Poll on the way guys! Vote for how you want them nerfed!
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Poll on the way guys! Vote for how you want them nerfed!
i dont think they need nerfed...
I dont 10 chars
Quote:
Originally Posted by trevo45
Sorry, I meant "re-balanced"Quote:
Originally Posted by farglschmitz
How is Lava hounds being faster a nerf? I'm not going to vote but I don't understand the option.
Since there was no option for them being fine right now, i chose to make em faster:rolleyes:
I'm not sure they need "re-balancing" or "nerfing"Quote:
Originally Posted by gorzo93
Ha ha. You and your one sided, leading polls.
The faster they go in the faster they die? Not sure tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by Lloopy14
I have a feeling this topic will go well or fall on it's head...but nevertheless.
I would like at least one of the following to happen.
a) Pups to spawn closer to the Hound, the way they spread out at the moment pops 99% of the well placed red bombs you have. These stupid little pups make base designs to defend the air combo almost impossible. Have them spawn close like a Golemite so you actually have a chance to make a good defense where red bombs avoid hounds and hit balloons/minions instead.
b) Seeking Air Mines do 1.2x damage to Hounds. At the moment you could literally put 3 of your 4-5 SAMs together and not kill ONE max Hound. 3 SAMs at max level cost 60,000 gold. That is far too much value doing not nearly enough. Why bother having traps at all when they are so expensive for so little benefit?
&/or the re-arm costs should be halved - because Hounds are just wasting them far too easily. Just costing defenders 100k+ gold for no-where near enough benefit.
They don't need to be rebalanced or nerfed. Ground troops need a buff!!! ;) The best troops used with the best strategy and skill should be able to 3-star a TH10!!!
If hounds get inside faster they get killed quicker and loons have less time under coverQuote:
Originally Posted by Lloopy14
I say we vote on the stopping of ppl asking for stuff to be nerfed. Step yo game upQuote:
Originally Posted by gorzo93
Go make the poll;)Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcaesar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sj74
This thread is not about whether or not hounds need a nerf, it is how you would like them nerfed. It is exactly what the title suggests...
Can we have a "I don't think they need re-balancing." option? I'd be intrigued to see how many go for that.
Where's the option? "Remove LavaHound's"
Loonions still a decent and strong attack strateg.
With Lavas they are OP
If you watch Galladons videos, you will notice, in evey Lava attack the attacker get more % over GoWiSomething.
Actually in CW a good amount of players are rolling Air attack,
Honestly I will reserve judgement until a hound based army actually generates a star against me that didn't come from a snipe first.
They are fine as it is. Leave them be.
I'm not entirely sure how you think that is going to help. Couldn't they just be released that little bit later to compensate?Quote:
Originally Posted by gorzo93
They aren't OP....
Although I don't agree that TH8 doesn't deserve an opinion, this one of those times. I can say that I've never seen a lava hound in action, as a TH8 in a small clan.
If you aren't a TH10 or TH9 watch galladon videos, compare youself..
Lavas need a Nerf, Air attackers will defend it of course and say that they aren't OP
Yeah theyd need to be fast enough that a large amount of loons die before the hounds take agro of defencesQuote:
Originally Posted by Lloopy14
LavaHounds do need to be rebalanced (from a war perspective).
Right now, 4-5 hounds plus a few balloons + Rage Spells will 3 star max defense TH9s (even if they have a decent layout) without the need of heroes, and it doesn't take very much skill.
TH10s getting two starred without the use of Hereos. I even saw a TH10 get two starred with 6 hounds and minions. I am not talking about rushed, badly designed ones either.
There should not be a troops in the game that can bypass all defense and three star with no skill.
Lavahounds are just the hogs of old. When you could make 40 hogs and 4 heal spells and three star TH9s and below, with very little skill. Now they haven been rebalanced and are still the goto troops (with some modifications) for the top war clans to three star TH9s.
I am not saying they need to be nerfed beyond use, but something needs to happen so they require skill to three star with, not just drop with some loons, rage and win.
This is complete true,Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJoeF
The proof is at youtube, most Youtubers using this now
Either you don't war or you are very low in trophies. You'll see soon enough how overpowered they are. With the right composition it is ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by jakewebs
Where's my 'THEY SHOULDNT BE NERFED THEYRE UNDERPOWERED...' Option?
:P
They don't need to be nerfed
They do not Need to be nerfed at all.
