Compartments Vs Vault

I guess majority of forum members here think, that dividing your containers to limit the damage is the way to make the best base. It may be on higher range of trophies, but perhaps there is another way...

I have read and studied carefully Ping's and Jun's base designs, the two possibly most highly rated farming bases along with hundreds of other designs. But I find that they all share the common feature: divided assets. The feature is both their weakness but of course also their strength: the ability to LIMIT the damage and resources lost. What this does is twofolded. For one, it limits the amount of resources lost and also keeps away some attackers, namely farmers. But what also happens, is that the 98% of players not reading the forums and going for 100% gold stolen, they have it relatively easy to take a portion of the resources even with poorly executed attacks and not necessarily even give a shield. So you might lose only 1/3 of your resources per attack, but what if the attacks just keep coming and repeating the same small loss?

So I figured, there has to be a better way to store my precious loot. Looking around, all the builds I had seen so far that had the resources in one big compartment... Pretty much sucked. They were easy to loot and the most common design was 3 layers of walls stuck together, wrapped around the containers and couple of defences. We've all seen those and stolen all the loot from them :) but the idea was sound, to protect the resources with all you got and keep away those 30% losses. By that time, the wb changes had just been implemented, so such builds were more or less pointless.

(continues on next post so the #%!£$> browser doesn't AGAIN eat my post)

Yup, thats the way it is with segmented core vs single core bases.

Segmented core
-Hard to get all storage
-Easy to lose one storage

Single core
-Hard to get even 1 storage
-Easy to get all storages

I agree that having a single core base in general is decent, as majority of the attackers in our farming range are weak-decent attacks, meaning they cant even enter your core, much less taking a single gold/de storage at all.

But it doesn't shine at all, when face with stronger attackers.
Bear that in mind, now let me touch on segmented core base now.

Segmented core base wise, indeed, in theory, it would be much easier to lose 1 storage against majority of the attackers.

But~
What if, you improve on the weakness of the con of a segmented core base ?
Meaning, increase the difficulty in even losing 1 storage.

And if you ask me,
"Increase difficulty of losing 1 storage of segmented core base"
VS
"Increase difficulty of losing all storage of single core base"

Increase difficulty of losing 1 storage of segmented core base is much easier.

Not to mention, when taking about base design ranking, mano-a-mano revenges, segmented core bases shine.
Its not per se "bragging rights", but simply just some bonus points haha :p

Anyway, ping base is not entirely segmented, considering the storage are pretty close in its farming configuration.

My 2 cents.

Maybe I should try a single core base someday before I hit th9 :p

To end my post, here is a little 2 in 1 defensive vid for you to enjoy :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNYbD...AB4Dv&index=94

The first design to tackle this problem was the "Moat build", which I find in many places, one form or the other.
http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/...ps63073728.jpg
The idea is simple: to keep the archers away & provide multiple layers of walls between attacker and your precious resources. I coupled the core with full round of defences all around the core and then another layer of wall to protect them. I also prefer to use springtraps in this "run around" as that is where giants like to stay because there is one defence after another. The core could be easily changed to fit the needs of the player, but the same idea: CC in the middle, couple defences and cople containers" remain the same. On TH8, there are enough walls to wrap this all nicely around with the third layer, where you put your elixir and all the remaining defences.

Yes, it looks devilishly simple but you would not believe how often people fail miserably, trying to go through three layers of walls like that. And because it is soooo sinple, people usually start by dropping your TH, which is located somewhere along the fence to able to take it down with few archers (or covered by a mortar to ensue hilarious replays).

But, this design can't hold off a smart and more powerfull attack.

(to be continued...)

So, I ugraded to TH9, perhaps tad too soon, but my lab was out of units I use so th9 time was calling...

The first week, before xbows were up, my new and improved "Moat with alligators" was attacked repeatedly but breached ONCE the whole time. One loot later I had cut my losses and was back on upgrading everything.

The biggest difference on the original moat, was that the new wb AI was taken into account, along with the splash they do. Also the defences were more protected while still keeping the merry-go-round for attackers to get lost in the way. A smart attacker with spells has a chance to pierce all the way in, yes, but such attack haven't yet happened in 2 months. The biggest loss of gold so far is 77k, done with 3 lightning spells to the containers. One attacker has managed to have 3 or so archers survive long enough to shoot over the wall for 70k gold, but that's it. The inner core wall has yet to be touched...

