Add Defense Incentives

No problem on numbering them. It helps in referencing.

More I think about it, more I feel as though rewards of gold, elixir, and dark elixir for those able, is just awkward for defence wins. Not saying there shouldn't be something, but gaining loot, while getting looted just makes the 'magically materializing/multiplying money' issue even worse. "I got attacked and looted for 100k! :( and... made 35k profit?! Wait ♥♥♥! How?!:confused:" Salvaging Elixir and Dark Elixir makes sense, and can help with an idea I have in mind.

Loot Loss Rage (working name for now)
You get troop taining bonus effects based on what was robbed from you, with the max bonus given if looted up to the storage loot cap for your Town Hall level.

For Elixir and Dark Elixir theift, you get something like either a reduction of troop training time for the respective normal and dark elixir troops (like ½, stackable with gem boosting somehow) or maybe X amount of banked trianing time you can use for instantly trainable troops. I would suggest that maybe instead there is a cost reduction, but I don't know how unbalanced that would make things.

Getting your gold looted could give bankable shield time (instead of the current shield system), or a boosting in defence for a time, since logically the base would be more alart on future attacks, and would incress the chance of a win from another person attacking shortly after being attacked before.

'Worth Fighting For' Bonus (working title)
Something else that came to mind, if basing things on some degree of common sense logic, is a base would be more on 'high alart' if storages are full, than if empty. There could be a preemptive bonus on defence, to help equalize the cost/reward ratio for bases that are loaded with loot verse ones that aren't. Say for example the lootable about is 50% of storage cap. then there is no bonus, but no penalty in defence. People have something to defend, but aren't going to put extraordinary effort into guarding.

If there is nothing, they aren't going to worry at all about an attack, since who raids an empty base?! (lets get drunk and play games! maybe that one archer chick will go out with me, than with that pompous wizard with the big hair?) Then the base defence are sub par, and easier to defeat with the same attacking army, but you get little loot as a result.

If the lootable cap is max, base is on high alart, and for good reason. They know they have something worth taking, and need to be ready when that loot hungery raid comes and attacks. With the same army, you may actually lose, but if balanced right, you would get a out the same amount of loot, on average... depends on the base, your army, and how you attack. You maybe lucky to get a 50% win, but could get that loot and really be victorious. Could even get an attack reward bonus for beating such a primed for defence base!

I hate how fast threads can sink here.

Really! Want some feedback on these ideas! I'm trying not to spam the forum with new idea after new idea thread for this tough issue.

If loot bonuses for defense isn't the answer, what about some other bonus?

I really should add some of these ideas on the original post, like I promised... But I don't know what is worth putting up. :(

I have verbally sparred with you in the past about the exposed TH issues. I will never, NEVER, consider it an exploit of the game and still consider it a strategic decision **stomps feet and gestures wildly with hands**

However.......

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wait for it

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I think that your idea has merit. I have to admit that my mind is complete mush after reading page after page of lengthy arguments and counter-arguments for this idea, so I don't feel capable of a witty and in-depth contribution. But I do think that the costs of defending your base are astronomical.

Case in point, last night I used my war base as my main base to see how she held up (yes, my village is a she and she is quite feisty and fierce:cool:). I was attacked four times in a row, and I won all four defenses (yay me!). As a TH 10 I have a lot of pricey bombs and traps. Two of the attackers took about 120k each loot from me, the other two only about 50k each, average. When I logged on and had to reset my base it cost over 100k gold, 300 de and maybe 70k lix (not sure of exact numbers). So for those few pretty, pretty trophies it easily cost me over 300k each in loot, plus some de. Now, as someone who is not on 24/7, I also got attacked several times during the day. This is really starting to add up!!!

So I don't know if the answer is a loot reward for defensive wins, grace periods, or one of your other suggestions. But I agree that this is a subject that deserves more contemplation and, hopefully, consideration by SC.

P.S. The guy who used the Princess Bride quote, *fistbump*. Pure awesomeness
P.P.S. To the guy who thinks defenses are pointless and 'passive'. Playa please. So ridiculous that it doesn't deserve an actual response.

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Originally Posted by k2aries

I have verbally sparred with you in the past about the exposed TH issues. I will never, NEVER, consider it an exploit of the game and still consider it a strategic decision **stomps feet and gestures wildly with hands**

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As another person that gets stubborn and sticks to thier ideals, but otherwise is open minded, I cannot find fault with your determination to stick with what you believe. Even if I believe I'm correct on the issue :p

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Originally Posted by k2aries

I think that your idea has merit. I have to admit that my mind is complete mush after reading page after page of lengthy arguments and counter-arguments for this idea, so I don't feel capable of a witty and in-depth contribution. But I do think that the costs of defending your base are astronomical.

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Tell me about it :eek: http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...=1#post3674634 In a different post, I got screen shots of my Defense log, and have some sizeable loot losses, even for a 'win'. Only reason I tolerate it is because it is fun to see my defenses work. As you can imagine, Tower Defense games are another thing I like :p

Can totaly understand the 'mushy headed' feeling from long posts. One reason why the first argument ticked me off was so much work was being put into arguing about a tangent issue, that it totaly delayed and wasted time on what the real topic was about. People can only read so much before they shut down (had that issue often in school :() and having that as the first thing people see is a real turn off and thread killer.

