why SC can't currently let Heroes under upgrade to compete in war

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Originally Posted by HiFliya

SC response to the technicality behind upgrading heroes and war can be found via link in my sig

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Thank you ^

With the complexity and the fact that they would initially lose money, It's understandable that this is not a priority. However, we are the customers and this is a big issue that we should continue to push for. Considering there is 50 upgrades of 7 days between the two heroes, I personally find this as the biggest issue in game.

It would make this game a lot more fun, instead of people thinking about how nice it will be when both of their heroes are 40 so they can war whenever. This game is a long journey, and the heroes not available for clan war makes clan wars a pain. It is something that is complex, but would make this game a lot more enjoyable to the players. If it can be done, which it should, I would hope supercell would give it a shot. Would increase clan war participation/enjoyment a lot.

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Originally Posted by THNSUM

I hate to be the stick in the mud but.............

not allowing upgrading heroes in war makes perfect sense. An upgrading hero is gaining new sills, or abilities or becoming stronger in some way. In other words, training or re-training if you prefer. Now let's compare that to the logic used for other troops.

I fill my barracks with troops for war, after the first archer is made i launch my attack, how many troops are available? The one archer that is finished training or all 200 (in my case) that I have waiting to finish training? Just the one right? Only the completed troops are available when you attack, if your hero is upgrading it is not completed, hence it isn't available.

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Come on, don't go trying to defend something as silly as not having heroes in war. It's a losing battle. I get the technical limitations, but given the level of development that has already gone into the game, Supercell is bluffing through their teeth if they try to tell us that it's too technically challenging. If they wanted to do it, it would be done. The fact that it's not done is not due to technical limitations. It's because they don't want to do it. Maybe it's just not a priority for them. More likely, they rely on the gem sales for people gemming their heroes to be available in war.

As for the analogies, think of the Hero as an Army Camp. It's a troop. When you are upgrading your army camp, do you lose that troop space? No.

Or, think of upgrading the Hero like upgrading a basic troop. When you are upgrading your archers, do you suddenly lose the ability to use archers until the upgrade completes?

Currently, the Hero upgrades act like upgrades to the spell factory or a barracks. Those buildings "make" things, so it makes sense that you can't "make" those things while upgrading.

But a Hero doesn't "make" things. It "is" a thing. It's a really powerful troop. And you NEVER lose the ability to use troops when upgrading troops or upgrading army camps. Or upgrading the Clan Castle for that matter.

Try all you want, from a gameplay perspective, there is no defensible reason to make the heroes unavailable while upgrading. In fact, trying to do so just makes you look silly. Don't. Just don't.

Yes, the heroes are not available in regular matchmaking. We can deal with that downtime. But in clan wars, it's just bad game design to not have them available.

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Originally Posted by Xitra

Supercell is bluffing through their teeth if they try to tell us that it's too technically challenging. If they wanted to do it, it would be done. The fact that it's not done is not due to technical limitations. It's because they don't want to do it. Maybe it's just not a priority for them. More likely, they rely on the gem sales for people gemming their heroes to be available in war.

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Maybe they don't want to do it because as SC said, there are too many technical considerations. Why can't technical considerations be the chief reason why they don't want to do it? Nothing you've said here excludes that possibility, so how can you say that it's a fact that the reason this isn't done is not a technical one?

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Originally Posted by dahimi

Maybe they don't want to do it because as SC said, there are too many technical considerations. Why can't technical considerations be the chief reason why they don't want to do it? Nothing you've said here excludes that possibility, so how can you say that it's a fact that the reason this isn't done is not a technical one?

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C'mon man! Supercell isn't sitting around at meetings saying "man I wish we could provide this feature but it's just too darn hard." This isn't an impossible thing to do, but having to create an update that will take man hours and initially decrease revenue is the issue. I'm sure they have considered it, but unless threads like this pop up with people pushing for this to happen, why would they do it?

