War Loot - Not Enough?

Hello,

The reward for winning wars should be doubled. Here's why:

A large part of this game is understanding ROI of your loot raids. First you must know how much your army costs. Second you must select raids that provide enough potential loot for financial gain on the raid.

While I will be the first to say that clan wars are not about looting, they are about fun, excitement, strategy, community, and competition; I do feel that they need to at least be self sustaining when it comes to gold, elixir and dark. In that regards; it fails. Here's some math: If you use a dragon raid in a war and make 8-12 dragons depending on your dragon level, you will spend 300,000 elixir or more. Throw in 3-5 spells and your war fight cost will certainly exceed 400,000. The reward for that fight will probably be about a break even on elixir. I understand you can mix some dark troops into your army to reduce cost of elixir in favor of some dark elixir. But even still you would remain close to break even, so I hope my point is still taken.

Once you throw in the cost of donating troops for war castles and donating troops for two attacks in each war you can see how the elixir expense starts to compound and you are now below break even, actually losing resources to fight the clan war. I understand that theoretically each player only has to donate to one other player to spread out the costs. You could also not donate at all in order to really save loot. But both these measures are not condusive to actually winning the war, the main objective at the begining of all this.

If that is Supercell's idea is for players to lose elixir on wars then I'd love to hear why.

But if it's not intended then I think changes ought to be made. Here is my recommendation. Because I'm sure everyone is just dying to hear it...

1 star victory = Baseline loot based on opponent kingdom power (the amount of loot super already provides)
2 Star victory = Baseline x 1.5
3 star victory = baseline x 2

Not only does this solve the "war at a loss" elixir problem, but it also gives more reward for success on individual fights.

-Teske22

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Originally Posted by Teske22

Hello,

The reward for winning wars should be doubled. Here's why:

A large part of this game is understanding ROI of your loot raids. First you must know how much your army costs. Second you must select raids that provide enough potential loot for financial gain on the raid.

While I will be the first to say that clan wars are not about looting, they are about fun, excitement, strategy, community, and competition; I do feel that they need to at least be self sustaining when it comes to gold, elixir and dark. In that regards; it fails. Here's some math: If you use a dragon raid in a war and make 8-12 dragons depending on your dragon level, you will spend 300,000 elixir or more. Throw in 3-5 spells and your war fight cost will certainly exceed 400,000. The reward for that fight will probably be about a break even on elixir. I understand you can mix some dark troops into your army to reduce cost of elixir in favor of some dark elixir. But even still you would remain close to break even, so I hope my point is still taken.

Once you throw in the cost of donating troops for war castles and donating troops for two attacks in each war you can see how the elixir expense starts to compound and you are now below break even, actually losing resources to fight the clan war. I understand that theoretically each player only has to donate to one other player to spread out the costs. You could also not donate at all in order to really save loot. But both these measures are not condusive to actually winning the war, the main objective at the begining of all this.

If that is Supercell's idea is for players to lose elixir on wars then I'd love to hear why.

But if it's not intended then I think changes ought to be made. Here is my recommendation. Because I'm sure everyone is just dying to hear it...

1 star victory = Baseline loot based on opponent kingdom power (the amount of loot super already provides)
2 Star victory = Baseline x 1.5
3 star victory = baseline x 2

Not only does this solve the "war at a loss" elixir problem, but it also gives more reward for success on individual fights.

-Teske22

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You dont war for loot its not for that you farm if you want loot, the war loot bonus is fine as it is currently

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Originally Posted by BattleBorn007

You dont war for loot its not for that you farm if you want loot, the war loot bonus is fine as it is currently

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I'm pretty sure the idea of a forum is to collaborate ideas and opinions. Providing your opinion and declaring it as factual without any substance does not enhance this discussion. I hope your other 1,000+ posts were more thoughtful.

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Originally Posted by Teske22

I'm pretty sure the idea of a forum is to collaborate ideas and opinions. Providing your opinion and declaring it as factual without any substance does not enhance this discussion. I hope your other 1,000+ posts were more thoughtful.

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Im just gonna say this back
Providing your opinion and declaring it as factual without any substance does not enhance this discussion.

I think one of the few ways to get behind on loot from attacks in war is by using an all dragon attack and rightfully so anyone can do it and it's almost always two stars at least if not three. I disagree it needs to be retooled, but if it does I won't argue.

I supplied my opinion with great supporting detail and legitimate reasons as to why this should be considered. Your response lacked any legitimacy. If my idea is a poor one, that is fine, but I will only consider substantiated and thoughful replies from humble open minded people. Thank you for your time but I don't think you are going to contribute to this discussion.

