Rebalance Town Hall 7

why the big deal

decrease stat of lvl 1 and 2

3 stay the same

4 moved to TH9 and a stat boost

and level 5 dragons unlock

yes level 2 dragons will still be able to 3 star TH 7 but at least it will take some skills for level 1 ones

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Originally Posted by GanjaSandwich

Doesn't affect you so why do you care? You do realize townhall 7's are the baby townhalls right? And yeah 1 lighting and it goes down. You can do the same thing on a townhall 8 with uneven air defenses. And still get a 3 star. Even if you did add another air defense. You're adding 2 air defenses (which is stupid.) and nothing for townhall 8 now. So townhall 8 will have 0 new air defenses.

Lets just shut up with these drag post. They're doing their jobs. If you feel a army of fire breathing Dragons shouldnt lay waste to a village with 2 wizards, 4 archer towers, 2 (even 3) air defenses. Then don't play.

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I'm TH7 and dragon raids are bull no need for any spells even with all my anti-air defences maxed out i still can't stop a full dragon attack from three staring me

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Originally Posted by Xitra

Adding stuff to TH7 to try to balance dragons is tricky.

A new Air Defense? Sure, it would help against dragons, prevent at least some 3 star attacks.

But balloonion is already weak enough at TH7. Another AD would make it almost useless. As it is, a level 3 or higher AD can 2-shot a level 4 balloon. Balloons at TH7 are just too weak to use effectively against a base with 3 AD's level 3 or higher. Note, level 3 is the TH5 level of the AD. A TH7 with 3 level 3 AD's would be far harder to air raid than a TH7 with 2 level 5 AD's.


If you want to re-balance TH7, you need to do it with something else. Maybe another Seeking Air Mine? I shot down this suggestion a month or two ago, but that was back when SAM's could target healers. Now that healers don't trigger air traps, I don't have any objection whatsoever to giving 2 SAM's to TH7. Heck, TH9 gets 4, so I wouldn't even object to giving a third SAM to TH8, so that TH8 still gets a buff over TH7.

Archer towers maybe? TH8 gets two levels of archer towers, but TH7 only gets one? And TH7 only gets 4 archer towers, compared to 5 cannons. I think we could keep it at 4 archer towers, but unlock level 9 at TH7. Granted, archer towers affect ground troops as well, but that wouldn't be the end of the world. Level 9 archer towers can one-shot level 3 archers, but that's a TH6 troop against a maxed TH7 defense, so that doesn't bother me. It's not like TH6's have much luck invading TH7's anyway.


But let's not forget the most obvious way to help TH7's against dragons. Supercell should nerf level 1 dragons, even if only by a little bit. Maybe shave off 10-20 DPS, but let them keep the health. The health is important for them to tank for balloons/minions. Anything that encourages players to use troop combinations instead of single troop spam.

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I really like the idea of nerfing their DPS. I hadn't thought of that and think that might be a viable solution. That coupled with an extra air mine might do the trick. Another thought would be to make Air bombs do 2x-4x the damage to dragons. This would be similar to the change hogs received with Giant bombs. Although it nerfed the attack it didn't completely eliminate it from the game. And I still see people use mass hog attack. The skill required to pull off a 3 star has gone up, but it's still possible.

I think the discussion is definitely moving in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Medici

No one stays at th 7 long enough for this matter.

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There, I fixed that for you. TH7 is a blip on the radar of CoC gameplay. SC would be foolish to invest any significant resources into reworking such a tiny portion of the game. Sure, TH7 is the first time you have to save more than an hours raiding to start a single upgrade but TH8 takes more time than 1-7 combined. A DE drill here (already done), maybe lvl1 dragons debuffed there, or another level of archer tower sprinkled in sometime . . . that's about all the attention TH7 needs.

SC has much bigger fish to fry on their development list than reworking the portion of the game that everybody tries to rush past anyway.

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Originally Posted by bonesaw13

I really like the idea of nerfing their DPS. I hadn't thought of that and think that might be a viable solution. That coupled with an extra air mine might do the trick. Another thought would be to make Air bombs do 2x-4x the damage to dragons. This would be similar to the change hogs received with Giant bombs. Although it nerfed the attack it didn't completely eliminate it from the game. And I still see people use mass hog attack. The skill required to pull off a 3 star has gone up, but it's still possible.

I think the discussion is definitely moving in the right direction.

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I disagree about making the air bombs do extra damage, for one simple reason. TH7's only get 2, while TH8's get 4. The problem with dragons is at TH7, but the suggested change would help TH8's more than TH7's. TH8's don't need the help. It's possible to 3-star TH8's, but it's harder. Level 2 dragons will 3-star a new TH8. Level 3 dragons will 3-star a mid-TH8. But it's almost impossible to 3-star a maxed TH8 with a good base layout. Not impossible, but very hard, which means level 3 dragons are balanced and don't need a nerf.

Adding a second SAM at TH7 will not unbalance the game. TH6's are already screwed when attacking TH7's with air. Level 3 balloons are probably the most pathetic level (relative to when you have them).TH7 has two air defenses, and TH6 only has 2x lightning, so TH6 will never 3-star from the air. In fact, a TH6 would be lucky to get 1 star. And anyway, a SAM only takes out one balloon.

TH8's have level 3 dragons and level 5 balloons, so adding a second SAM will not stop a TH8 from 3-starring a TH7.

Thus, the only factor in whether a second SAM will unbalance TH7, is how it affects TH7 versus TH7. Currently, it's a guaranteed 3-star. Adding a second SAM will not stop 3-star attacks, but it might make them less than 100% guaranteed. I say there's no downside.

And like you said, coupled with a slight DPS nerf, this could bring back some much needed balance to TH7. If the second SAM is not given to TH7, then I think a 20 DPS nerf is called for. If the second SAM is given, then only 10 DPS nerf.

