Max TH9 a bad thing?

Ok so I have been wanting to make this thread for awhile now I just never had the time. I'm sitting on a shield now so I figured now would be the perfect time...... So, here's the deal. I love the clan war aspect to this game. It has made it like a whole new game. I'm the leader of a clan right now and our main rule is **NO RUSHED BASES** in my opinion a rushed base can really hurt you in war. But here's my issue.... Can the opposite of that hurt you as well? For example this is my base...... Lvl 30 Queen and lvl 24 King, all my troops are maxed for TH9 and I am over halfway done with lava walls. I'm sitting right around 3400 trophies right now so, while I'm not the greatest raider in the world, I can hold my own when attacking. But I have been noticing something lately in matchmaking.... We have been getting matched up against more and more TH10's. And I have noticed that before I was in this clan, even in the other clan i was in I was always matched against a TH10. So I guess my main question is, is there a point where my base is a bad thing for matchmaking purposes cause I start to count as a low TH10 without the advantage of having inferno towers or better troops? I have come to believe that it can be a bad thing. I'm still not gonna go to TH10 till I'm fully maxed but I just thought it would be cool to see what other people thought about this topic. Can maxing all the way hurt you cause you get bumped up in TH level for matchmaking...... Idk but I would love to hear what you think!

It's easy to imagine that that would be the case. For war matchmaking, I suspect that each of the things that counts for matchmaking (defensive structures, walls, heroes, troop levels) is given a point value, and you can think of your base as having a point value that's the sum of all those things in your base. Inferno Towers are worth quite a lot of points, as are X-Bows. But, if your defenses are TH9 max, and the opposing TH10's defenses are TH8-level, plus level 1 X-Bows and level 1 Infernos, those could score out roughly equally.

I honestly agree, getting matched up with a rushed th10is still very hard to three star without freeze spell and that extra spell plus they have the advantage of having maxed troops in their war castles :) defs a worthwhile topic and interesting to see people's opinions

Walls and heroes dont make too big of a difference for wars.. Defenses do.
Maxing a town hall allows you to practice your skills while not adding a burden to your clan. The reason you're getting matched up against a lot of th10s is because most people rush, and i bet that those th10s are premies. The thing that supercell doesnt understand is that making a premie th10 be equal to a maxed th9 doesnt make sense, because the infernos make it almost impossible for a th9 to 3 star it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tomaster1275

Walls and heroes dont make too big of a difference for wars.. Defenses do.
Maxing a town hall allows you to practice your skills while not adding a burden to your clan. The reason you're getting matched up against a lot of th10s is because most people rush, and i bet that those th10s are premies. The thing that supercell doesnt understand is that making a premie th10 be equal to a maxed th9 doesnt make sense, because the infernos make it almost impossible for a th9 to 3 star it.

---

Walls, for the most part dont, however Heroes absolutely make a difference.

Ya I agree with you guys. And totally agree with the thought of being matched against a preemie TH10 is unfair. But the thing the other guy said about walls and heroes not counting much, I thought they did count for a good amount? Not as much as defenses.... But still are a good factor. Or am I wrong?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lando409

Walls, for the most part dont, however Heroes absolutely make a difference.

---

He is referring to weighting.

but on that topic the weighting heroes have for offense is unknown and I think there is a good chance they are weighted heavily for offense due to how useful they are there. Everyone knows hero lvls don't make a difference on defence and you can see they have a low weighing there, everyone knows that infernos make a world of difference even at lvl1 and it is seen that they have a high weighting. Offense could very well follow the same logic and give heroes a high weighting.

I think if your offense is also max it is fine, provided you can destroy the premie TH10s.

I think the easiest way to win wars though is to have low def and high off. So when I go to TH10 I will not build infernos until my offense upgrades are done. Then I will be th10 offense getting matched against th9 defense...

We usually win we face premie TH of a higher level...

With all the research and forum reading I've done, it all seems to be consistent. Clan wars matchmaking matches clans based on the strength of their members. Strength itself is based upon the sum of attack power of each member, troop levels, camp capacity, spells and hero levels. Also of course the sum of the members defensive power, defense buildings, walls and heroes as well.

