Opt Out Option During War

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Originally Posted by Jietoh

And now the trolls will appear and dismiss our well thought out legitimate concerns and continue to claim there is no down side.

1) most importantly this will fundamentally change the nature of clan wars forever from something in which the whole clan must participate in order to achieve optimum success into something where only the elite top 10 must participate in order to achieve optimum success.

2) this will completely and forever remove the largest size clan wars. 50 v 50 will be gone within a month and anything over 25v25 will eventually and gradually be reduced over time until the only viable clan wars will be 20v20 and less.

If you can't see this as the inevitable, most probable outcome you are either too naive to understand or just shortsighted.

This is akin to the elixir for walls debacle. go back and read the threads announcing the change and see the 70% approval responses, the 30% of us who accurately predicted that it would ruin the economy, the 50% of the 70% who told the 30% that they were over reacting and should 'shut up until you see the effect'.

Have we gotten a retraction of the elixir for walls yet? despite the overwhelming evidence that it has negatively effected the economy, has increased the frustration of nexting, the thousands and thousands of loot threads; the elixir for walls change remains.

If this opt out feature is ever implemented, it WILL change (ruin) clan wars and it WILL be irreversible.

I, for one, do NOT want that to happen.

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No I won't dismiss, nor would I question your judgment how you chose to do things. The way you operate your clan is the way that makes you guys happy and since the object of the game is to have fun the fact its what you consider the fun way makes it the right way.

But there are also clans out there that want to operate differently. they have their concept of the fun way to play the game. It may be different from yours, but it is not wrong. The fact that they are having fun and taking their enjoyment from the game makes their way the right way too.

Although I don't dismiss your ideas, I do not agree with them either and in fact do view them as red herrings since if these are true problems then they both would exist today (and maybe they do). Although most people don't like the kick/re-invite and the majority wants a better way, clans feeling the need (we do for instance) are still gritting their teeth and doing it and living with whatever pain comes of it, however unhappily.

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Originally Posted by Jietoh

1) most importantly this will fundamentally change the nature of clan wars forever from something in which the whole clan must participate in order to achieve optimum success into something where only the elite top 10 must participate in order to achieve optimum success.

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In any scenario where a clan is only into winning by using their elite top 10 they can absorb the nuisance (understood some don't see it that way, but also understand most do) of putting the non fighters to a farm/feeder clan or just outside and proceed with it. So opt in/out will not change that those that want to do this will do it. But it will be less then you think because it gives no real advantage in the war. They will still get matched up to a like group of elite players or a clan that has a similar level of strength. If they put out all their high players for a low level matchup they would get the same result. (low level guys fighting other low level guys)

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Originally Posted by Jietoh

2) this will completely and forever remove the largest size clan wars. 50 v 50 will be gone within a month and anything over 25v25 will eventually and gradually be reduced over time until the only viable clan wars will be 20v20 and less.

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If this was really going to be a problem the kick/re-invite method would already be causing it. And frankly there are plenty out there that disdain small wars, their idea of the best fun is a full on 50 vs 50. Many of them think that anything less is not as thrilling.

The biggest impact is that the clans that want to just be a relaxed group of friends would still be able to participate in clan wars. Those that are not comfortable with kick/re-invite and currently see that as a show stopper would be able to participate more regularly and the game would benefit from a boost in war participation.

I can't agree those that want war to be some sort of calling where any clan or individual is all in or should just leave. I think the game should be to each person playing whatever it needs to be for them to most enjoy the experience. If those that want to have more friends and family existence in their clans, (or even those that are really into war but want to allow a little bit of wiggle room for when school or work or upgrades or vacations or whatever) are wrong and bad for the game is it being suggested they should just leave COC? if we assume that they need to do it their way in order to be happy playing the game at all, what should they do if it is not a full on 'everybody always participate' war existence?

I think you have a point. And that could easily explain why the polls are so lopsided. They can be using their alternate accounts to vote.

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Originally Posted by Stiehl9s

my only issue with this idea is lets say you have 20 members in your clan with set war times (once or twice a week, doesn't matter) 5 minutes before the set time one player decides that he doesn't want to war and opts out. Now you have just 19 members ready for war when you hit the Search which will now look for a 15 member match up. So 4 players have to sit out because 1 player doesn't want in? Who loses out more? With no option those 4 players get to war and you only lose out on one player making their attacks or the four players that have to sit and watch until next war at which point the same thing could happen?


Communication and coordination go a lot further then a opt in/opt out option

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You are dead on about communication and that remains true with or without the button. Because regardless of whether there is a button the player in question has decided they don't want to be in. Whether they leave or opt out the result is the same. The clan is now down a guy and needs to discuss their options. (There are several in such case)

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Originally Posted by Kruzkal

Oh wow! A fresh new user with a fresh new idea! Fantastic!

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Yeah, it happens a lot. Its just because the need s so painfully obvious to so many that this happens that someone is always speaking up.

Not sure if he is a newbie just learning war and this was the first thing that jumped out at him or if he is someone that has been playing for a while and decided to speak up because they are sick of waiting. We get both kinds here.

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

^ My thoughts exactly. These people don't likely have a clue what it is like to be the leader of a large and successful war clan, so they just don't understand. My clan doesn't use 95-100 attacks per war because we're lucky, it's because members know their role and execute and that takes time to develop. Already, we spend upwards of an hour trying to find a match. These guys are just selfish. They want things to make life easier for them when they can already do everything they want to do using the current system. Not a thought in the world for the rest of us who have learned to exist and thrive under the current rules. They want to "level the playing field" when it is already perfectly level.

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.....and we are onto the derogatory comments.

I would like this option, so some clan members can opt out without dropping trophies. The problem would be we would probably never be able to find a decent 50 v 50 or 45 v 45 war. It is hard enough as it is.

We started a clan consisting of friends & originally participated in wars of 10. Since then, we accepted more friends, significant others and children of our members. We have now grown to 19 members currently & doing wars of 15, of which only about 10 who actually partake in the daily wars.

We are now at a dilemma, since we are finding it increasingly hard to be competitive - it's like we are competing in 10 vs 15 wars. Like anything we have our "hardcore" guys and our "pedestrian" players - just like the Guilds for MMOPRGs, we had our raids & members who were friends, but chose to quest & just chat occasionally. The way the wars are setup, we'd have to kick / alienate the members that don't partake in wars, even though they enjoy the game for the other aspects like whether it be for base development, the occasional attacker, or just hanging out & chatting with everyone ? There are also instances where people go on vacation, busy with work or take short sabbaticals from the game. We want people to enjoy their vacations without having to worry about being kicked for a real life events.

I'd like to request an option for clan war participation be looked into & added. Ideally, it would be both player-sides & Leader-controlled. Players can "opt in" for the wars, if they want to participate. The Leader would have the ultimate option to include / submit the players who will participate in the wars. This way trophies won't matter (don't have to be the top say 10 or 15 members), Leaders can include certain war bases (even if the player takes a sabbatical or doesn't plan to attack) to meet the current "incremental of five" war setup - and we could keep friends in the clan without kicking girlfriends / wives and kids, not hurt their feelings and / or turn them off to the game because of the former reasons. In order to have our wars of 10 members, we would have to kick 5 members (down to 14) which would include a significant other (who would stay in a clan that doesn't support a real life significant other), a work colleague (how do I face him at work ?), a nephew (we love our family, don't we ?), a seven year old child (it's like being told they aren't old enough to do anything) & a person who is serving our country in the armed forces (sorry, you got kicked since you're dedicating your time to boot camp & protecting our country...) - you get the gist. I think it would benefit the CoC community & it's members.

Trav ~

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Originally Posted by LegionOK

I think you have a point. And that could easily explain why the polls are so lopsided. They can be using their alternate accounts to vote.

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Yeah the last time a poll went the was 501 for and 84 against and 62 that said they didn't care either way. That's a lot of extra accounts.

If we count the people that didn't care (assume that even though they don't care if others use such a feature they would not) as against that still leaves a 77% for and 23% against. If there are a few out there that use second accounts to state their ideas more than once its not going to be enough to change that its an obvious overwhelming majority that want the feature. In fact, if guys are doing that it is probably on both sides of the issue so they cancel each other out.

And I guess then a whole ton of people must have gone to the extra trouble to create extra accounts to say they didn't care. That would be an ironic humor if a person driven by apathy started putting in extra effort.

Would you be interested in a poll that actually said otherwise? That showed that there is in fact a much larger group out there that sees things the way you state them?

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Originally Posted by Mendicus

I would like this option, so some clan members can opt out without dropping trophies. The problem would be we would probably never be able to find a decent 50 v 50 or 45 v 45 war. It is hard enough as it is.

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Its getting harder to find opponents anyhow. Even at lower ranges. We gave up last night after 2 hours since it was getting so late. We are going to try again tonight but we have been running into more and more overly long searches. The lack of opponents would suggest that fewer clans are doing war. There are fewer clans that either have everybody wanting to go at the same time or are willing to kick/re-invite. So adding the feature would alleviate this problem to some degree. (only some, it would not be a total fix, just a help)

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

In any scenario where a clan is only into winning by using their elite top 10 they can absorb the nuisance (understood some don't see it that way, but also understand most do) of putting the non fighters to a farm/feeder clan or just outside and proceed with it. So opt in/out will not change that those that want to do this will do it. But it will be less then you think because it gives no real advantage in the war. They will still get matched up to a like group of elite players or a clan that has a similar level of strength. If they put out all their high players for a low level matchup they would get the same result. (low level guys fighting other low level guys)

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I'm not talking about elite base or troop strength, I'm talking about skill.

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

If this was really going to be a problem the kick/re-invite method would already be causing it. And frankly there are plenty out there that disdain small wars, their idea of the best fun is a full on 50 vs 50. Many of them think that anything less is not as thrilling.

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You can't have it both ways, you can't say that kick invite is so annoying, difficult, disruptive, etc that this feature is absolutely required by a clan that wants to be a relaxed group of friends and then turn around and say that it's so easy that if anything negative would result from the feature that those negative things would already be happening.

The reason that those negative things aren't happening now is that kick/invite is ONLY used for extreme cases where someone needs to sit for real life reason because it is annoying and disruptive at times. If the opt out feature were implemented it imply that SC condones the practice of using only your most skilled players for a war and so that practice would become the norm. THAT'S why my arguments are not 'red herrings'.

Even the chance that this feature would cause this shift in perspective by the player base is enough for me to be against the idea. I don't like what I see in my crystal ball. It's not worth it.

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Originally Posted by rwelshjr

The biggest impact is that the clans that want to just be a relaxed group of friends would still be able to participate in clan wars. Those that are not comfortable with kick/re-invite and currently see that as a show stopper would be able to participate more regularly and the game would benefit from a boost in war participation.

I can't agree those that want war to be some sort of calling where any clan o individual is all in should just leave. I think the game should be to each person playing whatever it needs to be for them to most enjoy the experience. If those that want to have more friends and family existence in their clans, (or even those that are really into war but want to allow a little bit of wiggle room for when school or work or upgrades or vacations or whatever) are wrong and bad for the game is it being suggested they should just leave COC? if we assume that they need to do it their way in order to be happy playing the game what should they do if it is not a full on everybody always participate war existence?

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I don't agree that it will boost participation. I predict that it will cause most average clans to roster only their most skilled players, this will snowball to where average clans will get stomped on a regular basis so they stop participating or get with the program and only roster their most skilled players. That will snowball to where there are so few clans that are participating at 40v40 and up that those who want to participate in those wars will no longer be able to find matches and be required to reduce their participation so they can find regular matchups. It will be a snowball effect where we're left with 20v20 and lower and only the most skilled players are involved... If you can't regularly 3 star a base of your level, then there's no place for you in clan wars.

I don't have an elite clan like legion. We have plenty of players who are just not that good at the game, who make attacks that make me want to pull my hair out at times. I have a close friend who I got into this game who recently quit because he's now dedicating his time to something different. The opt out feature would probably be enough for him to stay for the odd times he may want to spend a few hours in a clan war. I see your desire for the feature. I'm still against it because I foresee incredible problems with it, and once it's in, there's no taking it out.