3 Air Defenses for TH7

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Originally Posted by Scuba061

I'm sorry. You said your problem was that you can't defend it and you are automatically 3 starred everytime. The fact that not everyone uses it is very relevant because you won't be 3 starred everytime.

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There's no need to continue this with you. Thanks for your feedback.

You bring in 3 ADs at TH7 and you effectively make useless the healer troop, with the exception of the 7 days you spend at TH6.

So you have the dragon, which you're right, will 3-star any other TH7 unless the most incompetent raider is dropping them, but then they are immediately kept from being 3-star machines at TH8 and higher (good TH8 bases can even limit them to 1 star on a relatively frequent basis). But you totally kill off a troop from being useful pretty much at all.

Dragons are completely balanced, in the sense of regular farming/raiding, as they have such high costs associated to them as well as a lengthy time/housing space cook time. The problem you're seeing is that after SC upped the war loots for both wins and losses, it makes little to no sense to do any other attack as a TH7, as the elixir cost risk is mitigated.

An alternative that would work without totally screwing other forms of armies would be to simply scale the dragon's stats differently. Spread the outliers wider, so that lvl 1's start at a much lower DPS/HP rate, but then each upgrade goes up by a larger margin. The stats could equalize the current ones at level 3, and lvl 4 would go a bit higher than the current level 4 stats. Of course, you would need to scale the elixir costs associated with the dragons down for the first 2 lvls as well, as it then imbalances their attractiveness for regular farming/trophy pushing.

I love me some dragons at TH7, and I've heard plenty of people say that at TH9, and especially at TH10, no one uses them anymore. So it sounds to me like they need a nerf at low levels, but a buff at high levels.

Personally, the best idea I've seen to balance dragons is to nerf level 1 dragons and buff level 4 dragons.

Right now, each upgrade buys 20 DPS and 200 health. So the simplest solution is to make each upgrade buy 30 DPS and 300 health. Then adjust the DPS and health so that level 2 (or level 3) dragons are unchanged. For example, here is how it would look if you left level 3 unchanged (so level 1 and 2 both get nerfed).

For example:

Level	1	2	3	4
DPS	120	150	180	210
Health	1700	2000	2300	2600

Personally, I think nerfing the DPS is better than nerfing the health. The high health makes them great tanks to shield balloons! And a dragon-balloon raid is far more interesting than all-dragons.

So I would make the numbers the same as above, except add 100 to the health at all levels. In effect, the DPS would remain unchanged at level 3, but the health would remain unchanged at level 2!

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Originally Posted by Goobers

You bring in 3 ADs at TH7 and you effectively make useless the healer troop, with the exception of the 7 days you spend at TH6.

So you have the dragon, which you're right, will 3-star any other TH7 unless the most incompetent raider is dropping them, but then they are immediately kept from being 3-star machines at TH8 and higher (good TH8 bases can even limit them to 1 star on a relatively frequent basis). But you totally kill off a troop from being useful pretty much at all.

Dragons are completely balanced, in the sense of regular farming/raiding, as they have such high costs associated to them as well as a lengthy time/housing space cook time. The problem you're seeing is that after SC upped the war loots for both wins and losses, it makes little to no sense to do any other attack as a TH7, as the elixir cost risk is mitigated.

An alternative that would work without totally screwing other forms of armies would be to simply scale the dragon's stats differently. Spread the outliers wider, so that lvl 1's start at a much lower DPS/HP rate, but then each upgrade goes up by a larger margin. The stats could equalize the current ones at level 3, and lvl 4 would go a bit higher than the current level 4 stats. Of course, you would need to scale the elixir costs associated with the dragons down for the first 2 lvls as well, as it then imbalances their attractiveness for regular farming/trophy pushing.

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Wow, a logical idea. Thought I wasn't going to hear the end of "not everyone uses it." Your alternative idea actually makes the most sense. I, for one, wouldn't mind that at all. Most people don't use dragons to farm anyway. Their elixir profits would be greatly reduced. As for trophy pushing, there are many different army compositions that are used. I don't see dragons very often, as they take forever to build (even with boost). But great idea nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by FBSJR

You have a point on the giant/healer becoming almost irrelevant. Any other suggestions? As far as failing attacks by "incompetent attackers," that's user error. I can personally say I've never achieved less than three Stars on a TH7 with 10-11 dragons + 3 lightning spells. It's true no base is 100% defendable, but the same holds true for said attack strategy. TH7 defenses simply cannot hold well against dragons. Even level one dragons. It's an automatic three-star if done correctly. Only user error prevents a perfect score.

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To say that user error prevents a perfect score with dragons is incredibly generous.

I have taken down TH7s with 7 dragons and no spells. I've done it with 3 lightnings and dropping only 4 dragons. I've had some fun with clanmates and did a couple war attacks without spells where I literally rolled my face on the screen dropping 10 of them and have never not pulled off a 3-star. It is intellectually dishonest to say that mass dragons don't always 3-star TH7s, as the ones who don't either wait half the battle to drop 8 of them, or send them in one at a time--basically they are trying to not 3-star the base. Any TH7 that doesn't get 3-starred by mass dragons are a statistical outlier.