So basically Eric hit the nail on the head, you're accumulative strength is probably at a mid level TH10, that's speculative of course.

The huge unspoken difference here, like most any game, is skill level. Obviously SuperCell doesn't have a way to track analytics to that degree level. You're skill level is supremely above average, which bridges the gap between your base being a top level TH9 and the scoring of being a mid level TH10 in SuperCells eyes.

Its very annoying as it happens to me regularly. This is absolutely the case but usually they suck at attacking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gama321

He is referring to weighting.

but on that topic the weighting heroes have for offense is unknown and I think there is a good chance they are weighted heavily for offense due to how useful they are there. Everyone knows hero lvls don't make a difference on defence and you can see they have a low weighing there, everyone knows that infernos make a world of difference even at lvl1 and it is seen that they have a high weighting. Offense could very well follow the same logic and give heroes a high weighting.

---

I do not think heroes affect rating that much, we have twice been matched with their top 2-3 having max L40 heroes when our highest are around L15...

That match was crazy cakes all round though....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRealNick

I do not think heroes affect rating that much, we have twice been matched with their top 2-3 having max L40 heroes when our highest are around L15...

That match was crazy cakes all round though....

---

Yep we can speculate that they don't have high weighting on offense too as that is what seems to be the case, but unlike defence we can never be too sure with offense, as there is no ordinal scale for it and mismatches exist.

Great discussion so far guys, I really appreciate the input. I enjoy reading all the different points of view

Hmmmm good point, I think there is some validity to this - it's a point system right and I think your heroes are letting you down in this case. I believe they have quite a high bias - yours are higher than most TH10s.

I do believe walls have negligible effect - maybe 5-8% of the total points are accounted for by those.

There probably is a balance, maybe you need a few "slightly" rushed THs to redress the balance :)

After rushing my base, I can say that maxing definitely hurts you more in clan wars. I'm using th7 defenses at a th9 and I'm scored as the lowest th9. I am usually matched against new th9 or maxed th8, which allows my mid level th9 troops achieve an easy 3 star. I usually have to carry the weight of some people who maxed th8 bbecause their attacking prowess does not match their base defenses

OP, you mentioned you could hold your own in battle so I believe you could hit a TH10 for 2 stars (or may even 3 star a TH10 given a favorable base layout).

Unless you constantly face a maxed TH10 in war, I do think it is actually a good thing to face low to mid TH10s consistently as a TH9 in war so you are familiar with TH10's strengths and weaknesses and better equip for future wars when you jump to TH10. It is better to start the adjustment period early (dealing with TH10 infernos, xbows and high lvl heroes) at TH9 than at TH10 so it will probably be easy for you to hit a maxed TH10 when you become a TH10 yourself....

Just my 2 cents...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daddy

Hmmmm good point, I think there is some validity to this - it's a point system right and I think your heroes are letting you down in this case. I believe they have quite a high bias - yours are higher than most TH10s.

I do believe walls have negligible effect - maybe 5-8% of the total points are accounted for by those.

There probably is a balance, maybe you need a few "slightly" rushed THs to redress the balance :)

---

NEVER ALLOW RUSHED BASES!!! Haha jk thanks for your input

Town hall 9 is the best town hall to max in my opinion. Maybe not get all level 10 walls but having quite a bit will be good. I'm currently trying to max my town hall 9 and shooting for about 50 level 10 walls and want my heroes both at level 20.

In my experience, having maxed TH9 with high heroes is bad for CW especially when there are at least 3-4 of these maxed TH9 bases in a clan. We were constantly being matched up with clans with more th10s. A premmie TH10 (whose defenses are 1/2/3 levels from max) and lvl2 infernos are virtually impossible to 2-star if base is designed decently. TH9 troops just don't have the offensive troops/spells to deal with infernos to take TH and 50%.

There is absolutely a point of it been a bad thing.

Any TH9 who stays there with no builder jobs left and no lab job lefts are wasting all of the most valuable buildings in the game. To achieve what can be achieved at TH10.