Lots of good points here.

For those who say drags 2 should not be unlocked at TH7, that would make it very difficult for TH7s to go up against TH8s.

Xitra is right about adding air d...you'd have to bump up the HP on level 3 and 4 balloons too. The extra air mine is probably a better idea. Giving 3 to TH8s could be rough though...it isn't all that easy to 3* a TH8 with a good layout and max air d using dragons.

As for the changing the stats, this may be the best idea and is almost spot on. The trick is leaving level 2 strong enough to 3* TH7 and 2* TH8, while leaving level 3 alone and taking level 4 down a bit as well.

Current Stats:

Level DPS HP

1 140 1,900
2 160 2,100
3 180 2,300
4 200 2,500


Proposed Stats:

Level DPS HP

1 125 1,800
2 150 2,000
3 180 2,300
4 195 2,500 (level 4 now costs 6m)
5 210 2,700 (level 5 costs 8m)

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Originally Posted by awesomness2016

Lots of good points here.

For those who say drags 2 should not be unlocked at TH7, that would make it very difficult for TH7s to go up against TH8s.

Xitra is right about adding air d...you'd have to bump up the HP on level 3 and 4 balloons too. The extra air mine is probably a better idea. Giving 3 to TH8s could be rough though...it isn't all that easy to 3* a TH8 with a good layout and max air d using dragons.

As for the changing the stats, this may be the best idea and is almost spot on. The trick is leaving level 2 strong enough to 3* TH7 and 2* TH8, while leaving level 3 alone and taking level 4 down a bit as well.

Current Stats:

Level DPS HP

1 140 1,900
2 160 2,100
3 180 2,300
4 200 2,500


Proposed Stats:

Level DPS HP

1 125 1,800
2 150 2,000
3 180 2,300
4 195 2,500 (level 4 now costs 6m)
5 210 2,700 (level 5 costs 8m)

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LOL, I disagree about nerfing level 4. I think level 4 should be buffed and given to TH9. Disagree? TH9 gets lavaloonion with max balloons, level 5 minions, level 2 lava hounds. That's a 3-star strategy against TH9's. 11 level 4 dragons (plus 1 in CC) is guaranteed 3-star against a TH8, but only a 2-star strategy against a TH9, and only in the hands of a skilled dragon user.

So as long as we're doing our wish list of dragon stat rebalancing, here's mine:

Current Dragon Levels

Level	TH Level	DPS	Health
1	7	140	1900
2	7	160	2100
3	8	180	2300
4	10	200	2500

My Proposed Dragon Levels

Level	TH Level	DPS	Health
1	7	130	1900
2	7	155	2100
3	8	180	2300
4	9	205	2500
5	10	230	2700

This is in addition to giving a second SAM to TH7. A second SAM at TH7 will have a negligible impact on Balloonion, and with the recent healer update, it will have no effect on giant-healer. The second SAM is the best way to buff TH7 defenses against dragons, while having minimal impact on any other attack strategy.

Notice that I buffed level 4 dragons very slightly (5 DPS), and I added a level 5, which has 30 more DPS and 200 more health than the today's level 4 dragons. Mass dragons will never be a 3-star strategy at TH9 and up, but this would make dragons slightly more useful in air combo raids. Also, donated level 5 dragons would be very helpful to maxed TH8's who can't quite 3-star each other as things stand today.

(Donating a level 5 dragon sound unfair? The boost in stats is smaller than the boost from level 5 to level 6 balloons, and a TH8 can already get level 6 balloons from a TH9.)

Fair enough. I have seen level 4 drags 3 star pretty much max TH9s, and with heroes that were only like level 5-10. Granted, TH9s only get 4 spells, so maybe you have something. I only took away 5 DPS though.

A lot of people who don't support this idea are basically regurgitating the same arguments:
1) Town hall 7 doesn't last long.
It doesn't last long. I agree. This however is insufficient justification for drags to be OP. Let me compare this situation to a real life one (this comparison will not be perfect):

While you are in school, a group of boys randomly start bullying you. Every day they beat you up, steal your backpack and dump your work in the trash, and force you into uncomfortable positions while they laugh in fear of being beaten up again. Because you are not strong enough to defend against them, they are free to bully you at will. You ask them why they are randomly bullying you, and they say that it is only because their regular "target" is absent from school for a trip and will be back in a month.

You tell the principal about their behavior, and he says, "Don't worry about it. It doesn't last long."

Just as these boys can bully you while you have no way of defending yourself, town hall 7s can bully each other with dragons as the other town hall 7s have no way of defending themselves.

2) Dragons should wreck the base.

No justification whatsoever. We are expected not to question the fact that dragons should wreck the base, but this is purely personal opinion and not a "fact" as we are supposed to believe.

These arguments were also the main two arguments against my idea to switch dragons and PEKKAs in the barracks. No one is adding any substantial arguments to the table.

Regarding the OP: I think this idea is good. It isn't ridiculous like some of the ideas to nerf dragons are (for example, make a limit on the number of dragons you can hold in a camp). Yes, we will see th7 dragloon. But it won't be as bad. The other option I find could work would be some way of nerfing drags only at th7 (a stat decrease could work), and this is certainly a viable option.

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Originally Posted by Xitra

Level 2 dragons will 3-star a new TH8. Level 3 dragons will 3-star a mid-TH8. But it's almost impossible to 3-star a maxed TH8 with a good base layout.

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Wrong, TH 8's can be murdered quite easily with all (or mostly all) dragon attacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbUVjNTWJfo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrViQXYGqUs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L89iBtpZVE4

If you know how to use dragon's correctly and use the AI effectively, TH 8 stand little to no chance against dragons.