Improve healer AI

A few threads lament that healers are poor at higher levels. Yes they are. They take up a lot of space, and then don't perform well. Why don't they perform well, I think is because their AI is not up to the complex battlefields at higher levels. Basically, they stupidly abandon the troops needing healing (eg giants) and focus instead on mass pawns, such as bunched archers. They seem to be drawn by numbers. I suggest that this shuld be changed.


I suggest that healers need an AI change, such that they will preferentially heal by troop type. Probably, this should be by troop tanking quality. Giants ahead of barbarians ahead of archers. Possibly simply rank the preference by troop initial hit points, and not by battlefield bunching.

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Originally Posted by George1971

A few threads lament that healers are poor at higher levels. Yes they are. They take up a lot of space, and then don't perform well. Why don't they perform well, I think is because their AI is not up to the complex battlefields at higher levels. Basically, they stupidly abandon the troops needing healing (eg giants) and focus instead on mass pawns, such as bunched archers. They seem to be drawn by numbers. I suggest that this shuld be changed.


I suggest that healers need an AI change, such that they will preferentially heal by troop type. Probably, this should be by troop tanking quality. Giants ahead of barbarians ahead of archers. Possibly simply rank the preference by troop initial hit points, and not by battlefield bunching.

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That would be a pretty good fix to the healer AI. But then there will be those that complain that I continues to keep healing the 1 giant and leaving a bunch of giants.

So here is my proposal. In a 1 tile radius (or however much a healer heal splashes), the game calculates how many total initial hit points are there and choose that. They will continue with that "group" unless something happens to snap it out of its "coma" in which it will recalculate.

Who uses healers past TH6 anyway.

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Originally Posted by Pyroflame

Who uses healers past TH6 anyway.

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i use healer as part of my standart army

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Originally Posted by George1971

A few threads lament that healers are poor at higher levels. Yes they are. They take up a lot of space, and then don't perform well. Why don't they perform well, I think is because their AI is not up to the complex battlefields at higher levels. Basically, they stupidly abandon the troops needing healing (eg giants) and focus instead on mass pawns, such as bunched archers. They seem to be drawn by numbers. I suggest that this shuld be changed.


I suggest that healers need an AI change, such that they will preferentially heal by troop type. Probably, this should be by troop tanking quality. Giants ahead of barbarians ahead of archers. Possibly simply rank the preference by troop initial hit points, and not by battlefield bunching.

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I am not sure what you describe is the fix. But t might be nice if they did fond some ways to make the healer worth using at some of the upper levels. As things stand now it becomes obsolete after a point. Maybe a range increase (so that if in a straight line it can't get reached by an AD that's being attacked by giants it is healing. The attack has to come from the side to get it) or maybe an HP increase to make it last longer or less spaces.

But also if healer/golem became viable I am not sure how that might work, maybe too OP.

Ikr! Healer serious need AI improvement.
I use her in my army ALL the time.
But she is a bit stupid, she sometimes sticks to healing fully healed groups of giants that are not taking any damage from cannons or any defenses at all, when I have a few wizards that are being attacked and need healing really badly.
I know Supercell already improved healer AI, but she needs to go to college for her to be this smart
XD

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Originally Posted by Pyroflame

Who uses healers past TH6 anyway.

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What is it about TH7 that makes the healer suddenly useless? Dragons? Pfft!

A giant-healer army backed up by barch and/or wizards is pretty fun at TH7, especially with rage spells (I use 1 heal 2 rage). Sure it's not as effective as mass dragons or hog riders, but far cheaper than either.

I can't speak for TH8, but at TH7 the healer still seems quite effective, at least against TH7 and lower bases. TH8's with their 3 AD's still scare me away though, lol!

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Originally Posted by Xitra

What is it about TH7 that makes the healer suddenly useless? Dragons? Pfft!

A giant-healer army backed up by barch and/or wizards is pretty fun at TH7, especially with rage spells (I use 1 heal 2 rage). Sure it's not as effective as mass dragons or hog riders, but far cheaper than either.

I can't speak for TH8, but at TH7 the healer still seems quite effective, at least against TH7 and lower bases. TH8's with their 3 AD's still scare me away though, lol!

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I was an avid giant-healer user that didn't believe in the almighty power of barching. I even used it for a few weeks after upgrading to town hall 8. But I was getting sick of having to pick on town hall 7 and rushed town hall 8s. So I tried barcher.

End of story.

You are right, air defences scare me off. I like the improvement, but I don't think it would make me use healers again. Maybe when I get to higher leagues, but at this stage, there isn't any point in using healers for me.

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Originally Posted by Pyroflame

Who uses healers past TH6 anyway.

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I think that's the point of this thread.

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Originally Posted by MrH

I think that's the point of this thread.