Just upgrade!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

After rushing my base, I can say that maxing definitely hurts you more in clan wars. I'm using th7 defenses at a th9 and I'm scored as the lowest th9. I am usually matched against new th9 or maxed th8, which allows my mid level th9 troops achieve an easy 3 star. I usually have to carry the weight of some people who maxed th8 bbecause their attacking prowess does not match their base defenses

---

This is right.

We have some lower level players with max offense and absolutely no defense (except the one cannon you are required to place). Not even walls. That seems like a really good war strategy, since in our typical matchups, a TH7 or weak/mid TH8 is getting maxed regardless.

i'm generally not in favor of maxing out heroes and walls at th9. however, this is very much a personal choice and should be made based on what makes the game most enjoyable for you.

another question to ask yourself is this: do you see yourself still playing when you have everything maxed? or at least playing at the same rate you do currently?

everyone has a point at which they will stop playing, so where you spend your time grinding walls somewhat determines what ratio of time you'll spend as a th 10 as compared to th 9. so if you grind everything out as a th 9 you'll spend a smaller proportion of your clash career as a th10 (under the assumption that most people stop or reduce play time once fully maxed).

I will not comment about the fun in the game maxing walls (I find this boring) bu for clan wars a rushed base is not a dlbad thing as long as you have enough skill.

For th10 you get the infernos which means you get only 1 starable by most th9s if you are about lvl90 (I mean average th9s not those with lvl30 heroes).

For th9s (at lvl70) you get a 4th air defense. If you build nothing except the 4th air defense you take a big step because all the mid th8s can only 1 or maybe 2 star you instead of the 3 star.

There is only one mistake most players make. If you move up one th level your defense rating increases and many clans expect you to hit harder targets only because of your defense rating. Moving to th10 means you get less stars in war not better offense. Most players think only the defense rating that you can see in the order of the players on the map is used for matchmaking only when in reality the offense rating counts as well.

Getting matched with rushed th10s isn't good....especially if they have single target infernos and we don't have any freeze spells

Totally agree... I'm a fairly well advanced TH10 and I'm top in our clan on the clan war list... We often find ourselves matched up against a few TH10's and even though they may not be that good for a TH10 they have the extra defenses and are able to fill their clanmates castles with lvl 6 wizzies... Luckily our clan is pretty good so it's never hurt us too much but i definately feel that it can become a bit of a hindrance. That's why I'm gonna get by heroes to lvl 25 and then take the plunge 😆

In my last few wars, I've been matched against new or premmie TH10s (often the same thing) and I can two star them as (near) maxed TH9. What I find is my troops JUST get the town hall before the infernos get them and then i get a second star from 50%. You are correct about the power of the Inferno Tower even for premmie TH10s. I've raided massive premmie TH10s and watched my troops shredded by a single multi-inferno.

in terms of war, on the plus side, that premmie TH10 that got matched up to you is probably concerned about attacking and will go lower.

Wow this has been an awesome thread, it kinda took off. Thanks to everyone for the feedback!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tomaster1275

Walls and heroes dont make too big of a difference for wars.. Defenses do.
Maxing a town hall allows you to practice your skills while not adding a burden to your clan. The reason you're getting matched up against a lot of th10s is because most people rush, and i bet that those th10s are premies. The thing that supercell doesnt understand is that making a premie th10 be equal to a maxed th9 doesnt make sense, because the infernos make it almost impossible for a th9 to 3 star it.

---

Maxing a town hall actually causes a burden to your clan as you can get your offense on par with that TH level within the first few weeks to a month or so, depending on what TH level, while you then cap out and start upping your overall clan strength via defenses/walls. That's why a premmie TH10 will be able to crush a TH9 regardless of his level of defenses, but that same TH9 will struggle mightily to get even 2 stars regardless of the level of all his defenses. When that premmie TH10 is matched up against your near-maxed TH9, that's when you've officially become a burden/liability to your clan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lando409

Walls, for the most part dont, however Heroes absolutely make a difference.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gama321

He is referring to weighting.

but on that topic the weighting heroes have for offense is unknown and I think there is a good chance they are weighted heavily for offense due to how useful they are there. Everyone knows hero lvls don't make a difference on defence and you can see they have a low weighing there, everyone knows that infernos make a world of difference even at lvl1 and it is seen that they have a high weighting. Offense could very well follow the same logic and give heroes a high weighting.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRealNick

I do not think heroes affect rating that much, we have twice been matched with their top 2-3 having max L40 heroes when our highest are around L15...