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Originally Posted by Teske22

I supplied my opinion with great supporting detail and legitimate reasons as to why this should be considered. Your response lacked any legitimacy. If my idea is a poor one, that is fine, but I will only consider substantiated and thoughful replies from humble open minded people. Thank you for your time but I don't think you are going to contribute to this discussion.

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The fact of the matter is Clan Wars isnt meant to be a farming strategy, you spend elixir to battle it out with another clan and have fun, not get rich off loot.
Its already possible with the current loot win bonus to get over a million gold and elixir from a war that is enough.
Again its fine how it is.

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Originally Posted by Derrick1992

I think one of the few ways to get behind on loot from attacks in war is by using an all dragon attack and rightfully so anyone can do it and it's almost always two stars at least if not three. I disagree it needs to be retooled, but if it does I won't argue.

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That's a fair stance Derrick, Supercells current structure is certainly guiding the thought process of these replies. Gaining resources doesn't necessarily need to be done only through "looting". A war certainly provides fun and excitement to the game, but at the end of a successful war, all the top players are losing serious loot. It seems to me that victory should result in enough loot to at least marginalize the expenses of the war. I think the tiered loot structure, IE more loot for more stars, gives enough additional incentive for players to perform better. I'm not saying 2x the loot is right number. I"m just saying it should be enough to cover expenses with a little left over for the victory.

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Originally Posted by BattleBorn007

The fact of the matter is Clan Wars isnt meant to be a farming strategy, you spend elixir to battle it out with another clan and have fun, not get rich off loot.
Its already possible with the current loot win bonus to get over a million gold and elixir from a war that is enough.
Again its fine how it is.

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If it's not meant to be a farming strategy then why do they provide any loot at all? Why not just provide 0?

The reason that I think 2X is the right loot amount on wars is because if a clan loses a war and wins a war, they should break even over the course of both wars. 1 win 1 loss. So back to my previous post, 2x would be a little high because you do receive loot even for losing. So perhaps a 3 star high bar of 1.75 or so would be about right.

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Originally Posted by Teske22

If it's not meant to be a farming strategy then why do they provide any loot at all? Why not just provide 0?

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Are you serious...If there was no loot at all people would have no drive to win the war there would be no point, the loot is a reward for winning. Doesnt mean its a farming strategy

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Originally Posted by BattleBorn007

The fact of the matter is Clan Wars isnt meant to be a farming strategy, you spend elixir to battle it out with another clan and have fun, not get rich off loot.
Its already possible with the current loot win bonus to get over a million gold and elixir from a war that is enough.
Again its fine how it is.

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Or is more loot just another bribe? lol

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Originally Posted by BattleBorn007

Are you serious...If there was no loot at all people would have no drive to win the war there would be no point, the loot is a reward for winning. Doesnt mean its a farming strategy

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No, I wasn't serious. Now you're getting it.

If you disregard your own opinions and beliefs I'll give you 20 gems.

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Originally Posted by Teske22

Or is more loot just another bribe? lol

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Originally Posted by Teske22

No, I wasn't serious. Now you're getting it.

If you disregard your own opinions and beliefs I'll give you 20 gems.

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Trading or donating gems is ruled out you should read the stickies
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...rum-guidelines

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Originally Posted by BattleBorn007

Trading or donating gems is ruled out you should read the stickies
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...rum-guidelines

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You really struggle with sarcastic irony. I was bribing you with gems... Sometimes it's hard to hold your breathe long enough to get down to where I like to swim. It's cool.

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Originally Posted by Teske22

You really struggle with sarcastic irony. I was bribing you with gems... Sometimes it's hard to hold your breathe long enough to get down to where I like to swim. It's cool.

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No i got an award for sarcasm and I dont stoop to other peoples level thank you

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Originally Posted by BattleBorn007

No i got an award for sarcasm and I dont stoop to other peoples level thank you

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LoL....did you hang it on your fridge? You're right that you can't get to my level, but you have the direction wrong.

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Originally Posted by Teske22

You really struggle with sarcastic irony. I was bribing you with gems... Sometimes it's hard to hold your breathe long enough to get down to where I like to swim. It's cool.

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Originally Posted by Teske22

LoL....did you hang it on your fridge? You're right that you can't get to my level, but you have the direction wrong.