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Yes. To improve healer AI just a little, to make them sometimes possibly not useless above TH6/7

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Originally Posted by EmeraldRange

I was an avid giant-healer user that didn't believe in the almighty power of barching. I even used it for a few weeks after upgrading to town hall 8. But I was getting sick of having to pick on town hall 7 and rushed town hall 8s. So I tried barcher.

End of story.

You are right, air defences scare me off. I like the improvement, but I don't think it would make me use healers again. Maybe when I get to higher leagues, but at this stage, there isn't any point in using healers for me.

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You do have to search a bit using giant/healer at higher levels but they're there. A lot of ppl ignore their AD upgrades and/or place them on the outer edges of heir base, where they're easy to take down before placing healers. I much prefer my healers chasing after a hoard of barbs than a small group of giants, so I like it the way it is. I'm maxed TH8 and giant/healer is all I've been using since TH6. Served me very well.

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Originally Posted by Pyroflame

Who uses healers past TH6 anyway.

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Lol. You obviously have given up on the healer. Feel pretty sorry for you. I took two healers in war with me and 3 starred a TH10 base. You shouldn't underestimate the healer, their ability helps keep your troops alive which is like carrying an infinite heal spell. I mean games like Final Fantasy require you to heal your characters to help get you by for tough opponents.

Why not give each unit a number of importance, giants and other tanks being 5 and archers and t1 troops being 1.

The healer calculates what area of the base has the most "importance" and bam, AI fixed. 1 giant = 5 archers.

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Originally Posted by z3chfatee

Why not give each unit a number of importance, giants and other tanks being 5 and archers and t1 troops being 1.

The healer calculates what area of the base has the most "importance" and bam, AI fixed. 1 giant = 5 archers.

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It would be great if this were user-customisable. Maybe an feature that unlocks at high level, so people who like their healer to prefer to heal one thing can do that, and others something different. I have wanted the healers to lock onto the King, but they get distracted by the archer backup troops, so I would like to up-weight the King, and down-weight archers. Megalomania would want to up-weight barbarians.

Would this be too complicated for the players, maybe, that's why it would be an optional feature at high level. It's only needed at high level, when the battlefield can be chaotic.

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Originally Posted by George1971

It would be great if this were user-customisable. Maybe an feature that unlocks at high level, so people who like their healer to prefer to heal one thing can do that, and others something different. I have wanted the healers to lock onto the King, but they get distracted by the archer backup troops, so I would like to up-weight the King, and down-weight archers. Megalomania would want to up-weight barbarians.

Would this be too complicated for the players, maybe, that's why it would be an optional feature at high level. It's only needed at high level, when the battlefield can be chaotic.

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The healers as they are now actually are more prone to lock onto your king or queen. Just use them a few times in your raids and you will notice it too. The healer seems to have more of a hierarchial system of healing as it is now. They seem to heal in the order of higher tiered troops first. For example: healer placed on Pekka, then if pekka dies, healer moves to wizards, then to giants, etc. If dark troops are mixed in your army I think dark troops take priority as de is more rare but the same hierarchial system would apply, i.e. golems, then witches, etc.

The problem I see with the healer now is that it does still tend to heal that one troop that has broken away from a group all because that troop seems to be of more importance (the hierarchy of troops). So the way, at least how I think, the healer works now is based on hierarchy and biggest group. The healer follows that top tier troop within the biggest group of troops.

The fix, IMO, should be that healers heal troops that are in need of health within her range...no two ways about it. I don't believe supercell has experimented with the healer enough to make her be multi-tasked in keeping two groups alive by constantly switching between them. Also, the fix might be as easy as giving the healer at least two streams of healing rays for two groups. That of course would be overpowered I think. But even if that did happen eventually the healer will run into an air mine that ultimately kills her because her health sucks bad :-/

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Originally Posted by Champion

The healers as they are now actually are more prone to lock onto your king or queen. Just use them a few times in your raids and you will notice it too. The healer seems to have more of a hierarchial system of healing as it is now. They seem to heal in the order of higher tiered troops first. For example: healer placed on Pekka, then if pekka dies, healer moves to wizards, then to giants, etc. If dark troops are mixed in your army I think dark troops take priority as de is more rare but the same hierarchial system would apply, i.e. golems, then witches, etc.

The problem I see with the healer now is that it does still tend to heal that one troop that has broken away from a group all because that troop seems to be of more importance (the hierarchy of troops). So the way, at least how I think, the healer works now is based on hierarchy and biggest group. The healer follows that top tier troop within the biggest group of troops.