Solution: when you press battle, what ever hero Lvl you are at you can attack with it. This does not affect regeneration time on farm village. If you are upgrading a hero you get the lvl before the uprade. Don't connect the two at all. Heck even if it's not perfect, there will be more people happy than upset.

Lol, am I being trolled with this kitty thing?

nvm, officially new guy now!

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Originally Posted by dahimi

Maybe they don't want to do it because as SC said, there are too many technical considerations. Why can't technical considerations be the chief reason why they don't want to do it? Nothing you've said here excludes that possibility, so how can you say that it's a fact that the reason this isn't done is not a technical one?

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Clash of Clans is a computer game. (Well, played on phones and tablets, but those are little computers too.) There's data, there's graphics, there's programming, all tied up in one elaborate client-server system. The game itself is immensely complicated, at least if you're starting from scratch.

And yet there it is. Countless thousands of programmer hours and artist hours, etc.

We're talking about fixing one little piece of the puzzle. Are we afraid we'll break the puzzle?

All upgrades have one price. There's just the one upgrade button. Then, lo and behold, elixir walls come along. Two different prices (well, same price, two different units of measure). Two buttons. One can be red, meaning insufficient resources, while the other isn't.

Did this break the upgrade button for all other types of upgrades? No. Why? Because they made this specific change to the game target the one thing it was intended for: walls.

Heck, at lower level walls, that second button isn't even there.

Making heroes available in war might be a little more complicated, but not much. And while we're on the subject of war, think about how complicated that update was. Making copies of villages which last for 24 hours, just for the purpose of war. Heck, I can start building a wizard tower, and then cancel it after the war starts. (Did that in my last war, haha!) Now the war base has a structure in it, which doesn't even exist in my actual village!!!

What are the challenges? Regeneration countdown not available while the Hero is upgrading? That's probably the only real challenge I see. Someone mentioned somewhere what happens if a Hero finishes upgrading during an attack. Well, what happens if my level 4 archer upgrade completes while I'm attacking? Shouldn't even be a real question...

Regeneration timer while the hero is upgrading: if we display it on the main village, it might imply that once it's done regenerating, you'll be able to use it for regular matchmaking. And it wouldn't make any more sense to display it on the war map, since that might imply that it can't defend in war until it has regenerated. So yeah, a compromise will have to be made somehow.

Well how about this? Why have regeneration for clan war anyway? Why can't it just be available? If you knock out your BK and AQ and they're both supposed to be knocked out for 1.5 hours, if you go into your second CW attack after just half an hour, why does is it matter that the king and queen are available right away?

If that doesn't sit well with you, we could put a timer somewhere. Put it on the main village. Put it on the war village. At this point, it's not so much a technical limitation, as simply a user interface design issue. One that shouldn't be hard to overcome for a company as successful as Supercell.

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Originally Posted by IUJimmy

C'mon man! Supercell isn't sitting around at meetings saying "man I wish we could provide this feature but it's just too darn hard." This isn't an impossible thing to do, but having to create an update that will take man hours and initially decrease revenue is the issue. I'm sure they have considered it, but unless threads like this pop up with people pushing for this to happen, why would they do it?

Solution: when you press battle, what ever hero Lvl you are at you can attack with it. This does not affect regeneration time on farm village. If you are upgrading a hero you get the lvl before the uprade. Don't connect the two at all. Heck even if it's not perfect, there will be more people happy than upset.

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See that's almost possible. The two bases, the War Base and the Normal base are tethered together, but they operate separately. That being said, they are tethered by the fact that WarBases need the data of each of all of your buildings/walls/traps, camps, Heroes etc. Other than that things like the CC and the Spell Factory,don't matter since they have no real impact on the Base other than the buildings info

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Originally Posted by IUJimmy

Lol, am I being trolled with this kitty thing?

nvm, officially new guy now!