I am a max th10 (expect walls) and I was never attacked with hounds in war. The Standard atack is GoWi (WI or Pe)Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJoeF
So if you are a max th9 then it is maybe time to go to th10 instead of always to ask for a nerf of a troop that can destroy your toy
Increase the damage per shot I say 😛
I'm surprised people don't think they are a little too powerful. Lavaloons actually makes it to where you can have both heroes down and war. Pretty much 2*ing full max bases without heroes. Sure it is still tough to near impossible to get three, but an army is a little broken, if you can 70% max bases with no heroes.
I think the one should be nerf are these nerf threads...
Voted faster = no nerf. This thread poll is dumb. It takes on a "do you still beat your wife" level of logical fallacy.
Where is your proof? In war we have 10 th10 and another 10 th9. And I saw never a guy doing 2 stars to any of these bases with hounds and no hero.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilsLuck
I am at the Moment at 3100 thropies climbing to champ and was never 3 starred there also regardless if hounds gowi and all These max 2 stars where done only with heroes
Why the hell do people want those lava to be nerfed ?
If you really think a lavaloonion strategy can 2* any maxed TH10 without any skill, then use it.
I guess those requests are coming from people who are too stupid using them correctly, and thus frustrated being 2* while they cannot achieve the same.
I prefer them to stay as they are. Never been attacked with a successful lava based attack especially in clan war. Always they get 1 star and rarely 2 stars!! Why everything needs to be nerfed? Why not increase defensive power?
If the games goes this way of nerfing attacks we will once get to a place where maybe a TH10 can't 3 star a TH9!!
I like to see powerful attacking and defenses so the fail/win chances are higher and not everything guaranteed
Please explain.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkedgex
Also, if they are made much faster they will be in the core so quickly that all the outside defences can hit the balloons. So I guess you do want them to be nerfed.
You have never been in a war against us then ;-) I usually 2* TH10 in both attacks using lavaloonions... Anyway, just like any other strategy, I think this requires some skills, and in the case of lavaloonion, it's mainly about timing, which can make the difference between 0 and 2 stars. I've seen lots of people completely failing using the same lavaloonion strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by zellnera
At the moment, reason why I'm using lavaloonion is that I have both heroes constantly upgrading, and this is the only viable TH10 strategy without heroes for 2*. Anyway, once I have my heroes back, I'll probably switch back to gowiwi or gowipe strategies, as those are a lot more capable of 3* TH10 bases.
You should not be able to easily three star and always two star with a strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by bbdoc
It was like hogs vs town hall 9s, except that was three stars or 0 stars. And against th10 it took skill, whereas lavaloonion is questionable.
How would I want to see hounds to bee nerfd?
Well, simply that clashers learn to defend agents them. If you people would only spend half the time you spent in complaining and use it to trai to defend against the hounds, you would already have found a good base to defend against the hounds.
Pretty unfair poll as it just will make it look like everyone wants them nerfed there should be an option for "no change needed" so all the people who don't want them nerfed are voiced too. I know supercell won't just nerf a troop cause one thread says nerf them but yeah my opinion is obviously no nerf needed.
Just started using them because ground troop AI is driving me crazy.
Could we please slow the nerf demands until, say, FE IV finishes?
By increasing the damage done by the hound or increasing the number of pups? That'd be good:)
Well.... Even with my previous post, they have to catch a nerf sometime, i will elaborate though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helgi
My question is, has anyone actually had a high level loss against them with hounds?
Even an attack that goes badly can still have a star wrapped up before heroes even go on the map, or be at 40+ percent with a load of defences gone. So, less than 10% to grab with 2 decent heroes is virtually impossible to stop.
Compare that to wins against gowixxxx.
All spells used and full hero damage, there are a number of ways it can go wrong and narrowly miss out on both stars.
That, is why all the calls for a nerf, not because of occasional 3*.
all skilled players make it look easy so unfair to make such a broad statement as plenty of people fail horrible when they just think it's a drop and win army. GoWiPe can 2 star any base and 3 star a lot of bases too yet that combo only ever gets buffed..Quote:
Originally Posted by gorzo93
Also now hogs with golems and witches can wreck th9s (haven't seen much vs th 10s but I assume it's doable) should they be nerfed too?
It it all comes down to practise and skill of you practise and get really good with an army it's deserved you get 2/3 stars and not be forced into using GoWiPe because your practised gets wasted by a nerf because people get salty over a loss.
Where did I say you can easily 3* and always 2* with this strategy ? Maybe you should start reading correctly before answering a post. It all depends on how the base is build. Some bases I will easily 2* with lavaloonions, others I won't, but isn't that the purpose of this game ??Quote:
Originally Posted by gorzo93
Reality is that most pretty advanced TH10 are building their bases with gowiwi and gowipe in mind, which is why I can easily find bases I can 2* with lavaloonions. You cannot build a base that would be impossible to 2* whatever the strategy, and this is also why you have one day to prepare your CW attacks, so you can plan this correct army according to the base you target.