That said, refer to my post above. Adding another AD is absolutely not the solution.

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Originally Posted by Goobers

To say that user error prevents a perfect score with dragons is incredibly generous.

I have taken down TH7s with 7 dragons and no spells. I've done it with 3 lightnings and dropping only 4 dragons. I've had some fun with clanmates and did a couple war attacks without spells where I literally rolled my face on the screen dropping 10 of them and have never not pulled off a 3-star. It is intellectually dishonest to say that mass dragons don't always 3-star TH7s, as the ones who don't either wait half the battle to drop 8 of them, or send them in one at a time--basically they are trying to not 3-star the base. Any TH7 that doesn't get 3-starred by mass dragons are a statistical outlier.

That said, refer to my post above. Adding another AD is absolutely not the solution.

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You just made my day!:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Xitra

I love me some dragons at TH7, and I've heard plenty of people say that at TH9, and especially at TH10, no one uses them anymore. So it sounds to me like they need a nerf at low levels, but a buff at high levels.

Personally, the best idea I've seen to balance dragons is to nerf level 1 dragons and buff level 4 dragons.

Right now, each upgrade buys 20 DPS and 200 health. So the simplest solution is to make each upgrade buy 30 DPS and 300 health. Then adjust the DPS and health so that level 2 (or level 3) dragons are unchanged. For example, here is how it would look if you left level 3 unchanged (so level 1 and 2 both get nerfed).

For example:

Level	1	2	3	4
DPS	120	150	180	210
Health	1700	2000	2300	2600

Personally, I think nerfing the DPS is better than nerfing the health. The high health makes them great tanks to shield balloons! And a dragon-balloon raid is far more interesting than all-dragons.

So I would make the numbers the same as above, except add 100 to the health at all levels. In effect, the DPS would remain unchanged at level 3, but the health would remain unchanged at level 2!

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You're on about the same track as Goobers. Obviously there would need to be a cost adjustment to compensate the weaker dragons, but I like the idea. I love dragons too. I just don't like seeing weaker TH7s in my clan getting wrecked by them EVERY SINGLE WAR.

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Originally Posted by Goobers

To say that user error prevents a perfect score with dragons is incredibly generous.

I have taken down TH7s with 7 dragons and no spells. I've done it with 3 lightnings and dropping only 4 dragons. I've had some fun with clanmates and did a couple war attacks without spells where I literally rolled my face on the screen dropping 10 of them and have never not pulled off a 3-star. It is intellectually dishonest to say that mass dragons don't always 3-star TH7s, as the ones who don't either wait half the battle to drop 8 of them, or send them in one at a time--basically they are trying to not 3-star the base. Any TH7 that doesn't get 3-starred by mass dragons are a statistical outlier.

That said, refer to my post above. Adding another AD is absolutely not the solution.

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Well another AD may not be the solution. Actually, it isn't. It would break other army compositions, and make some units useless. The title was more or less an attention grabber intended to get users to read to post, then come up with other suggestions and ideas. Something I learned in a writing course some years ago. That's all. Your idea was great as well.

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Originally Posted by jobro

You just made my day!:rolleyes:

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Thanks! Your rebuttal to the OP by saying that mass dragons is a "strategy" is laughable.

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Originally Posted by FBSJR

Your alternative idea actually makes the most sense. I, for one, wouldn't mind that at all. Most people don't use dragons to farm anyway. Their elixir profits would be greatly reduced. As for trophy pushing, there are many different army compositions that are used. I don't see dragons very often, as they take forever to build (even with boost). But great idea nonetheless.

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The only time I used dragons for farming was at TH8, when I was heading to TH9. I did the boosted barracks/spell factory and had the 8 dragon/40 archer army composition set up. The goal here was to farm DE that I needed for my upcoming AQ when TH9 completed. And I farmed that DE at an insane rate (8k-11k per boost session!). I don't know if scaling back the first 2 levels would be enough to have sent me away from using them in regular farming, but if it meant I wasn't able to crack into those oil storages up in the Crystal leagues, I wouldn't have used them at all.

That's what you have to be mindful to not do: trying to fix one problem but it leading to the creation of two other problems. I think scaling the outliers would still make them effective, also reducing the cost along with that would have allowed me to run a few more raids before totally depleting my elixir which could offset the bases I wouldn't be able to hit with the new strength of the dragons.

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Originally Posted by FBSJR

You're on about the same track as Goobers. Obviously there would need to be a cost adjustment to compensate the weaker dragons, but I like the idea. I love dragons too. I just don't like seeing weaker TH7s in my clan getting wrecked by them EVERY SINGLE WAR.

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I'm pretty sure I got the idea from Goobers last week. I just put it in a table.