Ok so many have speculated about dragon level 5, but my question is this what do you think of them bringing out a witch level 3 - do you want to see it or do you think it will be too OP? Let me know what your thoughts are and don't forget to vote.
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Ok so many have speculated about dragon level 5, but my question is this what do you think of them bringing out a witch level 3 - do you want to see it or do you think it will be too OP? Let me know what your thoughts are and don't forget to vote.
Depends on how it's implemented.
For as much flak as X7386 received for his mathematical analysis of lava hounds, I thought he had some brilliant ideas in there.
First of all, I think my favorite part was his analysis of lava pups:
That's pure genius right there. Sure, the hound spawns 12 pups. But that doesn't mean that the pups represent 12 housing space.Quote:
Originally Posted by X7386
So what about skeletons? Do the 8 skeletons of level 2 witches really count as 8 housing space? If they did, the witch herself would only be worth 4 housing space, basically a wizard.
So here's the thing. A skeleton's health and DPS are frankly rather pathetic, compared to a barbarian. DPS is similar to a barbarian, but they barely have one-third the health. They get one-shotted by maxed archer towers, and by level 10 cannons (available at TH8). Note: not sure about level 9 cannons, the DPS suggests 44.8 damage per shot, and skellies have 45, so depending on rounding, they might get one-shotted. Does anyone know for sure?
Anyway, the point is, 8 skeletons is not worth 8 housing space.
Using X7's math, the geometric mean of 25/30 and and 45/125 is 0.5477. So 8 skellies are worth just over 4 housing space. Let's call it 5. It kinda just depends on what's attacking. Against low level point defenses, 8 skellies might only be worth 3-4 housing space. Against heroes that will one-shot barbarians anyway, skellies might be worth the full 8 housing space. But 5 seems a reasonable average.
Now, what about the witch herself? She's slower than a wizard, has less health, and lower DPS. The only thing she has going for her is her range, a full tile longer than wizards. Without the range buff, she's really only worth 3 housing space at best, maybe even 2. Considering 12 housing space, minus 5 for the skellies, she's worth 7. Does the extra tile of attack range justify her being worth 7 housing space instead of just 2-3?
With all that out of the way, I think we have room to argue for a level 3. Bumping her up to 10 skellies would mean that the skellies are worth closer to 6 housing space. That makes the witch worth closer to 6, which is probably more in line with her actual worth (as a longer range, very weak wizard).
So yeah, I think there's room for a level 3 witch, and based on math, I don't think she'd be OP.
Of course, the math ignores most game mechanics (I tried to consider a few), so it doesn't really tell us if she'd be OP. But it at least let's us consider it.
it will happen eventually
Those calculations don't really work for witches for 2 reasons. First, you forgot is that the skeletons are WAY faster than a barb, which also adds value since the skeletons can get to the front lines and take heat off the other troops much faster than a barb can. So give them a bump for that. More importantly though, the total # of skeletons a witch makes isn't fixed like a lava hound--a well-deployed witch can easily make 15-20 or more skeletons through the course of a battle, easily making them worth their 12 housing spaces.
In a thread about TH8 elixir imbalance I proposed one solution might be to give TH8 level 5 dark barracks. An argument could be made for potentially making the lava hound level 5 and saving the witch to level 6, and giving valks to TH7, but this also opens the door for changing how many levels there are, when they're available, and the stats.
What if she was available at TH8, but only made 5 skeletons at level 1. TH8s would be able to upgrade to 6 skeletons, TH9s to 7 and then 8, and TH10s to 9, giving a total of 5 levels.
I've only used a witch once (CC donation), so I don't have a lot of first-hand experience with them. Good point about the increased speed, though that only puts them more into goblin territory, which they still are inferior to (based on stats). Still, I can see bumping their housing space a little. Maybe say 8 skellies are worth 6 housing space, and 10 would be worth 8? That would leave 4 housing space for the witch herself, making her more in line with a wizard. I still think there's room for a level 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomness2016
As for spawning more skellies, are you sure about that? My understanding was that she spawns 2 sets, for a total of 6 at level 1, or a total of 8 at level 2.
Edit: I don't have any particular opinion on shifting the dark barracks levels around. There's supposedly room for 4 more dark troops, so it would make sense to shift some of the levels down, to make room for more on top. I don't think they could easily rearrange the order they are unlocked, however.