There is a BIG difference compared to what you could do using hogs in the past. You could easily 3* any base using hogs, WITHOUT ANY STRATEGY, simply dropping all hogs somewhere in a corner and using heal spells. This is why SC decided to upgrade giant bombs damages. This is in no way comparable to using lavaloonion where you will fail miserably if not using it the right way.
But again, I guess you never used this strategy and are only complaining about your base design not being able to counter it.
This is where and how i disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saukin94
I am a very experienced gowi... attacker, and there are still loads of ways for it to go wrong against tough bases.
I have done less than 20 lava loon attacks EVER, and just 2 starred 2 bases in a row, at 3680🏆s.
I switched comps because of losses with gowiwipe, too many troops ignoring jump, leaving TH 3/4 dead to chase a retreating defending hero etc..
Surely that tells you something about the strength. That i would rather use something i have very little experience in, at big trophies, because of reliability?
I was saying 'you' as in a player. I never saw hogs three star a town hall 10 by dropping in one location. Do you really think that it is as easy to three star with Gowi as lavaloonion?Quote:
Originally Posted by bbdoc
Answer is clearly YES. Last time a guy attacked my base with lavaloonion (4 lava) and 30+ heroes, he managed to get 28% because he misused his spell (freezed my infernos way too early and rages loons too late). I guess this guy is probably complaining on this post about the need for lava to be nerfed as he can't use them right and thus prefer other people who can not to have this option anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfinch30
Same with gowipe and gowiwi. I've seen LOTS of guys failing their raids with max troops because they couldn't use it right.
Youre really missing my point.
Of course a MASSIVE screw up gets you a win.
What im saying is it takes a far far bigger screw up with hounds than it does ground armies.
It is hard to not get 1* with them.
It is easy, even with little wrong with the attack, to narrowly miss both stars on a gowipe.
Im not talking about wars or 3* here, but a pushers perspective.
2 and 3 stars are always nice, but the biggest factor is DO NOT LOSE, as it is crippling at higher trophies.
It is much, much harder to lose with lavaloon.
Comparing them to hogs is also rather silly, as they had MULTIPLE nerfs.
They dont need to be nerfed. Supercell know what they were doing before they released this troop. The only troop that ever needed to be nerfed was the HogriderQuote:
Originally Posted by gorzo93
That, is a brave statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheACEMan2000
Hounds are by far the best balanced of a new troop, but that doesnt mean exactly right.
Their play testing and balancing has been waaay off before, you mustve missed 20 witches with jumps.
not the only troop to ever be nerfed (fyi)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheACEMan2000
Precisely. I was in Masters not that long ago. And witnessed one of the sloppiest deployments ever of Hounds, Balloons, Minions & Rage spells. Resulting in a 2 star loss in next to no time. The only thing the attacker did right was follow up Balloons & Rage quickly. If you deploy everything fast it's pretty much impossible to lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfinch30
I just could not believe it, it was like watching the old Hogs again. You should never be able to 2 star a decent base with sloppy deployment and heroes having no impact.
After I had been 2 starred the attacker dropped both heroes brainlessly [Queen first] to try steal some loot on some and they died pretty quickly. Further proving the attacker had little idea what he was doing. But had an army powerful enough to cover it up...
They need to be nerfed because... you can't design a good base!!?
The typical ignorant response right here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruzkal
You think I just had all my Air Defences on the outside of my base? :rolleyes:
Have you read any of the other posts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruzkal
That i have now had 3 2* in a row, as a novice lavalooner, in mid champion?
That it is virtually impossible to not get at least a star?
Feel free to show me this magical layout that stops lavas getting a star on you.
I did make a base last time i was at 4k, that limited excellent raids from the pro lava users from QW to 1* most of the time.
They were never, however, in danger of losing.
Even before lvl hounds, I could 1star just about any base in the game with just ballonions and a max lvl dragon in CC. I dont see the point. You just want your base to be invincible??
ive seen many failed raids in war of people using lavahounds. Also, max lvl gowiwi can get a 1 as long as golems are deployed separated and you arent the dumbest player alive. Does gowiwi need a nerf because its a easy 1 star??
Sigh. Yes, of course you can get 1* when thats what youre aiming for.
The problem with gowi.., is that when aiming for 2*, it is perfectly conceivable to miss out on both.
Hounds do not have this problem.
You get to aim for 2-3, with it still being so, so easy to rescue one.