I know well the limits of my build nor am I saying it's the best build by far. My point is that instead of losing 1/3, it is possible to keep 99% of the attacks getting none :cool:

http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/...ps3a6c3243.jpg

Current build, standing alone again for over 8 hrs without being attacked today. Lab & TH are swapping places when I want to be at peace ;)

It should be obvious by looking at the build, that I'm protecting only gold and not lix or dlix. Still get spelllooted on daily basis once it hits 20k stored... and that I'm not nowhere near max out th9 ;)

The same principle applies to investing. One of the core ideas when investing, whether it's the stock market or just a 401k, is to diversify your wealth so when one area gets hit, the others can be doing alright or even growing. Investing everything you have into one business contains a huge amount of risk; the same as putting all of your resources in one compartment. When symmetry and aesthetics don't get in my way, I even go so far as to keep my elixer collectors and gold mines diversified so that an attacker cannot take whatever it is they're looking for so easily.

Investing is tad different than storing the loot. You can only lose money from storage, never gain from an attack... yet at least.

Let me give you an example:
Base 1, th9 so 4 containers. Has 8 million stored. Gold divided in 4 compartments.
Base 2, th9 & also 8 mill gold. Gold in one well protected core.

Both get attacked the "normal" amount, trophy range 1400ish. After 100 attacks, both might have gotten once 100% while others 10-50% damage to base.
Base 1 has lost over that time 75*50k gold + 1*200k +100*1000 (th)
Base 2 has lost 1*200k + 100*1000

I'm not a math wizz but I like my odds :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OJM

Investing is tad different than storing the loot. Let me give you an example:
Base 1, th9 so 4 containers. Has 8 million stored. Gold divided in 4 compartments.
Base 2, th9 & also 8 mill gold. Gold in one well protected core.

Both get attacked the "normal" amount, trophy range 1400ish. After 100 attacks, both might have gotten once 100% while others 10-50% damage to base.
Base 1 has lost over that time 75*50k gold + 1*200k +100*1000 (th)
Base 2 has lost 1*200k + 100*1000

I'm not a math wizz but I like my odds :)

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Haha.. if you are going to have such bias mindset, whats the point of creating a thread when you are so dead set on your decision ? :)

1*200k only for Base 2 ? thats quite optimistic, my friend...

As said in the 2nd post of this thread, its possible to increase difficulty of getting even 1 storage for segmented storage.

But for single core storage, its much harder to increase difficulty of getting all storage, once they are inside your core.

Again, my 2 cents. If you like it, carry on :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Junliang

Haha.. if you are going to have such bias mindset, whats the point of creating a thread when you are so dead set on your decision ? :)

1*200k only for Base 2 ? thats quite optimistic, my friend...

As said in the 2nd post of this thread, its possible to increase difficulty of getting even 1 storage for segmented storage.

But for single core storage, its much harder to increase difficulty of getting all storage, once they are inside your core.

Again, my 2 cents. If you like it, carry on :)

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Bias mindset? Hardly. As I said earlier, I am well aware of the limitations of my build. If I would go higher up in trophies, I would change my base to compartments, but down here, stealing the candy from the first graders, the single core works for me much better. And my build isn't the typical all eggs in one basket, only the gold is in the core while my elixir is spread around and dlix is in it's own cloister. For lightning-rain, the dlix separately is working wonders ;) the wizard towers in the core are freshly updated, 9d overlapped update, yet it held just fine :)

But are you saying, that you can put fully divided containers behind enough walls on all sides and protected by enough defences that you cannot get to even one container with a looting army? Sure, with maxed out th9 you can do a lot of thing but you gotta be able to hold on to the gold till then ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OJM

Investing is tad different than storing the loot. You can only lose money from storage, never gain from an attack... yet at least.

Let me give you an example:
Base 1, th9 so 4 containers. Has 8 million stored. Gold divided in 4 compartments.
Base 2, th9 & also 8 mill gold. Gold in one well protected core.

Both get attacked the "normal" amount, trophy range 1400ish. After 100 attacks, both might have gotten once 100% while others 10-50% damage to base.
Base 1 has lost over that time 75*50k gold + 1*200k +100*1000 (th)
Base 2 has lost 1*200k + 100*1000

I'm not a math wizz but I like my odds :)

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Frankly if you are sitting at 1400 trophies with high level defenses, it doesn't really matter.

