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I think it would be really cool to have level 5 dragons update, I don't really have a color idea, maybe black again or blue? but the level 5 dragons could blow out blue fire instead of red, just an idea that I think would look pretty sick in the game.
Too OP. Plus, we dont need any more levels of the stupid dragon.Quote:
Originally Posted by jumppp21
Considering the increase should be small, their useless at th9, and that we dont need them... I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by jobro
Yes. Love dragons, dumb as they are. It is sad that they lose effectiveness at high levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by jumppp21
I wish that healers would heal dragons.
I think lvl 6 would be better. With gold armor and laser beams attached to their heads.Quote:
Originally Posted by jumppp21
Those who love dragons are too stupid to learn other combs.
No, we don't want that. Too OP and would be greatly used for stalking archer towers. Cannons can't do anything about it. btw, dragons are stupid.
Since the thread got necro'ed anyway (and not by me), I have to ask: how would a level 5 dragon be OP?Quote:
Originally Posted by jobro
When's the last time you saw a TH10 using level 4 dragons? I'm not saying it doesn't happen; I watched a video a few days ago showing TH10's in champs using dragons against TH10's. Granted, they were only getting 50 2-stars, and they often needed the heroes for the last few percent.
Anyway, level 5 dragons at TH10 won't be a big deal. Mass dragons would be a 1-star strategy with a possibility of 2 stars. Dragons in a combo with lavaloonion might be interesting, but not OP. Minions have higher DPS, lava hounds are better tanks, loons have higher DPS and target defenses. Dragons would serve a very small niche role, even a buffed level 5 dragon.
Dragons need a change in overall, not just buffing hp and dps with another level. They need a change that make them work better with other units.
i have a suggestion for that:
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...speed-HP-a-bit
maybe u read it and give your oppinion
I could see lvl 5 drags... the increase in stats would have to be fairly minimal though as to not make them OP like they are at TH7.
The people that say level 5 drags would be too OP don't know what they're talking about. A level 5 could easily be added if you nerfed stats of level 4 a little and made them available at TH9.
As has been discussed in other threads, the main problem with dragons is actually that level 2 is too powerful at TH7...it takes basically 0 skill to drop a full level 2 dragon army and 3 star another maxed TH7. But you have to be careful not to nerf them too much, because you want level 2 drags to be able to 2 star a mid-level TH8. The best solution offered for this is probably a slight decrease in DPS and/or HP, and the addition of a second Seeking Air Mine at TH7.
Level 3 drags are right where they need to be for TH8, but as others have said here, TH9s basically stop using them for the most part because they're good for 2 stars at best against other TH9s, and once you're dealing with level 3 xbows on air and level 7 air defense, you might as well forget you even have them.
Sure, at level 4 they can 3 star a TH9, but only if used against the right base with a fair amount of skill. Against a TH10 though they're generally only good for 1 star, maybe 2 on the right base if you know how the use them and have high enough heroes.
Hehe, it seems like most people agree that level 3 dragons are the only level that's "just right". Disagreements abound on levels 1, 2, and 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomness2016
You say level 2 and 4 should be nerfed (assuming level 4 is unlocked at TH9). On the contrary, I think level 2 is fine, level 1 needs a nerf, and level 4 is fine, might even need a small buff. Funny how our perspectives differ, isn't it?
Here's the thing: Level 1 dragons can already 3-star a maxed TH7. A second SAM might be able to prevent this, though I have my doubts. A second SAM plus level 9 archer towers should stop level 1 dragons, at least if 3x lightning is used. If 3x rage is used, I still have my doubts that level 1 dragons can be stopped at TH7.
So, if level 1 dragons are practically guaranteed 3 stars, then nerfing level 2 is pointless. It's not going to stop a 3 star raid against a max TH7.
So why bother nerfing level 2? You're not hurting TH7's. You're only hurting early TH8's that depend on dragons to 3-star other early TH8's, and 2-star mid- to max-TH8's. You're hurting the wrong crowd. I say nerf level 1 (shave 10-20 DPS off). I say leave level 2 alone. But right now, the stats have a nice linear progression, which means level 2 dragons are the average of level 1 and level 3. If you want to keep it that way, that's cool too. Indeed, it would suggest a slight buff for level 4 (assuming level 3 is untouched).
