Add Defense Incentives

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Originally Posted by Recruiterbob

What ever the bonus is it isn't going to be as high as what your storages filled can have taken. 400+k. If it was we would sit in some lower league like c2 and let the th8 zap us for huge loot. KKnowing they can't star us.

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To a good degree, I need the point of view of people like you on this to help hammer out details. While coming up with ideas, I need to know what wrong direction people will be going with a given idea.

Sounds like the defence bonus would have to correspond with what league you are in, and.. I don't know, damage taken, or amount of enemy troops kill? Would be amusing that defence win bonus loot would turn DE zapping on it's head, with people wanting to be zapped. lol

Damn, suddenly this defence loot bonus thing is sounding like some home insurance fraud scheme.

I still have a hard time figuring out how getting loot from being attacked and partly looted makes any intuitive sense. Only thing that makes sense is the Elixir from defeated enemy units, since you salvage it from the troops, which is already done to a minor degree with tombstones. Not sure how gold could factor into that.

If loot isn't going to be enough, what other things can be awarded (no not gems) for a defence win that makes sense? Got Shield time banking...

Hmm.. what about a bonus to troop training times, or a reward of X seconds worth of training time discounts? The village was attacked, people are eager to attack back, so training times are reduced.

Along the same lines, maybe a troop cost discount to some degree.

Note: they may not be great ideas. Just throwing out possiblies and seeing what sticks. Better here in one thread than in bunch of spam my threads.

The original poster and I agree. I think something needs to be done!

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...conomic-Tweaks

Adding a defense bonus to the nix fits in nicely with the tweaks I suggest.

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Originally Posted by dahimi

Attacking is active. You select a target and drop the troops. Success or failure is completely dependent on your skill at choosing a target compatible with your army as well as ability to deploy troops successfully.

Defending is passive. If you're lucky you get to watch. That's it. You talk about your awesome layout all you want, but it makes no difference. The attacker is in the driver's seat. They choose the target and they are the ones who win or lose.

Now if they add a change to the game where you can interfere with the attack if you catch them you may have a point.

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Since you chose not to read this I will reply directly to you.

passive...Dahimi, you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. - Princess Bride quote...

Passive - accepting or allowing what happens or what others do, without active response or resistance.

Defense does not fall into this category. Defense actively protects your base, there is no off switch for defense.

Hero's can become passive, if you put them in the sleep mode.

After reading this whole thing, even the combative parts, I have to agree it has merit.

I did look at the counter arguments, (I.E. Attacking is active, defending is passive) and did not agree with that. Speaking for myself I put a lot of work into my defense so I can't really call it passive. Even though one not present at the time it is still the fruits of their labors. Also there is the point that was made that a good defense requires constant checking in to replenish CC and reset traps 9which costs) so that that is activity.

It also might add a little edge to the game if you are risking something attacking a guy, a percentage of our expense goes to the other. (but what if the person doesn't have it? so there are details to be figured out).

Its hard to volunteer SC to foot the bill. (just not our call to make, and also a lot of suggestions are doomed by the posters assumption that SC would not mind paying out extra) so I am not sure about having a defensive bonus similar to the loot bonus. And having the winner bonus go to the defenders is having SC foot the bill since currently in that situation they pay nothing.

So I am not sure where the money could come from I think that is the sticking point, but the overall principle that a good defender deserves something, does have merit.

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Originally Posted by dahimi

Attacking is active. You select a target and drop the troops. Success or failure is completely dependent on your skill at choosing a target compatible with your army as well as ability to deploy troops successfully.

Defending is passive. If you're lucky you get to watch. That's it. You talk about your awesome layout all you want, but it makes no difference. The attacker is in the driver's seat. They choose the target and they are the ones who win or lose.

Now if they add a change to the game where you can interfere with the attack if you catch them you may have a point.

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I had the idea to use spells as a defensive tool, like lightning, if lightningspell could be used to defend your village during an attack it would give the defender a bigger chance to defend his village. Since you need to be offline to be attacked its a small chance that someone actually get back in the game in time. But if you get in game in time and you throw that lightning on your attackers troops, It will be very funny to watch

More I think about it, the more it feels like some kind of insurance fraud getting gold from defence wins. At lest with Elixir and Dark Elixir, there is already presidence for getting it after a battle... granted it is chump change, but it could be expanded on.

In that regard, still trying to think of something that would be an incentive for subjecting your base to attack.

Actually got attacked 3 times last night for being offline for just a few minutes at the wrong time, even though I was offline other times for much longer with no problem. I was posting here while raiding for loot. Had over ⅔ of a million Elixir looted, and 3,400 Dark Elixir taken as well, and was needing Elixir for a lvl 3 drill upgrade. And of course could have uses the DE for a King upgrade by now. But.. well.. Can revenge attack later when the time is right, and thier base is full. I barely have half full Elixir storages, and I already hit the lootable cap, so any attempt to get the minimum amount of loot to pay for something at this TH level sets you up for getting the max amount taken from you. That said, I'm so glad there IS a cap, or I'd be losing more per raid than 250k Elixir per attack. I lost 2 attacks, and 'won' one attack from a well planned loot gutting attack on my centralized storages with goblins as a kind of wall breaking path maker. They looted everything just barely in time before my AoE defences killed the grouped up goblins (damn lvl 5-6 buggers are fast!!1!!1!)