That match was crazy cakes all round though....

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinOfDusk

After rushing my base, I can say that maxing definitely hurts you more in clan wars. I'm using th7 defenses at a th9 and I'm scored as the lowest th9. I am usually matched against new th9 or maxed th8, which allows my mid level th9 troops achieve an easy 3 star. I usually have to carry the weight of some people who maxed th8 bbecause their attacking prowess does not match their base defenses

---

I think they weight heroes pretty heavily as far as having them, but not regarding the level. I also believe they weight offense a bit more than defense overall, but that should be the case, given the benefits you have from them with being allowed 2 attacks vs "1 defense." My 2nd account went from TH8 to TH9 VERY rushed (I was like 10th out of the 12 or so TH8s that were in our clan at the time, many of them not doing a full max out, but basically maxing from my perspective).

Within the first few weeks I had my camps to 220 space, my AQ made and brought to lvl 5, my spell factory upgraded and my giants and barbs to lvl 6, and all I had really done on defense was build all the newly unlocked ones (I was focusing on taking care of offense first), and I jumped all the way above every TH8 simply from doing that (they were still active and progressing their defenses/walls during this time). I was the lowest TH9, naturally, but merely getting my offensive power to that of a TH9 and only building the new defensive buildings (not upgrading) jumped me 8 ranks in a matter of about 20 days. I'm fairly certain they weight offense heavier than defense in the algorithm.

To go back to the heroes, though: we also had a few matchups where we got some TH9s with 20/20 heroes or higher, and I remember one where we had a few TH10s with 25/25 and up, including one with lvl 40/40 and fully maxed. Meanwhile all our TH9s (we had no TH10s at the time) sat between 5/5 and 15/15, and more towards the lower end. However, that could have been more due to out of wack matchmaking than hero levels not being weighted as much.

To OP: If your priority lies more with wars than farming (meaning completing all your walls the fastest way), then you should just head to TH10. The offensive jump is once again staggering, and your heroes are already beyond what is recommended before moving up. The only downside would be that the rest of your lava walls will complete slower as a TH10, but I feel like that is very low on your list of concerns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheRealNick

I think if your offense is also max it is fine, provided you can destroy the premie TH10s.

I think the easiest way to win wars though is to have low def and high off. So when I go to TH10 I will not build infernos until my offense upgrades are done. Then I will be th10 offense getting matched against th9 defense...

We usually win we face premie TH of a higher level...

---

Our TH10s, who don't have infernos, get 2-3 starred, our TH10s who do, either never get touched or 0-1 starred.

The way it is now. A maxed TH is not as good as TH one level higher with average defenses. Would you rather go against a mid TH9 or a maxed TH8, A mid-early TH8 or a maxed TH7?

An average TH10, with infernos, more buildings to destroy, with more troops space and higher level troops available is >>>> max TH9, offensively and defensively. Hitting a TH10 is a hope for a 2 star if done right. With a TH9 you hope for a 3 star if done right and should get a 2 star easy. Plus you will have better troops to donate etc..

It could be the case.. I notice that wall counts more than heroes in clan war, and heroes count more than traps. (wall>hero>trap)
There are several max defense th 9 in my clan including me. I have higher heroes level than my clanmate but she rank two numbers higher than me in maps since she has more legos. There's another guy who has higher heroes level than me with lower traps level but he still rank higher than me because he has more legos. So that's how I conclude which counts more in war.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RIPhogz

I honestly agree, getting matched up with a rushed th10is still very hard to three star without freeze spell and that extra spell plus they have the advantage of having maxed troops in their war castles :) defs a worthwhile topic and interesting to see people's opinions