I'm for a buff to level 4, because honestly, I don't see mass dragons replacing lavaloonion at TH9. Level 4 dragons plus level 6 balloons would be a deadly combo, but only a 2-star strategy at TH9 versus 4 level 7 AD's and 4 SAM's, unless they used a lot of balloons and maybe some minions.
True...I've never used drags much, so it's a little hard to tell, (I upgraded hogs early, seemed like a better strategy.) but if level 1 is 3 starring max TH7 then I see your point, and I get the problem with nerfing level 2 too much too.
Based on using level 4 drags and watching them in action though, I still think they're a bit too strong for TH9. I've seen level 4 drag armies take out 80% plus consistently against TH9s, 3 star sometimes even against level 7 air d and level 3 xbows on air. And that's without the extra drag you get with full max camps, and relatively low heroes.
When I was approaching TH7, I was so excited to get hogs. But after reading about the nerfs, I kinda got scared. My first few times using hogs, I got this impression of how horribly fragile they can be. I watched my brother-in-law take out a TH8 with level 2 dragons, and I decided that was the direction I wanted to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomness2016
I've become something of a dragon junkie. They're all I use in war on my TH7 and TH8 accounts. I'm actually upgrading all my spells and air units, before unlocking pekkas or golems. I figure there's no point increasing my attack strength for wars, when I only use air attacks.
I mix dragons with balloons in most raids. Sometimes I bring minions, either to be cheap (against a weak opponent), or to help with cleanup on very spread out bases.
My level 3 dragons plus level 5 balloons have trouble against mid TH8's. Sometimes I get the third star, sometimes I don't. I have yet to 3-star a maxed TH8. I won't claim to be a dragon "expert", but I think I have enough experience to say that I'm at least average. That is, you typical noob isn't going to do better than I am. I might not do better than they do, but that's not the point. ;)
All that said, if my level 3 dragons are struggling to 3 star mid TH8's, and I've never 3-starred a max TH8, then I really don't see how level 4 dragons can be such a big problem at TH9. TH9 has 2 more SAM's, 2 X-Bow's which should be set to air mode in war, another AD, plus the level 7 AD upgrade. Honestly, if they made a level 5 dragon, I think it would have trouble 3-starring a maxed TH9 without level 6 balloons and maybe 1-2 lava hounds for support.
But, that's just my opinion based on my experiences at TH8.
Well for one thing, TH9s would be able to mindlessly 3 star TH8s, which isn't really the case now. You'd be surprised how many low to mid TH9s have trouble 3 starring well laid out TH8s with GoWipe or GoWiWi, even with 220 spots, 4 spells and a Queen. And of course max hogs and healing spells can still fall victim to well-placed giant bombs, especially when stacked together.
Not that nerfing them slightly would do much to prevent that, but I don't think there's any way you buff them AND make them available sooner. Now if you're not adding a level 5, then I could see a slight buff, but my preference would probably be no change or a slight nerf to level 4, and making them available for TH9.
I dont see this happening as they are already way too overpowering, unless they would maybe make the AD's have a higher damage to be destroyed or a lvl 9!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsampsel25
Except they're not. As others have pointed out, a TH10 can use level 4 drags to wreak havoc on TH9s, but you rarely see them being used to attack other TH10s.
Thats because it takes some skill to attack a TH10 and you dont need much when using dragons. And I have seen lvl 4 dragons used against our TH10 plenty of times, they use them as a buffer for their balloons and minions.Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomness2016
I wouldn't care either way as I use mostly ground attacks and lavaloonion, just throwing out some ideas and thoughts for everyone to think about.
Drags die after 8. So I support this as they're weak at 10.
i vote YES for a dragon Lv5 bcus i've seen that they are useless to attack a high village and i also would like a rework about his attack... a fire of a dragon is constant like 0.1 attack speed but obviously if u do this damage will be crazy but not if u also modify the damage per tick, example:
current dragon Lv3 damage: 180damage/sec but his attack speed is 1.5 so 180x1.5=270 each attack animation.
reworked dragon Lv3 damage: 180damage/sec but now attack speed is 0.1 so 140x0.1=18 each attack animation.
also with a change of the sound in the attack animation bcus with the current animation sound will sound crazy.
pst: my english suck and hope u like my rework idea.
So... you want dragons to constantly breathe fire, doing very small damage, but like 10 times per second?Quote:
Originally Posted by Monto6
This would make them weaker and stronger, and I'm not sure how it would balance out.
