Why are troops so prone to circling the drain??

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February 6th, 2015
bouges

Why are troops so prone to circling the drain??

I am sooooo sick and tired of the ♥♥♥♥ troop AI that is intent on working from the outside in. For troops that supposedly target the nearest building time and again this is proven untrue. Or what is more true, troops that target the nearest building will choose to go further outside around a base than go inside. Troops will go 6 spaces around a base rather than 3 spaces forward toward the core to hit the "nearest" building. For a strategy game, this circling the drain is ridiculous and I wish SC would stop trying to make the game more "challenging" with AI that is just dumb.
February 6th, 2015
Janz

Quote:

Originally Posted by bouges

For troops that supposedly target the nearest building time and again this is proven untrue.

This isn't proven untrue. They do go for the nearest building. The only exceptions are with melee troops when they need to break through a wall to get to the nearest building, they may go to a different building instead depending on how far away it is. Also, when CC troops or skeleton traps get their attention of course they target those instead.

You just need to do a better job of clearing the outside buildings and directing your troops inward.
February 6th, 2015
fergulog8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janz

This isn't proven untrue. They do go for the nearest building. The only exceptions are with melee troops when they need to break through a wall to get to the nearest building, they may go to a different building instead depending on how far away it is. Also, when CC troops or skeleton traps get their attention of course they target those instead.

You just need to do a better job of clearing the outside buildings and directing your troops inward.

Dis
10charz
February 6th, 2015
Wintaburr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janz

You just need to do a better job of clearing the outside buildings and directing your troops inward.

True dat. This is what you should do, OP.
February 6th, 2015
Ghostface45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janz

This isn't proven untrue. They do go for the nearest building. The only exceptions are with melee troops when they need to break through a wall to get to the nearest building, they may go to a different building instead depending on how far away it is. Also, when CC troops or skeleton traps get their attention of course they target those instead.

You just need to do a better job of clearing the outside buildings and directing your troops inward.

♥♥ i raided the other day. There was a ES and A GS side by side like this[ES GS] space between them those buildings were surrounded by a walls.(hole was made) my PEKKA walked straight in and destroyed the gold storage then back tracked to the elixir storage. When CLEARLY the ES was closer
February 6th, 2015
bouges

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wintaburr

True dat. This is what you should do, OP.

What can be done with troops "choosing" to run 6 spaces to remain on the outside when they can go 3 spaces forward to hit core buildings? That just bad luck or bad programming? But it happens all the time, troops from dragons to balloons to barbs to archers to minions to PEKKAS will travel further to hit a building on the outside than to hit a closer in spaces building on the core. The amount of space that should be needed to clear troops to the core should be an amount that makes core buildings the closer targets.... but it apparently doesn't work that way. Even more annoying is how often when getting troops to the core they work themselves back to the outside.
February 6th, 2015
Janz

Quote:

Originally Posted by bouges

What can be done with troops "choosing" to run 6 spaces to remain on the outside when they can go 3 spaces forward to hit core buildings? That just bad luck or bad programming? But it happens all the time, troops from dragons to balloons to barbs to archers to minions to PEKKAS will travel further to hit a building on the outside than to hit a closer in spaces building on the core. The amount of space that should be needed to clear troops to the core should be an amount that makes core buildings the closer targets.... but it apparently doesn't work that way. Even more annoying is how often when getting troops to the core they work themselves back to the outside.

If you watch some replays of good GoWi__ attackers, you'll see that they use 2-3 golems spread apart really well and use wizards to clear a lot of the outside buildings. More buildings than you'd think would be necessary. That way, when they drop the rest of their troops, they have no choice but to go inwards and no chance of coming back out once they're in there. It's all about forcing your troops to go where you want them to.
February 6th, 2015
Pete82

You realize troops don't know what is inside and outside base right? You are giving human qualities to AI programs, and focusing on times they do things you perceive to be "stupid" while ignoring the times things go according to your plans.
February 6th, 2015
222aragorn

Recently, however, I have noticed that the AI has gone a little wacky. Let's say my AQ destroys a building. She then targets the next closest building. Sounds pretty straight foward, right? But, what has happened recently is she has walked right past other buildings to reach the building that was closest to her originally.