The Base 1 and Base 2 case are the same. You could probably even remove the walls entirely and repel attacks.

Take your base but instead make it a typical th8 base. The xbows would be gone. Your mortars would probably be level 5 or so and the wizard towers level 3 or so. It would get steam rolled.

A base that separated the gold storages would have a much better chance of retaining some of them.

Segmented bases shine against overwhelming force because the segments slow the troops down. Once an overwhelming force breaches a compartment, it clears that compartment. Troops generally have a hard time moving from compartment to compartment though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OJM

Investing is tad different than storing the loot. You can only lose money from storage, never gain from an attack... yet at least.

Let me give you an example:
Base 1, th9 so 4 containers. Has 8 million stored. Gold divided in 4 compartments.
Base 2, th9 & also 8 mill gold. Gold in one well protected core.

Both get attacked the "normal" amount, trophy range 1400ish. After 100 attacks, both might have gotten once 100% while others 10-50% damage to base.
Base 1 has lost over that time 75*50k gold + 1*200k +100*1000 (th)
Base 2 has lost 1*200k + 100*1000

I'm not a math wizz but I like my odds :)

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As someone who's ROI was 15% this last quarter, I appreciate now knowing that investing is different than storing loot. Thank you :p. Every analogy has its breakdown, but that doesn't make it invalid.

Your example is based on the assumption that core vs segmented bases are attacked with equal frequency. Even though it's an assumption (maybe we can do a poll on it), I'd guess that most experienced players would rather use all of their troops to attack a base where all the resources are together. When I search, after I look at the maximum loot to be gained, my second goal is to identify where the resources are (segmented or core). If they're segmented, there's a higher chance I will hit NEXT. If they're in a core, you can be guaranteed I'm spending a long time finding the weak points that will allow me to drill into the middle wit 40-60 goblins and take as much as possible in the shortest amount of time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Play3r1

Your example is based on the assumption that core vs segmented bases are attacked with equal frequency. Even though it's an assumption (maybe we can do a poll on it), I'd guess that most experienced players would rather use all of their troops to attack a base where all the resources are together. When I search, after I look at the maximum loot to be gained, my second goal is to identify where the resources are (segmented or core). If they're segmented, there's a higher chance I will hit NEXT. If they're in a core, you can be guaranteed I'm spending a long time finding the weak points that will allow me to drill into the middle wit 40-60 goblins and take as much as possible in the shortest amount of time.

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I think it is safe to assume, that of the 99 attacks, 75 gold containers were looted... But even if the number was a lot less, it would still be more frequent than a well protected core has. I'm not trying to convince anyone to change their base to a core as it can take weeks, if not months to fine-tune it to work how one wants. This is more my story on how I see the game situation but perhaps as I'm not competing against others, I see thing differently ;) I also don't see the battle as defeat when I walk away with tons of loots but loss of cups, but I think that is more common :D

One of the reasons for this topic is also to point out, that there are other viable options for designing the base other than the compartments. I see way too many fully compartmentalized places with golden or lower walls, where the benefit of the compartments are close to 0. Course in such a case, the vault would not prove to be any better either. Yet the simple moat, that I did show earlier, works wonders already on new TH8s, as long as you keep your trophies under 1600. Lulling into false illusion, that compartments will save any base is the downfall of many, don't you agree?

Farmers in general don't attack well defended TH9's....that is why your eggshell isn't being cracked.

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Originally Posted by chajado67

Farmers in general don't attack well defended TH9's....that is why your eggshell isn't being cracked.

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So true :) The few revenges on the other hand have put a lot of effort, but I think the mindset of "I keel you, you stole my loot mothaf#%$£" might have clouded the judgement of few, thus failing... 6 Pekkas, wizards+rage, 495 gold lost... 10 dragons+3 lightnings, 1300 gold :) The last two big attackers :cool:

As I have moved on from the Vault build, I thought to give more detailed info about why the design did work much better than many would expect.
http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/...psb702c628.jpg
So this is the last version of the Vault, still far from complete, but fully functional.

The idea is relatively simple. A big, open, trapped area, sealed inside the outmost wall. The outer wall was never ment to keep people out, but to keep the ones breaching in well contained. Sending barbs/archers all around is of course a recipe for an epic fail against the fort, but such is the case in all better designed bases.