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I did indeed hang it on my fridge and no you said "down to where I like to swim"
Seeing that I would have to hold my breathe and swim down to get there I would say your level is below me

Will you guys just shut up about this

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Originally Posted by BattleBorn007

I did indeed hang it on my fridge and no you said "down to where I like to swim"
Seeing that I would have to hold my breathe and swim down to get there I would say your level is below me

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.0042918% chance of that. I like my odds.

I think Clan Wars were meant to be for bragging rights and a way for clanmates to bond and build a strong brotherhood relationship. The bonus loot are just... well.. bonus

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Originally Posted by BaconSteak

Will you guys just shut up about this

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i like bacon

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Originally Posted by KingOfSaints

I think Clan Wars were meant to be for bragging rights and a way for clanmates to bond and build a strong brotherhood relationship. The bonus loot are just... well.. bonus

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Thank you for being correct in your thought

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Originally Posted by Teske22

.0042918% chance of that. I like my odds.

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If you have to go down the chances of it being below you is far higher than that

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Originally Posted by KingOfSaints

I think Clan Wars were meant to be for bragging rights and a way for clanmates to bond and build a strong brotherhood relationship. The bonus loot are just... well.. bonus

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I agree. I just don't think a winning member should be negatively impacted. That doesn't make sense.

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Originally Posted by BattleBorn007

If you have to go down the chances of it being below you is far higher than that

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I stick to the facts. That's the probability that your IQ is higher than mine. Kudos to you if it is, but gauging off our limited interaction...I'm confident it's not. I hate to play that card, and almost never do, but you are just so annoying lol.

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Originally Posted by Teske22

I stick to the facts. That's the probability that your IQ is higher than mine. Kudos to you if it is, but gauging off our limited interaction...I'm confident it's not. I hate to play that card, and almost never do, but you are just so annoying lol.

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Oh the odds are not in your favor for that

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Originally Posted by BattleBorn007

Oh the odds are not in your favor for that

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...those are the odds... They are in my favor. Sigh, can't fix stupid.

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Originally Posted by Teske22

...those are the odds... They are in my favor. Sigh, can't fix stupid.

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Just to be clear are you calling me stupid? I want to know if that is indeed what is implied because that is not something that is good to say on the forums

I'm with Teske on this, they've already upgraded the bonus once, but I feel not by enough. If Bjorn's theory was correct about wars not for gaining loot then SC wouldn't have given the previous upgrade.
Then again most of my clan mates are happy with the war loot. I wonder it that's because I do most of the donating for castles?

if war loots were doubled, we would never have to raid at all. just sit and war all day long. 600k each from a th8?1 million each from th10's? it would ruin the game. this is just not needed. its fine as it is

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Originally Posted by P12321

if war loots were doubled, we would never have to raid at all. just sit and war all day long. 600k each from a th8? it would ruin the game. this is just not needed. its fine as it is

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Thank you :cool:

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Originally Posted by BattleBorn007

Thank you :cool:

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Your welcome :p

I couldn't agree more

1 million will buy me 1/3 of a brick, where as I can farm that in less than an hour. Whilst at war my farming virtually stops as I'm having to brew troops for my team. For lower level players they do break even or even make something back as a higher level ou will always be down on loot. But hey, I'm still doing it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Phil01274

1 million will buy me 1/3 of a brick, where as I can farm that in less than an hour. Whilst at war my farming virtually stops as I'm having to brew troops for my team. For lower level players they do break even or even make something back as a higher level ou will always be down on loot. But hey, I'm still doing it anyway.

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Well yeah. There are some really active players like you. But many "not so active" people would be more than happy to just do 2 raids a day,3 times a week and get more than a million per raid

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Originally Posted by Phil01274

I'm with Teske on this, they've already upgraded the bonus once, but I feel not by enough. If Bjorn's theory was correct about wars not for gaining loot then SC wouldn't have given the previous upgrade.
Then again most of my clan mates are happy with the war loot. I wonder it that's because I do most of the donating for castles?

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haha I'm with ya Phil. I do a good portion of the donating as wel.

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Originally Posted by P12321

if war loots were doubled, we would never have to raid at all. just sit and war all day long. 600k each from a th8?1 million each from th10's? it would ruin the game. this is just not needed. its fine as it is

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I said previously that 2X may not be the right number, but the reward should exceed the expenses.

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Originally Posted by Phil01274

I'm with Teske on this, they've already upgraded the bonus once, but I feel not by enough. If Bjorn's theory was correct about wars not for gaining loot then SC wouldn't have given the previous upgrade.
Then again most of my clan mates are happy with the war loot. I wonder it that's because I do most of the donating for castles?