---

Exactly what I go thru Im always matched against a rushed 10. I always do my attacks with the strategy of getting 2 stars 3 is almost impossible with no freeze spell. But I do get satisfaction when I get hit with they Max Troops & not get 3 starred. Its usually a 2 star Draw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Serenejazz

It could be the case.. I notice that wall counts more than heroes in clan war, and heroes count more than traps. (wall>hero>trap)
There are several max defense th 9 in my clan including me. I have higher heroes level than my clanmate but she rank two numbers higher than me in maps since she has more legos. There's another guy who has higher heroes level than me with lower traps level but he still rank higher than me because he has more legos. So that's how I conclude which counts more in war.

---

That would be consistent with my theory that getting your heroes jumps you way ahead in clan strength, but every level you increase them hardly bumps up your strength, at least compared to defenses/walls/etc. I just wonder what the difference is between lvl 4 heroes and lvl 40 heroes in the matchmaking algorithm, b/c not only do the lvl 4s not have their abilities yet, but lvl 40s literally make or break 3-star raids on top bases when compared to lower levels.

Just a lil bump to see if anyone else had any input. Thanks so much to everyone who has contributed so far.

Im curious as to how matchmaking places you in the war, I'm currently fighting a clan who's first place person has all level 7 walls and about mid level defences, all dark troops are only level 1 and heros around 6-10 while second place has practically maxed everything for th9 with both heros almost to 20

Imo, maxing th9s will get you matched up against premie th10s. I for one can 3 star premie th10s with gowiwi or lavaloon. Infernos must be lvl1 tho. If your a th9 thats a good attacker and that can 2 star premie th10s maybe even 2 star mid th10s stay th9 if you have the patience. But ive seen your base OP and i believe you should go to th10. I think you would be more usefull for our clan wars as a th10 since sooner or later there will be alot of th10s in wars against us. That future freeze spell will come in handy plus yourbheores are already pimped out.

Max th9 if you have the patience... But at some point move on

I read the whole thread, and have no firsthand knowledge on being a TH9 I'm an almost maxed th8. I see where your coming from on rushing slightly because the inferno towers and spells are that much of an advantage on th9. This may he the only time it's worth it to move up slightly early. SC maybe should of put another TH level in there to level the playing field and decreasing the difference from 9-10

I think there are is a lot of "conventional wisdom" that doesn't apply to people that war frequently. I think maxing is the way to go... Except for TH9s in a warring clan. When you get to that point where the buildings and lab are maxed and you stick around strictly grinding walls and heroes then I think you actually start hurting your clan matchmaking wise. At TH7 and below even casual farmers can time up their upgrade so that they max their walls as the finish their lab/defenses, so most players won't face that dilemma. At TH8 a lot of players will get stuck grinding skulls after buildings/lab are done; but it's much easier for a max 8 to raid a premmie 9 then it is for max 9 to raid a premmie 10.

I know how it feels, I was until today the number 1 dude in our clan. Im what I would call a mid level th9, I have had the pleasure of been matched with th10's for the last several wars, there is absolutly no way for me to gain ground on them. My troops are okay, but the th10 always wipes me out. Ive been tempeted to just upgrade to 10 for the upgraded troops/camps. Not sure what I want to do. But to th OP, I would be upgrading to 10 if I were you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by toolz

Imo, maxing th9s will get you matched up against premie th10s. I for one can 3 star premie th10s with gowiwi or lavaloon. Infernos must be lvl1 tho. If your a th9 thats a good attacker and that can 2 star premie th10s maybe even 2 star mid th10s stay th9 if you have the patience. But ive seen your base OP and i believe you should go to th10. I think you would be more usefull for our clan wars as a th10 since sooner or later there will be alot of th10s in wars against us. That future freeze spell will come in handy plus yourbheores are already pimped out.

Max th9 if you have the patience... But at some point move on

---

Those premmie TH10s will be able to 3-star your maxed TH9 every time though, as they have and even greater offensive arsenal. And if you're getting matched up evenly against them, you're at the disadvantage, especially if you're not 100% on being able to 3-star those premmie TH10s each time.