What happens when the wall is breached and units start pooring in? There comes the next design feature in to play. Unit targetting. There is plenty of "food" for both giants and goblins to go around. In almost all attacks, this is where the attack fails. Giants stay on the circle and get hammered by defences. If the giants decide on rare cases to go deeper, only the cloisters interest them, so giants leave the middle cloister alone as there are no defences. Same time goblins aren't attracted to the core either, as there are two layers of walls between the deployment and the core. The clan troops rush to battle only, if the out layer is breached, so luring them all out ment, that you had to be inside for good ten seconds or more.

The two wizards closest to the core provide the vital punch of the design. Without them, the gold is exposed. But even if one is taken down, the gold is still well protected from goblins.

The dark elixir container was used as a bait when it was bit more loaded and as a simple tank when it was empty. The teslas did surprise and hammer down many attacks, including 10 dragon attack. The wizards shown in the picture, under construction, had their designated places near the exposed elixir containers. I just never got far enough to have them fully upgraded and in action.

The design, to work at full capacity, does require better than average core walls and upgraded defences, but it does provide excellent defence for 4 containers.

Up to the day it was taken down, the core walls were NEVER breached. Three gold containers were lost due archer queens, total. Two months and well under million gold lost was a success in my books. Most gold lost went to lightning rains, which did occur on weekly basis, taking max of 70k gold a go. Trophy range 1100 - 1700. 95% of the time having more than a million gold in containers.

Rest in peace old friend. :)

If you need any assistance in creating a vault, just ask :)

Well here is my base. I believe in the compartment more so than the vault simply because my defenses arent yet strong enough to hold up against a full flood of gobs and rage spells;). However it completely depends on your "intimidation" factor of your defenses. I do see multiple pluses to having a compartment heavy base.

With compartments,
it forces to player attacking you to either,
1. full flood for one compartment and grab what they can.
or
2. spread troops across whole base and pray for the best.

when it comes to vault bases these are my favorites to hit. I completely neglect any other aspect of the base if i can hit the vault and flood with gobs rage combo as stated before.But once again it truely all depends on you placement of splash defenses and actual level of them all together

so with that i can say,
weak-low defenses: compartments
mid- above average:compartments or vaults with caution
above average-max: vaults or compartments,
max: whatever the heck you feel like, if you are farming it isnt like anyone has the balls to attack you anyways

totally forgot to post my layout xD oopsAttachment 9267

Interesting thread...I like the idea! Definitely love to see some more base designs from you and/or Jun!

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Originally Posted by TheFox

so with that i can say,
weak-low defenses: compartments
mid- above average:compartments or vaults with caution
above average-max: vaults or compartments,
max: whatever the heck you feel like, if you are farming it isnt like anyone has the balls to attack you anyways

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On one part I disagree which many people have hard time to understand. If you have weak defences, the compartments will not save your bacon. There you need to be more smart than just box after box ;)

Your base looks like a modified pokeball-base. It works, no doubt about it.

So many times people, who thought the same way like you do about vaults did try and they all failed, even when the defences weren't that high. In my opinnion, only one attack the whole time did "win" on the attack and I raise hat for the one, who ever it was :) Lvl7 TH, 180 troops, 3* units, 6 wb, rest goblin... Breach, take elixir and leave. Over 200k went along, which I couldn't care less, but still, a profitable, good attack.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheKnight

Interesting thread...I like the idea! Definitely love to see some more base designs from you and/or Jun!

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Thank you :) I will post my new base in 5 hours or so when a builder frees up as I want to clean up the yard first ;)

You give a good argument however I don't think I can feel safe having all my gold storages in one 'vault'. I'm using pingfao's TH8 base and people rarely get one gold storage let alone two or three.

Do you have any replays that you could post of serious attacks?

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Originally Posted by fleXism

You give a good argument however I don't think I can feel safe having all my gold storages in one 'vault'. I'm using pingfao's TH8 base and people rarely get one gold storage let alone two or three.

Do you have any replays that you could post of serious attacks?