The fix, IMO, should be that healers heal troops that are in need of health within her range...no two ways about it. I don't believe supercell has experimented with the healer enough to make her be multi-tasked in keeping two groups alive by constantly switching between them. Also, the fix might be as easy as giving the healer at least two streams of healing rays for two groups. That of course would be overpowered I think. But even if that did happen eventually the healer will run into an air mine that ultimately kills her because her health sucks bad :-/

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Yes, I have noticed the hierarchical preference. However, I think numbers, or total healing in one spot, plays a role too. I am sure I have had the healer abandon the King in favour of bunched archers that were just splash damaged. Maybe the King had just been returned to full health, quite possibly. The AI is not unreasonable. However, once locked on to these archers, the healer sticks with them down to the last archer, unless all fully healed. What would be nice, I think, would be if the healer would regularly re-scan a wider area to see if there is a higher ranked bunch of troops it should be attending.

They should just do for the healer what they did with lava hounds and give those healers more hitpoints. Then people will love them again haha. It seems reasonable considering the healer takes up nearly half the space of a lava hound so why not give her half the hitpoints of a lava hound?

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Originally Posted by Champion

They should just do for the healer what they did with lava hounds and give those healers more hitpoints. Then people will love them again haha. It seems reasonable considering the healer takes up nearly half the space of a lava hound so why not give her half the hitpoints of a lava hound?

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Yes, also true. More hitpoints or less housing space. However, the fix is needed at high levels, not low levels, so I guess that lowering housing space won't be the solution.

I raided just a few minutes ago in a war on a base i could easily 3 star with gowipe but i decided to try something new out with my new lv3 valks. I did an ALL valk attack with 4 healers (i have done this before but with a lower level valk). When i went into the raid i did what i usualy do at the start of a raid (kill out cc troops and try locate traps) then i released my valks and healers which were able to do heaps of damage... before i deployed my cc... Which had a golem in it. Suddenly the healers switched target from the valks that were getting mowed by defences and went to the golem who was not being attacked at all. The healers kept that target the whole game until there was one valkyrie left and decided to help her out but were taken out by high level air defence before reaching her. Leaving me with a stubborn golem at a wall and 1 star :(

I use healers vs rushed th10 and can 2 star mid-th bases with blind spots in base design

I have used healers waaaay past th7 and have 3 states those weak th10 using the Valkyrie Tornado

That being said the hierarchy of healing units is a huge issue for me. Heros are the cornerstone of a th10 attack but I DO NOT want healers focusing on my heros who get a penalty in healing. Very often they will leave my units to die by healing a hero.

The recent AI change was an improvement as my healer overall sticks with a group of units easier, in particular if heros aren't along.

However, how my healer will stick to a hero even if they have full health. I recently used my queens attack to get her go to 100% thinking the healer would find a new target..... Not the case. She wasn't even taking damage....

That and give her a new level!

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Originally Posted by TheACEMan2000

I raided just a few minutes ago in a war on a base i could easily 3 star with gowipe but i decided to try something new out with my new lv3 valks. I did an ALL valk attack with 4 healers (i have done this before but with a lower level valk). When i went into the raid i did what i usualy do at the start of a raid (kill out cc troops and try locate traps) then i released my valks and healers which were able to do heaps of damage... before i deployed my cc... Which had a golem in it. Suddenly the healers switched target from the valks that were getting mowed by defences and went to the golem who was not being attacked at all. The healers kept that target the whole game until there was one valkyrie left and decided to help her out but were taken out by high level air defence before reaching her. Leaving me with a stubborn golem at a wall and 1 star :(

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That is the hierarchial system I mentioned. Also...you should have deployed golem first anyhow. They are meant to be the "tank" and all defenses in range would lock on to it first and ignore your valks. And one last thing, valks in wars aren't really a good idea as they target everything.

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Originally Posted by ChiefN8

Ikr! Healer serious need AI improvement.
I use her in my army ALL the time.
But she is a bit stupid, she sometimes sticks to healing fully healed groups of giants that are not taking any damage from cannons or any defenses at all, when I have a few wizards that are being attacked and need healing really badly.
I know Supercell already improved healer AI, but she needs to go to college for her to be this smart
XD

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Yup, she needs to start reading books like the wall breaker did.

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Originally Posted by Kirrily

Yup, she needs to start reading books like the wall breaker did.

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the wallbreaker isn't really perfect either yet supercell has not made any adjustments. Often I will see my wb target the end piece of the same wall to a compartment that a previously deployed wb has already blown a hole into. But supposedly the wbs were made to go deeper into the base and look for "new compartments" to blow up.

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Originally Posted by Xitra

What is it about TH7 that makes the healer suddenly useless? Dragons? Pfft!

A giant-healer army backed up by barch and/or wizards is pretty fun at TH7, especially with rage spells (I use 1 heal 2 rage). Sure it's not as effective as mass dragons or hog riders, but far cheaper than either.

I can't speak for TH8, but at TH7 the healer still seems quite effective, at least against TH7 and lower bases. TH8's with their 3 AD's still scare me away though, lol!

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The second air defence scares people using healers, and start using more air troops (Dragons) at TH7, it's ironic.