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That's just the Forum ranks, they change with post count

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Originally Posted by IUJimmy

C'mon man! Supercell isn't sitting around at meetings saying "man I wish we could provide this feature but it's just too darn hard." This isn't an impossible thing to do, but having to create an update that will take man hours and initially decrease revenue is the issue.

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Isn't that pretty much what I said...well except for the revenue part?

However, everyone assumes that it's the potential loss of revenue and not the technical considerations that are the issue. This may be true...it may not be. However, people act like they know when they actually have no clue. SC has told us that technical considerations are the reason. Is there anything to be gained by calling them liars?

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Originally Posted by IUJimmy

I'm sure they have considered it, but unless threads like this pop up with people pushing for this to happen, why would they do it?

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Many many many threads have popped up with people pushing for this. They know people want it. What makes you think posting this over and over again will somehow change their mind or reduce the technical requirements?

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Originally Posted by IUJimmy

Solution: when you press battle, what ever hero Lvl you are at you can attack with it. This does not affect regeneration time on farm village. If you are upgrading a hero you get the lvl before the uprade. Don't connect the two at all. Heck even if it's not perfect, there will be more people happy than upset.

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The issue at hand is that they don't want the hero to be available during typical battles. In fact most of the complaints are specifically geared toward clan wars. The technical difficultly apparently is creating a whole separate battle mechanic just for clan wars, which is the exact thing being asked for.

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Originally Posted by Xitra

Clash of Clans is a computer game. (Well, played on phones and tablets, but those are little computers too.) There's data, there's graphics, there's programming, all tied up in one elaborate client-server system. The game itself is immensely complicated, at least if you're starting from scratch.

And yet there it is. Countless thousands of programmer hours and artist hours, etc.

We're talking about fixing one little piece of the puzzle. Are we afraid we'll break the puzzle?

All upgrades have one price. There's just the one upgrade button. Then, lo and behold, elixir walls come along. Two different prices (well, same price, two different units of measure). Two buttons. One can be red, meaning insufficient resources, while the other isn't.

Did this break the upgrade button for all other types of upgrades? No. Why? Because they made this specific change to the game target the one thing it was intended for: walls.

Heck, at lower level walls, that second button isn't even there.

Making heroes available in war might be a little more complicated, but not much. And while we're on the subject of war, think about how complicated that update was. Making copies of villages which last for 24 hours, just for the purpose of war. Heck, I can start building a wizard tower, and then cancel it after the war starts. (Did that in my last war, haha!) Now the war base has a structure in it, which doesn't even exist in my actual village!!!

What are the challenges? Regeneration countdown not available while the Hero is upgrading? That's probably the only real challenge I see. Someone mentioned somewhere what happens if a Hero finishes upgrading during an attack. Well, what happens if my level 4 archer upgrade completes while I'm attacking? Shouldn't even be a real question...

Regeneration timer while the hero is upgrading: if we display it on the main village, it might imply that once it's done regenerating, you'll be able to use it for regular matchmaking. And it wouldn't make any more sense to display it on the war map, since that might imply that it can't defend in war until it has regenerated. So yeah, a compromise will have to be made somehow.

Well how about this? Why have regeneration for clan war anyway? Why can't it just be available? If you knock out your BK and AQ and they're both supposed to be knocked out for 1.5 hours, if you go into your second CW attack after just half an hour, why does is it matter that the king and queen are available right away?

If that doesn't sit well with you, we could put a timer somewhere. Put it on the main village. Put it on the war village. At this point, it's not so much a technical limitation, as simply a user interface design issue. One that shouldn't be hard to overcome for a company as successful as Supercell.

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You're basically comparing apples and oranges here. Just because they were able to implement one change doesn't mean they can just as easily add another one.

Also it has nothing to do with what does or does not sit with me. SC has indicated they are not likely to add this feature due to the complexities involved. Since you don't actually know the complexities involved, anything you say regarding this topic is merely conjecture.

Basically you're accusing them of lying with absolutely zero proof that they are. Then you support this argument by saying, "Well they added elixir walls so, yeah they can this too."