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No replays and the base isn't up anymore so can't help with that, sorry. I felt much more safe with the vault than in divided assest base I got now. Changed it because planning on pushing up trophies when got defences higher up :) Higher up in trophies, people use so much more spells so the vault could be in bit more risk. But I'm still confident, it would work even higher than where I visited (1700+). I can well understand, if someone will think "screenshot or it didn't happen", but the Vault did surive mass dragons, Pekkas and other "trophy" armies well, not to mention the countless farming attempts which were fended off with flying colors ;) Two stray WBs did reach the core the whole time, but two isn't enough and they didn't hit the same part anyway. So the core was never breached :) More than many can say, I believe.

Just went through my defences and found this. Most gold ever lost:
http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7bc3e9ce.jpg
3 lightning spells on containers and queen got one down just before dying :)

Nice. That's a pretty big attack, would be interesting to know how the player went about it. Like I said I like the argument but I would probably need to test it myself before I gave any strong pro's or con's on it.

Nice Mexican hat by the way! Haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fleXism

Nice. That's a pretty big attack, would be interesting to know how the player went about it. Like I said I like the argument but I would probably need to test it myself before I gave any strong pro's or con's on it.

Nice Mexican hat by the way! Haha.

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Full push from where the king and queen were. I knew I was lacking the defence there as wizzies were upgrading :)

That was, if not the smartest, one of the smartest attacks I saw the whole time. Failed, yes, but still a good attack :) If nothing else, you can always give a try for the runaround circle. Make max amount of bottlenecks with springtraps in them and enjoy the flying giants-replays ;) Many players in my clan adopted the jogging area for giants with great results. It looks so simple and inviting but offers mostly giant fail (pun intended) :cool:

The hat is a sticker from photobucket :cool: it's just right shape and size for covering the names I think ;)

About 24hrs of compartments was enough... Will post The Vault V2 in couple of days once I get the defences adjusted correctly :cool: Lost more gold on the compartments build in one day than typically in a week with the vault :mad: bloody sidelooters... ;)

Lesson 1. When attacking a vault... Brute force and 4 lightnings on gold gets you...
http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/...ps88d58221.jpg

Modified version of the Vault design with ton of cloisters on the surface. Not currently in use, but fully functional. Lets call this The Cloistervault, shall we?
http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/...psdbdde916.jpg

I am using the core of it but with a runaround instead of cloisters.

I understand where you are going with this but i really think your trophy count is to be appreciated.. when i farm at 1200 and use junliangs circle of 4 storages protected with elixir storages funneled i find all attackers have lvl 4 archers and some have lvl 5 archers.. low lvl players picking of my elixir...
i rarely see a good th 9 down there which is to be understood trophy count is too low for th 9 but good for th 8.. going to about 1600-2000 good th 9s can be found.. their armies would consist of good farming troop setups.. going past 2000 u see the rare farmer.. though his storages are most of the time safe.. past 2000 people ussualy trophy gain. theres good loot up there as i am currently at 2150 trophy gaining.. putting your th outside for me is actually worth it.. people pick my th of and dont go for my storages. sometimes , u get the odd raid where they pick your th of and decide to try to get 2 star but ultimately it depends where your trophy range is.. with lvl 5 archers i cant see myself attacking a guy with a solid th 9 base..

http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/...pscd5fe145.jpg
And here we go, the 100th anniversary edition of the vault, The V2. Defences coming nicely along, bloons ready for bombing and the more symmetrical design ready for action. Traps and funneling greatly improved from the old build, along with better junctions. Still need to reinforce them more. Lots of work to be done still...

First big attack (revenge) on V2, I'm quite pleased...
http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/...ps737fcf12.jpg

Has anyone tried to attack the 'vault' with a jump spell yet? I'm thinking a well placed jump spell and maybe a rage could cripple your core.

That is of course if the person attacking knew what they were doing and used their giants to tank the damage whilst goblins jump and steal gold.

Having all your resources in one place wasn't a bad play before they introduced lightning spells.
Now it's dumb, you'll be hit again and again.

BB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fleXism

Has anyone tried to attack the 'vault' with a jump spell yet? I'm thinking a well placed jump spell and maybe a rage could cripple your core.

That is of course if the person attacking knew what they were doing and used their giants to tank the damage whilst goblins jump and steal gold.

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No jumps, no. But one might be able to do it with it, yes. But spending rage and jump to get max 200k is getting on the lines of pointless if you can get as much without any spells :) that is, from someplace else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bbodega

Having all your resources in one place wasn't a bad play before they introduced lightning spells.
Now it's dumb, you'll be hit again and again.