A TH8, looted horribly (for my level), got a useless shield twice, because I had to break it to keep raiding, and raid more to catchup from the loss. And knowing full well I'd be attacked again, I made sure I had enough spare loot to cover the loss of yet another raid, that I hoped was strong enough to give a shield for the night. Which thankfully, did happen, and predicably took that last 250k of Elixir.

I'm just damn glad I can loot faster than I can lose, it I'd be sunk.

Anyone see a problem or two with that common situation? For example, I got a defence win, but lost all my loot? How the hell is that a win? lol, oh sure, the arbitrary 50% damage threshold didn't get met, and 'lucked out' and didn't have my Town all wrecked, but did get a shield from them making the arbitrary threshold of 40%... which I had to waste because I still needed to raid enough loot for my soon to be freed up Builder.

So, yeah.. what kind of reward is worth up to 250k gold and elixir, and 1300 dark elixir if your base still (jokingly) wins? And odds are you will loss attacks, because no one attacks bases for the loss, unless doing trophy drops. Sure some raids just fail, but experienced players will attack a base they think they have a good chance of winning. Which is why, with my strong base, I usually only get hit by TH9s, with the occasionally TH10. Well prepared TH8s still attack, but not that often.

Now if I could have banked even half that shield time from those raid loses (and joking win) while raiding, I wouldn't have to have required to raid more than needed, just to cover losses for when I did want a shield! Farm layout or not, I still would have needed to make that buffer of loot, just in case someone came with an army that could break the base before some cheap trophy huning sniper came and saved my loot for me.

Talk about all sorts of wrong and @#$%ed up. If defence doesn't seem worth it, and there is an easy way to get a shield, people just hide behind the shield, which takes them out of the loop of possible bases to attack, which I can understand wholy, but it basicly makes the other half of the game, attacking, harder, and less fun.

So ♥♥♥ is a good defence reward or defence incentive? Both attack and defence are connected. If defence isn't that painful, more people will be available for attack, and less feeling the need to go 'turtle' behind a min-maxed metagamed shield giving base. Suggestions to make it better are already posted, and I'm open to more ideas to help fix this.

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

After reading this whole thing, even the combative parts, I have to agree it has merit.

I did look at the counter arguments, (I.E. Attacking is active, defending is passive) and did not agree with that. Speaking for myself I put a lot of work into my defense so I can't really call it passive. Even though one not present at the time it is still the fruits of their labors. Also there is the point that was made that a good defense requires constant checking in to replenish CC and reset traps 9which costs) so that that is activity.

It also might add a little edge to the game if you are risking something attacking a guy, a percentage of our expense goes to the other. (but what if the person doesn't have it? so there are details to be figured out).

Its hard to volunteer SC to foot the bill. (just not our call to make, and also a lot of suggestions are doomed by the posters assumption that SC would not mind paying out extra) so I am not sure about having a defensive bonus similar to the loot bonus. And having the winner bonus go to the defenders is having SC foot the bill since currently in that situation they pay nothing.

So I am not sure where the money could come from I think that is the sticking point, but the overall principle that a good defender deserves something, does have merit.

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SC already foots the bill for successful attack, where do you think the league win bonus come from? why not for defense. It's not like it would kill them, it would help the economy.

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Originally Posted by TheRealchrism

SC already foots the bill for successful attack, where do you think the league win bonus come from? why not for defense..

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I think you skimmed my post and did not catch all that was said.

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Originally Posted by TheRealchrism

It's not like it would kill them, it would help the economy.

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I think when its someone else's wallet its for them to decide what level of loss should and should not trouble them.

If you still disagree then I ask - If its such a trifling amount why don't we take the payouts from your base? Are you ok with that?

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

I think you skimmed my post and did not catch all that was said.

I think when its someone else's wallet its for them to decide what level of loss should and should not trouble them.

If you still disagree then I ask - If its such a trifling amount why don't we take the payouts from your base? Are you ok with that?

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meh, everyone would be in bronze:D

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Originally Posted by WarrenJames

Some possible solutions are... (which are not all original)

1. Defence loot reward of somekind for holding off an attack, to counter the loot loss from the raid and make wining feel like a real win.
2. Gain percentage of enemy unit cost for each killed unit. Gain something from a well built base that is able to hold off a strong attack, win or lose.
3. Mini shield of 30-60 minute (or more) after any attack that expends some of your resources (like tripped traps, CC troops killed, or 'significant loot loss), so a casual player has time to rearm and refill thier base with much less stress than we have now.
4. Nighttime shield option, where after hitting a threshold, even after winning, you get a 8-12 hour sheild for your base, keeping with the casual form of play people want to have, and actually sleep! Nighttime shield has a cool down to prevent abuse.

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Please forgive that I changed your quote from bullets to numbers. Regarding 1&2 I like them but the prinicle of asking SC to foot any bill is a deal breaker. Regarding 3&4 (paying with shield instead of loot) I think you are onto more of a path there.

You make a good point that a base with really good defense can go several raids without getting beaten and so it would be nice to earn it a respite like a base with weaker defenses gets for being beaten.

I am concerned about what this does to available bases to attack though too. With more bases under shield the nexting becomes heavier. Should a shield given on successful defense be less long? Maybe a variable time calculated by the amount of loot stolen plus trap cost? In fact maybe that would be good for unsuccessful defenses too? If you got razed but there was only 1k available in your base how much have you suffered really.