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I agree that the loots bad if your donating. they should give vrdit to peoople who donate. then again this becomes another idea,totally off topic

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Originally Posted by Phil01274

1 million will buy me 1/3 of a brick, where as I can farm that in less than an hour. Whilst at war my farming virtually stops as I'm having to brew troops for my team. For lower level players they do break even or even make something back as a higher level ou will always be down on loot. But hey, I'm still doing it anyway.

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Absolutely. My clanmates must love it. The lower levels certainly make a little bit. The higher players will have a hard time breaking even, and if you are one of the higher donators then you must certainly suffer a loss. 200K in spells alone, if you donate to just 1 other clan mate (war castle, attack #1, attack #2) that's another 100K. 300K total so far and you haven't even made a troop for yourself! Obviously, if you are donating to more than one other clanmate then you approach a deficit much more quickly...

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Originally Posted by P12321

I agree that the loots bad if your donating. they should give vrdit to peoople who donate. then again this becomes another idea,totally off topic

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That's where I'm at. Ideally every member is responsible to donate to one other member. But that obviously isn't condusive to winning unless your entire clan is EXTREMELY close in kingdom power from your top guy to your bottom guy. If that's not the case (and slim chance it is) then a handful of top players are doing most of the donating and suffering losses.

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Originally Posted by Teske22

That's where I'm at. Ideally every member is responsible to donate to one other member. But that obviously isn't condusive to winning unless your entire clan is EXTREMELY close in kingdom power from your top guy to your bottom guy. If that's not the case (and slim chance it is) then a handful of top players are doing most of the donating and suffering losses.

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Exactly. in most clans, it was always the top 3-5 players filling the clan castles. and,of course, it just went away.
but im ok with it. Atleast i can brag 96 war wins :P

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Originally Posted by Teske22

That's a fair stance Derrick, Supercells current structure is certainly guiding the thought process of these replies. Gaining resources doesn't necessarily need to be done only through "looting". A war certainly provides fun and excitement to the game, but at the end of a successful war, all the top players are losing serious loot. It seems to me that victory should result in enough loot to at least marginalize the expenses of the war. I think the tiered loot structure, IE more loot for more stars, gives enough additional incentive for players to perform better. I'm not saying 2x the loot is right number. I"m just saying it should be enough to cover expenses with a little left over for the victory.

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I could see how top players lose a lot of resources through donating. But thinking of this through a business perspective if loot went much higher your lower members are gonna sail straight into th8 quickly. Which in turn is going to affect gem sales for SC. I just don't see them ever jumping the loot up enough where top members break even or gain resources. That's the price you pay for running a successful clan I suppose.

They could possibly look at boosting loot bonuses from th9/10, but even that I don't see happening. Somewhere you need to draw the line on what to donate. I've seen clans fill cc with nothing but archers. Works pretty well you have to wait awhile to draw them out. Besides how hard is it to lure a cc and stack wizards on it and kill those troops quickly? As far as donating for attacks hogs and wizards aren't too expensive.

Clan could collect taxes from it's members, than distribute them to attackers according to their stars and donations. I think it's fair.
Check my other topic about taxes: Impove clans' sanity and teamwork

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Originally Posted by superviviente

Clan could collect taxes from it's members, than distribute them to attackers according to their stars and donations. I think it's fair.
Check my other topic about taxes: Impove clans' sanity and teamwork

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Ha, a community pool of loot to be used for donations. That's a clever idea, but who wants more taxes? haha

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Originally Posted by Derrick1992

I could see how top players lose a lot of resources through donating. But thinking of this through a business perspective if loot went much higher your lower members are gonna sail straight into th8 quickly. Which in turn is going to affect gem sales for SC. I just don't see them ever jumping the loot up enough where top members break even or gain resources. That's the price you pay for running a successful clan I suppose.

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I don't quite follow your logic as to why exactly it would mean less gems spent; therefor less $$ for SC. But nonetheless, your point is taken. It's a number that we, the players, will never know for any and all change topics. But we can assume, generally speaking, that any change that would result in less money for SC is not going to happen. I suppose for the sake of these discussions, unless it's completely obvious that SC would lose money (like free gems for everyone!) then we should assume that it wouldn't effect their revenues. Once we get into speculation as to whether it may or may not effect revenues, I think it makes more sense to assume not unless told otherwise with certainty.

Hi, I think you make a good point. Only I would lower the baseline a bit. 2 times the current amount would be too much in my opinion.

Right now when I win a war I go like 'yey, I didn't loose too much loot this war!'

As you stated war is about fun with the clan, but sometimes when I'm saving up for something it is damn annoying.