On topic, though, either the base is designed to funnel your troops around or you did a poor job of spawning them.
February 6th, 2015
Detron

Troops are scared to fight the good defenses in core, cant blame them
February 6th, 2015
Gama321

Quote:

Originally Posted by bouges

What can be done with troops "choosing" to run 6 spaces to remain on the outside when they can go 3 spaces forward to hit core buildings? That just bad luck or bad programming? But it happens all the time, troops from dragons to balloons to barbs to archers to minions to PEKKAS will travel further to hit a building on the outside than to hit a closer in spaces building on the core. The amount of space that should be needed to clear troops to the core should be an amount that makes core buildings the closer targets.... but it apparently doesn't work that way. Even more annoying is how often when getting troops to the core they work themselves back to the outside.

I dont believe you, especially in regards to air troops. When you make such vague statements at least back it up with a video or stop wasting everyones time
February 6th, 2015
Stretchy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detron

Troops are scared to fight the good defenses in core, cant blame them

lol, I agree. I had this group of balloons attacking a building and right on top of it (closer to the core) was an air defense. The balloons chose to attack a building to the right, further away from them than the AD. They act like humans, hehehe
February 6th, 2015
KingOfSaints

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janz

This isn't proven untrue. They do go for the nearest building. The only exceptions are with melee troops when they need to break through a wall to get to the nearest building, they may go to a different building instead depending on how far away it is. Also, when CC troops or skeleton traps get their attention of course they target those instead.

You just need to do a better job of clearing the outside buildings and directing your troops inward.

This one time my archers completely ignored the storage that is RIGHT BESIDE them and started shooting at a cannon over the wall at the next compartment..
February 6th, 2015
Janz

Quote:

Originally Posted by 222aragorn

Recently, however, I have noticed that the AI has gone a little wacky. Let's say my AQ destroys a building. She then targets the next closest building. Sounds pretty straight foward, right? But, what has happened recently is she has walked right past other buildings to reach the building that was closest to her originally.

I've noticed this before too.

When deciding her target, it seems to just pick the closest building instead of picking the building which she has to move the least distance in order to shoot. Those two aren't always the same. From a programming standpoint, this is understandable though. The amount of computation power it would take to figure out the latter option would be much more and could cause the game to lag. That's something that most people don't consider when they complain about the AI.

Bottom line, the AI isn't perfect, but there are likely very good explanations why it does some of the things it does. I'm sure Supercell is doing the best they can with the mobile hardware they have to work with.
February 6th, 2015
bouges

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gama321

I dont believe you, especially in regards to air troops. When you make such vague statements at least back it up with a video or stop wasting everyones time

I don't care. The question of the thread is perfectly clear... "Why are troops so prone to circling the drain?" If you do not believe that ever happens, I don't believe you play this game.
February 6th, 2015
Gama321

Quote:

Originally Posted by bouges

I don't care. The question of the thread is perfectly clear... "Why are troops so prone to circling the drain?" If you do not believe that ever happens, I don't believe you play this game.

I dont believe they are prone to circling anything? Do you understand who difficult it would be to code them to even do that? What do they do in a random base that doesnt have a core?
Troops go for the neares structure 99% of the time, the only exception is the odd bug, what you are regarding is simply the disparity between where you want them to go and the closest target.
February 6th, 2015
Warasin

This "issue" of the ai is more a problem with a player who doesn't understand how it works. The troop ai isn't changed every time a raid is initiated. Since the ai is a constant the problem is with the user's understanding of troop movement.
February 6th, 2015
TheWompyOverlord

Quote:

Originally Posted by bouges

wish SC would stop trying to make the game more "challenging" with AI that is just dumb.

