troops on a given base. Why add extra rules to see if it needs to be turned off, when it is easier to waste some processing time on checking what normally isn't there anymore, than use even more processing time to try figure out when to turn it off to save a little bit of processing time?
Most cases, this shortcuts and cutting corners works; CC troops normally all deploy, tier 1 troops that took out CC troops usually don't last long anyway, and is a moot point to do such 'logic cleanup', which means any new troops that show up to defend cause the same reaction to the fresher attack troops, and everything runs fine.
Reason why people rarely see the glitch we are talking about is because a set of conditions have to be met, and I already gave those in an earlier post. Which means most mass dragon attackers rarely see problems since the defender's troops and skeleton traps usually deploy in a way that doesn't cause any problems. But when they do, utter stupidity happens.
I am questioning if there even is a range limit on 'bloodthirsty' aggro. 12 has been a stated limit, by a replay on an attack on my war base seems to show 13 tiles. I'm willing to bet there is no check, since that would be another rule in the AI actions, and why do a distance check if you are the programer writing code for troop interactions that would only trigger once, and in short distances?
Well, mix of air and ground-only attacking units in a CC, with an attacker with mixed air and ground units, or just the use of skeleton traps, have cause these coding shortcuts to be an issue from time to time.
This also makes me wonder, if this has always been coded like this, but not apparent until recently, why are we talking about it after the clan perk update? This would have been a rare issue early on, but even more of an issue once skeleton traps were introduced.
Guess it took this long for the issue to be accidentally posted here in the wrong forum.
Still need someone to video record the silly incident that shows this glitch rather clearly.
Here's a recent observation that may or may not be useful: in our current war a clanmate deploys dragons in a line and they progress more or less in a straight line, until a skelly air trap deploys on what would be the line of dragon's right flank. The nearest dragons destroy the skelly's while the middle dragons spend the next ~5 seconds destroying their current targets (an elixir storage), then they immediately converge over about another 5 seconds to the location as to where the skelly trap was located (despite the fact that the skelly's were all dead). This in turn allows an AD to survive and unfortunately the attack to fail. What surprised me was that the dragons swerved off course after the skelly's were all dead. Anyway, I don't know whether it helps or not but if anyone wants to come check out the replay our clan is called the Rush Raiders.
Well, my clan also used dragons as their main attack troops. Now, when I was reading this post at first, I thought it was only small glitch that I wouldn't about. But reading it further, there are some that do reflect this glitch in 2 attacks of my clan did.
Dragon attack, is as we should know it, will attack things that is closes to them, but in 1 attack by my clanmate, the dragon reach the core, destroyed the th, and supposely destroy the ad, that is just next to the th. No extra space and not a tile or two away. So generally, the ad should be next. But instead, the dragon went to attack the storage, that is 5 to 6 tiles away. Leaving the ad that is just IN FRONT of the dragon. Ended the attack in 2 stars instead of 3. And it was supposely a 3 stars attack.
On the 2nd attack, the dragon, after deployed in line, killed the cc troops, almost at the core. The first ad had been lightning and destroyed, leaving the other 2. Instead of destroying the core, the dragon fly past the th AND a wizard tower, just to track the BK. Weird but it has happen. Its fortunate that this attack is done by the opposite clan, but that is still weird imo.
Never met this kind of glitch again after 6 wars though.
Yes, still sounds like dragons have really slow-to-act retargetting AI when it comes to defense troops, including the King and skeletons. Is this a feature or a bug of dragons?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunthar
Quote:
Originally Posted by George1971
If you are referring to first contact, where what I said above (on quote) seems to happen, that is normal for all troops. Otherwise, I'm not sure I know what you are talking about, because once that 'bloodthirsty' effect gets triggered, then they tend to retarget rather fast when new troops are within sight, and then stay stuck on that goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenJames