Definition of a farmer

I have been reading this forum since it's inception, I don't comment too often and haven't started any threads, but something that has been starting to bug me is how the word farmer has been so definitively defined amongst the community to included base design troop usage etc. It seems to me that as a whole the forum, has decided that to be a farmer means:

You lower you trophies
You have your Townhall outside for a cheap shield
You only used efficient elixir/time troops
You have your storages locked up in the middle of your base

Now while all these things are fairly typical of a farmer as they tend to have a positive outcome and I am not here to argue the effectiveness of the tactics not one of these things is either required or only used by a farmer.

The process of "farming" is certainly not unique to Clash of Clans it happens in many, many, games, and is the term used to describe performing the same action over and over and over again in order to attain a goal through persistence and shear numbers.

Incidentally the use of terms on this forum implies that there are 2 polar opposite playing styles, however both are in fact are forms of farming and are not mutually exclusive namely: A trophy hunter is someone who farms trophies and a farmer is someone who farms resources.

In principle I have no issues with referring to a player who farms resources as a farmer, I do have issue however in the implication that this means in order to farm resources have to follow a single strategy for that process.

Initially the discussions started with the statement that a farm will typically do x,y,z. Of late however the discussion has become dogmatic and religious with sweeping statements like "If your townhall is not outside you are not a farmer" and statement like "if your town hall is outside you are a farmer".

Basically the thing that is bugging me is that as time passes we seem to have more and more advocates of the 1 size fits all mentality, and this reduces the value of discussions, someone will ask for some advise and the answer that person gets en mass is the same bog standard answer and little attention is given to the surrounding circumstance which the OP has often painstakingly laid out.

All I am really asking is that the reason we have this forum is to share and help each other grow not to bludgeon everyone into a sheep mentality.

I wouldn't consider farming as just lowering trophies. It can also mean raising them. I just consider farming as valuing resource over trophies.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "a sheep mentality". People have their own definitions of farming, and that's fine. If there's a majority that thinks farming is what you mentioned, base design, army comp, etc, why hate?

You have your own opinion, fine. I have my opinion, fine. We all have our own opinion on what farming means. Just because a lot of people agree on the same thing doesn't mean you have to bash on them.

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Originally Posted by AngrehBard

I just consider farming as valuing resource over trophies.

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10Characters

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Originally Posted by AngrehBard

I wouldn't consider farming as just lowering trophies. It can also mean raising them. I just consider farming as valuing resource over trophies.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "a sheep mentality". People have their own definitions of farming, and that's fine. If there's a majority that thinks farming is what you mentioned, base design, army comp, etc, why hate?

You have your own opinion, fine. I have my opinion, fine. We all have our own opinion on what farming means. Just because a lot of people agree on the same thing doesn't mean you have to bash on them.

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I wouldn't call it hate, it's bug bear at worst, and it's not everyone, but it's something that seems to be getting worse hence why I feel it necessary to bring it up. Yesterday I read a thread where a guy asked would it be a mistake to upgrade, a ton of answers ensued mostly saying do the same thing, and the advise in his situation was pretty rubbish, would have been fine in someone else situation but not in his. The majority basically added their 2 cents without actually giving it the required thought.

My point is that we need to be careful about over simplifying things. I am not trying to point figures merely hoping people will read this and self reflect a bit about things.

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Originally Posted by Darkpye

I wouldn't call it hate, it's bug bear at worst, and it's not everyone, but it's something that seems to be getting worse hence why I feel it necessary to bring it up. Yesterday I read a thread where a guy asked would it be a mistake to upgrade, a ton of answers ensued mostly saying do the same thing, and the advise in his situation was pretty rubbish, would have been fine in someone else situation but not in his. The majority basically added their 2 cents without actually giving it the required thought.

My point is that we need to be careful about over simplifying things. I am not trying to point figures merely hoping people will read this and self reflect a bit about things.

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What do you mean by over simplifying things? I don't see anything wrong with the community having an agreement on what the true definition of farming is, if that's what you mean.

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Originally Posted by AngrehBard

What do you mean by over simplifying things? I don't see anything wrong with the community having an agreement on what the true definition of farming is, if that's what you mean.

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Over simplifying things is saying if your Townhall is outside you are a farmer, if it's inside you are not. Not everyone says this but a fair number of people do.

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Originally Posted by Darkpye

Over simplifying things is saying if your Townhall is outside you are a farmer, if it's inside you are not. Not everyone says this but a fair number of people do.

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With that I agree with you. I've seen some people trophy hunting with their town hall outside, for shields.

I fail to understand purpose of such threads ? what you get by defining whatever... is there some prize for finding out correct definition ???

what ever you may define is gonna change nothing ! are the players gonna get together & say "ok this is the established definition so lets all do accordingly" ???

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Originally Posted by Czar

I fail to understand purpose of such threads ? what you get by defining whatever... is there some prize for finding out correct definition ???

what ever you may define is gonna change nothing ! are the players gonna get together & say "ok this is the established definition so lets all do accordingly" ???

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Perhaps my title is misleading, it's not about setting a definition rather about removing one...

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Originally Posted by Darkpye

Perhaps my title is misleading, it's not about setting a definition rather about removing one...

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whether we sit here & remove or assert or define something, will even one player change anything in their game ?

sorry dont mean to be rude but it really does not matter what we call it...

My issue is not with what we call it or don't call it, it's an issue with the assumption that are attributed by calling it something and defining as such, I am not trying to define what a farmer is, certain people have defined what a farmer is and logical augment and debate about strategies and ideas have these basic principals intertwined into them.

Because the founding principal is wrong the logical conclusions are too incorrect. It's about preserving the quality of information and trust new users place in the existing users.

I am not suggesting that things have to be formal and we need to agree on a definition, you are welcome to define your play style whichever way you wish, however when you come across a base that is set or laid out in certain way does not in outline their entire play style. You can't just look at a base and by it's layout say that players play style is certain way. You also can't assume to know everything that comes with it.

To acquire resources there are 3 ways in order to gather them, you can collect them, you can steal them and you can buy them. The layout of your base doesn't determine how you got them it determines how you hold onto them how you spend them and the value you place upon them.

When giving somebody advice the idea that you could divine their entire play style merely by taking a look at their base is preposterous. You need more information than that, reminding people that there is more to a strategy than simply saying you are a farmer and as such you should do these pre-prescribed formulaic ideas is not actually all that useful.

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Originally Posted by Junliang

Well, its something that many people have tried, and works for them.
Solution to premature TH ? Lower trophy, farm for resource, ignore trophy gain, prioritise on resource gain.
Solution to expensive upgrade ? Do not want to gem them ? Farm for resource.
Best solution to protecting resource ? optimise walls and defense to protect storage. Town hall contains 1,000 gold/silver, should we protect it ? ...

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The distinction is, is it good advice in general or is it the right advice for the situation, not there is no arguing that some bases are just bad. That's not really the point. Certain assumptions are more valid than others, but as I said previously over simplifying a situation is bad.
I have been trying to demonstrate using the simple assertion that if a TH is outside the player is a farmer. This is a case of it over simplifying the situation. TH outside is a tactic, if there are only 2 types of players namely farmers and trophy hunters then yeah we could assert that TH outside is Farmer not trophy hunter, but those are not the only 2 types of players. TH outside is a legitimate way of protecting your resources and it is effective. But it says nothing about how much gold they make per hour/day/week.

Please don't get me wrong I am not saying people shouldn't share knowledge and strategy, plenty of good advice is given and it's very helpful, just something I have observed is that core knowledge is getting out shouted but simplistic inaccurate assertions on a more and more regular basis.

There are examples of this type of thing is many threads on many topics the town hall placement equals farmer is just one of them.

And as I said in my OP this is not a critique on whether a certain strategy is good or not is an observation that as a community in general a one size fits all mentality is getting louder. There are a lot of smart people here with a lot of good information, isn't it something worth protecting?

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Originally Posted by Darkpye

I have been trying to demonstrate using the simple assertion that if a TH is outside the player is a farmer. This is a case of it over simplifying the situation. TH outside is a tactic, if there are only 2 types of players namely farmers and trophy hunters then yeah we could assert that TH outside is Farmer not trophy hunter, but those are not the only 2 types of players. TH outside is a legitimate way of protecting your resources and it is effective. But it says nothing about how much gold they make per hour/day/week.

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The thing is, there are only two kinds of players who care about their base. There isn't anything else to protect in a raid except resources and trophies. Farmers protect resources and don't care about trophies (other than being in the right range, but that isn't done by their defence). Trophy hunters protect both. The top 50 players who have everything maxed and leave their resources outside may count as a third type, but they don't come on here and ask for advice. So, you are either designing your base like a farmer, or like a trophy hunter.


Anyway, the generally agreed upon meaning of "farming" on these forums is prioritizing resources over trophies. Those tactics you described in the OP are generally used by farmers because they are effective. Sure, you could put your th inside while farming, but that takes up prime real estate, makes you lose cheap shields, and doesn't protect your resources any better. So why would anyone on these forums advise that you do it?

A farmer (also called an agriculturer) is a person engaged in agriculture, raising living organisms for food or raw materials.

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Originally Posted by Darkpye

And as I said in my OP this is not a critique on whether a certain strategy is good or not is an observation that as a community in general a one size fits all mentality is getting louder. There are a lot of smart people here with a lot of good information, isn't it something worth protecting?

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Hm, I understand where you are coming from, its like a general structured education system to 1 size fits all.
Care to share what sort of valuable info that was being overlook/overthrown with this "Either farmer or trophy hunter Mentality" ?

E: Forgot to point out the existence of "Hybrid farmer/trophy hunter"

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Originally Posted by Junliang

Hm, I understand where you are coming from, its like a general structured education system to 1 size fits all.
Care to share what sort of valuable info that was being overlook/overthrown with this "Either farmer or trophy hunter Mentality" ?

E: Forgot to point out the existence of "Hybrid farmer/trophy hunter"

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The most important factor to take into account when formulating a strategy is the amount of time you have personally to put into the game, especially since the most valuable resource in the game is time.

What are people trying to get out of the game, yes, in most cases we can assume a player wants a stronger base, there may be a case here or two where this does not happen but that's getting side tracked, but they may have other secondary goals, perhaps they want a certain trophy level, maybe they are competing with their RL friends on some level, maybe they are chasing achievements etc... the question what should I do to make my base better is not simply answered without know what are you trying to do in this case.

The Farmer or Trophy hunter in of itself is fine, in that if all that means is do you prioritize trophies or resources, it's is more when you start to make further assumptions based on the primary declaration, i.e.
I am a farmer but I only make 500k gold a day, what is the best way for me to advance? Bog standard answer is put your town hall outside and build your defences to max etc... now I know that's a bit obvious but there is little thought by your average poster about where the sliding scale moves and how this should be adjusted.

There are certain priority items in ones base that change depending on how often you play, what type of army you build can greatly vary based on how often you attack. If for example you have the occasional 30 minutes to play here and there, then perhaps a good farming army you could include a dragon or two, because the time to build is not going to matter because you are only going to be able used that army in 2 or three hours time.

Ultimately I don't particularly care whether we call it Farmer/trophy hunter/hybrid farmer, it's it sub-sequential assertions that follow, I am a farmer therefore all these rules apply, no, I am a farmer but these are my limitations and as a result slightly different rules apply. does that not make sense?

Everyone play clash of clan farmed resources to upgrade their buildings. Everyone farmed and been farmed by others. However someone calling th outside a farming base is quite stupid. Because even those with th inside still farms.

The entirety of this game is farming by design. You either farm trophies, farm resources, or farm both at the same time.

*sigh* I think no one really gets what the OP is trying to say.

The problem here is that everyone has put on their farmer blinkers and are all brainwashed as to what a farmer MUST do. And yes I have been playing these types of games for almost 30 yrs( no-one needs to ask my real age:D) and I can assure you that farming has always existed and is not some wonderful new idea created by the brilliant minds who play COC. I have always been a farmer/grinder or completionist(what it gets called changes from game to game)

Farming means different things to everyone and the OP is just suggesting that giving advice with the assumption that another player plays exactly the same style, amount etc as yourself just because they are a "farmer" is a little misleading to new posters.

Here is an example. I could post a screenshot of a really good raid and I can almost guarantee one of the first 3 responses would consist of "dude, not really a farming army. You used dragons." Here's the thing I have a real life and a real job that involves working 12 hrs, so I have LOTS of time between raids so yes I often use dragons(I also like to keep them on hand as donations) I don't think that because I use dragons I am NOT a farmer but I have seen that response so often I know it would occur.

The OP is just asking people to THINK about their responses rather than spout off a preset answer when asked "what should I do next?"

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Originally Posted by Stefm211

*sigh* I think no one really gets what the OP is trying to say.

The problem here is that everyone has put on their farmer blinkers and are all brainwashed as to what a farmer MUST do. And yes I have been playing these types of games for almost 30 yrs( no-one needs to ask my real age:D) and I can assure you that farming has always existed and is not some wonderful new idea created by the brilliant minds who play COC. I have always been a farmer/grinder or completionist(what it gets called changes from game to game)

Farming means different things to everyone and the OP is just suggesting that giving advice with the assumption that another player plays exactly the same style, amount etc as yourself just because they are a "farmer" is a little misleading to new posters.

Here is an example. I could post a screenshot of a really good raid and I can almost guarantee one of the first 3 responses would consist of "dude, not really a farming army. You used dragons." Here's the thing I have a real life and a real job that involves working 12 hrs, so I have LOTS of time between raids so yes I often use dragons(I also like to keep them on hand as donations) I don't think that because I use dragons I am NOT a farmer but I have seen that response so often I know it would occur.

The OP is just asking people to THINK about their responses rather than spout off a preset answer when asked "what should I do next?"

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If that is his point, then your better off teaching salmon to swim with the current in order to spawn my friend.

Don't worry about it - farming or not.

Only people who frequent this forum would have heard about this term.

Majority of the CoC players have no idea what "farming" is.

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Originally Posted by yesup

Don't worry about it - farming or not.

Only people who frequent this forum would have heard about this term.

Majority of the CoC players have no idea what "farming" is.

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:rolleyes: Really? So you actually think COC is the only game to have EVER used the term farming to describe gathering resources and therefore ONLY people who have read these forums would know the term? Give your head a shake. This response is an example of what the OP is talking about.

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Originally Posted by Stefm211

:rolleyes: Really? So you actually think COC is the only game to have EVER used the term farming to describe gathering resources and therefore ONLY people who have read these forums would know the term? Give your head a shake. This response is an example of what the OP is talking about.

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But even for other games, this term is mainly used in discussion groups and forums.
It is neither an official term nor a widely known term.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=farm

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Originally Posted by yesup

But even for other games, this term is mainly used in discussion groups and forums.
It is neither an official term nor a widely known term.

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It is quite well known and applies to pretty much all resource based games where there is a significant advantage to boosting yourself by attacking resource rich targets at the expense of progression.

Anytime you are playing an RPG and you spend some extra time in a dungeon collecting gold or experience vs. advancing the story line, you are farming.

Gold, resource, or gear farming is extremely popular in WoW and it is labeled as such.

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Originally Posted by Darkpye

The most important factor to take into account when formulating a strategy is the amount of time you have personally to put into the game, especially since the most valuable resource in the game is time.

What are people trying to get out of the game, yes, in most cases we can assume a player wants a stronger base, there may be a case here or two where this does not happen but that's getting side tracked, but they may have other secondary goals, perhaps they want a certain trophy level, maybe they are competing with their RL friends on some level, maybe they are chasing achievements etc... the question what should I do to make my base better is not simply answered without know what are you trying to do in this case.

The Farmer or Trophy hunter in of itself is fine, in that if all that means is do you prioritize trophies or resources, it's is more when you start to make further assumptions based on the primary declaration, i.e.
I am a farmer but I only make 500k gold a day, what is the best way for me to advance? Bog standard answer is put your town hall outside and build your defences to max etc... now I know that's a bit obvious but there is little thought by your average poster about where the sliding scale moves and how this should be adjusted.

Ultimately I don't particularly care whether we call it Farmer/trophy hunter/hybrid farmer, it's it sub-sequential assertions that follow, I am a farmer therefore all these rules apply, no, I am a farmer but these are my limitations and as a result slightly different rules apply. does that not make sense?

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I still do not understand these secondary goals. You either want to protect resources, protect resources and trophies, or (really only if you are a very rich person) only protect trophies. You cannot lose anything but resources or trophies in a raid. So, when you are giving base design advice, there are really only two goals in mind. There aren't any real limitations or personal variables when you ask for base design. It doesn't matter how often you play, and you do not choose who attacks you, or with what army.


And some lines are parroted because they are true. If you want to protect resources, and do not care about trophies, you simply should leave your town hall outside your walls. There are reasons to leave it out (free shields, space for more important things), but none at all (yes, I acknowledge 1k of each) to leave in in.

Many farmers have to raise trophies, for example to get a BK at th7 many DE farm by lightning striking, and using troop combos to grab resources and run as far away as possible. The word farming is definitely wide known, and I kind of found out about farming myself by realizing when a friend told me when I was new to COC that goblins are useless and prioritize resources (He was saying to me why he goes mass barb in his attacks and I told him why not use goblins) and that was the winning idea. Although after seeing these forums as is the norm any game I play for a while (I in fact see the forums before playing some games) I saw plenty of better troop layouts etc.

I agree with everything in the original post. Thanks, man, people keep annoying me and saying I need to put my town hall outside while farming... I don't wanna!

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Originally Posted by Oafgnip

I agree with everything in the original post. Thanks, man, people keep annoying me and saying I need to put my town hall outside while farming... I don't wanna!

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They do that because it is the most efficient strategy. Doctors will tell you to stop smoking, lose weight, and exercise more. You may or may not choose to do those things. That doesn't mean they should stop saying it.

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Originally Posted by dahimi

They do that because it is the most efficient strategy. Doctors will tell you to stop smoking, lose weight, and exercise more. You may or may not choose to do those things. That doesn't mean they should stop saying it.

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I'm not saying they should stop saying it, I'm saying it is annoying. :)

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Originally Posted by Oafgnip

I'm not saying they should stop saying it, I'm saying it is annoying. :)

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The post says:

Basically the thing that is bugging me is that as time passes we seem to have more and more advocates of the 1 size fits all mentality, and this reduces the value of discussions, someone will ask for some advise and the answer that person gets en mass is the same bog standard answer and little attention is given to the surrounding circumstance which the OP has often painstakingly laid out.

However, in this case regardless of the surrounding circumstance, TH outside is better. From all possible objective view points it is better. This is what people should do and the advice that should be given when people come to the forum for advice. When people say they don't want to, the best possible advice is to convince them otherwise.

Now your subjective view point might be that this is less fun for whatever reason. That's fine too, but people dispensing the best possible advice shouldn't annoy you. Simply disregard it or tell them, "I know that way is objectively better but I have more fun playing this way."

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Originally Posted by dahimi

The post says:

Basically the thing that is bugging me is that as time passes we seem to have more and more advocates of the 1 size fits all mentality, and this reduces the value of discussions, someone will ask for some advise and the answer that person gets en mass is the same bog standard answer and little attention is given to the surrounding circumstance which the OP has often painstakingly laid out.

However, in this case regardless of the surrounding circumstance, TH outside is better. From all possible objective view points it is better. This is what people should do and the advice that should be given when people come to the forum for advice. When people say they don't want to, the best possible advice is to convince them otherwise.

Now your subjective view point might be that this is less fun for whatever reason. That's fine too, but people dispensing the best possible advice shouldn't annoy you. Simply disregard it or tell them, "I know that way is objectively better but I have more fun playing this way."

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Thanks for your reply, and I know that way is objectively better but I have more fun playing this way. ;)

I think the OP has an interesting and well written point with clear and considered responses.

I understand that the 'standard model' for what is to be considered farming is an opinion held by many and is most likely perfect for their playing style. I do however, completely agree with the OP in terms of stock responses that don't address surrounding issues that the person asking may have.

Take the quote below, I mean no disrespect to dahimi but having the TH outside just simply isn't best for every 'farmer' (but I'm sure having the TH outside is right for many people of course)

I, for example, have a mature TH 8 with most defences and troops maxed but plenty of walls to upgrade. I certainly consider myself farming because I choose my trophy range to maximise raiding profit but I keep my TH inside. I do this because of my playing routine. I play pretty much everyday but only after work so my base will usually be free for 20 hours of the day. My range at the moment is about 1100 to 1400 so what I do is destroy villages for trophies and resources until I get up to 1400. From then on I try to find mainly villages with full collectors, which most of the time means a loss of trophies but many raids and lots of resources in a short period of time. By the end of the day I will be back down to the lower end of my current trophy range.

Leaving my TH inside means I usually log on the next day to find I've gone up by about 100 trophies meaning considerably less time to increase my trophies. I usually have spent my resources (although I have a typical TH 8 elixir abundance at the moment) so I lose next to nothing. I still do this when I have lots to protect - 6 spread storages thanks to plenty of walls at TH 8 and well developed defences means that I can't remember a time when all 3 of one resource has been taken down at that trophy range. Even so, anything that is taken from my storages usually means a shield and is fully replenished when I log on to collect my full collectors.

This works for me and I have of course spent much time with my TH outside but I personally find i can collect much more this way because it reduces the amount of time for training full camps to flatten a base or time looking for a couple of cheap trophies which is important for my playing routine. I collected the elixir for upgrading my pekkas to lvl 3 in this way and it took 3 sessions/days which I'm sure is slow compared to many but is quick for me.

On a separate note, i think we can all consider ourselves farmers on some level as we all need resources (except for those few with a maxed base) but some of us choose a more obviously lower trophy range than we are capable of getting to. But where the line of 'farmer' comes in is of course subjective so there will always be difference of opinion.


General E. Farmingwiththinside

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Originally Posted by dahimi

The post says:

Basically the thing that is bugging me is that as time passes we seem to have more and more advocates of the 1 size fits all mentality, and this reduces the value of discussions, someone will ask for some advise and the answer that person gets en mass is the same bog standard answer and little attention is given to the surrounding circumstance which the OP has often painstakingly laid out.

However, in this case regardless of the surrounding circumstance, TH outside is better. From all possible objective view points it is better. This is what people should do and the advice that should be given when people come to the forum for advice. When people say they don't want to, the best possible advice is to convince them otherwise.

Now your subjective view point might be that this is less fun for whatever reason. That's fine too, but people dispensing the best possible advice shouldn't annoy you. Simply disregard it or tell them, "I know that way is objectively better but I have more fun playing this way."

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Originally Posted by TheGeneral

I, for example, have a mature TH 8 with most defences and troops maxed but plenty of walls to upgrade. I certainly consider myself farming because I choose my trophy range to maximise raiding profit but I keep my TH inside. I do this because of my playing routine. I play pretty much everyday but only after work so my base will usually be free for 20 hours of the day. My range at the moment is about 1100 to 1400 so what I do is destroy villages for trophies and resources until I get up to 1400. From then on I try to find mainly villages with full collectors, which most of the time means a loss of trophies but many raids and lots of resources in a short period of time. By the end of the day I will be back down to the lower end of my current trophy range.

Leaving my TH inside means I usually log on the next day to find I've gone up by about 100 trophies meaning considerably less time to increase my trophies. I usually have spent my resources (although I have a typical TH 8 elixir abundance at the moment) so I lose next to nothing. I still do this when I have lots to protect - 6 spread storages thanks to plenty of walls at TH 8 and well developed defences means that I can't remember a time when all 3 of one resource has been taken down at that trophy range. Even so, anything that is taken from my storages usually means a shield and is fully replenished when I log on to collect my full collectors.

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Are you certain? I would think having to climb a few hundred trophies to get to an ideal range would be far more time consuming than simply maintaining the ideal range through a mixture of collector raids and full base destruction.

If you spend only 4 hours a day playing, a good chunk of that time is going to be regaining trophies. Doesn't that represent wasted opportunity?

It would also seem like you're losing most of the gold from your collectors doing this.

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Originally Posted by Darkpye

A trophy hunter is someone who farms trophies and a farmer is someone who farms resources.

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I hold the opinion that the proposition expressed by the sentence, "A trophy hunter is someone who farms trophies" is false. A trophy is not the kind of thing that is farmed. I believe it is a misuse of the term "farm" to say that is what can be done of trophies. We don't farm trophies; we win trophies. We do not (ordinarily) win resources; we farm them.

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Originally Posted by dahimi

Are you certain? I would think having to climb a few hundred trophies to get to an ideal range would be far more time consuming than simply maintaining the ideal range through a mixture of collector raids and full base destruction.

If you spend only 4 hours a day playing, a good chunk of that time is going to be regaining trophies. Doesn't that represent wasted opportunity?

It would also seem like you're losing most of the gold from your collectors doing this.

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I agree that using a mixture of raids and full base destruction is a good technique and one which I do use sometimes but say the amount net amount of trophies won and lost needs to be 0 to maintain a trophy count, wether I do that at the start of my session or mixed through doesn't matter - it's the extra trophies gained in defence that saves the time.

Also, I find that I usually log on to find the collectors pretty full. I go to bed when America comes back from work so I'll get attacked plenty of times and after a few, someone will get a star because they destroy the buildings outside the walls and most of the first layer giving me a shield, but a large net gain of trophies and relatively insignificant loss of resources.

I apreciate your polite approach to replying to me quoting you, these forums can be a little intimidating to new forum members!


General E. Stillgotthinside