Completely taken out of context and destroys any argument I perceived you to be making.

Clear the outsides structures buddy...
February 6th, 2015
bouges

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warasin

This "issue" of the ai is more a problem with a player who doesn't understand how it works. The troop ai isn't changed every time a raid is initiated. Since the ai is a constant the problem is with the user's understanding of troop movement.

Omfg, the arrogance of that statement is unbelievable. Okay. I do not understand how troops move or what they are supposed to do. Please teach me great one, where should I drop troops, how should I use them? Obviously you understand more and are better than everyone else!
February 6th, 2015
TheDevilsLuck

Honestly, "user error" is to blame for almost every scenario. Go look up a video on funneling troops.
February 6th, 2015
TankSinatra

Wrong, troop behavior is entirely predictable. Barbs attack nearest building, hogs loons giants nearest defense, wb nearest closed wall cell with a building in it unless they want to blow up an already broken wall, and AQ nearest building unless she's under fire in which case she targets a wall.
February 6th, 2015
Gama321

Quote:

Originally Posted by bouges

Omfg, the arrogance of that statement is unbelievable. Okay. I do not understand how troops move or what they are supposed to do. Please teach me great one, where should I drop troops, how should I use them? Obviously you understand more and are better than everyone else!

You were already given the answer, clear outside building a bit on the side you attack from. When troops attack they don't stand exactly on the building they attack it from the outside, that's why the distance to the core is probably bigger than you seem to see it as. They go for the nearest building, not the nearest building to the building they were attacking previously.
February 6th, 2015
Xitra

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gama321

You were already given the answer, clear outside building a bit on the side you attack from. When troops attack they don't stand exactly on the building they attack it from the outside, that's why the distance to the core is probably bigger than you seem to see it as. They go for the nearest building, not the nearest building to the building they were attacking previously.

Yesterday I was out farming, and I was attacking a typical two-layer base. A core, walls, an inner ring, walls, and an outer ring. All the collectors (which were full) were in the inner ring. Empty storages (dead base) in the core.

I cleared buildings on one side, used WB's, sent in troops, which started to work in both directions around the ring. I sent in my barbarian king.

He worked his way around the core. I triggered his ability when he got low on HP. He was closing in on the far side of the base, and there were still 2-3 full elixir collectors left in the inner ring.

And then, for no reason that I could tell, he stopped attacking in the ring, and started pounding on the wall to the core. He had just destroyed an elixir collector, and there was another one right next to it, no space between. but he went for the core. I was actually kinda proud of him, because I kind of get annoyed when my troops circle a ring instead of going for the core. But in this particular case, it annoyed me, because the core was empty storages, nothing in it for me.

The elixir storage in the ring was right next to the one he had previously destroyed. The buildings in the core were one space away, behind a wall. The closest building was clearly the elixir collector that he ignored. Even if the wall weren't there, it was closer. Factor in the wall, and he shouldn't have turned inward. But he did.

On the other hand, from where he was standing, he was 3 squares away from the elixir collector, and about 3 squares away from the storage in the core that changed his direction. So I think you're right, it's not the distance between the building he just destroyed and the next target. It's the distance between where he's standing and the next target.
February 6th, 2015
bouges

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gama321

You were already given the answer, clear outside building a bit on the side you attack from. When troops attack they don't stand exactly on the building they attack it from the outside, that's why the distance to the core is probably bigger than you seem to see it as. They go for the nearest building, not the nearest building to the building they were attacking previously.

Huh, I've never looked at it that way and guess I'd assume attacking troops were at center space of whatever building they were attacking. Thanks, that really is helpful.
February 6th, 2015
jammer0816

ahhhh....the joys of punching a hole in the base and then dropping your troops in front of the hole just to watch them fan out to the sides. Does my heart good watching all that glorious training.....wasted. =)