So anyone else starting up stuff like that, I will report. I just don't have the time for that kind of argument, valid or otherwise. It does not belong here, and I'll keeping my thread on topic, damn it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by k2aries

So I don't know if the answer is a loot reward for defensive wins, grace periods, or one of your other suggestions. But I agree that this is a subject that deserves more contemplation and, hopefully, consideration by SC.

P.S. The guy who used the Princess Bride quote, *fistbump*. Pure awesomeness
P.P.S. To the guy who thinks defenses are pointless and 'passive'. Playa please. So ridiculous that it doesn't deserve an actual response.

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More I thought about it, the more I feel loot from a defence win is just awkward. Salvaging Elixir and Dark Elixir from troops would be great, but Gold rewards seem odd. Salvaging Elixirs, along with the two recent ideas of boosting things would encourage more attacking, and mean faster recovery of loot from other bases. With the recent suggestions I seem to be coming up with, it puts an odd twist on the phrase 'violence begets violence', and 'more violence' in this game (as in more fun attacks) is good. :cool:

On a note about the shield ideas (30 min grace period & night shield): Those will likely be a sperate idea thread later on, given how they are more meant to make the game in-line with the casual, low time pressure, feel that other aspects like raiding and Clan Wars have, with a given period of time to do them while one has real life things to do as well. Even a battle is at most 3 minutes, which one can do on a lunch break at work.

I haven't read the entire thread (a lot of useless rambling and arguing...) but I really agree with the original post!

I like the defence bonus idea.
I made an idea about how the defence can be award.
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...he-pot-of-gold

The only counter-argument in the posts of this thread seems to be "defense is meaningless because that's the way the game is"

Now that's not a comment I'd expect from someone who enters the "ideas and feature requests" subforum!! The whole point of the OP is that defense is meaningless AS THE GAME IS RIGHT NOW, so you are just agreeing on him and saying he should shut up.

The main point of discussion should be, IMO, if the way the game is designed right now (regarding defense) is what all the users want, not the trivilaity of saying "the game is designed the way it's designed"

Based on the amount of base designers out there, and the new game feature that allows you to have 6 designs at hand, I'd say most people enjoy the base designing aspect of the game a lot. So having it be a little more relevant in your overall game progress would be excellent for most of the community.


I agree that the game is poorly designed regarding defense: once you just started playing you are counseled to center your townhall because it is the most important building in your village. Now, it doesn't pass a lot of time until you realize that having your townhall outside aids you with a more probable "cheap" shield, as you start becoming concious about the ephimerous nature of trophies, and how the best way to push up is just attacking a ton. Hell, I'd go far enough to say that once you are at a league where players have a lot of game expirience, you are just getting skipped by the ones who can't win and if you center your TH you are most likely to be 2-stared while leaving it out in the cold you'd have a decent chance to just get 1-stared and lose just half that trophies.

This whole point about leaving your TH outside seems to me more like "abusing" the game design to farm better, and that shouldn't be the point of the building, just sacrificing it to gain a shiel (rolewise everyone should be protecting the townhall of his or her village!!)

Now please don't reply with "in fact you SHOULD leave your TH out if you are farming" because everyone interested in a change of the defense system knows it better than any other. The whole point of it just feels like it doesn't go well with the concept of building and protecting your village and the people that live there.

I'd recommend a mini shield between successful defenses, and keep the 12-16 hour shield for losses. Or maybe a defense-win bonus that builds up with every consecutive defensive victory and is broken once you are defeated.

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Originally Posted by MrRobito

I'd recommend a mini shield between successful defenses, and keep the 12-16 hour shield for losses. Or maybe a defense-win bonus that builds up with every consecutive defensive victory and is broken once you are defeated.

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It would need to be a serious defense bonus to compensate for the lost loot from consecutive attacks.

Woo! Support! Thanks! :D

Yeah, the first argument on defense being useless just derailed things, and knew it was getting me nowhere. I just eventually said stop or get reported, and I rarely just threaten that. On top of that, it can be a thread killer, since you have the original message, and then a sea of TL-DR posts, and then at that point the view can easily say 'to hell with it' and move on. So yeah.. not very please with them on that for a number of reasons.

That aside, I plan on editing the first post with updated ideas and clean things up. I may actually post on that post as to where the real discussion starts, and at what part of the thread the first post got changed and updated. That way people don't get confused by posts referring to things that changed or not there anymore.

I want to have this thread hold several ideas on how to fix this issue than be separated into several threads, that way things are in one spot and easy to get to. I'm more than willing to manage this thread so to keep things organized.

As BinBender said, "It would need to be a serious defense bonus to compensate for the lost loot from consecutive attacks." and that's what I'm wanting to hammer out here. Just making the exposed Town Hall layout less appealing (aka use 'negative reinforcement' as said in psychology. Not 'negative' as in bad or poor idea) will just drive people way from the game as a whole, since there is nothing viable to look forward to currently. So something new to defence to attract people to a new method (aka 'positive reinforcement') needs to be done first before anything else.

This is hard, since finding a logical incentive for defence (not real-life logical, but gameplay logical) is rather awkward when you start looking at the effects of ideas closely. What seems good at first glance can turn out to be a poor idea once you've done the logic work on it to figure out how people will react to it.

In short, expect ideas to not pan out and see a lot of failed ideas.

Good news is that we just need a few good ones and the issue is closer to being solved! Cost for failure: wasted some casual time and words on an idea. Reward for success: A much MUCH improved game. So let's keep at it and take our best shots at the goal. One or two of those shots are bound to do it. And each failed idea means it is one direction we know were not to go, which is still progress if we learn from it.