BB

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The first version of V2 had the gold on flat sides of CC and the first attack did hit the Cc with 4 5* lightnings, netting 82k gold. 88k to get 82k gold isn't quite worth it in my books, bus as it was MY gold, I moved the containers to far corners so good luck lightning them now. Looting gold or elixir with spells, that is what I call "not the most efficient" thing to do... But hey, everyone to their own.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OJM

No jumps, no. But one might be able to do it with it, yes. But spending rage and jump to get max 200k is getting on the lines of pointless if you can get as much without any spells :) that is, from someplace else.


The first version of V2 had the gold on flat sides of CC and the first attack did hit the Cc with 4 5* lightnings, netting 82k gold. 88k to get 82k gold isn't quite worth it in my books, bus as it was MY gold, I moved the containers to far corners so good luck lightning them now. Looting gold or elixir with spells, that is what I call "not the most efficient" thing to do... But hey, everyone to their own.

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Really like your idea, at first base looks like noob square base, which probably fools many attackers, would love to see some replays, that might inspire me to make my own vault :)

said truly like the little girl in those adds....."why dont we have both?"

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Originally Posted by freetime

Really like your idea, at first base looks like noob square base, which probably fools many attackers, would love to see some replays, that might inspire me to make my own vault :)

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Unfortunately 60% of replays are TH takedowns, 39% lightning on Dlix and that 1% haven't happened in a while :) The 9 dragon attack I got few days back was... sad attempt, which didn't really prove too much. :) If they add the export replays feature to the game, I'll put some up, but for now, no replays :)

I know some in my clan use similiar design and they all have reported good results on big attacks. I mean, it's just a box, right? Of course it needs a lot of work to get it working but when the vault works, it really works ;) What I noticed is that on 1300ish I got lightning attacks to dlix and 1600+ people lightning my gold. Guess they get frustrated for not getting in and take it out on my poor containers with spells.

https://webapi.bumpserver.com/v1/dat...d-48798e4ae527

Hi, i'm a fan of single core base. I've been using this layout for quite some time and it works great with awesome funneling :D

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Originally Posted by Gnobit

Hi, i'm a fan of single core base. I've been using this layout for quite some time and it works great with awesome funneling :D

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Nice build :) I think 3 layers of walls is good amount between attacker and my gold. Anything less is just too exposed. Simple and effective, that's the way I like -uh-huh- I like it :cool:

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Originally Posted by OJM

No replays and the base isn't up anymore so can't help with that, sorry. I felt much more safe with the vault than in divided assest base I got now. Changed it because planning on pushing up trophies when got defences higher up :) Higher up in trophies, people use so much more spells so the vault could be in bit more risk. But I'm still confident, it would work even higher than where I visited (1700+). I can well understand, if someone will think "screenshot or it didn't happen", but the Vault did surive mass dragons, Pekkas and other "trophy" armies well, not to mention the countless farming attempts which were fended off with flying colors ;) Two stray WBs did reach the core the whole time, but two isn't enough and they didn't hit the same part anyway. So the core was never breached :) More than many can say, I believe.

Just went through my defences and found this. Most gold ever lost:
http://i1313.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7bc3e9ce.jpg
3 lightning spells on containers and queen got one down just before dying :)

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i used pingfaos th 9 base and i have 1 semi serious attack with
level 5 troops, and 2 spells. They got 5k gold and 10k eluxur. Ill post the pic later

I believe the phrase is putting all your eggs in one basket. It's a noble challenge to protect them all, but a fruitless one long term.

BB

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Originally Posted by bbodega

I believe the phrase is putting all your eggs in one basket. It's a noble challenge to protect them all, but a fruitless one long term.

BB

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Yep, months with 0 breaches is fruitless. But you don't have to take my word for it. If you are happy with your own base, good for you. Of course it is common for highly defended bases to not lose much even in longer periods of time. I just prefer to lose none over some. To each to their own, I believe.

From all the attacks in my current log, I have lost just under 240k gold, total. That includes two full lightning attacks and overnight mine raids. But, I'm not trying to convince anyone to change to a vault build, just pointing out, that there are other options.