Weaker, because it would take 1.5 seconds to deliver the full 270 damage. As dragons are today, they instantly deliver that 270 damage as soon as they attack. So if the dragon dies before the 1.5 seconds is up, they will have delivered less damage.
Stronger, because they will be able to acquire new targets faster. For example, they currently only take out one troop every 2 seconds or so. That's 1.5 seconds per attack, plus about a half second to acquire a new target. With this change, they could take out a troop every second: half a second to kill the target (more or less depending on health), then half a second to acquire a new target. Same for buildings, they'd only spend as much time as necessary to take out low health buildings, then move on to the next target.
you have a point and yeah its seens it has his pros and cons but its an rework idea that came to me reading the whole thread and why not add more damage on it sounds cool but thats not my decision and maybe adding more damage would make it OP idk, i just bring ideas that can be modified by sc if taking in consideration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xitra
Rather than lv 5 drag we should hav a wiser dragon AI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ust0078910
All splash damage AI troop needs fixing, particularly when it comes to targeting cc troops:
Basic problem: 20 archers stand in a clump. Wizard/Dragon/Valk targets 1 of them. That troop dies before the wizard/valk/dragon unleashes it attack. Instead of taking out the other 20 archers that are standing within the splash damage radius, the wizard/valk/archer acts all confused, misfires, takes another second or two to reload.
The solution seems rather simple: have the troops unleash their attack whether the target dies or not.
Totally agree, but not relevant to the current discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomness2016
So you want a more powerful dragon to replace Jorge Yao from Town Hall 8?
"As dragons are today, they instantly deliver that 270 damage as soon as they attack."Quote:
Originally Posted by Xitra
"Instantly" is misleading, very much. A dragon takes a long time to send the first breath. This makes a big difference when being attacked by archers, for example.
Yes. Need a new level dragon. Dragons are the best, and they have been left behind. Suggest a level 5 dragon should have more hit points, more damage, but also more range and more speed.
You will get your Dragon level 5 at Town Hall 11.
Then you will say it is too weak and want level 6...
Only if they under do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by xDee
yes u never know, they added the DE Drill to townhall 7 and the 4th mortar to townhall 8.
Quote:
Originally Posted by George1971
lol not a chance. that would make them way too OP. And Supercell has never changed speed or range from leveling up either.
> Supercell has never ...Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomness2016
Is SC incapable of innovation?
Whether an upgrade is OverPowered is a question of degree of the upgrade. Dragons are a little too slow, with a short range, these things make them undesired at high level. A small improvement here would be better than a very large HP or DPS increase.
They wouldn't be too op if you didn't increase the damage too much and instead give large enough buff to their health so that they can and actually survive a maxed air defence (if they're lucky, those things are crazy!)
An advantage of giving them more range and speed (mostly range) is that they can stay out of range of an AD a bit longer, giving them an advantage over the very strong ADs.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOnlySlenderFox
Giving a level 5 dragon enough HP and DPS to match an AD means that the dragon will be overpowered after defeating the AD, with respect to the rest of the air defences.
On the other side, I think generally air troops have too much HP, and the ADs have too much DPS. Am actually finding that hordes of minions tank (sacrifice) for balloons better than dragons.
Hmm, interesting thought about the minions. Air bombs and wizards will tear them up, as will archer towers. On the other hand, an AD typically takes about 10 shots to kill a dragon, versus 10 shots to kill 10 minions. No advantage there, other than the minions bring more DPS. But if two AD's are firing, they will tend to target the same minion or dragons, in which case it's 5 shots for the dragon, 10 shots for the 10 minions.Quote:
Originally Posted by George1971
I'm not willing to test it in war, but maybe I'll play around with it during regular matchmaking.
I hadn't fully analysed... but minions clustering around the AD destroying it in seconds is a typical image. The DPS advantage matters. As does the speed. The dragon in the corner that destroyer the hut takes a very long time to get to the AD to start applying DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xitra
Air bombs are the real bane of minions, countered by using them second and very spread out and in waves.
Actually, the DPS from Dragon vs AD and Minion vs AD is about the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xitra
10 Minions do about twice the Damage of a Dragon, but u loose 1 Minion each second.
1 Dragon makes half damage of 10 minions, but u dont loose Damage in the fight.
So the damage evens out.