Why must people insist on misconstruing what is said to attempt to offer a poor argument?
All you are saying is you want a base that can never be 3 starred ... If the lavahounds do get nerfed, i would just quit. Its the only army worth using that requires some skills and isnt as random as other armies.
If its really so easy to 2 and 3 star, show me some videos of yourself or clanies please. Everything in this forum is blown out of proportion. When i go to war, most attacks are gowiwi and gowipe. Not everyone uses lavahounds as flawlesly as it is claimed here.
Actually, show me the 3 stars. Any decent player can gowipe or gowiwi for 2 stars in war. 3 stars is where its at.
Because they are clutching at straws to keep Hounds as they are so they can continue to dominate with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfinch30
There are some poker players on this forum.
I think they do need a spot of doggy moisturiser. Has anyone else noticed their skin does appear a little dry and cracked? It's all very well giving them wings but if the poor buggers are scratching themselves constantly and in discomfort then how can they concentrate on targeting Air defences
This thread is nowhere right in the first place... and so is the dumb poll.
I can show an absolute novice dropping 2* on maxed bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by xQQx
No day to plan, just 30 seconds, very little experience..
That, is what i am saying the problem is.
Could you imagine the train wreck of someone dropping their first ever gowipe on a maxed base in mid champion?
No more half-♥♥♥♥♥ lazy replies please, bit of thinking first.
Don't get grumpy Finchy. Whats half-♥♥♥♥♥ to some is totally-♥♥♥♥♥ to to others.....no wait I mean Un-♥♥♥♥♥ to others or not-♥♥♥♥♥...bugger it.
Show it to me. Are my answer half ♥♥♥♥♥ because you have no good arguements??Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfinch30
show me the novice getting 2 stars. Also, a player using gowipe for the first time in champs?? Mid champs at that... Pretty solid arguement. Lel!!!
you need to practice what you preach ... Do some thinking before typing ♥♥. Im not gonna waste more time here. You have presented no evidence so far on how broken they are.
Let's dissect that a little shall we.
The novice (certainly where hounds are concerned), is ME.
The incredulity that you greet the idea of a novice gowiper trying it for the first time in mid-champ, rather proves my point.
I better elaborate a little further, just to make sure.
The novice gowipe argument may sound ridiculous, thats because it is.
No-one would seriously consider it. If you were a pro-barcher, got up to 3600, then decided to suddenly give gowipe a try, it would be a miracle if it went well.
That however, is the exact choice i made today. Sick of skellies and heroes ignoring jumps, i switched to hounds, despite having used them less than a handful of times.
Edit 2: just this second made a horrible mess of a hound attack, salvaged a star. Job done. If a gowi.... attack had gone that badly, id be -30
Then show it please... Suprising how many people on this forum "can show" everything to support their point but never actually show anything !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfinch30
I don't want them to be nerfed at all.
Another nerf for hogs would be welcome though ;)
I love the lavahound. Three star weak th10s and two star strong ones, so long as the base layout is right. There are some layouts I wouldnt dare touch with them, though.
That being said, I do not believe lavahounds need a direct nerf, none of your poll options are applicable. Only one reply in this thread made sense, and that was the one about an indirect nerf, "SAM dealing x1.2 damage to hounds". Just as hog riders were indirectly nerfed. Though it would not be crippling, it would balance the playing field better than any of the suggestions made in the poll.
I really don't understand why you are not yet at the top of the leaderboard if it's indeed impossible not to get 1* star with this compo... Please climb up to world #1 using it so you really prove your point ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfinch30
I clearly need to have a you tube tutor hour for lava's because up to now I have practically ignored them. I am mid/strong strength TH10, Lv 112. Some much better players than me claiming they need a nerf so clearly I should be using them!
lol. 1 star is irrelevant. I can one star most bases with a few loons to take splash defenses out and barbarians/archers to get to 50%... What does that prove really ?Quote:
Originally Posted by xQQx
Or just don't centralize your air defenses and or keep the tucked in where heroes and 1-2 golems cant get them..
It's too soon to nerf them.
Honestly, Lava Hounds don't need a nerf. Just adapt your base to deal with it, it's not that hard. I'm also very dissapointed that there's no "no nerf" option on the poll, but not entirely surprised. It appears to be a very one-sided thread that completely assumes the OP's opinion is the correct one.
Don't need a nerf
Lol all of top 5 using lava hounds ♥♥♥♥. I guess you kind of backed yourself into a wall there...Quote:
Originally Posted by bbdoc
Ty gorzo. I cant continue. I tried.Quote:
Originally Posted by gorzo93
Sadly, this old technophobe is a little lacking in video posting skills, anyone can come visit and see both the easy 2* win and the almost catastrophic fail that just about got salvaged.