Perhaps the headline of the topic was badly misleading when I started it. But that was weeks ago, so had much more time to think about it. I wanted to create a topic to discuss about the possibility for a diffent kind of base, a vault, to protect one's resources. Not to make this a pissing contest, pardon my French ^^

The Vault is a tricky design and requires a lot more work and planning to get it working properly than an average chessboard build. Copying an excisting design is always a valid option and there are plenty of those to go around. If such a base works for you and you are ok with losing a part of your resources now and then, I think it's good to stick with such a build. I just was never content with losing a third or so of my gold now and then, so I created the design what I currently use. I had a lot of help for doing that from m'lady so I can't take all the credit for it, though. If one would rate the base with the system, people use to give points to bases, it would score not too well. But I don't care about points, I care about results. If I can have a base, which is much more trouble than it's worth to attack, I count that as success. Any base can be cracked and burned down with big enough force and spells.

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Originally Posted by OJM

From all the attacks in my current log, I have lost just under 240k gold, total. That includes two full lightning attacks and overnight mine raids. But, I'm not trying to convince anyone to change to a vault build, just pointing out, that there are other options.

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Not to put a damper on you or anything, but a very well upgraded town hall 9 is not going to be attacked by many competent attackers at 1450 trophies, which makes your total gold lost argument a bit irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by MoHandles

Not to put a damper on you or anything, but a very well upgraded town hall 9 is not going to be attacked by many competent attackers at 1450 trophies, which makes your total gold lost argument a bit irrelevant.

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Exactly. And as I'm not feeling charitable to those, I'm giving them nothing rather than 1/4 which can be taken with much more ease from a cloister base.

Thank you :)

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Originally Posted by OJM

Exactly. And as I'm not feeling charitable to those, I'm giving them nothing rather than 1/4 which can be taken with much more ease from a cloister base.

Thank you :)

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Good point, I suppose this type of base might work a bit better at lower trophy counts.

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Originally Posted by MoHandles

Good point, I suppose this type of base might work a bit better at lower trophy counts.

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Quite sure that's what I said earlier, but anyway. Yes, that is the whole point of this base :)

Try it, you might like it ;)

The runaround brings many funny replays if nothing else.

I just made it a hybrid... Last night +85 trophies and no shield in the morning. Yet next to no gold lost.

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Originally Posted by OJM

Quite sure that's what I said earlier, but anyway. Yes, that is the whole point of this base :)

Try it, you might like it ;)

The runaround brings many funny replays if nothing else.

I just made it a hybrid... Last night +85 trophies and no shield in the morning. Yet next to no gold lost.

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Too bad I'm only a town hall 8, eh? Maybe when I reach the fabled land at town hall 9 :D

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Originally Posted by MoHandles

Too bad I'm only a town hall 8, eh? Maybe when I reach the fabled land at town hall 9 :D

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Couple members in my clan had made TH8 versions of it and they work just fine. I won't post their bases to not reveal their traps but have a look around :) TH8 will lack the xbows, but the splashers and air defences can make it pretty solid. Few of them tested the TH8 model up to 2k trophies and it worked just fine. Of course TH9ers try more commonly to steamroll their bases, but it isn't that easy. Diamond core with a runaround works really well against unexperienced attackers where the cloister design tend to lose at least a quarter (TH9) or third (Th8) of it's resources against such attacks.

Always nice to read in the mornings the results of many failed Pekka/dragon attacks that happened during the night. If I ever get my photobucket account working again, I could do bit more "complete" guide on such designs.

This is basically the argument:

1. Do you want a higher chance to lose some of your resources, but extremely rarely all of them?
or
2. A low chance to lose any storage resources but if they crack the vault most likely you lose the lot?

I think this question needs to be answered before people start designing their bases. As this is integral to base design in my opinion. The question exists because no base 100% attacker proof. Just pick the style that suits you more and go for it.

Yes I agree that of them it is possible that players will get 1/3 or 1/4 it is usually going to be a Th pickoff. Great Post.

-B

I am a TH 7 currently and I agree with an earlier statement that if you use a vault at lower levels and have a high trophy count your asking for a goblin blitz. Its true that your vulnerable even with a bulk-head (compartment) build but then they have to get a great % win to do so. Also it seems to be just more attractive for an attempt on the treasure trove


I've gotten up to 1800+ in trophy count and have used a sort of combination of the two currently (A central compartment with a fair amount of loot, and two much smaller ones off to the side). But it works by luring attacking forces around the center. I still get an occasional serious breach to my largest loot compartment but generally these attacks have some serious loot caps so it doesn't bother me much. Also I often get underestimated and people will throw their WB at me, and they'll get shot down by traps and splash.