Not sure if unlocking the witch at TH8 would be good or not. GoWiWi at TH8 would be interesting, I suppose. If they did unlock the witch at TH8, I agree about reducing the number of skeletons. Since they spawn in 2 sets, that would mean only 4 skellies at level 1. Basically, the current level 1 would become level 2, and the current level 2 would become level 3. I suppose that's one way to add level 3, but I don't think everyone would be happy about it. TH8's might, since it would mean they could use witches. And those two extra dark barracks upgrades would help ease the elixir surplus at TH8.
I'm sure...I attack with witches all the time. Every so often when a few die, she stops shooting and makes more.
They don't HAVE to spawn the same number in each set. They could spawn 3 then 2 then 3 then 2...
I suggested this because 6 may be too powerful at TH8, especially when first unlocked, but 4 might not be strong enough. Similarly a witch that spawns 10 skellies could easily be too powerful. I just unlocked level 2 and it's already a crazy lot when you start using 3, 4, 5, 6 witches in a battle.
The pattern with adding a level to the witches would be to add two more skeletons; that seems a tad overpowered since they already spawn so many troops at a time. However, if we add another dimension to the troops, such as additional HP or DPS, then I can see an upgrade meaning a bit less "OP'd-ness". And it isn't like this upgrade would be pointless, because often times, a witch will get stuck on a building by herself at the end of a raid with her incredibly weak dps...Quote:
Originally Posted by ironagedave
The way I see it, she's about as powerful as an archer; but if she had a few extra dos with her ranged attack, she may be able to actually fulfill another role in the battle other than spawning that endless supply of troops.
In that way I can see a witch upgrade worth looking into, but otherwise, more skellies isn't necessary nor a reasonable request.
Ok I'm pretty good with numbers but I dont want to bore anyone.... Yeah I like the idea! I havent noticed much of a difference between lvl 1 and 2 so I would like the lvl 3 to add to the power of GoWiWi!
I personally would like to see it happen.
Holy ♥♥♥♥, I didn't realize they keep spawning. When the wiki says a limit of 6 (or 8), I assumed that's the total number that get spawned during the raid. But apparently it's just the total number actually on the battlefield at any given time? More spawn as the first sets die? I watched a vid on youtube, and you're right, they just keep spawning and spawning.Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomness2016
So, in hindsight, my "mathematical" analysis is useless. Even if skeletons 8 skeletons are worth only 4-5 barbs, the fact that a witch might spawn 20+ skeletons in the first minute of a battle just totally changes the math.
And now I want them at TH8, LOL! And yes, even if they only spawned 2 at a time, but maybe had a limit of 5 per witch (instead of 4), that would still be pretty awesome. Indeed, if the battlefield limit isn't directly connected to the number spawned per set, we actually could do some interesting things to add more levels. For example:
Level Skellies per Spawn Max Skellies TH 1 2 5 8 2 3 6 9 3 4 8 9 4 5 8 10
Basically, this would be implemented during a maintenance break. All existing level 2 witches would be upgraded to 3, and level 1 would be upgraded to 2. Thus, TH9 wouldn't lose what they already have. Dark Barracks level 5 would be unlocked at TH8. (If a TH9 finishes constructing a level 5 barracks after this update, they would only have the new level 1 witch, not level 2.)
The new level 1 witches would be able to spawn almost as many skellies as the new level 2, but only 2 at a time. This would keep the spawn rate low enough that TH8 defenses aren't as badly overwhelmed.
TH10 would get a new level 4 (equivalent to level 3 on today's scale). It would increase the spawn rate to 5, but the total number would cap out at 8 still. Thus, TH10's on defense wouldn't have to deal with any more skellies on the battlefield compared to today. But, they're respawn faster, which is fair, considering TH10 defense has an extra X-bow, plus the infernos.
So basically, a level 3 witch would spawn 4, then 4 more, and then maintain 8 on the battlefield by continuing to spawn up to 4 at a time.
A level 4 witch would spawn 5, then 3 (to reach the cap of 8), then spawn up to 5 at a time to maintain 8 on the battlefield.
Anyway, just throwing out numbers for fun. I'm really curious to get to TH9 so I can start playing with them, lol!