It is the difference in hero deployment that tells the tale. Ground armies NEED the heroes right in there to get the 2.
A great attack in war might do it with 1, or an incredible attack with 0 heroes, but its a daunting prospect.
Hounds can regularly have the 2 wrapped up before a hero is placed (by far better exponents of them than me).
The terrible near fail i just did (spell mis placement, bad layout for hounds, might have been, not like i know), left me needing 16%. How would you scrape up 16% if heroes were already dead, thrown straight in the mix like a ground attack?
They are using a mix of lava golems loons and wizards... have a closer look and you'll see each of them as a different compo. So doesn't seem to be that straightfoward or they would all go for the exact same troop.Quote:
Originally Posted by gorzo93
Have a try using those compo and post your raids here. I would be surprised to see how good you are 2* any maxed base without any skills.
This poll is ridiculous. There's no option for "lava hounds are fine"--which even if it's not what the OP wants to hear, if they're not willing to listen to dissenting opinions then no useful discussion will occur.
One is... Not all of them???Quote:
Originally Posted by bbdoc
Thats not what this thread is about lol... Did you read the title?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieProcess
I am fairly sure they will be nerfed to some extent next update, so there really is no point in looking at whether they should or shouldn't. Sad thing is the indirect nerfs that daz mentioned seem the most likely but aren't there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZombieProcess
Go on Gama, i see you talk a lot of sense, go back through last few pages, and see if theres a number of people vastly missing the point i am attempting to make.
Lol don't know what you want me to say, cant see anyone responding to what you actually said thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Superfinch30
pups have already been nerfed, and nothing more needs to be done. Lavaloonian is not an 'easy' raid it can go horribly wrong just as easily...
Its a bit like saying we need to nerf pekkas because gowipe is too strong.
Don't need to be nerfed, some complaining and learn to play.
Reason you want them nerfed, you don't want to put the effort into learning how to defend against them, you've designed the perfect base already and if anything can beat you it's because it's OP.
The title in itself is already stupid... Why create a poll if the title of this poll is already deciding for you. Most people thing lava should NOT be nerfed (see the number of people answering they should get faster), so no way they could answer on a poll about how they should be nerfed.Quote:
Originally Posted by gorzo93
Let see ...
First they "nerfed" the hog.
Them the barch.
Next are:
- Lava Hounds
- Ballonions
- Gowiwi
- Gowipe
- GGBarch again
- Nerf the goblin and wall breaker
- Buff the healer
The only way to get a start is snipping the TH.
Them they decide that troops are two week and creates a new DE troops.
They nerf the NEW DE troop.
And then SC nerfs all defenses but create a walls to level 15.
They should add more health to the lava hounds...
So being able to regularly 2 star TH10s is ok, as long as the attack requires enough "skill" as determined by you guys? Where does it end?
Also, has anyone seriously taken on the task of designing anti-lava bases? I know there are certain types of bases I can't wait to attack based on AD placement and other factors.
They don't need to be "re-balanced" eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by gorzo93
Most consistent problem I have to make up for (by sending loons first) is hounds outrunning loons by too much a gap especially if AD are buried deep in base and overlapping. Them being faster would not be good. I would prefer they be slower actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloopy14
Seriously? Another nerf on hogs would just make them a mess. They are just right. Much skill required to 3 star a decent th9, nevermind a max one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla86
thats all you should expect when the OP is gorzoQuote:
Originally Posted by TrapezoidSteve
My base resists quite well to lava attacks, had several already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete82
Globally, it's quite a typical anti base. I see lots of people have abandoned anti hogs bases since hogs have been nerfed, but they don't seem to understand anti hog is efficient against any troop specifically targeting defenses, so it works fine against giants and loons as well, including when loons are being used in conjunction with lava hounds.
My air defenses are not in the core, so lava will first target the ad on one site, and then cross through the core to get to the ad on the other side of the base. During this time, they will be targeted by infernos. Loons will simply turn around the base and will never enter the core, while wt and infernos are killing them.
I don't say there is no way to 2* my base using lavaloonions, but it will require quite a good strategy, which most people don't seem to have reviewing my defense log ;-) Just like in the past with hogs, you still can take an anti-hog base with hogs by breaking the circle, but that requires skills !
Actually, I think Lava hound needs a buff :rolleyes:
I thought the popular nerf was to make the change where lava pups dont activate the red bombs. That seems like it would help defense some and still give lavaloonion a chance. Thats what everyone wants right? A fair chance with the strategy.