For this vault moat idea, I think your later versions seemed pretty strong because of the evenly spaced defenses and resources to make it difficult to focus an attacking force. I think the strongest bases mess with AI at least some, so that people's attacks don't go as planned.

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Originally Posted by NioTheDreamer

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For this vault moat idea, I think your later versions seemed pretty strong because of the evenly spaced defenses and resources to make it difficult to focus an attacking force. I think the strongest bases mess with AI at least some, so that people's attacks don't go as planned.

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Yep, messing with the AI is fun and highly beneficial :) In most cases it would need to use two or more waves to get in, but the risk on splitting the force is you don't get inside in the first place.

I just got hit with a full bloons/8 dragon attack. 60k gold with 3 lightnings and 2k dlix. I count it as victory :)

I have found one rather major flaw in the vault style base. Sure your vault is a fortress very few will enter. But most vaults I have seen (mine included) have way too many buildings outside the vault. And the attacker gets an easy 55% win from you.

If this flaw can be addressed through base design then I think the vault bases would be better on the whole.

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Originally Posted by the8thark

I have found one rather major flaw in the vault style base. Sure your vault is a fortress very few will enter. But most vaults I have seen (mine included) have way too many buildings outside the vault. And the attacker gets an easy 55% win from you.

If this flaw can be addressed through base design then I think the vault bases would be better on the whole.

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Ah, yes. This is true. I count my defence victories by how much gold was lost :) 1000 gold, as in TH down is a victory. Anything above that brings sad face to me and full bloon wrath upon the attacker :cool:

Couple latest attacks in 2k+ range (revenges from my way up), seems to be working just fine...
http://i.imgur.com/tAHas8G.jpg?1

Hey guys, just read this thread(nice write up by the way ojm) and I thought I would come up with a vault design of my own, I am a fresh town hall 9 so excuse the low level buildings,walls, and the buildings finishing up now(xbows,tesla).

http://i41.tinypic.com/sutz7r.jpg

What do you think ojm? I didn't copy your base but I made something similar and with more buildings in the vortex, so it will distract units longer.

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Originally Posted by dtownkiller

Hey guys, just read this thread(nice write up by the way ojm) and I thought I would come up with a vault design of my own, I am a fresh town hall 9 so excuse the low level buildings,walls, and the buildings finishing up now(xbows,tesla).

What do you think ojm? I didn't copy your base but I made something similar and with more buildings in the vortex, so it will distract units longer.

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Looks good :) Only thing that slightly worries on it, is that you got mortars and wizards next to eachothers, so a lightning spells can take them both out. You got higher upgraded stuff than I had when going to TH9 but when I got my both xbows up, not a single breach to the core so far. No GoWiPes so far, but such attack can take out any base anyway.

I think many underestimate such a build :)

This is how my base looked few hours ago
http://i.imgur.com/dmie2S9.jpg?1

Currently running a hybrid, on my way to sub200 :D

Normal morning with my hybrid vault...
First revenge did bring back more gold and lix than lost, dlix... We'll see :)
No shield, yard full of tombstones and traps gone.

http://i.imgur.com/QPzTRjb.jpg?1
Time to put TH back out or not, I wonder.

I think they were targetting your de. 2800+ lost every night? Ouch....what happens if you switch the DE storage with one of the gold storage in the vault?

P.S. How much gold did you have when you went to bed? Is it only the 326k you had in your pics?

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Originally Posted by Alexchok

I think they were targetting your de. 2800+ lost every night? Ouch....what happens if you switch the DE storage with one of the gold storage in the vault?

P.S. How much gold did you have when you went to bed? Is it only the 326k you had in your pics?

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I value my gold over DE so that's not really a problem :) Got almost all back with revenges already :D I did test to put the dlix pot to the core, but that increases the lightning attacks a lot and as it's bit closer to the gold, collateral damage increases.

I had 900k gold and lix in containers and had been offline for 4 hours before first attack.

Ill stick to compartments for myself.... I really dont mind giving a gold/ elix container away (really) keeps the economy going