Most likely the technical issue here is in having a different set of mechanics used for attacking when something is a war base vs a normal one. Right now the game uses the same exact mechanics in both cases. It's not technically impossible (they never said it was), but it might be technically infeasible. As in, too much work for not enough reward.

It might also represent on going challenges as every future attack change would have to coded for both sets of mechanics as well as QA'd for both sets of mechanics.

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Originally Posted by dahimi

Isn't that pretty much what I said...well except for the revenue part?

However, everyone assumes that it's the potential loss of revenue and not the technical considerations that are the issue. This may be true...it may not be. However, people act like they know when they actually have no clue. SC has told us that technical considerations are the reason. Is there anything to be gained by calling them liars?



Many many many threads have popped up with people pushing for this. They know people want it. What makes you think posting this over and over again will somehow change their mind or reduce the technical requirements?



The issue at hand is that they don't want the hero to be available during typical battles. In fact most of the complaints are specifically geared toward clan wars. The technical difficultly apparently is creating a whole separate battle mechanic just for clan wars, which is the exact thing being asked for.



You're basically comparing apples and oranges here. Just because they were able to implement one change doesn't mean they can just as easily add another one.

Also it has nothing to do with what does or does not sit with me. SC has indicated they are not likely to add this feature due to the complexities involved. Since you don't actually know the complexities involved, anything you say regarding this topic is merely conjecture.

Basically you're accusing them of lying with absolutely zero proof that they are. Then you support this argument by saying, "Well they added elixir walls so, yeah they can this too."

Most likely the technical issue here is in having a different set of mechanics used for attacking when something is a war base vs a normal one. Right now the game uses the same exact mechanics in both cases. It's not technically impossible (they never said it was), but it might be technically infeasible. As in, too much work for not enough reward.

It might also represent on going challenges as every future attack change would have to coded for both sets of mechanics as well as QA'd for both sets of mechanics.

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I hate to argue with you, because I like most of your threads and posts.

But you're basically saying that a multi-billion dollar company that has created one of the most successful games in app history, isn't capable of solving a simple design problem. I really don't buy it.

If they have hundreds of features that they want to implement, then sure, the average feature will be evaluated based on anticipated difficulty to implement, and if it's even moderately difficult, it will be shelved.

So if using heroes in clan wars is just one typical, average feature request out of hundreds, then yes, I wouldn't be surprised that it gets shelved due to technical complexity.

But clan wars are a central aspect of the game, and using heroes in battle is a central aspect of attacking at high levels. In short, the ability to use heroes during clan wars is a critical feature of the game. It's not a nice-to-have. It's a must-have. The fact that it's missing is a border-line bug, a feature so asinine that they should be ashamed it's part of the game.

Imagine if your upgrading defenses couldn't be used during clan wars. That's basically what not having a hero on attack is like. Now you have to prioritize, would I rather upgrade my AD, or risk getting 3-starred by someone a TH level below in war me because I've left a gaping hole in my aerial defenses? (I've heard that's how clan wars were in the beginning?)

This is such a crucial aspect of gameplay, it's patently absurd that Supercell is okay with it as is, at least from the perspective of keeping their customers happy.

Logically, the only thing keeping them from prioritizing this feature to be on their top 10 list of features is something other than keeping customers happy. I wonder what that could be....

Supercell does know it's a problem, and more threads just shows them how strongly people want the change. More threads and requests for change = better chance of it happening. I know it's not the first or last last thread, but showing your support for a change never hurts.

Regardless of how many hours it takes, it is possible. So it may not be as easy as we think, but there has to be a way to make it work. Now this would improve clash of clans being a great game immensely, so why not? Man hours and programming is money spent to fix this issue. Then the reward for helping us would be people spending less gems. So why wouldn't this happen?

Money.

So supercell has to choose between money or making a change to upgrade game and make game more enjoyable to customers. It can potentially make its money back from people wanting to support a company that will do anything for its customers.